BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Tue Apr 1 17:43:32 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Admin request: /^subject:\s*help\b/i
Message-ID: <v01540b00af66580ea478@[204.133.251.12]>

Stovers - anyone able to help?

Ron

>>From stoves-owner@crest.org Mon Mar 31 20:02:46 1997
>Received: from emout14.mail.aol.com (emout14.mx.aol.com [198.81.11.40]) by
>solstice.crest.org (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11833 for
><stoves@crest.org>; Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:02:45 -0500 (EST)
>From: TheConrads@aol.com
>Received: (from root@localhost)
> by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0)
> id UAA12175 for stoves@crest.org;
> Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:10:18 -0500 (EST)
>Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:10:18 -0500 (EST)
>Message-ID: <970331200929_1783125681@emout14.mail.aol.com>
>To: stoves@crest.org
>Subject: Help
>
>Hope maybe you can help. I have gone thru the www and aol trying to find info
>on an antique gas stove I recently purchased and am totally lost. Its a
>Roberts & Manders Stove Co. product, Quality Gas Stove. Green marble enamel
>on the sides, oven up high on one side, broiler under oven and 4 burners an a
>warmer jet on the other side. Front is black trim with cream color legs and
>door fronts with original hanging handles. If you just know how to get to
>something on the net that I can go from there it would be greatly
>appreciated.
>Thanks
>Judy Conrad
>TheConrads@AOL.com

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Thu Apr 3 22:50:46 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: dendroenergia
Message-ID: <v01540b01af6a29e3c8eb@[204.133.251.9]>

Stovers - I hope I am not sending you a second copy, but this got to me as
a coordinator because of some minor still unknown glitch. Rogerio (a
long-time contributor to our list) had meant that it go to you directly.

>From: Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda <rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
>Subject: dendroenergia/INTERNET
>
>
>>
>>ESPANOL
>>=======
>>
>
>RED LATINOAMERICANA DE DISCUSION EN DENDROENERGIA VIA INTERNET
>
>La dendroenergia es la energia derivada de la madera. En muchos
>paises de latinoamerica es la principal fuente de energia y el
>principal producto forestal. De una forma o de otra, basicamente
>todos los paises de la region utilizan la dendroenergia.
>
>El uso de la dendroenergia en Latinoamerica es principalmente va
>desde la coccion de alimentos, industrias rurales, restaurantes hasta
>grandes y modernas industrias de acero.
>
>Sin embargo el uso de la dendroenergia en la region aun no se ha
>desarrollado en una forma equitativa y generalizada en todo su
>potencial, ni con relacion a las formas de produccion, ni con su
>utilizacion.
>
>La falta de recursos financieros, personal tecnico y apoyo politico
>ha sido una de la principales causas del atraso de este sector.
>
>Sin embargo existen excelentes experiencias aisladas en la region,
>que debe ser difundida y compartida con todos los demas. La Red
>Latinoamericana de Discusion en Dendroenergia via Internet tiene como
>objetivo incentivar y facilitar el intercambio de informacion,
>experiencias y oportunidades entre las personas y organizaciones
>dentro y fuera de la region, interesadas en el tema del desarrollo y
>modernizacion del sector dendroenergetico.
>
>Para participar de la red de discusion, solo debe enviar un mensage a
>la seguiente direccion electronica <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni>
>con el seguiente mensage:
>
>"subscribe dendroenergia <su direccion electronica>"
>
>Despues, si tiene una pregunta, respuesta o cualquier informacion
>sobre el tema dendroenergetico de interes a la region
>latinoamericana y la quiera compartir con los demas miembros de la
>red, por favor envie su mensagen a <dendroenergia@sdnnic.org.ni> . Su
>mensage podra ser en Espanol o Portugues.
>
>Por favor intente ser claro y objetivo con su mensage, y dele a el un
>titulo ("subject") sugestivo, para que los miembros puedan decidir si les
>interesa participar o no de un especifico tema en discusion .
>
>Si algun dia deseas retirarse de la lista de discusion, simplemente
>envie la seguiente mensage a la seguiente direccion:
>
><majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni>
>
>"unsubscribe dendroenergia <su direccion electronica>"
>
>Bueno, bienvenido a la Red Latinoamerica de Discusion en
>Dendroenergia via Internet. Esperamos que su participacion sea
>activa, y que usted pueda sacar un buen provecho de la misma.
>
>Atentamente
>
>Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda
>Coordinador
>------------------------------------------------
>
>>PORTUGUES
>>=========
>>REDE LATINOAMERICA DE DISCUSSAO EM DENDROENERGIA VIA INTERNET
>>
>>A dendroenergia, ou seja, a energia derivada da madeira ainda e para muitos
>dos paises latinoamericanos a principal fonte de energia e o principal
>produto florestal. De uma forma ou de outra, basicamente todos os paises da
>regiao utilizam a dendroenergia.
>>
>>O uso da dendroenergia na America latina e principalmente para para a
>coccao domestica, industrias rurais, restaurantes e inclusive para grandes e
>modernas industrias de aco. Entretanto, o uso da dendroenergia na regiao
>ainda nao tem evoluido de uma forma equitativa e generalizada con todo o seu
>potencial, nem com relacao as suas formas de producao, nem com relacao a sua
>utilizacao. A falta de recursos financeiros, pessoal tecnico e apoio
>politico tem sido uma das principais causas do primitivismo deste setor.
>Entretanto, existem excelentes experiencias isoladas na regiao, que devem
>ser difundidas e compartidas com todos os demais. A Rede Latinoamericana de
>Discussao em Dendroenergia via Internet tem como objetivo incentivar e
>facilitar o imtercambio de imformacao, experiencias e oportunidades entre as
>pessoas e organizacoes dentro e fora da regiao, interessadas no tema de
>desenvolvimento e modernizacao do setor dendroenergetico.
>>
>>Para participar da rede de discussao, primeiramente basta enviar uma
>mensagem a seguinte direcao eletronica <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni> e com
>somente a seguiente mensagem:
>>"subscribe dendroenergia <seu endereco eletronico>"
>>
>>Depois, si voce tiver uma pergunta, resposta ou outra qualquer informacao
>sobre o tema dendroenergetico que interesse principalmente a regiao
>latinoamericana e a queira compartir com os demais membros da rede, por
>favor envie sua mensagem a <dendroenergia@sdnnic.org.ni> . Sua mensagem
>podera ser em Espanhol ou em Portugues.
>>
>>Por favor tente ser o mais claro e objetivo com sua mensagem, e de a ela um
>titulo ("subject") sugestivo, para que os miembros da rede possam decidir si
>lhes interesa ou nao participar de um especifico tema em discussao.
>>
>>Si algum dia desejar se retirar da lista de discussao, simplesmente envie a
>seguinte mensagem ao seguinte endereco: <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni>
>>
>>unsubscribe dendroenergia <seu endereco eletronico>
>>
>>Bom, bemvindo a Rede Latinoamerica de Discusao em Dendroenergia via
>Internet. Esperamos que sua participacao seja a mais ativa posivel, e que
>voce possa tirar boms proveitos da mesma
>>
>>Atenciosamente,
>>
>>Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda
>>Coordenador
>>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0555
>PROLENA(Nicaragua)
>Apartado Postal C-321 Managua Nicaragua
>E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au Fri Apr 4 06:52:12 1997
From: verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: dendroenergia
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970404115025.006ab160@janus.cqu.edu.au>

At 20:54 3/04/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Stovers - I hope I am not sending you a second copy, but this got to me as
>a coordinator because of some minor still unknown glitch. Rogerio (a
>long-time contributor to our list) had meant that it go to you directly.
>
>>From: Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda <rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
>>Subject: dendroenergia/INTERNET
>>
>>
>>>
>>>ESPANOL
>>>=======
>>>
>>
>>RED LATINOAMERICANA DE DISCUSION EN DENDROENERGIA VIA INTERNET
>>
>>La dendroenergia es la energia derivada de la madera. En muchos
>>paises de latinoamerica es la principal fuente de energia y el
>>principal producto forestal. De una forma o de otra, basicamente
>>todos los paises de la region utilizan la dendroenergia.
>>
>>El uso de la dendroenergia en Latinoamerica es principalmente va
>>desde la coccion de alimentos, industrias rurales, restaurantes hasta
>>grandes y modernas industrias de acero.
>>
>>Sin embargo el uso de la dendroenergia en la region aun no se ha
>>desarrollado en una forma equitativa y generalizada en todo su
>>potencial, ni con relacion a las formas de produccion, ni con su
>>utilizacion.
>>
>>La falta de recursos financieros, personal tecnico y apoyo politico
>>ha sido una de la principales causas del atraso de este sector.
>>
>>Sin embargo existen excelentes experiencias aisladas en la region,
>>que debe ser difundida y compartida con todos los demas. La Red
>>Latinoamericana de Discusion en Dendroenergia via Internet tiene como
>>objetivo incentivar y facilitar el intercambio de informacion,
>>experiencias y oportunidades entre las personas y organizaciones
>>dentro y fuera de la region, interesadas en el tema del desarrollo y
>>modernizacion del sector dendroenergetico.
>>
>>Para participar de la red de discusion, solo debe enviar un mensage a
>>la seguiente direccion electronica <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni>
>>con el seguiente mensage:
>>
>>"subscribe dendroenergia <su direccion electronica>"
>>
>>Despues, si tiene una pregunta, respuesta o cualquier informacion
>>sobre el tema dendroenergetico de interes a la region
>>latinoamericana y la quiera compartir con los demas miembros de la
>>red, por favor envie su mensagen a <dendroenergia@sdnnic.org.ni> . Su
>>mensage podra ser en Espanol o Portugues.
>>
>>Por favor intente ser claro y objetivo con su mensage, y dele a el un
>>titulo ("subject") sugestivo, para que los miembros puedan decidir si les
>>interesa participar o no de un especifico tema en discusion .
>>
>>Si algun dia deseas retirarse de la lista de discusion, simplemente
>>envie la seguiente mensage a la seguiente direccion:
>>
>><majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni>
>>
>>"unsubscribe dendroenergia <su direccion electronica>"
>>
>>Bueno, bienvenido a la Red Latinoamerica de Discusion en
>>Dendroenergia via Internet. Esperamos que su participacion sea
>>activa, y que usted pueda sacar un buen provecho de la misma.
>>
>>Atentamente
>>
>>Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda
>>Coordinador
>>------------------------------------------------
>>
>>>PORTUGUES
>>>=========
>>>REDE LATINOAMERICA DE DISCUSSAO EM DENDROENERGIA VIA INTERNET
>>>
>>>A dendroenergia, ou seja, a energia derivada da madeira ainda e para muitos
>>dos paises latinoamericanos a principal fonte de energia e o principal
>>produto florestal. De uma forma ou de outra, basicamente todos os paises da
>>regiao utilizam a dendroenergia.
>>>
>>>O uso da dendroenergia na America latina e principalmente para para a
>>coccao domestica, industrias rurais, restaurantes e inclusive para grandes e
>>modernas industrias de aco. Entretanto, o uso da dendroenergia na regiao
>>ainda nao tem evoluido de uma forma equitativa e generalizada con todo o seu
>>potencial, nem com relacao as suas formas de producao, nem com relacao a sua
>>utilizacao. A falta de recursos financeiros, pessoal tecnico e apoio
>>politico tem sido uma das principais causas do primitivismo deste setor.
>>Entretanto, existem excelentes experiencias isoladas na regiao, que devem
>>ser difundidas e compartidas com todos os demais. A Rede Latinoamericana de
>>Discussao em Dendroenergia via Internet tem como objetivo incentivar e
>>facilitar o imtercambio de imformacao, experiencias e oportunidades entre as
>>pessoas e organizacoes dentro e fora da regiao, interessadas no tema de
>>desenvolvimento e modernizacao do setor dendroenergetico.
>>>
>>>Para participar da rede de discussao, primeiramente basta enviar uma
>>mensagem a seguinte direcao eletronica <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni> e com
>>somente a seguiente mensagem:
>>>"subscribe dendroenergia <seu endereco eletronico>"
>>>
>>>Depois, si voce tiver uma pergunta, resposta ou outra qualquer informacao
>>sobre o tema dendroenergetico que interesse principalmente a regiao
>>latinoamericana e a queira compartir com os demais membros da rede, por
>>favor envie sua mensagem a <dendroenergia@sdnnic.org.ni> . Sua mensagem
>>podera ser em Espanhol ou em Portugues.
>>>
>>>Por favor tente ser o mais claro e objetivo com sua mensagem, e de a ela um
>>titulo ("subject") sugestivo, para que os miembros da rede possam decidir si
>>lhes interesa ou nao participar de um especifico tema em discussao.
>>>
>>>Si algum dia desejar se retirar da lista de discussao, simplesmente envie a
>>seguinte mensagem ao seguinte endereco: <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni>
>>>
>>>unsubscribe dendroenergia <seu endereco eletronico>
>>>
>>>Bom, bemvindo a Rede Latinoamerica de Discusao em Dendroenergia via
>>Internet. Esperamos que sua participacao seja a mais ativa posivel, e que
>>voce possa tirar boms proveitos da mesma
>>>
>>>Atenciosamente,
>>>
>>>Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda
>>>Coordenador
>>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0555
>>PROLENA(Nicaragua)
>>Apartado Postal C-321 Managua Nicaragua
>>E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401
>303/526-9629
>
>
>
Obrigado Rogerio, mais nao falo Portuges, muito despondamente.
Peter Verhaart
Peter Verhaart 6 McDonald St Gracemere Q 4702 Australia
Phone: +61 79 331761 Fax: +61 79 331761 or 332112
E-mail: verhaarp@janus.cqu.edu.au

 

 

From verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au Sat Apr 5 06:17:49 1997
From: verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: dendroenergia
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970405111634.006ad68c@janus.cqu.edu.au>

To Rogerio
from Peter Verhaart

Rogerio, I apologise for the silly message I apparently sent you. I had no
intention of sending it, I was just trying to compose a sentence in
Portugese and intended to delete the whole message afterward.
I think Dendroaneergia is a good idea.
Regards,
Peter Verhaart
Peter Verhaart 6 McDonald St Gracemere Q 4702 Australia
Phone: +61 79 331761 Fax: +61 79 331761 or 332112
E-mail: verhaarp@janus.cqu.edu.au

 

 

From rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni Sat Apr 5 13:22:02 1997
From: rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: dendroenergia
Message-ID: <199704051222.MAA21974@ns.sdnnic.org.ni>

At 09:16 PM 4/5/97 +1000, you wrote:

Obrigado Rogerio, mais nao falo Portuges, muito despondamente.
Peter Verhaart

>To Rogerio
>from Peter Verhaart
>
>Rogerio, I apologise for the silly message I apparently sent you. I had no
>intention of sending it, I was just trying to compose a sentence in
>Portugese and intended to delete the whole message afterward.
>I think Dendroaneergia is a good idea.
>Regards,
>Peter Verhaart

==========================

Dear Peter: that is all right. I didn't see anythingh wrongh with that
message. But, what "despondamente" means ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0555
PROLENA(Nicaragua)
Apartado Postal C-321 Managua Nicaragua
E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Mon Apr 7 21:14:25 1997
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Bioenergy Email Lists and Commands
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970407180729.006c6678@mail.teleport.com>

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From renoresource at ns.sympatico.ca Thu Apr 10 12:05:29 1997
From: renoresource at ns.sympatico.ca (jennifer corson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Antique stove restoration
Message-ID: <334CE4BA.69ED@ns.sympatico.ca>

Hello -
We're looking for someone who specializes in restoring vintage stoves,
preferably in Maritime provinces. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks -

 

From mheat at mha-net.org Thu Apr 10 18:38:53 1997
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Antique stove restoration
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970410173858.007cfcf0@mha-net.org>

At 01:01 PM 10/04/97 +0000, jennifer corson wrote:
>Hello -
>We're looking for someone who specializes in restoring vintage stoves,
>preferably in Maritime provinces. Any comments would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks -
>

Don't know of anybody in the maritime provinces, but do know somebody near
Kingston, Ontario:

Bay Barn Woodstoves
Seeley's Bay
Ontario
613-387-3273

He specializes in buying up old Finlay Oval cookstoves and restoring them -
he's got a whole barn full, about 1500 stoves or so, plus a lot of spare
parts.
He has other ones as well. The Elmira Oval, a current airtight cookstove
manufactured by Heartland, uses the same castings as the old Findlay, which
used to be cast and manufactured near here in Carleton Place.
-----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf--------------------email:---mheat@mha-net.org
Masonry Stove Builders-------------------mheat@hookup.net
RR 5, Shawville-----------------website: http://mha-net.org/msb
Quebec J0X 2Y0------------------fax:-----819.647.6082
--------------------------------voice:---819.647.5092

 

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Fri Apr 11 08:11:48 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Antique stove restoration
Message-ID: <v01540b01af7301919156@[204.133.251.8]>

Stovers -
Second request today. Sorry to anyone who would rather not get
these - but maybe we are doing a service that will promote greater use of
biomass. I don't mind forwarding them. Your thoughts? Ron

>X-Authentication-Warning: solstice.crest.org: majordom set sender to
>owner-stoves@crest.org using -f
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:01:46 +0000
>From: jennifer corson <renoresource@ns.sympatico.ca>
>Organization: renovator's resource inc.
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: stoves@crest.org
>Subject: Antique stove restoration
>X-URL: http://www.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/msg00514.html
>Sender: owner-stoves@crest.org
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: stoves@crest.org
>
>Hello -
>We're looking for someone who specializes in restoring vintage stoves,
>preferably in Maritime provinces. Any comments would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks -

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Fri Apr 11 08:11:44 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Antique Stove ?
Message-ID: <v01540b00af73006c4c6f@[204.133.251.8]>

stovers
Someone may be able to help this person. However, let's also have
a few thoughts on whether this is the type of dialog we wish to have on the
list. I can simply reply in the future (or now) that such questions are
addressing the wrong group.

Ron

>From: "Mahesh Kumar" <mahesh@mainebiolab.com>
>To: <owner-stoves@crest.org>
>Subject: Antique Stove ?
>Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:40:40 -0400
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Priority: 3
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>I happen to own a Wood/Kerosene stove, and am considering selling it. The
>brand name is NORGE. Its in fairly decent shape. It has a pink marbled
>finish to it. Can you advise me on its fair value. Ball park figures are
>fine. If you can't can you point me in the right direction. Thanks.
>
>mahesh@mainebiolab.com

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Sat Apr 12 20:47:24 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: making charcoals machinery
Message-ID: <v01540b00af754c0613c2@[204.133.251.9]>

Stovers -

Here is another special request for assistance from a
non-list-member - from Cyprus.

Ron

>Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:46:24 +0300 (EET DST)
>X-Sender: union@nautilus.spidernet.net
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>To: owner-stoves@crest.org
>From: union@spidernet.com.cy (stavros kaniklides)
>Subject: making charcoals machinery
>
>Dear sirs,
>
>We are interested in makink charcoals and we will highly apreciated to inform
>us if you do have any ready made stoves for this operation, further more
>please note that our dayly capacity will be around 5 tones per day.
>
>In the affirmative case please advise position and any other information you
>consider nesessary.
>
>thanking you in advance
>
>Best regards
>
>STAVROS KANIKLIDES MD
>
>P.S OUR FAX NO FOR CYPRUS IS 357 4 625030
> OUR TEL NO 357 4 659320
> OUR email is union@spidernet.com.cy
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From J.J.Todd at geog.utas.edu.au Mon Apr 14 20:34:21 1997
From: J.J.Todd at geog.utas.edu.au (John Todd)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: reducing wood-smoke
Message-ID: <199704150034.KAA01313@corinna.its.utas.edu.au>

Dear Stovers
This is a request for assistance/suggestions relating to ways of reducing
smoke emissions through correct/optimum operation of a heater/stove.
I am involved in a national program (Australia) aimed at reducing urban
wood-smoke levels through community education on correct woodheater
operation. We are running a trial in the state of Tasmania this southern
winter (i.e. heating season May to October). The following list of nine
operating hints is what I have come up with so far. Any further suggestions
would be very welcome. I would also be interested to hear of other
community education programs on this topic. The program is aimed
specifically at what we call woodheaters (i.e. wood stoves) used for heating
homes. The education material will naturally have considerably more detail
than in this summary of points. For example, it will explain why these
suggestions will reduce smoke.

1. Always run the heater on its maximum burn rate setting for 20 minutes
after refuelling or lighting the heater.
2. Do not over-fill the heater. There must be space above the wood load to
allow gases to burn.
3. When lighting a cold heater always use sufficient kindling to get a good
hot fire established quickly.
4. If the fuel load has burnt down very low so there are only a few red
coals present do not just add large logs, instead add some paper and small
wood pieces to get the fire re-established.
5. Use smaller logs for high heat outputs and larger logs for slower burning.
6. Always use dry firewood. It should have less than 20% by weight of
water. Store wood in a well ventilated, covered space.
7. Place logs in the firebox with about 2 cm between logs to allow
combustion air to penetrate the stack of wood.
8. Check your flue for visible smoke from time to time. There should be
only very faint smoke or, preferably no visible smoke, except for a 10 to 15
minute period after lighting or refuelling. Try adjusting the fuel load and
air settings to minimise smoke.
9. Keep your heater and flue in good working order. Inspect annually.

Thanks, in anticipation, for your help.
Regards
John Todd
Centre for Environmental Studies, University of Tasmania
GPO Box 252-78, HOBART, Tas 7001, Australia
e-mail J.J.Todd@geog.utas.edu.au
fax ++61 3 6226 2989, phone ++61 3 6226 2390

 

 

From john at gulland.ca Tue Apr 15 06:51:21 1997
From: john at gulland.ca (John Gulland)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: reducing wood-smoke
In-Reply-To: <199704150034.KAA01313@corinna.its.utas.edu.au>
Message-ID: <335387F0.2FAD@gulland.ca>

John Todd wrote:
>
> Dear Stovers
> This is a request for assistance/suggestions relating to ways of reducing
> smoke emissions through correct/optimum operation of a heater/stove.
> I am involved in a national program (Australia) aimed at reducing urban
> wood-smoke levels through community education on correct woodheater
> operation. We are running a trial in the state of Tasmania this southern
> winter (i.e. heating season May to October). The following list of nine
> operating hints is what I have come up with so far. Any further suggestions
> would be very welcome. I would also be interested to hear of other
> community education programs on this topic. The program is aimed
> specifically at what we call woodheaters (i.e. wood stoves) used for heating
> homes. The education material will naturally have considerably more detail
> than in this summary of points. For example, it will explain why these
> suggestions will reduce smoke.
>
> 1. Always run the heater on its maximum burn rate setting for 20 minutes
> after refuelling or lighting the heater.
> 2. Do not over-fill the heater. There must be space above the wood load to
> allow gases to burn.
> 3. When lighting a cold heater always use sufficient kindling to get a good
> hot fire established quickly.
> 4. If the fuel load has burnt down very low so there are only a few red
> coals present do not just add large logs, instead add some paper and small
> wood pieces to get the fire re-established.
> 5. Use smaller logs for high heat outputs and larger logs for slower burning.
> 6. Always use dry firewood. It should have less than 20% by weight of
> water. Store wood in a well ventilated, covered space.
> 7. Place logs in the firebox with about 2 cm between logs to allow
> combustion air to penetrate the stack of wood.
> 8. Check your flue for visible smoke from time to time. There should be
> only very faint smoke or, preferably no visible smoke, except for a 10 to 15
> minute period after lighting or refuelling. Try adjusting the fuel load and
> air settings to minimise smoke.
> 9. Keep your heater and flue in good working order. Inspect annually.
>
> Thanks, in anticipation, for your help.
> Regards
> John Todd
> Centre for Environmental Studies, University of Tasmania
> GPO Box 252-78, HOBART, Tas 7001, Australia
> e-mail J.J.Todd@geog.utas.edu.au
> fax ++61 3 6226 2989, phone ++61 3 6226 2390
>

John,
I'm short of time and will be out of the office for the next three days,
but I wanted to respond to your post before leaving. Yours is an
interesting question and one I've pondered for many years. It is one
thing to tell people what to do, but if you don't catch their attention,
appeal to their sense of curiosity or sense of humor, they'll ignore
you. You are trying to "sell" some fairly complex ideas on how to
avoid smoke when burning wood and you are attempting to be heard over
the din of mega-millions of dollars of advertizing messages for
commercial goods.

I have done several versions of such lists of suggestions over the years
and my messages continue to evolve. For the last few years, I've had
great success with the top down fire and I have people e-mailing me
saying how much less smoke their making and how much less wood their
using. Check out two articles on my wood-heat web site:
All about wood smoke http://www.wood-heat.com/smoke.htm
Top down fever http://www.wood-heat.com/topdown.htm

Neither article has the perfect list, but I think I could help you put
one together. Contact me if you would like to discuss this in more
detail.

Regards,
John

This is for business: http://www.gulland.ca
This is for pleasure: http://www.wood-heat.com

 

From mheat at mha-net.org Tue Apr 15 07:33:27 1997
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: reducing wood-smoke
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970415063347.007b7100@mha-net.org>

At 10:34 AM 15/04/97 +1000, John Todd wrote:
>Dear Stovers
>This is a request for assistance/suggestions relating to ways of reducing
>smoke emissions through correct/optimum operation of a heater/stove.
(snip)
>1. Always run the heater on its maximum burn rate setting for 20 minutes
>after refuelling or lighting the heater.
>2. Do not over-fill the heater. There must be space above the wood load to
>allow gases to burn.
>3. When lighting a cold heater always use sufficient kindling to get a good
>hot fire established quickly.
>4. If the fuel load has burnt down very low so there are only a few red
>coals present do not just add large logs, instead add some paper and small
>wood pieces to get the fire re-established.
>5. Use smaller logs for high heat outputs and larger logs for slower burning.
>6. Always use dry firewood. It should have less than 20% by weight of
>water. Store wood in a well ventilated, covered space.
>7. Place logs in the firebox with about 2 cm between logs to allow
>combustion air to penetrate the stack of wood.
>8. Check your flue for visible smoke from time to time. There should be
>only very faint smoke or, preferably no visible smoke, except for a 10 to 15
>minute period after lighting or refuelling. Try adjusting the fuel load and
>air settings to minimise smoke.
>9. Keep your heater and flue in good working order. Inspect annually.
>

John:

There is some additional good public service-type information about
woodsmoke on John Gulland's site at

http://www.wood-heat.com/smoke.htm

Best........Norbert
-----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf--------------------email:---mheat@mha-net.org
Masonry Stove Builders-------------------mheat@hookup.net
RR 5, Shawville-----------------website: http://mha-net.org/msb
Quebec J0X 2Y0------------------fax:-----819.647.6082
--------------------------------voice:---819.647.5092

 

 

 

From verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au Tue Apr 15 07:38:34 1997
From: verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: reducing wood-smoke
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970415113705.006afc5c@janus.cqu.edu.au>

At 10:34 15/04/97 +1000, you wrote:
>Dear Stovers
Dear John,

One sentence that, in my opinion, sums it all up is.

Prevent fuel not in the immediate vicinity of the combustion zone getting
involved.

The 'Top down fire', just recently discussed is one example. Thanks to
natural bouyancy the hot combustion gases rise and do not affect underlying
layers of fuel.

The downdraft system is another where the layer of fuel is deliberately kept
thin, achieving the same goal.

When in Tasmania in 1995 we stayed in a cottage, near Richmond (?) if I am
not mistaken. The heater had been built by the owner, who clearly had an
innate feeling for woodburning. This heater drew fresh air through a series
of holes directed at the bottom of the fuelstack. The combustion gases were
led away from the fuel, resulting in good combustion.

This gave me the first impulse to take up woodburning devices again, the
second was <stoves@crest.org>

Hope you will let us share the results.

Good hunting,

Peter Verhaart
Peter Verhaart 6 McDonald St Gracemere Q 4702 Australia
Phone: +61 79 331761 Fax: +61 79 331761 or 332112
E-mail: verhaarp@janus.cqu.edu.au

 

 

From skip.hayden at cc2smtp.NRCan.gc.ca Tue Apr 15 09:43:17 1997
From: skip.hayden at cc2smtp.NRCan.gc.ca (Skip Hayden)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: reducing wood-smoke
Message-ID: <9703158611.AA861121744@cc2smtp.nrcan.gc.ca>

John et al:

Your recommendations are quite good ones.

Perhaps the most important though is to recommend that, if at all
possible, the user should be burning the wood in one of the newer
advanced combustion wood stoves meeting the US EPA Phase II or other
similaR NATIONAL EMISSIONS TESTS.

With these stoves, the recommendations about burnig high for 20
minutes after re-loading is not necessary - perhaps 5 minutes is
plenty. Most also have a glass door which allows viewing of the flame
and visualization of the occurence of secondary combustion.

You should also stress to the users that a cleaner burn results in
safer operation - much less to no creosote deposition and hence
minimal chance of a chimney/flue fire, and a better indoor
environment, as well as more efficient operation so they will use less
wood.

Particularly with the older stoves, it is important to stress that the
stoves should not be turned way down for a long. slow, overnight burn.

Again, with the better new designs, fuel size is not all that
important, once the fire has been established and there are hot coals.
In fact, it is often easier to generate a hotter burn with larger
pieces.

Many of the new designs have their own eccentricities as to how they
burn best. Some require a small channel to be dug through the ashes
under the wood, others have other specific requirements. Hence you
should also preface your generalizations with some sort of comment
that the individual should take time to learn how his stove runs best.
My comments above re the glass doors should be considered, so that
they can watch and learn how to have secondary combustion above the
primary burning zone.

Good luck!

Skip Hayden
Senior Research Scientist
Advanced Combustion Technologies
CANMET Energy Technology Centre
Ottawa, Canada K1A 1M1

skip.hayden@cc2smtp.nrcan.gc.ca

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: reducing wood-smoke
Author: stoves@crest.org at internet
Date: 4/15/97 7:40 AM

At 10:34 15/04/97 +1000, you wrote:
>Dear Stovers
Dear John,

One sentence that, in my opinion, sums it all up is.

Prevent fuel not in the immediate vicinity of the combustion zone getting
involved.

The 'Top down fire', just recently discussed is one example. Thanks to
natural bouyancy the hot combustion gases rise and do not affect underlying
layers of fuel.

The downdraft system is another where the layer of fuel is deliberately kept
thin, achieving the same goal.

When in Tasmania in 1995 we stayed in a cottage, near Richmond (?) if I am
not mistaken. The heater had been built by the owner, who clearly had an
innate feeling for woodburning. This heater drew fresh air through a series
of holes directed at the bottom of the fuelstack. The combustion gases were
led away from the fuel, resulting in good combustion.

This gave me the first impulse to take up woodburning devices again, the
second was <stoves@crest.org>

Hope you will let us share the results.

Good hunting,

Peter Verhaart
Peter Verhaart 6 McDonald St Gracemere Q 4702 Australia
Phone: +61 79 331761 Fax: +61 79 331761 or 332112
E-mail: verhaarp@janus.cqu.edu.au

 

 

From JBRAGG1245 at aol.com Tue Apr 15 18:52:36 1997
From: JBRAGG1245 at aol.com (JBRAGG1245@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: stove
Message-ID: <970415185007_572038731@emout01.mail.aol.com>

i have a great majestic that is in great shape that i want to sell....what
should i do, and do you know anyone that is interested

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Wed Apr 16 00:55:13 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: toplighting-questions to Todd, Gulland, Senf, and Verhaart
Message-ID: <v01540b04af7a0022bad4@[204.133.251.8]>

To John Todd, John Gulland, Norbert Denf, and Peter Verhaart and all other
stovers:

I mostly agree with your comments today on top lighting and clean
combustion in wood stoves. A year ago, when most of you were not on the
list I think, the list was having a lot of discussion on charcoal-making
stoves - which also uses top lighting. In that case, a pyrolysis zone
moves downward, with a small amount of primary air flowing upwads through
the wood supply (which in the work of Tom Reed and myself is usually
vertically oriented). The pyrolysis gases are then mixed with a large
amount of secondary air and combustion occurs only above the charcoal
level. In the space-heating stoves you are describing, have any of you
tried to maximize charcoal production and what is the arrangement of
primary and secondary air supplies and their relative magnitudes? I
presume that there is little desire to have charcoal in that application,
but perhaps you have seen cases where it inadvertently occured.

To John Todd - It is not clear from your remarks today that you
were referring to top loading. You talked about using a good amount of
kindling - was this intended to be on the top of the wood pile?. When top
lighting, I have found it very important to use the right diffues type of
"kindling" - paper doesn't work, because it adds too much air resistance.
My favorite is pine-needles.

I'll look at John Gulland's web page tomorrow and probably have
more questions then.

I wonder if those interested in top lighting of space heating
stoves have experience also in low-cost rural cook stoves - the area of
interest of many on this list. For instance, in the cook-stove application
it is not desirable to have the high heat that John Todd recommends - but
rather (to save fuel) to have the flame quite controllable and generally
low - after boiling has been started.

To John Gulland and Norbert - I'd like to know if you get two
copies of this - as your messages came in a little peculiarly.

Thanks in advance. Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From mheat at mha-net.org Wed Apr 16 08:09:21 1997
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: toplighting-questions to Todd, Gulland, Senf, and Verhaart
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970416070942.007a2360@mha-net.org>

At 10:00 PM 15/04/97 -0700, Ronal Larson wrote:
>
> To John Gulland and Norbert - I'd like to know if you get two
>copies of this - as your messages came in a little peculiarly.
>
Yes, I get two copies......Norbert
-----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf--------------------email:---mheat@mha-net.org
Masonry Stove Builders-------------------mheat@hookup.net
RR 5, Shawville-----------------website: http://mha-net.org/msb
Quebec J0X 2Y0------------------fax:-----819.647.6082
--------------------------------voice:---819.647.5092

 

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Wed Apr 16 12:01:01 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Prasad contribution on wood smoke
Message-ID: <v01540b03af7aa407030a@[204.133.251.17]>

For a reason that I don't understand, this came to me labeled "Bounce". I
presume it did not get to everyone and I apologize if everyone gets two
copies of this - while I try to figure out why there was a bounce.

>
>To:John Todd, Ron Larson, Pete Verhaart and other stovers
>
>From:Prasad
><prasad@tn7.phys.tue.nl>
>
>Sub: On Wood smoke
>
>Date:16 April 1997
>
>Dear stovers
>
>We are back on the smoke business. Couple of comments.
>
>The twenty minute time: it probably is required when one starts the
>operation from cold. But subsequent additions of fuel may not require this.
>
>Pete Vehaart's point that with downdraft burning a thin fuel bed is vital.
>As a matter of fact the invention of moving grates permitted coal to be
>burnt in thin fuel beds resulting in higher powers as well as cleaner
>combustion. Thicker fuel beds will invariably show a poor performance
>Unfortunately most owners of fire places would like to add fresh wood once
>in an hour or preferably less frequently. This is an invitation for large
>amount of smoke generation. See for example the article by Athreya and Emmons
>in "Woodheat for Cooking". My own "theory" is that secondary air should help.
>But experimental evidence in support of this intuitive feeling is patchy for
>this class of equipment.
>
>That one should operate the stove at full power is desirable. There is a
>but, however! If the stove is designed to keep a room warm when the
>outside temperature is 0C, what happens when the outside temperature is 10C
>(that is what it is outside my window now!)? One tries to operate at lower
>power levels with the inevitable consequence of smoke production. This is a
>principle point made by A&E.
>
>John Todd's set of instructions are reasonable, but an average fireplace
>owner will find them quite demanding.
>
>Finally, it is quite possible that John Todd is thinking of providing
>supplementary heat through wood heat for a centrally heated house. I guess
>in such a situation it is conceivable to adjust the thermostat for the
>central heating system without bothering about the power control of the wood
>burner!
>
>That is it for now.
>
>Good luck to your endeavour, John Todd!
>
>Prasad

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From CKEZAR34 at aol.com Wed Apr 16 20:05:21 1997
From: CKEZAR34 at aol.com (CKEZAR34@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank
Message-ID: <970416200351_-368056011@emout08.mail.aol.com>

I'm attending the World Bank Rural energy and Development Round Table and
have been reading some of their papers - (between speakers)

I read the World Bank Energy Issue No. 1 by Robert van der Plas (subject
above) and was surprised that the concept of a charcoal making stove was
never mentioned.

The following sentence also caught my eye: ""However, if charcoal were
produced on a sustainable basis ( with out causing deforestation) it would
be neutral to the carbon cycle; the burning of charcoal would simply release
time scale CO2 back into the air.""

If just some of the 90% energy loss in making charcoal can be recovered via a
charcoal making stove the impact can be enormous given that the Sub-Saharan
African countries experience a $1.8 billion per year charcoal market.

The FAX for the publication is 202-522-3004 contact is Rachel English should
any designers wish to comment.

Chuck Kezar
---------------------
C.A. (Chuck) Kezar, is a technology management consult at 1807 Clovermeadow
Dr. Vienna, Virginia 22182, 703-255-3325, FAX 703-255-0086,
ckezar34@aol.com

Chuck was technical staff to the U.S. House of Representatives Science
committee during the energy crises of the late 1970's and a director of
planning and evaluation during the early 1980's at the Department of Energy.
He has just retired from the world of black technology program management in
the Department of Defense.

 

 

From mtritt at thegrid.net Wed Apr 16 23:57:10 1997
From: mtritt at thegrid.net (MATTHEW TRITT)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Chambers
Message-ID: <199704170356.UAA19548@gridsat.thegrid.net>

Not exactly sure if this is the right site, but, I have a Chambers and am interested in locating a parts source (if any).  Particularly an owners manual.  I also have several O'keefe & Merrits in various stages of repair and am looking for the right place to sell them.  Thanks for the help,  Matthew Tritt.

From krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 17 00:14:13 1997
From: krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Kirk R. Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank
Message-ID: <199704170414.VAA13117@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

Chuck/What is the date of the report you mention? Whatever it is, it is
quite out of step with current understanding of charcoal kilns. See my
comment below/K

At 08:04 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I'm attending the World Bank Rural energy and Development Round Table and
>have been reading some of their papers - (between speakers)
>
>I read the World Bank Energy Issue No. 1 by Robert van der Plas (subject
>above) and was surprised that the concept of a charcoal making stove was
>never mentioned.
>
>The following sentence also caught my eye: ""However, if charcoal were
>produced on a sustainable basis ( with out causing deforestation) it would
>be neutral to the carbon cycle; the burning of charcoal would simply release
>time scale CO2 back into the air.""

This is manifestly untrue in traditional charcoal kilns where a large
fraction of the carbon is released as PIC (products of incomplete
combustion), most of which have greater global warming potentials than CO2
(such as methane which has a GWP more than 20 times than of CO2). Our data
from measurements in Thai kilns, which we are just now putting into final
shape, indicate that the charcoal fuel cycle is one of the world's worst
(even compared to fossil fuels) in terms of net greenhouse emissions, even
if the wood is harvested renewably.

To be greenhouse neutral a biomass fuel cycle has to have not one but two
critical characteristics:

1. Renewable harvesting and
2. Good combustion efficiency, i.e., relatively little production of PIC.

 

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Thu Apr 17 03:00:01 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank (Comment from Kirk Smith)
Message-ID: <v01540b05af7b711a4607@[204.133.251.17]>

Stovers - This is to add a little to this exchange between Chuck Kezar and
Kirk Smith as I know and admire both of them.

1. I want to thank Chuck for bringing charcoal-making stoves back into
discussion. I think Chuck has seen one operate in my backyard (we
certainly have talked about this technology a lot). This I think explains
why he was surprised that a World Bank report on charcoal making never
mentioned making charcoal in a fully acceptable manner. The problem is
that such a stove still needs development and it certainly will benefit if
some of the readers on this list will build one and try it. I will be glad
to send instructions to anyone interested. The recent comments on this
list about the importance of top down firing is right in line with this
type of stove.

2. I have recently been looking at methane contributions to global warming
and can support Kirk's concerns. What surprised me most because I have
never seen it in print is the rate of increase of methane in the
atmosphere. During the roughly century-long period that CO2 has increased
by about 30%, methane in the atmosphere has more than doubled. Methane's
present contribution to global warming is said to be about 1/2 to 2/3 that
of CO2, but at its much faster rate of growth - it won't be many years that
methand has equal contribution - and then is the largest effect. In
developing countries, there seems no doubt that cooking and charcoal making
is by far the biggest contributor to global warming - as Kirk has said.

3. The important point to me is that there is a known technology that has
promise for solving both problems (and the equally important problem of
women's respiratory illnesses as well) at one time. And almost no one is
working on the problem.

Regards Ron

>Chuck/What is the date of the report you mention? Whatever it is, it is
>quite out of step with current understanding of charcoal kilns. See my
>comment below/K
>
>At 08:04 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
>>I'm attending the World Bank Rural energy and Development Round Table and
>>have been reading some of their papers - (between speakers)
>>
>>I read the World Bank Energy Issue No. 1 by Robert van der Plas (subject
>>above) and was surprised that the concept of a charcoal making stove was
>>never mentioned.
>>
>>The following sentence also caught my eye: ""However, if charcoal were
>>produced on a sustainable basis ( with out causing deforestation) it would
>>be neutral to the carbon cycle; the burning of charcoal would simply release
>>time scale CO2 back into the air.""
>
>This is manifestly untrue in traditional charcoal kilns where a large
>fraction of the carbon is released as PIC (products of incomplete
>combustion), most of which have greater global warming potentials than CO2
>(such as methane which has a GWP more than 20 times than of CO2). Our data
>from measurements in Thai kilns, which we are just now putting into final
>shape, indicate that the charcoal fuel cycle is one of the world's worst
>(even compared to fossil fuels) in terms of net greenhouse emissions, even
>if the wood is harvested renewably.
>
>To be greenhouse neutral a biomass fuel cycle has to have not one but two
>critical characteristics:
>
>1. Renewable harvesting and
>2. Good combustion efficiency, i.e., relatively little production of PIC.

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Thu Apr 17 09:27:07 1997
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: toplighting-questions to Todd, Gulland, Senf, and Verhaart
Message-ID: <199704170924_MC2-1475-7FB1@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed 303 278 0558 V Colorado School of Mines
1810 Smith Rd., 303 278 0560 FX Department Chem Eng
Golden, CO 80401 ReedTB@Compuserve.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dear Ron and Stovers/charcoalers:

Ron didn't mention that when burning "top down" in our stoves, maximum
charcoal production occurs just as the last pyrolysis reaches the grate at
the bottom of the fuel pile.

If we forget to close the stove up tight, the air continues to enter and
the charcoal burns slowly in a "bottom up" reaction. Fortunately,
convection keeps the air supply rate low and it takes several hours to burn
up the charcoal. With a greater air supply we could melt the grate and the
stove.

I presume something similar happens, but not so visibly in "top down"
fireplaces - volatiles burn out as the fire "reaches" down for more fuel.
The surrounding layer of pyrolysis gases prevent charcoal oxidation. When
the volatiles are gone, the charcoal burns "bottom up" in the incoming air.

I'd be interested in your comments.

TOM REED

 

From shell at wolfenet.com Thu Apr 17 13:05:53 1997
From: shell at wolfenet.com (Ronald Kent)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank (Comment from Kirk Smith
In-Reply-To: <v01540b05af7b711a4607@[204.133.251.17]>
Message-ID: <199704171706.KAA20774@wolfenet.com>

Hello from a lurker in Tacoma Washington
I have been making charcoal for several months with a 30 gallon drum,
refractory lined and with a controlable air inlet at the bottom.
The source wood is dry 2-3" by 28" alder as found along Puget Sound.
The quality is good ( large pieces) easily reignited. The current use is
cooking fuel.
I'd be pleased to learn more about your stove.
Ronald Kent

> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:05:04 -0700
> To: stoves@crest.org
> From: larcon@lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
> Subject: Re: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank (Comment from Kirk Smith)
> Reply-to: stoves@crest.org

> Stovers - This is to add a little to this exchange between Chuck Kezar
> and Kirk Smith as I know and admire both of them.
>
> 1. I want to thank Chuck for bringing charcoal-making stoves back into
> discussion. I think Chuck has seen one operate in my backyard (we
> certainly have talked about this technology a lot). This I think
> explains why he was surprised that a World Bank report on charcoal making
> never mentioned making charcoal in a fully acceptable manner. The
> problem is that such a stove still needs development and it certainly
> will benefit if some of the readers on this list will build one and try
> it. I will be glad to send instructions to anyone interested. The
> recent comments on this list about the importance of top down firing is
> right in line with this type of stove.
>
> 2. I have recently been looking at methane contributions to global
> warming and can support Kirk's concerns. What surprised me most because
> I have never seen it in print is the rate of increase of methane in the
> atmosphere. During the roughly century-long period that CO2 has
> increased by about 30%, methane in the atmosphere has more than doubled.
> Methane's present contribution to global warming is said to be about 1/2
> to 2/3 that of CO2, but at its much faster rate of growth - it won't be
> many years that methand has equal contribution - and then is the largest
> effect. In developing countries, there seems no doubt that cooking and
> charcoal making is by far the biggest contributor to global warming - as
> Kirk has said.
>
>
> 3. The important point to me is that there is a known technology that
> has promise for solving both problems (and the equally important problem
> of women's respiratory illnesses as well) at one time. And almost no one
> is working on the problem.
>
> Regards Ron
>
> >Chuck/What is the date of the report you mention? Whatever it is, it is
> >quite out of step with current understanding of charcoal kilns. See my
> >comment below/K
> >
> >At 08:04 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:
> >>I'm attending the World Bank Rural energy and Development Round Table and
> >>have been reading some of their papers - (between speakers)
> >>
> >>I read the World Bank Energy Issue No. 1 by Robert van der Plas (subject
> >>above) and was surprised that the concept of a charcoal making stove was
> >>never mentioned.
> >>
> >>The following sentence also caught my eye: ""However, if charcoal were
> >>produced on a sustainable basis ( with out causing deforestation) it would
> >>be neutral to the carbon cycle; the burning of charcoal would simply release
> >>time scale CO2 back into the air.""
> >
> >This is manifestly untrue in traditional charcoal kilns where a large
> >fraction of the carbon is released as PIC (products of incomplete
> >combustion), most of which have greater global warming potentials than CO2
> >(such as methane which has a GWP more than 20 times than of CO2). Our data
> >from measurements in Thai kilns, which we are just now putting into final
> >shape, indicate that the charcoal fuel cycle is one of the world's worst
> >(even compared to fossil fuels) in terms of net greenhouse emissions, even
> >if the wood is harvested renewably.
> >
> >To be greenhouse neutral a biomass fuel cycle has to have not one but two
> >critical characteristics:
> >
> >1. Renewable harvesting and
> >2. Good combustion efficiency, i.e., relatively little production of PIC.
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401
> 303/526-9629
>
>

 

From verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au Thu Apr 17 15:36:46 1997
From: verhaarp at janus.cqu.edu.au (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank (Comment from Kirk Smith)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970417193639.006ab250@janus.cqu.edu.au>

Dear Ron,

At 00:05 17/04/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Stovers - This is to add a little to this exchange between Chuck Kezar and
>Kirk Smith as I know and admire both of them.

Click go the shears
> The problem is that such a stove still needs development and it certainly
will benefit if
>some of the readers on this list will build one and try it. I will be glad
>to send instructions to anyone interested. .........

Yes please, but don't expect any replies soon as we are taking off to the
N.T. in fifteen minutes, before sunup.

Cheers,

Piet Verhaart
Peter Verhaart 6 McDonald St Gracemere Q 4702 Australia
Phone: +61 79 331761 Fax: +61 79 331761 or 332112
E-mail: verhaarp@janus.cqu.edu.au

 

 

From CKEZAR34 at aol.com Thu Apr 17 20:53:38 1997
From: CKEZAR34 at aol.com (CKEZAR34@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Methane
Message-ID: <970417205131_-2036824767@emout17.mail.aol.com>

RE: Ron Larson's comment on Methane

The latest Popular Science contains another concern regarding Methane leaking
into the atmosphere. From under the sea.

c Kezar

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Fri Apr 18 01:05:12 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
Message-ID: <v01540b01af7c9e0d21eb@[204.133.251.9]>

Ronald -
The concern of Kirk Smith and myself is that most charcoal making
releases gases much worse (in global warming sense) than CO2 into the
atmosphere. I wonder if you are (or could be) flaring those gases
(creating CO2), rather than release them unflared?
If the gases are flared, do you or could you capture any of the
waste heat generated?
Are you top or bottom lighting this charcoal - maker?
Can you estimate your charcoal production efficiency (by weight)

Per your request, I am sending separately information on the
developmental charcoal-making cookstove - sent to some on the list about 15
months ago.

Ron

>Hello from a lurker in Tacoma Washington
>I have been making charcoal for several months with a 30 gallon drum,
>refractory lined and with a controlable air inlet at the bottom.
>The source wood is dry 2-3" by 28" alder as found along Puget Sound.
>The quality is good ( large pieces) easily reignited. The current use is
>cooking fuel.
>I'd be pleased to learn more about your stove.
>Ronald Kent
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:05:04 -0700
>> To: stoves@crest.org
>> From: larcon@lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>> Subject: Re: Burning Charcoal Issues- World Bank (Comment from
>>Kirk Smith)

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From hmrajabu at ucdavis.edu Fri Apr 18 01:44:22 1997
From: hmrajabu at ucdavis.edu (HMRajabu)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: Methane
In-Reply-To: <970417205131_-2036824767@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970417223540.15937B-100000@rocky.ucdavis.edu>

I received a message from Tanzania some two weeks ago that a
strong smell of natural gas was experienced for a couple of days
everywhere at the coastal city of Dar es Salaam. The source was not found.

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997 CKEZAR34@aol.com wrote:

> RE: Ron Larson's comment on Methane
>
> The latest Popular Science contains another concern regarding Methane leaking
> into the atmosphere. From under the sea.
>
> c Kezar
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hassan M Rajabu.

 

 

From shell at wolfenet.com Fri Apr 18 12:50:19 1997
From: shell at wolfenet.com (Ronald Kent)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01af7c9e0d21eb@[204.133.251.9]>
Message-ID: <199704181651.JAA18527@wolfenet.com>

Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:10:07 -0700
To: stoves@crest.org
From: larcon@lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Subject: Re: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
Reply-to: stoves@crest.org

Ronald -
I wonder if you are (or could be) flaring those gases
YES I AM CURRENTLY FLARING THESE WITHOUT RECUPERATING THE HEAT.
THE NEXT STEP IS TO USE THEM IN A TWO CHAMBER SYSTEM OR WITH A COUNTERFLOW
HEAT EXCHANGER TO PREHEAT THE COMBUSTION AIR, OR TO PRE HEAT THE WOOD
CHARGE.
(creating CO2), rather than release them unflared?
IT IS OF COURSE ESSENTIAL TO FULLY OXIDIZE THE FORMALDEHYDE, ACETIC ACID ,
METHANOL AND OTHER PYROLYSYIS PRODUCTS. If the gases are flared, do
you or could you capture any of the waste heat generated?

Are you top or bottom lighting this charcoal - maker?
THE SMALL WOOD USED AS KINDLING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RETORT QUICKLY
CREATES AN UPDRAFT. THE FIRST VAPORS ARE CLEARLY WATER VAPOR AS DRYING
BEGINS. AS SOON AS THIS COLORS, AIR IS REDUCED. 3/4" AIR INLET
Can you estimate your
YIELD ~ 25+% BASED ON DRY WEIGHT OF FUEL. THIS NEEDS TO BE REFINED FURTHER
AS IT IS HARD TO PREVENT UNDER CARBONISATION OF THE LARGEST
DIAMETER WOOD WITHOUT CONSUMING THE SMALLER BITS OF CHARCOAL.

charcoal production efficiency (by weight)

Per your request, I am sending separately information on the
developmental charcoal-making cookstove - sent to some on the list about 15
months ago.

MANY THANKS,
Ronald Kent

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Fri Apr 18 22:38:09 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:06 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent - #2
Message-ID: <v01540b06af7d622c4a90@[204.133.251.7]>

Ronald - A few more questions based on your responses.

1. About how long does the charcoal making take? (In a 55 gallon
container? - approximately what is the input weight? What is the
refractory type and thickness?)
2. Can you describe the flaring? Is there a small chimney? What height
and diameter? Multiple flares?
3. What is your background and motivation for this development activity?
I am delighted to see your emphasis on waste heat utilization and hope that
others on this list can assist.
4. I think there may be a market for the waste heat in brickmaking,
bakeries, and clay product firing (maybe hospitals, restaurants?) in
developing countries. There are a lot of people on this list who have
expressed concern about the waste in charcoal-making, so we all will be
wishing you luck in finding a way to use those waste gases.
5. Do you have any capability to measure the exhaust gases? If so, what
results? Kirk Smith has recently requested designs for his test program -
and has noted how harmful most charcoal making is.

Thanks for your very complete responses to my first questions - you are
working on a very important problem.

Ron

>Ronald -
> I wonder if you are (or could be) flaring those gases
>YES I AM CURRENTLY FLARING THESE WITHOUT RECUPERATING THE HEAT.
>THE NEXT STEP IS TO USE THEM IN A TWO CHAMBER SYSTEM OR WITH A COUNTERFLOW
>HEAT EXCHANGER TO PREHEAT THE COMBUSTION AIR, OR TO PRE HEAT THE WOOD
>CHARGE.
> (creating CO2), rather than release them unflared?
>IT IS OF COURSE ESSENTIAL TO FULLY OXIDIZE THE FORMALDEHYDE, ACETIC ACID ,
>METHANOL AND OTHER PYROLYSYIS PRODUCTS. If the gases are flared, do
>you or could you capture any of the waste heat generated?
>
> Are you top or bottom lighting this charcoal - maker?
>THE SMALL WOOD USED AS KINDLING AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RETORT QUICKLY
>CREATES AN UPDRAFT. THE FIRST VAPORS ARE CLEARLY WATER VAPOR AS DRYING
>BEGINS. AS SOON AS THIS COLORS, AIR IS REDUCED. 3/4" AIR INLET
> Can you estimate your
>YIELD ~ 25+% BASED ON DRY WEIGHT OF FUEL. THIS NEEDS TO BE REFINED FURTHER
>AS IT IS HARD TO PREVENT UNDER CARBONISATION OF THE LARGEST
>DIAMETER WOOD WITHOUT CONSUMING THE SMALLER BITS OF CHARCOAL.
>
>charcoal production efficiency (by weight)
>
> Per your request, I am sending separately information on the
>developmental charcoal-making cookstove - sent to some on the list about 15
>months ago.
>
>MANY THANKS,
>Ronald Kent "Ronald Kent" <shell@wolfenet.com>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629

 

 

From REEDTB at compuserve.com Sat Apr 19 09:49:44 1997
From: REEDTB at compuserve.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
Message-ID: <199704190948_MC2-1491-C05A@compuserve.com>

Thomas B. Reed 303 278 0558 V Colorado School of Mines
1810 Smith Rd., 303 278 0560 FX Department Chem Eng
Golden, CO 80401 ReedTB@Compuserve.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stovers:

I got the interesting message:

>Hello from a lurker in Tacoma Washington
>I have been making charcoal for several months with a 30 gallon drum,
>refractory lined and with a controlable air inlet at the bottom.
>The source wood is dry 2-3" by 28" alder as found along Puget Sound.
>The quality is good ( large pieces) easily reignited. The current use is
>cooking fuel.
>I'd be pleased to learn more about your stove.
>Ronald Kent

I would like to reply, but don't have address for Kent, so have to send it
back up the line and bother many others. Please in future sign your
letters and put on some kind of letterhead, preferably at the top, so I
don't have to go to the bottom to find out who is writing.

Dear Ron Kent:

I would like to hear more about your 30 gallon drum experiment. Sounds
like you are lighting it at the bottom in the "classical" updraft mode
which includes an early stage where mostly incombustible stinky steam
exits, followed by a combustible stage where you can burn off the
volatiles.

I hope you will try a "top down" (inverted downdraft) mode in which each
layer ignites that below it and so drying and pyrolysis occur
simultaneously and the gas is combustible from beginning to end. Also
makes more charcoal, since the internal combustion provides the heat of
pyrolysis and drying rather than the charcoal at the bottom.

Please try and report back to me. What do you do with the charcoal?

Yours, TOM REED

 

 

From shell at wolfenet.com Sat Apr 19 13:26:55 1997
From: shell at wolfenet.com (Ronald Kent)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
In-Reply-To: <199704190948_MC2-1491-C05A@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <199704191727.KAA03051@wolfenet.com>

 

SORRY , I'M SHELL@WOLFENET.COM no caps

I would like to hear more about your 30 gallon drum experiment. Sounds
like you are lighting it at the bottom in the "classical" updraft mode
which includes an early stage where mostly incombustible stinky steam
exits, followed by a combustible stage where you can burn off the
volatiles.

YES BUT THE AIR INLET IS SMALL(2"), AND THE BOTTOM HAS <3/4" WOOD,
I USE A PROPANE TORCH TO ESTABLISH THE FIRE AND THEN THE COMBUSTION OF THE
SMALL WOOD SERVES TO DRY THE 2-3" X 26" vertically stacked wood.
The walls of the drum are protected with stacked common brick for the
first foot or so. The exit gases are white then blue then minimal.
Presumably moisture followed by organics, then mostly complete combustion.
The drum lid is on with a 3/4" air gap at one end. As the "blue" passes
the inlet is valved down to 3/4" . After "some time " the lid is
replaced. and the valve s closed. Cooling overnite allows the charcoal to
be recovered.

I hope you will try a "top down" (inverted downdraft) mode in which each
layer ignites that below it and so drying and pyrolysis occur
simultaneously and the gas is combustible from beginning to end. Also
makes more charcoal, since the internal combustion provides the heat of
pyrolysis and drying rather than the charcoal at the bottom.
I HAVE SOME PROBLEM ENVISIONING THE AIRFLOW IN THIS CASE, BUT THE HEAT
RECUPERATION IS APPEALING. PLEASE SUGGEST HOW YOU COULD SEE THIS
APPROACH FOR THE DRUM CONFIGURATION.

Please try and report back to me. What do you do with the charcoal?

THE ALDERWOOD CHARCOAL IS WELL RECEIVED FOR COOKING.
MANY large pieces which easily ignite and provide minimal smoke yet some
flavor and a long cooking time for roasts and chinese (water) oven.

Warmly,
Ron(ald) Kent shell@wolfenet.com

 

 

 

From ofb-inc. at ix.netcom.com Sun Apr 20 05:09:41 1997
From: ofb-inc. at ix.netcom.com (Gregory C. Brown)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
Message-ID: <199704200909.EAA22943@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>

Dera Ronald,
I have been following your messages to the "stoves" group, and have
some questions for you. I have a portable metal kiln (10 cu. yd.
capacity) which was developed thru a World Bank Project in India. We
are working on "recycling" the Melaleuca Trees (here in South Florida),
a hardwood species brought from Australia around 1905. This tree has
been declared an immense environmental problem, to the Everglades.
The kiln is cylindical in shape, measuring 7ft. in dia. and stands
about 7ft. tall. It rests directly on the ground and is top loaded.
there are (four) five in. stacks which emit smoke for 16 to 24 hrs. of
the total cycle which takes 48 hrs. The yield is 20% to 25% depending
on how it is stacked. In order to satisfy the EPA and DEP we must come
up with an effective method of dealing with the smoke emissions. We
have considered using a cyclone with baghouse, but have rejected that
due to the nature of the smoke. What makes the most sense is to
pyrolyse (Flare?) the smoke. Do you have any suggestions? How do you
"Flare" your emissions"? Whatever solution we use must be portable, as
our kilns are. Do you think that manifolding all the smoke into one
combustion chamber (with a blower), or use four (one for each stack)
smaller chambers? Can you guess the approximate size and cmpositin of
such a chamber(s)? Using propane burner with igniter? Use riser
sleeves (cast iron) for combustion chamber(s)? What size? Lots of
questions...looking for some answers...and partners. We have over one
million acres to trees to work on!
Some future uses of the waste heat could be to help dry wood for
processing, generate steam for possible electricity generation, etc.
Hope this finds you well and smiling...Greg Brown

 

From bhatta at ait.ac.th Sun Apr 20 21:00:08 1997
From: bhatta at ait.ac.th (Prof. S.C. Bhattacharya)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
In-Reply-To: <199704200909.EAA22943@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.94.970421075105.1062A-100000@alphaserv.ait.ac.th>

 

This is in response to the message of Mr. Gregory C. Brown.

Flaring of gas in not convenient in batch kilns, while it is common in
case of continuous charcoal making retorts. (One reason is that the gas
contains a lot of moisture and is not combustible in the initial stages of
operation.)

When a number of batch devices are in operation, with phasing their
operation and interconnecting their flues it should be possible to flare
the gas and reduce emissions drastically. However this would involve
significant design changes. Carbo-gas reort is one such design. NRI of
England has also developed a design for carbonizing coconut shells.

S.C. Bhattacharya

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
S. C. Bhattacharya Voice : (66-2) 524 5403 (Off)
Professor 524 5913 (Res)
Asian Institute of Technology Fax : (66-2) 524 5439
GPO Box 2754, Bangkok 10501 516 2126
Thailand e-mail: bhatta@ait.ac.th
-------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Gregory C. Brown wrote:

> Dera Ronald,
> I have been following your messages to the "stoves" group, and have
> some questions for you. I have a portable metal kiln (10 cu. yd.
> capacity) which was developed thru a World Bank Project in India. We
> are working on "recycling" the Melaleuca Trees (here in South Florida),
> a hardwood species brought from Australia around 1905. This tree has
> been declared an immense environmental problem, to the Everglades.
> The kiln is cylindical in shape, measuring 7ft. in dia. and stands
> about 7ft. tall. It rests directly on the ground and is top loaded.
> there are (four) five in. stacks which emit smoke for 16 to 24 hrs. of
> the total cycle which takes 48 hrs. The yield is 20% to 25% depending
> on how it is stacked. In order to satisfy the EPA and DEP we must come
> up with an effective method of dealing with the smoke emissions. We
> have considered using a cyclone with baghouse, but have rejected that
> due to the nature of the smoke. What makes the most sense is to
> pyrolyse (Flare?) the smoke. Do you have any suggestions? How do you
> "Flare" your emissions"? Whatever solution we use must be portable, as
> our kilns are. Do you think that manifolding all the smoke into one
> combustion chamber (with a blower), or use four (one for each stack)
> smaller chambers? Can you guess the approximate size and cmpositin of
> such a chamber(s)? Using propane burner with igniter? Use riser
> sleeves (cast iron) for combustion chamber(s)? What size? Lots of
> questions...looking for some answers...and partners. We have over one
> million acres to trees to work on!
> Some future uses of the waste heat could be to help dry wood for
> processing, generate steam for possible electricity generation, etc.
> Hope this finds you well and smiling....Greg Brown
>

 

 

From rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni Sun Apr 20 22:08:16 1997
From: rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: Woodenergy latinamerica network
Message-ID: <199704202009.UAA00944@ns.sdnnic.org.ni>

 

>>A new network list via internet has been launched. It is the Latinamerica
woodenergy network discussion group. It will be focus mostly in Latinamerica
issues, but participants from other regions are encouraged to participate.
The issues of discussion are at the begining broad and includes biomass
production, trade, consumption by both industrial and household, power
generation, institutional development, strategicy policies, and any other in
the field. The working languages will be both Portuguese and Spanish.
>>
>>To subscribe, please write to : <majordomo@sdnnic.org.ni> with only the
following message:
>>
>> subscribe dendroenergia <your EM address>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0555
PROLENA(Nicaragua)
Apartado Postal C-321 Managua Nicaragua
E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Mon Apr 21 21:14:33 1997
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: List Sponsors Needed
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970421181135.00f87ea0@mail.teleport.com>

Bioenergy List Members,

It's time for sponsors to come forward to support our Bioenergy lists. We
need sponsors for each of the bioenergy lists($50/mo or $600/yr/list):
bioenergy, gasification, stoves, digestion, and bioconversion.

I think we can attach a sponsor's tag line to messages.

If you want to sponsor a list please send emial to me (tmiles@teleport.com)
with:

Name of List to Sponsor (bioenergy, gasification, stoves, digestion,
bioconversion)
Sponsor Name
Sponsor web address or email
Contact Name
Contact Email
Sponsor Billing Address
Sponsor Tel
Sponsor Fax

CREST has carried us for free for three years. Now it's time for us to
support our chat with contributions.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Tom Miles, Jr. Thomas R. Miles
tmiles@teleport.com Consulting Design Engineer
http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ 5475 SW Arrowwood Lane
Tel (503) 292-0107 Fax (503) 292-2919 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225-1353

 

From ofb-inc. at ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 22 03:07:40 1997
From: ofb-inc. at ix.netcom.com (Gregory C. Brown)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: charcoal manufacture by Ronald Kent
Message-ID: <199704220707.CAA03389@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>

You wrote:
>
>
>This is in response to the message of Mr. Gregory C. Brown.
>
>Flaring of gas in not convenient in batch kilns, while it is common in
>case of continuous charcoal making retorts. (One reason is that the
gas
>contains a lot of moisture and is not combustible in the initial
stages of
>operation.)
>
>When a number of batch devices are in operation, with phasing their
>operation and interconnecting their flues it should be possible to
flare
>the gas and reduce emissions drastically. However this would involve
>significant design changes. Carbo-gas reort is one such design. NRI of
>England has also developed a design for carbonizing coconut shells.
>
>S.C. Bhattacharya
>
>
Dear Professor,
Thank you for responding. When we "burn" our next batch ( the wood
is drying) we plan to start the process by top lighting the charge, as
has been pointed out from so many on the "stoves" network. This will
greatly reduce or eliminate the initial period of much steam being
created which is customary with lighting the charge from the bottom,
and should give us combustible smoke almost from the beginning. We
plan to ignite some of the previously produced charcoal in a seperate
container (5kg.) and insert the glowing coals into the top of the
charge, thus the removal of moisture will be occuring as the charge is
spreading downward.
Would like some details on the carbo-gas retort design you mention,
if possible?
Cheerio>...Greg
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>S. C. Bhattacharya Voice : (66-2) 524 5403 (Off)
>Professor 524 5913 (Res)
>Asian Institute of Technology Fax : (66-2) 524 5439
>GPO Box 2754, Bangkok 10501 516 2126
>Thailand e-mail: bhatta@ait.ac.th
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Gregory C. Brown wrote:
>
>> Dera Ronald,
>> I have been following your messages to the "stoves" group, and
have
>> some questions for you. I have a portable metal kiln (10 cu. yd.
>> capacity) which was developed thru a World Bank Project in India.
We
>> are working on "recycling" the Melaleuca Trees (here in South
Florida),
>> a hardwood species brought from Australia around 1905. This tree
has
>> been declared an immense environmental problem, to the Everglades.
>> The kiln is cylindical in shape, measuring 7ft. in dia. and
stands
>> about 7ft. tall. It rests directly on the ground and is top loaded.

>> there are (four) five in. stacks which emit smoke for 16 to 24 hrs.
of
>> the total cycle which takes 48 hrs. The yield is 20% to 25%
depending
>> on how it is stacked. In order to satisfy the EPA and DEP we must
come
>> up with an effective method of dealing with the smoke emissions. We

>> have considered using a cyclone with baghouse, but have rejected
that
>> due to the nature of the smoke. What makes the most sense is to
>> pyrolyse (Flare?) the smoke. Do you have any suggestions? How do
you
>> "Flare" your emissions"? Whatever solution we use must be portable,
as
>> our kilns are. Do you think that manifolding all the smoke into one

>> combustion chamber (with a blower), or use four (one for each stack)

>> smaller chambers? Can you guess the approximate size and cmpositin
of
>> such a chamber(s)? Using propane burner with igniter? Use riser
>> sleeves (cast iron) for combustion chamber(s)? What size? Lots of
>> questions...looking for some answers...and partners. We have over
one
>> million acres to trees to work on!
>> Some future uses of the waste heat could be to help dry wood for

>> processing, generate steam for possible electricity generation, etc.
>> Hope this finds you well and smiling....Greg Brown
>>
>
>

 

 

From intensmed at turk.net Tue Apr 22 12:36:39 1997
From: intensmed at turk.net (Bora Aykac)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: producing charcoal
Message-ID: <335CE916.4DB@turk.net>

We are interested in producing charcoal and we need information to
establish a plant.
- We would like to use Pyrolsis Method.

Company: Interkarbon
Company Fax: +90 326 614 2456
Company Tel: +90 326 614 3203
Person to contact: Nezih Zelluh.

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Wed Apr 23 08:01:28 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: more on charcoal production and use
Message-ID: <v01540b01af837a2eb045@[204.133.251.21]>

Stovers:

About a week ago, Chuck Kezar reported to this list that he felt a world
bank paper had unfortunately left out the concept of charcoal-making cook
stoves. Kirk Smith took exception to another part of the paper - on
methane production from charcoal making. I followed up off line with the
author of the paper and find that it is quite good in total. I now think
that Kezar and Smith and the author are all correct; the paper came out in
1995 when no one was talking about charcoal-making stoves and I believe the
author is aware of methane problems.

I believe that all four of us and most on this list will agree that
charcoal-making and using need improvement. The issue is how.

The World Bank paper's author is now on line with us. I recommend
the paper to all of you - which can be seen at:

http://www.worldbank.org/html/fpd/energy/energynotes/energy01.html

Any more comments on this paper?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401
303/526-9629
FAX same with warning

 

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Wed Apr 23 10:35:59 1997
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: List Sponsors Needed - Clarification
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970423073431.00ab64e0@mail.teleport.com>

Bioenergy List Members,

A point of clarification: we are not asking for or requiring subscriptions
to the bioenergy lists. This has been and will continue to be a largely
volunteer effort but there are fixed network and service fees to pay. So we
are asking for sponsors and contributors. You are welcome to contribute
individually or as a sponsor. Companies and individuals who sponsor lists
will be recognized/promoted on the list and WWW archives.

Each list costs us $50/mo or $600 per year. The five lists (including a new
bioconversion list) add up to $3000 per year.

Sponsor a list for a month or a year. We have received one generous
individual pledge of $100 for the bioenergy lists. If less than 10% of list
subscribers made similar contributions each year we would ensure the
continuation of the lists.

Tom

 

=======
Bioenergy List Members,

It's time for sponsors to come forward to support our Bioenergy lists. We
need sponsors for each of the bioenergy lists($50/mo or $600/yr/list):
bioenergy, gasification, stoves, digestion, and bioconversion.

I think we can attach a sponsor's tag line to messages.

If you want to sponsor a list please send emial to me (tmiles@teleport.com)
with:

Name of List to Sponsor (bioenergy, gasification, stoves, digestion,
bioconversion)
Sponsor Name
Sponsor web address or email
Contact Name
Contact Email
Sponsor Billing Address
Sponsor Tel
Sponsor Fax

CREST has carried us for free for three years. Now it's time for us to
support our chat with contributions.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Tom Miles, Jr. Thomas R. Miles
tmiles@teleport.com Consulting Design
Engineer
http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ 5475 SW Arrowwood Lane
Tel (503) 292-0107 Fax (503) 292-2919 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225-1353

 

From LCHOCHMAN at worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 24 21:47:15 1997
From: LCHOCHMAN at worldnet.att.net (Lisa Hochman)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Admin request: /^subject:\s*help\b/i
Message-ID: <19970425014638.AAA17446@LOCALNAME>

http://www.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/msg00559.html
Is anyone interested in buying a 1930's circa magic chef gas range in
excellent condition?

 

 

From philip at toj.com Sat Apr 26 14:18:28 1997
From: philip at toj.com (Sally Rennalls)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: Caledonia Modern Dover Stove
Message-ID: <3362469A.92C@toj.com>

Hi,

Writing from Jamaica to ask for any information on an antique caledonia stove. Where to
get parts, and if iron paste is appropriate to use on it.

Hope someone knows.

Thanks,

Sally and Philip Rennalls

 

From tmiles at teleport.com Sun Apr 27 15:31:02 1997
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: List Sponsors Needed
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970427122522.006fbb3c@mail.teleport.com>

Bioenergy List Members

We need to raise $3000 in bioenergy list sponsorships this year. So far we
have $1500 in pledges of $100-$600 from a few generous and interested
individuals and organizations.

I hope that you are willing to contribute. It costs $50/month (or
$600/year) to host each list. We hope to create a bioconversion list in
addition to the bioenergy, stoves, gasification and digestion lists that we
now have.

Please send me a note if you will contribute.

(This reminds me a little of the local "listener supported" radio and TV
stations.)

Regards,

Tom Miles, Jr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Tom Miles, Jr. Thomas R. Miles
tmiles@teleport.com Consulting Design Engineer
http://www.teleport.com/~tmiles/ 5475 SW Arrowwood Lane
Tel (503) 292-0107 Fax (503) 292-2919 Portland, Oregon, USA 97225-1353

 

From larcon at lynx.sni.net Mon Apr 28 00:03:52 1997
From: larcon at lynx.sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:07 2004
Subject: HELP with the health impacts of wood smoke
Message-ID: <v01540b02af89a4ddaf80@[204.133.251.7]>

From mheat at mha-net.org Mon Apr 28 07:20:56 1997
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:08 2004
Subject: HELP with the health impacts of wood smoke
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970428062105.007c0100@mha-net.org>

There is an extensive bibliography of woodsmoke health effects located at
http://www.imaja.com/imaja/bi/BurningIssues.html
-----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf--------------------email:---mheat@mha-net.org
Masonry Stove Builders-------------------mheat@hookup.net
RR 5, Shawville-----------------website: http://mha-net.org/msb
Quebec J0X 2Y0------------------fax:-----819.647.6082
--------------------------------voice:---819.647.5092

 

 

 

From krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 28 11:10:10 1997
From: krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Kirk R. Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:08 2004
Subject: HELP with the health impacts of wood smoke
Message-ID: <199704281509.IAA06601@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

This covers little of the Third World material, unfortunately/K

At 06:21 AM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote:
>There is an extensive bibliography of woodsmoke health effects located at
>http://www.imaja.com/imaja/bi/BurningIssues.html
>-----------------------------------------
>Norbert Senf--------------------email:---mheat@mha-net.org
>Masonry Stove Builders-------------------mheat@hookup.net
>RR 5, Shawville-----------------website: http://mha-net.org/msb
>Quebec J0X 2Y0------------------fax:-----819.647.6082
>--------------------------------voice:---819.647.5092
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

 

From E.Moerman at stud.tue.nl Tue Apr 29 09:29:23 1997
From: E.Moerman at stud.tue.nl (E.Moerman)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:35:08 2004
Subject: Fw: HELP with the health impacts of wood smoke
Message-ID: <12609.s335192@popserver.tue.nl>

The following message was not properly sent to all members of the list.
Hereby another copy in the hope that things work this time.

Etienne

---------
>Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:08:12
>To: STOVES
>From: Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda <rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
>Subject: HELP with the health impacts of wood smoke
>
>Dear stovers: We are selling to the government of Nicaragua the idea of an
integrated fuelwood project for its capital Managua. Managua consumes about
1/2 milion tons of fuelwood per year, almost 100% from unsustainable
sources, e.g., from deforestation. Also, over 100,000 traditional woodstoves
are used by its urban population, mostly open or semi-open fires without
chimney. Our concept is to promote reforestation around the capital, giving
credit to farmers to invest in reforestation and free acess(no tax) to the
capital fuelwood market, increase taxes to the unsustainable fuelwood, and
at the same time motivate and facilitate credit (about US$ 40.00) to the
urban families to acquire a new improved woodstove (close fire and chimney).
>
>We have suscefull motivated the ministry of forestry and energy so far for
this project, but now we will meet the ministry of health later this week in
order to motivate them to support this project as well. We know that the
health ministry is not well aware of the detailes of the negatives impacts
of woodsmoke. What we know so far is:
>
>1. Accute Respiratory Infections (IRA) is the main cause of death of young
children in Nicaragua, however we don't know how much of the IRA could be
caused by woodsmoke. Does anyone has an idea from other countries, of how
woodsmoke can cause IRA and how serious it is?
>
>2. In general we know that a women that is exposed from 4 to 5 hours of
woodsmoke per day, has the same chance of getting lung cancer as womem that
smoke 2 cigarettes packets per day. Does anyone has further information on
that ?
>
>3. from studies done in Guatemala, pregnant women exposed to woodsmoke, has
a chance of having a new born baby with 70 grs smaller in weight than no
exposed mother.
>
>
>We would like to have from you more suggestions of potential health impacts
of woodsmoke, so we can convince the health ministry of Nicaragua of the
importance of their support to our proposal.
>
>Thanks in advance for any response.
>
>Rogerio Miranda
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda Telefax: (505) 276 0555
PROLENA(Nicaragua)
Apartado Postal C-321 Managua Nicaragua
E-mail: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
Mr. Etienne Moerman E.Moerman@stud.tue.nl
Joh. Buyslaan 71 tel. +31-40-2571491
5652 NJ EINDHOVEN The Netherlands