June 1999 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Jun 2 09:18:44 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: Top burning in conventional stoves
Message-ID: <13737553.24868958@cs.com>

Dear Andrew Heggie:
You ask...
<< No one mentions the effect of the relative humidity of air on a
woodfire, is it negligible? We have a high humidity here and it seems
to make a lot of difference in starting a fire to me.
>>
It made me think a little.

1) It takes 1.5 m3 of air to gasify 1 kg of biomass,

2) It is generally recommended that biomass for gasification have < 20%
moisture content.

3) At 90 F, air contains about 3% water at 100% humidity, so 1.5 m3 would
carry 45 g of water, the equivalent of a 4.5% increase if the water was in
the biomass.

4) HOWEVER, the 45 g of water in the air is already a vapor, so there is a
much smaller heat penalty than if you poured 45 g of water on the biomass.

~~~~~~
Water is active in UPDRAFT (charcoal burning) gasification where it moderates
grate temperatures by undergoing the endothermic watergas shift reaction.
However, in downdraft (tar burning) gasification it is only a dilution factor
for the air, a minor affect on flaming pyrolysis temperature.
~~~~~~
Can anyone think of other factors that moisture in combustion/gasification
air would have?

Yours truly, TOM REED
BEF

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From ahe1 at cableol.co.uk Wed Jun 2 16:53:42 1999
From: ahe1 at cableol.co.uk (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Re: Top burning in conventional stoves
In-Reply-To: <13737553.24868958@cs.com>
Message-ID: <37719734.897699048@mail.net.ntl.com>

On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:19:20 EDT, Tom Reed wrote:
<snipped calculation on water content of combustion air>
>
>4) HOWEVER, the 45 g of water in the air is already a vapor, so there is a
>much smaller heat penalty than if you poured 45 g of water on the biomass.
>
> ~~~~~~
>Water is active in UPDRAFT (charcoal burning) gasification where it moderates
>grate temperatures by undergoing the endothermic watergas shift reaction.
>However, in downdraft (tar burning) gasification it is only a dilution factor
>for the air, a minor affect on flaming pyrolysis temperature.
> ~~~~~~
>Can anyone think of other factors that moisture in combustion/gasification
>air would have?

Tom

As always a bit of your logic and maths make me realise my subjective
observations must be false. All I can imagine is that, as the twigs I
use are very small, a combination of low air temperature and high
humidity means I achieve very little air drying in winter but in
summer with higher ambient temperature and lower humidity, drying is
quite rapid and hence my fuel becomes more easily ignited.
AJH
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From ronal_l at yahoo.com Sun Jun 6 20:43:16 1999
From: ronal_l at yahoo.com (Ronal Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: Thanks
Message-ID: <19990607004519.8329.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com>

John: Yours sounds like a very fine addition to our
list. Before we can help very much with specific
ideas, as you have requested, I think it would be
helpful to know more about the specific needs for
improved stoves in your part(s) of Nigeria. Will the
interests of women there be more in improved
efficiency or improved indoor air quality? Cooking
now on three-stones? What length of time for
different types of cooking? Etc.

Stovers: Dr. Dada is a new subscriber, who I think
will not mind my forwarding the following in response
to a first short welcome.

Ron

--- Dr John Dada <johndada@fantsuam.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
> Dear Ron
> Thanks for your warm welcome. Ours is a new NGO and
> we work with rural women in Nigeria. One of our
> activities is to promote the use of solar stoves.
> We will be grateful for any ideas or links with
> people who have experience especially of doing this
> in a third world situation.
>
> John Dada. PhD, RN, DipEd
> Director
> Fantsuam Foundation
> 4 King George Avenue
> Leeds.LS7 4LH
> Tel/Fax 0113 2624833
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From mheat at mha-net.org Tue Jun 15 08:45:48 1999
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: new documents online
Message-ID: <4.1.19990615073306.00a4e410@mha-net.org>

Hello Stovers:

Just a short note to say that we've recently updated the Lopez Labs
Archives
http://mha-net.org/msb/html/lop-arc.htm

Among the new technical documents online are:

Testing Protocol for Particulate Emissions from
Woodburning Fireplaces
Northern Sonoma Country APCD, Healdsburg, CA

Flue Gas Emissions in Wood Burning
Stoves
Translation of 1985 Austrian study of PAH emissions from a Grundofen
(masonry heater) and a conventional stove. Includes PAH analyses. Done by
the government test lab for the Austrian stovemasons guild.

A Comparison of Fireplace Emissions Testing
Methods
3 PM test methods were run simultaneously on open masonry fireplaces at
McNear Brick in 1995.

Best............Norbert

----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam (remove
nospam)
Masonry Stove Builders
RR 5, Shawville-------
www.mha-net.org/msb
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092

From larcon at sni.net Tue Jun 15 20:00:43 1999
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: back to work
Message-ID: <v01540b06b38c71e89743@[204.131.233.22]>

Stovers:
1. I had a nice trip to California and will get back to the
dangling stoves issues from Nicaragua very soon. Still need to get out
from under a lot of e-mail.

2. Re my short visit with Kirk Smith. Kirk is especially now
working (I think under WHO contract) on the development of improved
standardized methods for measuring stove pollution indoors.

3. Kirk introduced me to a colleague (Sumeet____? sp?) from India
who has done a fair amount of this work already in India - working in
several slum areas on indoor air quality differences due to type of fuel.
Sumeet's results were counter-intuitive: the use of kerosene did not
improve air quality.
Reasons included 1) a tendency to use kerosene indoors but wood
outdoors, 2) probably more cooked meals, and 3) perhaps more total cooking
- all presumably linked to a higher income level for kerosene users. I
hope that Kirk will encourage Sumeet to add to this brief summary of his
prior work on stoves in Indian urban slum conditions.

4. Together, Kirk and Sumeet are developing guidelines for a
standard rural stove air-quality measurement technique. For instance, they
are comparing the use of $3-4.00 tubes (one-time use, with a color change)
with higher first cost units capable of lower per unit testing. He has
also talked to various manufacturers of 1) low-cost CO detectors and 2)
particle detectors. A lot of money has already gone into the engineering
of these mass-produced low-cost units.

They have also talked to groups able to convert these monitors to a
continuous, low-cost, quantitative monitoring capability. Unfortuantely,
the cost of conversion ($30-40,000 ?) appears to be higher than the funds
available from funders.

5. Kirk also mentioned that he will soon be finishing up report
describing a large matrix of 60-some parameters (presumably efficiency,
dimensions, power levels, pollutant levels, maybe health impacts, etc. )
for about 60 different stove types. Depending on what is important, one
can choose a preferred stove type.

6. Anyone have ideas on lower-cost conversions or other
measurement ideas to pass on to Kirk and Sumeet??

More coming soon on previous "stoves" dialog. Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu Wed Jun 16 23:44:09 1999
From: krksmith at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Kirk R. Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: back to work
In-Reply-To: <v01540b06b38c71e89743@[204.131.233.22]>
Message-ID: <4.1.19990615153925.00ce6e60@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

Sumeet Saksena is responsible for two of the best exposure assessment
studies of solid-fuel using households (one urban and one rural) yet done
in LDCs. He works at the Tata Energy Reseach Institute in Delhi:
<sumeet@teri.res.in> Best/K

At 06:03 PM 6/15/99 -0600, Ronal W. Larson wrote:
>Stovers:
> 1. I had a nice trip to California and will get back to the
>dangling stoves issues from Nicaragua very soon. Still need to get out
>from under a lot of e-mail.
>
> 2. Re my short visit with Kirk Smith. Kirk is especially now
>working (I think under WHO contract) on the development of improved
>standardized methods for measuring stove pollution indoors.
>
> 3. Kirk introduced me to a colleague (Sumeet____? sp?) from India
>who has done a fair amount of this work already in India - working in
>several slum areas on indoor air quality differences due to type of fuel.
>Sumeet's results were counter-intuitive: the use of kerosene did not
>improve air quality.
> Reasons included 1) a tendency to use kerosene indoors but wood
>outdoors, 2) probably more cooked meals, and 3) perhaps more total cooking
>- all presumably linked to a higher income level for kerosene users. I
>hope that Kirk will encourage Sumeet to add to this brief summary of his
>prior work on stoves in Indian urban slum conditions.
>
> 4. Together, Kirk and Sumeet are developing guidelines for a
>standard rural stove air-quality measurement technique. For instance, they
>are comparing the use of $3-4.00 tubes (one-time use, with a color change)
>with higher first cost units capable of lower per unit testing. He has
>also talked to various manufacturers of 1) low-cost CO detectors and 2)
>particle detectors. A lot of money has already gone into the engineering
>of these mass-produced low-cost units.
>
> They have also talked to groups able to convert these monitors to a
>continuous, low-cost, quantitative monitoring capability. Unfortuantely,
>the cost of conversion ($30-40,000 ?) appears to be higher than the funds
>available from funders.
>
> 5. Kirk also mentioned that he will soon be finishing up report
>describing a large matrix of 60-some parameters (presumably efficiency,
>dimensions, power levels, pollutant levels, maybe health impacts, etc. )
>for about 60 different stove types. Depending on what is important, one
>can choose a preferred stove type.
>
> 6. Anyone have ideas on lower-cost conversions or other
>measurement ideas to pass on to Kirk and Sumeet??
>
> More coming soon on previous "stoves" dialog. Ron
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>
>Stoves List SPONSORS and ARCHIVES:
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>Stoves Webpage
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Jun 22 08:00:05 1999
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Tar vs Char Burning - was To Tuyere or Not to Tuyere
Message-ID: <64b2b59a.24a0d4eb@cs.com>

Dear Vern et al:

Two more good questions!

"Tar burning" = co-current, a name already in existence. However, in the
inverted downdraft cook stove the bed is not moving and "co-current" could be
confusing and "tar burning" defines the major differenc ein gas quality terms.

Also, "Char-burning" = countercurrent. Thanks for elucidating this.....

The 90 C condensation temperature condenses tar but not water and the
properties of tar and tar-water mixtures are very different. For maximum
power from an engine cool and clean the gas to 20 C or below. For minimum
cleanup, cool and clean to just above the dew point and get a bigger engine
(says Agua Das).

Yours, TOM REED
BEF

In a message dated 6/20/99 10:42:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
VHarris001@aol.com writes:

<< Dear Tom Reed,

Thanks for your feedback on the tuyere and throat issues.

I have a question regarding the TAR BURNING vs the CHAR BURNING categories.
Is CO-CURRENT FLOW always the same as TAR BURNING? Also, is COUNTER-CURRENT
FLOW always the same as CHAR BURNING?

Your description of TAR BURNING gasifiers includes the phrase "condensible
at
90C." Does that also apply to the tar generated by the CHAR BURNING
gasifier?

What is the special significance of the condensible point of the tar at 90C?

Thanks,
Vernon Harris
>>
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http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Thu Jun 24 14:19:05 1999
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: Request by "stoves" list member for names
Message-ID: <v01540b00b397ef179969@[204.131.233.23]>

Stovers: The following exchange between Marion and myself is being sent as
background for helping Marion in a personal quest. I would not normally
have sent this to our full list, except I now see Marion is a "stoves" list
member. This initial exchange was on the "hedon" list. Marion is looking
for ideas on how to locate black Africans (maybe especially now living out
of Africa) interested in the energy field. I added a few, in my initial
response, but I'm sure that with the expertise on this list, she can
receive more ideas - directly or (I hope) through "stoves", so we can all
listen in.

Marion - Please let our list know 1) if I have stated your need correctly
and 2) whether you are able to find some good candidates. I think the need
is especially great in the area of stoves.

See below for a few more inserts.

>Dear Ron Larson,
>
>thank you for your reply and excuse my poor english. I am also in the
>stoves-crest list, although I do not contribute, as I am not an engineer. But I
>have found lots of helpful information in it.
>
>I am setting up NUN to engage African scientist and engineeers living in
>diaspora in devlopmental work against the drain-brain and for their
>re-integration in their home-regions.

Marion - can you define "NUN"? Could you also tell us a little
more about your background and what part of Africa you are from? (I am
making an assumption here.)
>
>We aim to promote diverse techniques, stoves: solarcookers, biogas, windmills
>etc. for household and agriculture. We focus on information networking into the
>rural areas and informal sectors under consideration of traditional
>information-routes and networks. For this purpose and for the work for
>acceptance -people do not easily adapt utilities- we also involve art, for
>example music. Information has been tought with music in some regions since
>centuries. We aim to connect science and techniques with culture and art in
>Africa.

I am sending this reply also to Dr. Paul Polak, a neighbor, friend,
and President of IDE (International Development Enterprises). IDE has used
these novel native techniques very successfully in the introduction of
several technologies - mostly thus far in Asia. Hopefully Paul can be in
separate contact with examples of his methodologies.

>
>As we are not yet organized, we have one chance to be active. We initiate an
>interdiscipinary scientific cooperation in order to evaluate these strategies.
>But we are at the very beginning. What we have found so far are advisors in
>Economy, Techniques, Funding, Ethnology and Scientific cooperation. The subject
>meets a lot of interest.
>
>What we are looking for are African members (females too!!!) and links for our
>network.

To locate young workers, I would urge contact especially with all
the "AID" organizations. I was especially empressed by the number of
Africans working with GTZ, who I met at the ISES conference in Harare. But
maybe this is why you are writing from Germany?

I looked up the last e-mail from Dr. A.A.B. El-Fadil, who received
his PhD from a German University last year. I think he would be an
excellent contact into the Sudanese renewable energy activities. His new
address is:

Energy Research Institute
Khartoum Centre P.O. Box 4032
Khartoum SUDAN

Tel. +249 11 451948
Fax +249 11 770701

Anyone else have a favorite name or source for names (see some of
my general ideas below)?

>
>I meant to send a request to the stoves-crest-list. As I am not a technician,
>and my members have not been studying stoves, could you offer two or three
>stove-types, that you would consider most approbriate for African regions?
>
I think that the right stoves depends very much on local
conditions, so I am hesitant to offer any 2 or 3 ideas. As a subscriber to
"stoves", you know some of the resources available, and the various ideas
that have been kicked around here on balancing efficiency and clean
environment. I would love to describe charcoal-making stoves when a
particular site and present situation is well defined. I hope that you can
come to the stoves conference next year. Very sorry that I did not
remember you as a "stoves" list member.

>Have a nice day
>Marion.
>
>Ronal W. Larson schrieb:
>
>> Marion - I am a retired engineer/scientist from the US National Renewable
>> Energy Laboratory (NREL) in Golden. I have spent time in Sudan (parts of
>> 1982-83), Ethiopia (5 trips - most recently a month ago), Zimbabwe (5
>> months in 1995), and a little time in Kenya. I try to visit with African
>> Renewable Energy scientists whenever I can, but make no effort to keep a
>> mailing list. I am the coordinator of the list "stoves" at "crest", and
>> also am on several other RE lists besides "hedon" - which means I can
>> contact easily some others who might be able to provide names. Can you
>> describe a bit more what you are looking for?
>>
>> The best long list I can think of will come from the attendees at
>> the 1995 ISES conference in Harare. I met many Africans then and know that
>> many of the best were there. Do you have that list? (I can maybe find it,
>> but have no real idea now of where it is.)
>>
>> At that time, there was an ongoing effort to bring RE more into the
>> UN system. For this purpose, the Africans at that ISES meeting met
>> separately (I sat in briefly). I know they selected Sudan (and one other
>> country, which I have forgotten) to provide RE educational leadership -
>> based on past expertise. Unfortunately, I have not yet found a way to get
>> e-mail into Sudan, so I cannot give you a lead there - but if you don't
>> have any address, I think I can eventually find one.
>>
>> I am fairly close to the ASES leadership in Boulder. I think they
>> might give me the names of all subscribers in Africa. The ISES leadership
>> (in Germany) is probably a better source.
>>
>> Hope this is some help. Please let me know a bit more. I am sure
>> we can find other ways to help you.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> >From: marion.jackson@uni-tuebingen.de
>> >
>> >Do we have Africans on the list? I am setting up an organization of
>> >African engineers and scientists. We aim to promote diverse low-techniques
>> >for the use of renewable energy. Our main focus is on
>> >information-networking and working for acceptance. It would be nice to
>> >hear from somebody. Marion
>> >
>> >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
>> >
>> >Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside?
>> >http://www.onelist.com
>> >At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet.
>> >
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >For more information about HEDON visit:
>> >http://www.energy.demon.nl/hedon/
>>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jun 25 09:45:51 1999
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: Request by "stoves" list member for names
Message-ID: <v01540b00b39938784722@[204.131.233.13]>

Stovers: More information below from Marion Jackson. Apparently some of
us have helped - but I am sure more names and ideas would be welcome.

Marion - I think it is great what you are doing. Please keep in touch. Ron

>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:46:30 +0200
>From: Marion Jackson <marion.jackson@uni-tuebingen.de>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Re: Request by "stoves" list member for names
>
>Hello,
>that is what I was afraid of in turning to the stovescrest list: The mass of
>information and help is just overwhelming.
>Ron, yes, you have stated my need correctly.
>You have asked me to my background. The reason why I might appear clumsy
>is, that I
>do not have one. I am not a scientist, technician, but a simple German
>secretary.
>This is why I collect people who know more about the topics. The others in
>our group
>are all Africans and well educated.
>At the moment I have some general information translated, and will provide
>it as
>soon as possible. Koyode, who does researches in making energy of sludge
>as a guest
>of Nigeria to the university here, will join in stoves-crest and Hedon for us.
>Do give us advice then, if you see steps we should take.
>Have a nice day
>Marion

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Sat Jun 26 00:24:38 1999
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: Non-member submission on heating water
Message-ID: <v01540b00b399c21f5ec7@[204.131.233.12]>

Stovers:
This is not quite our area, but I'm sure there are list members who
can give good advice on what seems intended to be a do-it-yourself project.

Yehuda - Please keep us informed on whether you have success or not. Ron

>Hi,
>
> I need your advice on heating water. Can I use a fuel/wood heating
>stove for heating water in an internal radiator. I would like to use
>this water for heating far away parts of the house via radiators.
>
> thanks, yehuda
>
>Please email me directly...YdY

"Yehuda D. Yizraeli" <yehuda@zoran.co.il>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From elk at net2000ke.com Tue Jun 29 12:20:41 1999
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:20 2004
Subject: Carbonising Sawdust- Ceramic kiln results.
Message-ID: <199906291624.TAA13439@net2000ke.com>

BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

June 1999 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive