BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

From 73002.1213 at compuserve.com Sat Jun 22 09:53:20 1996
From: 73002.1213 at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Fred Hottenroth stoves; charcoal
Message-ID: <960622135449_73002.1213_FHM30-5@CompuServe.COM>

Dear Ron and Stovers all: Long
Beach, CA

I am on a trip to take our 10 year old grandson to Hawaii for two weeks.
However, "if faut combiner le plaisir avec l'ouvre", so I hope to see Kirk Smith
(stove emissions) and visit the PICTR plant.

I visited Fred Hottenroth (with my son Phil) on Thursday and demonstrated a 7.5
cm stable "blue flame" stove. As background, Fred is the "grand old man" of
woodstoves. He and his son, (Fred III) operate the Zmart Stove Co. in Los
Alimitor, CA, about 10 miles from Long Beach. He hires people from Indians
(East, West and NA's) to make his Sierra and other camping and developing
country stoves. They are made from light gauge sheet metal, aluminum and formed
stainless steel.

The Sierra stove uses a small battery and fan to produce a small, but very
effective draft which makes intense heat for cooking from sticks, twigs, junk
biomass. It is amazing what the small draft does. The stove is contained in a
small pot and skillet about 150 mmD X 100 mm tall. It costs about $20 and is
sold primarily to campers in the U.S.

Fred III is now in Nepal setting up the manufacture of a slightly larger version
of this stove.

Fred II lives in Sear Beach in a retirement community. He is a soft spoken
gentleman in excellent heallth. He is 93. I hope I will be as active and
useful when I am 93.

*****

Concerning Ron's comments on charcoal: I was reporting Ralph's comments when I
mentioned the small output. I certainly agree with Ron that cooking for large
families and groups will generate more charcoal, and I am anxious to try larger
"blue flame" stoves. Call me someday. I have a 10 inch riser sleeve ready.

Personally, my garage is filling up with the charcoal from my experimental runs,
so I need to start selling it. Any buyers?

Seriously, I am not a fan of charcoal cooking. My wife has an electric stove
(and I have a blue flame wood-gas stove) so why should I smoke up the
neighborhood with charcoal and charcoal-lighter? (I realize that this is a very
unpopular view every time I go to the supermarket or hardware store).

Charcoal fires are VERY difficult to light. By the time the hamburgers are
cooked I have doubled my appetite! (or had too many beers). Then after 20
minutes of cooking the charcoal burns for another 3-6 hours.

In the blue-flame stove the charcoal is VERY difficult to extinguish without
water. (Dumping it into a metal can with a tight lid works best). Also, as
soon as the volatiles stop burning the CO alarm tells me that I am making lots
of CO.

Am I missing something here? Is there a better way to use charcoal for cooking?
I'd appreciate comments on better, more efficient use of charcoal.

Regards to all from Hawaii, TOM REED

 

 

From larcon at csn.net Wed Jun 26 20:46:35 1996
From: larcon at csn.net (Ronal Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Nicaragua and stoves
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9606261847.A24620-0100000@teal.csn.net>

 

Stovers:
A few days ago, Rogerio (the author of the following letter)
wrote a general stove information request to the CREST "bioenergy" list.
I answered and put Rogerio on our list. This second letter from Rogerio
seems appropriate for the whole group and so I am answering it publicly (
I believe Rogerio will not mind) so the whole stoves group can enter into
this interesting dialog. My earlier response to Rogerio stated my
interest in charcoal-making stoves - but contained no details..

1A. Rogerio said: "We are a NGO that promotes the sustainable and
efficient use of wood as energy. PROLENA was created in 1993 in Honduras,
and our concerns involve stopping deforestation through reforestation for
fuelwood, increase efficiency of burners as household woodstove and small
industries ovens, like bricks, bakeries, lime producers, tobacco,
pottery, etc. Also, we are promoting the use of wood waste and
plantations for electricity generation, strategic policies to incentivate
modern use of fuelwood, and training of graduate students."
1B. Ron says:"I know of no other e-mail list that comes as
close to your needs as this one - but we are primarily a SMALL stove
group. I will send separate additional information on the operation of
this list. There has been considerable mention on this list of
industrial thermal applications of wood and policies. We also have
talked a good bit about a world-wide competition - which could be part of
your education interest. This is not the right list for electricity
generation (continue watching the CREST bioenergy list)."

2A. Rogerio says: "In Honduras we had started a lobbying campaign with
the government to adopt better control of the harvesting of fuelwood and
incentives for reforestation. Also we began a small pilot project in the
urban community of Tegucigalpa (the capital), helping the women to
construct new efficient stoves through a small fund. The concept is that
the women can borrow US$20 from the fund, and based in an increase in
efficiency with the new stove, they can reduce fuelwood consumption by
25%, and pay US$1 a week back to the fund. We would like to expand this
project."
2B. Ron says: "This $20 loan sounds like an exceptionally good
approach to encourage dissemination. However, it has been stated in
several stoves books (and maybe within this list) that many so-called
improved stoves do not and cannot demonstrate improved efficiency. IÕm
sure the whole group would like to hear the details of the two cooking
methods and the measured efficiencies (with details on the method for
measurement). What was the result of the pilot project? What use of
wood per family per meal (or day) are you assuming?"

3A. Rogerio said: "Our focus is promoting the health aspects of improved
stoves and facilitating the credit."
3B. Ron says: "Kirk Smith (formerly East-West center in Hawaii
and now at U. California - Berkeley) is a well recognized expert on this
topic (and from below - it appears you may know Kirk). I hope he will
soon be sharing with us some of the results of a world-wide study that he
mentioned several months ago. I urge your looking up some of his earlier
literature - which is indeed frightening as it relates to health impacts
from rural stoves. Those of us favoring a charcoal-making stove believe
this health issue is a major advantage of pyrolysis - as so-far measured
a little."

4A. Rogerio says: "We had also helped a US investor in promoting and
researching for 15 Mw wood waste to energy projects. In 1994 we organized
the First Fuelwood Congress of Honduras, and the second one is scheduled
for later this year."
4B. Ron says: "How can we learn more about these projects and
conferences?"

5A. Rogerio says: "Since last month, I moved to Nicaragua, after
spending the winter in Wash. DC, and with local friends we are organizing
the creation of PROLENA in Nicaragua. Here, urban consumers are paying
US$60/Metric Ton of unsustainable fuelwood, making it the most expensive
and dirty fuel for cooking. The sad part is that the consumers are
poorest and there isn't a program to help them."
5B. Ron says: " I will have to look at your wood cost more
closely - but guess that at a stove efficiency of 30-40%, this wood cost
will be cheaper than your cost for kerosene. I would also like to know
your cost of electricity; what keeps Nicaraguan urban customers from
using electricity for cooking? Several persons on this list have been
using the value of about 18 MJ/kg for wood. (Moderately dry basis).
We probably mostly agree that wood is often the dirtiest - but
most believe that it can be clean and sustainable. I believe most of us
on this list are motivated by a desire to help these poorest."

6A. Rogerio says: "Here in Nicaragua, there is a department of the state
university that is called TECNOLENA. They do research about woodstove
design for better efficiency, but lacks enough funds. I would like to
share your address with them."
6B. Ron says: "If you can send their e-mail address, I will add
them to this list and welcome their inputs and questions. You and they
are exactly the type persons we need on this list (there are too few
stove experts from developing countries now), so please send other names
as well. Please encourage TECHNOLENA to send such material as you have."

7A. Rogerio says: "Our concern with traditional woodstoves are the low
efficiency (10%) and the pollution, since it produces respiratory
infections, eye irritations and low birth weight. Dr. Erik Boy of INCAP
in Guatemala is doing detailed research about indoor contamination and
its health problems. The German AID agency and the European Community
Commission just published a very good recompilation of photographs,
design, testimony and cost of over 200 woodstoves models from
around the developing world, which is called "Estufas en Imagenes" in
Spanish. They do have an English version. Kirk Smith knows about it."
7B. Ron says: "Perhaps you or Kirk could give more details on
how to obtain this report - which I have not previously seen cited.
Perhaps Dr, Boy should join this group also. Does this compilation of
200 stoves show any low cost wood stove that makes charcoal?"

8A. Rogerio says: "We are interested in knowing more about the health
impacts of woodstoves, in order to motivate the government and the women
about the impacts of that. The idea is to develop projects that promotes
and facilitates credit for them to construct new efficient stoves. Also I
would like to know about any stove that is easy to construct, but
resistent, practical and not expensive.
Lets keep in touch. Thanks for your attention. Rogerio"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0412
E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

8B. Ron says: " I believe that there is agreement on this list
that the main motivator for improved stove design is the womens health
issue. However, I believe most also still agree that the deforestation
issue remains important. I am personally motivated also by the
tremendous waste (and contribution to global warming) in the rural making
of charcoal; I gather from a friend working in Nicaragua that there is a
lot of charcoal use there. I believe that a charcoal-making stove will
be found to be attractive in such cases - because stove users have a
potential new source of income. A gasifying stove also appears to have a
quite good turn-down ratio - making use easier and helping to improve
efficiency.Ó

Rogerio - Thank you for your very complete reply - and I also
look forward to staying in touch (but I leave for Ethiopia soon for maybe
7-8 weeks.) Ron Larson

 

 

From verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au Thu Jun 27 06:02:47 1996
From: verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Nicaragua and stoves
Message-ID: <9606271006.AA02639@janus.cqu.edu.au>

Dear Stovers,

Just read Ron's dialogue with Rogerio. Very good.

This note is to let you know I will be off the net for up to two weeks. Irma
and I are going North. Tomorrow to Longreach and from there to Cloncurry,
Mt.Isa, Katherine and Darwin. Her winter reigns with night temperatures down
to 5 C and day maxima in the middle twenties.
See you all later,

Piet Verhaart

 

 

From prasad at tn7.phys.tue.nl Thu Jun 27 08:02:27 1996
From: prasad at tn7.phys.tue.nl (prasad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Nicaragua and stoves
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9606261847.A24620-0100000@teal.csn.net>
Message-ID: <9606271157.AA03198@tn7.phys.tue.nl>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 2833 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://listserv.repp.org/pipermail/stoves/attachments/19960627/9682f0d8/attachment.cc
From agblevof at tcplink.nrel.gov Thu Jun 27 11:20:45 1996
From: agblevof at tcplink.nrel.gov (agblevof@tcplink.nrel.gov)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Nicaragua and stoves
Message-ID: <9605278358.AA835892676@tcplink.nrel.gov>

Prasad:

Please can you give more details about Usinger computer program for
evaluating the stove. This may be helpful for other stove lovers
trying to evaluate their stoves but are not aware of this program.
Title, availability, cost; etc.

Thanks, Foster Agblevor

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Nicaragua and stoves
Author: stoves@crest.org at SMTP
Date: 6/27/96 6:07 AM

To:Ron, Rogier and other stovers

From:Prasad

Date: 27 July 1996

At long last the stove group seems to have woken from a midsummer slumber.

The stove images book is good in the sense it is beautifully produced. But I
have my reservations about the possibility of using the book for the
purposes of building and disseminating stoves that are cheap, easy to use,
able to cook the food people want to eat, fuel efficient, and pollution
free. This requires much more work than is implicitly implied by the book.

If the stove group is interested in helping Rogier to build better stoves in
Nicaragua, Honduras etc. we should not start on the basis of starry eyed
do-gooders, but we should approach it with a clear professional approach.
The following is a short list of questions that need to be answered
by Rogier and then we need to formulate a "proposal" for action. If this
appears acceptable to Rogier we need to approach funders for carrying out
the work.

(i) What is being cooked?
(ii) How much is cooked?
(iii) How often do they cook in a day/
(iv) Are there differences among the different meals i a day? If so, what
are these?
(v) How long do they take to cook?
(vi) What is the fuel used?
(vii) Do they buy it? If so, how much do they pay? If not, where do they
collect it from, and how much time do they spend on fuel collection?
(viii) What type of stove they currently use? Is it simply three stones
collected arbitrarily from the surroundings?
(ix) What type of pans are used?
(x) What is the situation with respect to stove production? are there
metal workers, potters etc who making a living out of this work?
(xi) What is the situation with respect to small-scale industries in the
area? is it possible that such industries would be interested in
producing the stoves?
(xii) What is the marketing possibility of stoves?
(xiii) What is the financing mechanism for buying stoves?

etc. etc.

After compiling this list, a couple of things dawned by me. I thought in
this mailing list there was set of specifications for stoves. I am sorry I don't
have the time now to retrieve it and compare my list with that. Secondly,
there is a computer programme developed Jurgen Usinger which can be used in
a systematic way to collect data and provides suggestions of stove designs
for a particular case.

I a off to Geneva to attend a meeting and a short vacation after that. I
will be back here on 11 July. The Geneva meeting is of a group primarily
European concerned with household energy in developing countries. The
group's name is HEDON. It meets roughly once in a year. Kirk Smith and
Jurgen Usinger are both expected to be there. I shall speak to them about
the interest in Nicaragua.

That is it for now. See yous guys in two weeks' time.

Prasad

 

 

From E.Moerman at stud.tue.nl Fri Jun 28 09:05:00 1996
From: E.Moerman at stud.tue.nl (E.Moerman)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Usinger computer program
Message-ID: <54529.s335192@popserver.tue.nl>

Prasad and others,

I think it should be pointed out that the program can be used to make very
good user profiles and the demands that the stove has to meet, but the
efficiency data used by the program is unreliable for most stoves.
Also technical and health evaluations appear to be virtually absent. When
reliable efficiency data for all stoves is determined it will be an
excellent program and even now it is excellent for the determination of
stove and user profiles.

Etienne
---------------------------------------------
Etienne Moerman E.Moerman@stud.tue.nl
Joh. Buyslaan 71 tel. +31-40-2571491
5652 NJ EINDHOVEN The Netherlands

 

From rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni Sun Jun 30 17:02:16 1996
From: rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: Nicaragua and stoves
Message-ID: <199606301505.PAA18031@ns.sdnnic.org.ni>

At 01:57 PM 6/27/96 +0200, you wrote:
>To:Ron, Rogier and other stovers
>
>From:Prasad
>
>Date: 27 July 1996
>
>At long last the stove group seems to have woken from a midsummer slumber.
>

>If the stove group is interested in helping Rogier to build better stoves in
>Nicaragua, Honduras etc. we should not start on the basis of starry eyed
>do-gooders, but we should approach it with a clear professional approach.
>The following is a short list of questions that need to be answered
>by Rogier and then we need to formulate a "proposal" for action. If this
>appears acceptable to Rogier we need to approach funders for carrying out
>the work.
>
>(i) What is being cooked? MAINLY RICE, BEANS, CORN TORTILLAS, EGGS AND COFFE
>(ii) How much is cooked? FOR A FAMILI OF SIX
>(iii) How often do they cook in a day/ 3 TO 4 TIMES
>(iv) Are there differences among the different meals i a day? If so, what
> are these? NOT REALLY, BASIC DIET IS BEANS AND CORN TORTILLAS FOR
BREAKFAST, LUNCH AND DINNER

>(v) How long do they take to cook? ABOUT 60 TO 90 MINUTES

>(vi) What is the fuel used? PINE AND HARDWOODS
>(vii) Do they buy it? YES If so, how much do they pay? FROM 20us$/TON IN
HONDURAS TO 60us$/TON IN NICARAGUA
If not, where do they
> collect it from, and how much time do they spend on fuel collection?
>(viii) What type of stove they currently use? TRADITIONAL MOOD BUILT
WITHOUT CHAMINEE AND Is it simply three stones SOME TIMES
> collected arbitrarily from the surroundings?
>(ix) What type of pans are used? METAL, ALUMINIUN
>(x) What is the situation with respect to stove production? are there
> metal workers, potters etc who making a living out of this work? NO
>(xi) What is the situation with respect to small-scale industries in the
> area? is it possible that such industries would be interested in
> producing the stoves? IF THERE IS ENOUGH DEMAND, PROBABLY
>(xii) What is the marketing possibility of stoves? NEEDS MUCH MORE PROMOTION
>(xiii) What is the financing mechanism for buying stoves? NONE
>
>etc. etc.
>
>After compiling this list, a couple of things dawned by me. I thought in
>this mailing list there was set of specifications for stoves. I am sorry I
don't
>have the time now to retrieve it and compare my list with that. Secondly,
>there is a computer programme developed Jurgen Usinger which can be used in
>a systematic way to collect data and provides suggestions of stove designs
>for a particular case.
>
>I a off to Geneva to attend a meeting and a short vacation after that. I
>will be back here on 11 July. The Geneva meeting is of a group primarily
>European concerned with household energy in developing countries. The
>group's name is HEDON. It meets roughly once in a year. Kirk Smith and
>Jurgen Usinger are both expected to be there. I shall speak to them about
>the interest in Nicaragua.
>
>That is it for now. See yous guys in two weeks' time.
>
>Prasad
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0412
E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From larcon at csn.net Sun Jun 30 19:32:07 1996
From: larcon at csn.net (Ronal Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:34:56 2004
Subject: wood contamination and efficient
In-Reply-To: <199606301505.PAA18025@ns.sdnnic.org.ni>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9606301751.A2712-0100000@teal.csn.net>

Stovers: I am responding publicly to this private message from Rogerio
- as it contains some new information but especially new names.

Ron

On Sun, 30 Jun 1996, Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda wrote:

> At 07:43 PM 6/26/96 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > We got started last January when a few people started taking up a
> >lot of space on the bioenergy list. Two key persons who have been
> >talking are Dr. Etienne Moerman and Professor Prasad at Eindhoven
> >University (Netherlands). They have been skeptical that the
> >charcoal-making stove can work - even though we see it work well
> >regularly. We in this case are Tom Reed, Tom Duke and myself - all of
> >whom have tried it. I don't believe any others on the list have tried to
> >make one yet.
>
>
> I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A COPY OF THE MODEL, AND WE COULD TRY TO BUILD ONE HERE
> AND EXPERIMENT. IF I UNDESTAND, WITH THIS STOVE, YOU CAN COOK AND PRODUCE
> CHARCOAL AS BY PRODUCT. IS THAT RIGHT ? DO YOU THINK IS IT SUITABLE FOR
> CENTRAL AMERICA.
>
1). I believe that you should have received two "forwards" from
last January that described the basic principles.
2) It is correct that one can produce charcoal as a by-product.
3) I believe that it should be suitable for Central America,
bsedon my understanding that charcoal is used extensively - and probably
produced inefficiently.

> > I am going to send my two original January stove papers and will
> >try to find other key papers if you believe they would be helpful. These
> >are only to show the general charcoal-making principles - there still
> >need also to be better methods to improve the insulation and therfore the
> >efficiency.
> >
Please let me know if you did not receive these.

> MY WIFE WORKS AT USAID/NICARAGUA, AND WE HAVE US.MAIL ACESS.
>
> MY ADDRESS IS:
>
> ROGERIO MIRANDA
> USAID/NICARAGUA
> UNIT 2712 BOX 9
> APO AA 34021
> >
> > I hope it was OK to forward you letter to the full group. Most
> >of us do this and it seems to work best. This present message is known
> >to most of those on the list - and my other response was already too
> >long. I am sorry to have lost your other message, but maybe this is
> >enough anyway.
> >
> > I am afraid the stove group is still not very well advertised on
> >the Internet. Any suggestions?
> >
> >Regards
> >
> >Ron
> >
> I WOULD SUGGEST THE FOUNDATION FOR WOODSTOVE DISEMINATION, BUT SEEMS
> THAT THEY ARE ALREADY CONNECTED.

Yes FWD-Kenya is on the list. I believe there are other offices
- if so, do you have any additional e-mail addresses?

>
> FAO PROMOTES AN INFORMAL WOODENERGY NETWORK FOR TECHNICAL COOPERATION AMONG
> LATIN AMERICAN COUNTRIES. EVERY 2 YEARS THE NATIONAL COORDINATORS GET
> TOGETHER TO DISCUSS SOME TOPICS RELATED TO WOODENERGY. NATIONAL
> COORDINATORS PROMOTES WOODENERGY INFORMATION DISSEMIANTION INSIDE EACH
> COUNTRY. UNFORTUNATELY, NOT ALL OF THE COORDINATORS HAS E-MAIL ACESS.
>
> BUT THE KEY PEOPLE ARE:
>
> MIGUEL TROSSERO WOODENERGY EXPERT-FAO/ROME "miguel.trossero@fao.org"
> TORSTEN FRISK TECHNICAL SECRETARY FAO/CHILE "t.frisk-fao@cgnet.com"
> LUIS AUGUSTO HORTA COORDINATOR EFEI/BRASIL "horta@iem.efei.rmg.br"
> >
> ALSO, THERE IS
>
> 1. THE BIOMASS USERS NETWORK (BUN), A WORLDWIDE NGO CREATED BY DEVELOPING
> COUNTRIES TO PROMOTE BIOMASS AMONG SOUTH-SOUTH COOPERATION.
>
> JOSE MARIA BLANCO BUN/COSTA RICA "josemb@cariari.ucr.ac.cr"
>
> 2. DR. ERICK BOY OF THE CENTRAL AMERICA INSTITUTE FOR NUTRITION (INCAP) WHO
> IS DEVELOPING RESEARCH ABOUT THE HEALTH IMPACT OF TRADITIONAL WOODSTOVES.
> DR. KIRK HAS CONTACT WITH HIM
>
> ERICK BOY INCAP/GUATEMALA "eboy@incap2.org.gt"
>
> 3. THE REGIONAL WOODENERGY PROJECT DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME (RWEDP) OF FAO IN
> ASIA, WHO IS WORKING IN 15 ASIA COUNTRIES WITH ALL ASPECTS OF WOODENERGY
>
> DR. W. HULSCHER CHIEF TECHNICAL ADVISOR/RWEDP THAILAND "rwedp@ksc.net.th"
>
>
> FINNALY, I WILL SHARE THE STOVE NET ADDRESS WITH INTERESTED PEOPLE HERE IN
> NICARAGUA AND IN HONDURAS.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0412
> E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Rogerio - Thanks for the new e-mail addresses - I will sign them
up using this message as an introduction. It is clear that all of these
are important groups to include. Thanks also for your public message to
Prasad, which I will also forward to them, to show a little better how
our group operates (which is - informal). Perhaps others on
the list can also add other names (with addresses) that should belong to
"stoves".

Regards

Ron Larson