July 2000 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From elk at net2000ke.com Thu Jul 6 09:03:30 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (KARSTAD)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Cahrcoaling & Greenhouse gasses
Message-ID: <200007061306.QAA22706@net2000ke.com>

Hello Stovers;

In carbonising sawdust, I am flaring the volatiles completely. Or at least
it seems complete- the hot gasseous product of this combustion is completely
clear. No more smoke.

Is this 'good' in terms of greenhouse gasses? Obviously, it's 'good' to
eliminate the noxious white smoke from a tangible pollution point of view,
but what's the chemistry here?

I'm afraid my college chemistry classes are so far behind me and have been
so little used in the intervening years that I can only guess that I do the
right thing......

Otherwise all is well, and the demand for my charcoal vendor's waste
briquettes is threatening to outstrip supply- even now that we've cranked up
production to close to 5 tons/day. It's easy to sell when you're cheaper
than the competition!

The hydraulic ram briquetter (which produces 150 m 'chunks') is operating
well. The chunks take three days to air/sun dry (twice as long as VWB) but
are admirably suited to space-heating in poultry and pig farms. I haven't
tried marketing anywhere else yet.

We are still looking into funding for the working prototype sawdust
briquette plant. Slow but steady progress. It'll happen some day!

rgs;

elk
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
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From larcon at sni.net Thu Jul 6 20:24:09 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Forwarding - Russian Samovars
Message-ID: <v01540b02b58a5ad1b8ef@[204.131.233.4]>

Stovers:

Perhaps Dr. Yuri or others could give some information on samovar
details on stamps.

I also have had an exchange recently with a Jim Underwood, writing
from Tibet, with questions about optimum dimensions for samovar-like
devices. Jim is building his own in Tibet - based on reports of high
efficiency water heating along the lines that this group discussed perhaps
two years ago. Can anyone report on internal flue optimization? Others
should feel free to contact Jim directly: "jim underwood"
<tibet2k@hotmail.com>

Charles - Hope this helps get your answers. Would you be good enough to
describe the dimensions of the two samovars that you have identified below
- Others can contact him at: "Charles Gilbert Richards" <fumbles@unm.edu>

Ron

>
>Hi!
>
>Your information which I just looked over is very informative and
>interesting. I've already learned a lot just from the brief bit on the
>web site featuring your letter.
>
>Last week we purchased a Russian (I hope!) Samovar in Alaska to place on
>an old (antique?) chest which belonged to my grandmother. And we are
>wondering how to find out more about it. Also we would like to know more
>about the various stamps on it and what they mean. It has not come yet,
>so I can not give a detailed description of it. But it had about four or
>five stamps on it that appeared to be Russian with one date of 1841, I
>believe. In the same shop, we saw a HUGE (about 18-20 inches tall)
>silver samovar and were wondering if it might be worth purchasing,
>although I fear it's pretty pricey.
>
>Any information or guidance to other sources of information would be
>greatly appreciated.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Sincerely,
>Gib Richards
>ME Dept UNM
>Albuquerque, NM 87131
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

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From larcon at sni.net Thu Jul 6 23:56:15 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Forwarding adam sebbit on stove testing
Message-ID: <v01540b0db58ae309d4ac@[204.131.233.29]>

Stovers: Any additional comments to make?

Adam - I am not an expert in the measurement of metal charcoal stoves, but
have these questions:

1) Your charcoal burning stove is not a "jiko" (with ceramic liner)?

2) Is there any form of insulation?

3) What is the size of both the pot and the stove unit (all
pertinent dimensions)?

4) What is your formula for calculating efficiency? Are you
boiling water away or are you successively heating up multiple batches of
water?

My understanding of other's measurements is that 28% is not an
unreasonable result for charcoal-using stoves.

Others able to help?

>I am undertaking a stove test in the university laboratory.
>Initially I started the charcoal stoves with 25 ml of paraffin . I
>found out the weigh the all the components( stove, charcoal after
>burning), I found a weight loss reduction of 50 g.
>
>In the subsequent tests I started the charcoal with 50 g of glowing
>charcoal and add 300g of charcoal to the stove (350g total). In this
>case the efficiency seems to be too high for metallic stoves. It is
>about 28% against 20% about in most cases in available literature.
>
>what mistake could have made.?
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Adam.M.Sebbit
>Makerere University
>Department of Mechanical Engineering
>P.O.Box 7062
>Kampala, UGANDA
>Tel: 256 -41-541173 / 545029
>Cell 077-485803
>Fax: 256-41-542377

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Jul 7 13:18:23 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Flaring &Greenhouse gasses
Message-ID: <2f.7a48118.26976ab0@cs.com>

Dear ELK, RGE et al:

Your clear, oderless flare during charcoal making, certainly produces less
greenhouse gas than for instance termite rotting (methane in gut), so your
conscience should be clear.

However, as a second target:

The flared gas contains 2/3 of the sawdust energy, so if you could put it to
good use displacing fossil fuels it would have three times as much impact.

Who is RGE??

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF/CPC

In a message dated 7/6/00 7:10:14 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
elk@net2000ke.com writes:

<<
Hello Stovers;

In carbonising sawdust, I am flaring the volatiles completely. Or at least
it seems complete- the hot gasseous product of this combustion is completely
clear. No more smoke.

Is this 'good' in terms of greenhouse gasses? Obviously, it's 'good' to
eliminate the noxious white smoke from a tangible pollution point of view,
but what's the chemistry here?

I'm afraid my college chemistry classes are so far behind me and have been
so little used in the intervening years that I can only guess that I do the
right thing......

Otherwise all is well, and the demand for my charcoal vendor's waste
briquettes is threatening to outstrip supply- even now that we've cranked up
production to close to 5 tons/day. It's easy to sell when you're cheaper
than the competition!

The hydraulic ram briquetter (which produces 150 m 'chunks') is operating
well. The chunks take three days to air/sun dry (twice as long as VWB) but
are admirably suited to space-heating in poultry and pig farms. I haven't
tried marketing anywhere else yet.

We are still looking into funding for the working prototype sawdust
briquette plant. Slow but steady progress. It'll happen some day!

rgs;

elk >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
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For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
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From dpennise at uclink4.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 7 19:25:09 2000
From: dpennise at uclink4.berkeley.edu (David Pennise)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Cahrcoaling & Greenhouse gasses
In-Reply-To: <200007061306.QAA22706@net2000ke.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000707162456.00f558d8@uclink4.berkeley.edu>

Hello Elsen,

Flaring should be the way to go. Flaring will convert some of
the incomplete combustion products, including the carbon monoxide
and the hydrocarbons, to carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is the
weakest greenhouse gas among them and is therefore the most
desirable product. For example, the 1995 IPCC report lists
the following global warming potentials (GWPs) on a molar or
per carbon atom basis (100 year time horizon):
CO2 = 1.0
CH4 = 7.6

Although not listed in the 1995 report due to some uncertainty,
the 1990 IPCC report lists the following GWPs (again on a molar
or per carbon atom basis; 100 year time horizon):
CO = 1.9
non-methane hydrocarbons = 4.1

More recent work has tended to verify that the GWP values listed
in IPCC 1990 for carbon monoxide and non-methane hydrocarbons are
probably reasonable. In fact, the IPCC 1990 values lie at the
lower end of the ranges.

Keep up the good work in Nairobi.

Take care,
David Pennise

At 02:27 PM 7/6/2000 +0300, you wrote:
>Hello Stovers;
>
>In carbonising sawdust, I am flaring the volatiles completely. Or at least
>it seems complete- the hot gasseous product of this combustion is completely
>clear. No more smoke.
>
>Is this 'good' in terms of greenhouse gasses? Obviously, it's 'good' to
>eliminate the noxious white smoke from a tangible pollution point of view,
>but what's the chemistry here?
>
> I'm afraid my college chemistry classes are so far behind me and have been
>so little used in the intervening years that I can only guess that I do the
>right thing......
>
>Otherwise all is well, and the demand for my charcoal vendor's waste
>briquettes is threatening to outstrip supply- even now that we've cranked up
>production to close to 5 tons/day. It's easy to sell when you're cheaper
>than the competition!
>
>The hydraulic ram briquetter (which produces 150 m 'chunks') is operating
>well. The chunks take three days to air/sun dry (twice as long as VWB) but
>are admirably suited to space-heating in poultry and pig farms. I haven't
>tried marketing anywhere else yet.
>
>We are still looking into funding for the working prototype sawdust
>briquette plant. Slow but steady progress. It'll happen some day!
>
>rgs;
>
>elk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Pennise
Environmental Health Sciences
School of Public Health
University of California
140 Warren Hall, MC 7360 tel: 510-643-5580
Berkeley, CA 94720 fax: 510-642-5815
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
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From larcon at sni.net Sat Jul 8 11:39:24 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Forwarding Flanders on candles and IAQ
Message-ID: <v01540b00b58ceb22553c@[204.131.233.21]>

Stovers:

List member Kathy Flanders (e-mail address shown below) asked for
guidance on forwarding the following message. As the topic is off the
usual "stoves" topics, I decided to send on the following condensed
version. Anyone wishing the full version should write to Kathy or myself.
Those interested in Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) topics should also be
particpating in the IAQ list, which is geared primarily to developed
country IAQ problems. Kathy keeps us informed when topics relate to
"stoves" topics - such as the following.

Kathy: Thanks for forwarding this on - and for the use of the phrase below
coming from your listening in on our "stoves" list:

>"some of these homes operate rather unintentionally as
>occupied chimneys."

Too true. I will send on my own "urging" today. Thanks for being so
involved and for all your own efforts on IAQ.

Ron

>From: Rkfabf@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:51:02 EDT
>Subject: A small favor to ask
>To: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>
>Hi Ronal -
>
>Hope all is well with you & yours. I have a small favor to ask since I don't
>necessarily feel that this would be appropriate text to post to the Stoves
>List. Could you read the text that follows & then forward to colleagues of
>yours that you feel would be likely to respond & support this ban? Feel free
>to condense or edit text to the part that refers to it as a "Global Issue".
>
>Thanks for your assistance.
>
>Regards-
> Cathy Flanders
> IAQ List Manager & Moderator
> E-Mail: iaq-owner@onelist.com
> Fax # 781-394-8288
> Personal E-Mail: RKFABF@aol.com
> IAQ List - Home
> http://www.onelist.com/community/iaq
> IAQ List - Links
> http://www.onelist.com/links/iaq
>
> Candles and Indoor Air Quality
> http://www.fiscorp.net/iaq/
> <A HREF="http://disc.server.com/Indices/41692.html">Homeowners Soot Damage
>Discussion</A>
> http://disc.server.com/Indices/41692.html
>_____________________________________________________________________
>
> Subj: Request for your comment - REALLY IS A GLOBAL ISSUE & THIS IS WHY...
>
>Fellow Public Health Advocates & Colleagues -
>
>As you may have heard by now Public Citizen & Health Research Group have
>filed a petition to issue a legally mandatory ban & recall on the use of
>lead in candle wicks. I'm hoping to enlist your help by submitting your
>comments in writing in support of enacting a mandated ban of lead in any &
>all candles made or sold in the US The deadline for comments was June 12th;
>however, a representative from the CPSC's Office of General Council contacted
>me last Friday to inform me that they would indeed accept & consider any late
>arriving comments submitted - for the next several weeks. Please try to get
>your comments in at your earliest possible convenience
>
>*Read :
><A
>HREF="http://www.citizen.org/hrg/PUBLICATIONS/1510.htm#Supplemental%20letter">
>Comments Submitted by Public Citizen & Health Research Group</A>
>http://www.citizen.org/hrg/PUBLICATIONS/1510.htm#Supplemental letter
>
<snip about 25 lines>
>
>And then what about the Third World countries where candles are still used as
>their primary source of household light? Granted these homes by nature &
>design are not as "tight" as homes in the US & some parts of Europe...in
>fact, to the best of my understanding from the discussions I've observed on
>the Stoves List, some of these homes operate rather unintentionally as
>occupied chimneys. These are just a few of the things to consider & what I
>mean by stating - THIS REALLY IS A GLOBAL ISSUE.
>
<snip another 40 lines>
>
>The address where comments need to be sent:
>
>ADDRESSES: Comments on the petition should be sent to:
>
>E-Mail to: cpsc-os@cpsc.gov
>
>With the subject heading: "Petition HP 00-3--Candle Wicks
>Containing Lead."
>
>Office of the Secretary
>Consumer Product Safety Commission
>Washington, DC 20207
>telephone (301) 504-0800
>
>OR delivered to:
>Office of the Secretary, Consumer Product Safety Commission
>room 502, 4330 East-West Highway
>Bethesda, Maryland 20814.
>
>Comments may also be filed by
>Fax (301) 504-0127
>
>Comments should be captioned ``Petition HP 00-3--Candle Wicks
>Containing Lead.''
>
>Please be sure to CC the following addresses:
>
>SWOLFE@citizen.org,
>
>plurie@citizen.org,
>
>RKFABF@aol.com
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Sat Jul 8 13:51:31 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Inquiry on Pune conference
Message-ID: <v01540b01b58d07d19569@[204.131.233.7]>

Stovers:
This message has three purposes:

1. First is to encourage all possible attendees to the November Pune
conference to signal a possibility or probability to Dr. Priya.

2. Second is to forward a request from one list member who would like to
attend - but can only justify the trip if others with his special area of
interest are also likely to be there. He desires technical discussions to
forward his type of stove - which is to use liquid fuels based on seed
products such as jatropha curcas oil, etc.

From personal contact, I can attest that this fellow (Jon Otto
<otto@sover.net>) has a lot to offer the conference and therefore hope that
others who have a similar interest in his type of stove development will
communicate with him directly.

3. A similar concern might be occuring for others. If so, I hope you will
communicate with Dr. Priya, myself, or the full list to see if we can't
answer these specific questions that might be causing delays in talking
with Dr. Priya.

Thanks in advance.

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni Mon Jul 10 01:09:32 2000
From: rmiranda at sdnnic.org.ni (Rogerio Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:36 2004
Subject: Inquiry on Pune conference
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000709132641.00a48520@205.218.248.130>

Ron, Priyadarshini, Jon Otto:

I am planning to attend the Pune Conference, however don´t have funds so
far, but will search for it.

Here in Nicaragua some work has been done regarding the production of oil
from jatropha curcas, and the possibility of using it for home cooking.
Therefore we will be interested in exchanging info about this subject.

Rogerio Miranda

>X-Authentication-Warning: secure.crest.net: majordomo set sender to
owner-stoves@crest.org using -f
>X-Sender: larcon@lynx.sni.net (Unverified)
>Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 11:04:59 -0600
>To: stoves@crest.org
>From: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>Subject: Inquiry on Pune conference
>Sender: owner-stoves@crest.org
>
>Stovers:
> This message has three purposes:
>
>1. First is to encourage all possible attendees to the November Pune
>conference to signal a possibility or probability to Dr. Priya.
>
>2. Second is to forward a request from one list member who would like to
>attend - but can only justify the trip if others with his special area of
>interest are also likely to be there. He desires technical discussions to
>forward his type of stove - which is to use liquid fuels based on seed
>products such as jatropha curcas oil, etc.
>
> From personal contact, I can attest that this fellow (Jon Otto
><otto@sover.net>) has a lot to offer the conference and therefore hope that
>others who have a similar interest in his type of stove development will
>communicate with him directly.
>
>3. A similar concern might be occuring for others. If so, I hope you will
>communicate with Dr. Priya, myself, or the full list to see if we can't
>answer these specific questions that might be causing delays in talking
>with Dr. Priya.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Ron
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
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>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda
Asesor Tecnico Principal
PROLEÑA/Nicaragua
Apartado Postal C-321
Managua, Nicaragua
TELEFAX (505) 276 2015, 270 5448
EMAIL: rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
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From shayden at NRCan.gc.ca Tue Jul 11 03:17:23 2000
From: shayden at NRCan.gc.ca (Hayden, Skip)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Cahrcoaling & Greenhouse gasses
Message-ID: <31EC3D073B34D111BC6000805FBE3A8AA932CE@S0-BCC-X1>

Flaring is not necessarily the way to go, especially if the flare is subject
to fuel variations and more importantly to lateral winds.

Work that we and others are involved in shows that sidewinds can change
combustion efficiency (completeness of combustion) from 99% to perhaps as
low as 70%, with a significant amount of the incomplete products being
either a much more significant greenhouse gas than CO2 and/or extremely
toxic components.

We are presently carrying out work in a just-commissioned pilot scale flare
test facility capable of burning at up to 2 million Btu/h at lateral winds
from 10-50 km/h.

Skip Hayden

A.C.S. Hayden
Senior Research Scientist
Advanced Combustion Technologies
ETB/CETC, NRCan
1 Haanel Drive
Ottawa, Canada K1A 1M1
tel: (613) 996-3186
fax: (613) 992-9335
e-mail: skip.hayden@nrcan.gc.ca

> ----------
> From: David Pennise[SMTP:dpennise@uclink4.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:24 PM
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Subject: Re: Cahrcoaling & Greenhouse gasses
>
> Hello Elsen,
>
> Flaring should be the way to go. Flaring will convert some of
> the incomplete combustion products, including the carbon monoxide
> and the hydrocarbons, to carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is the
> weakest greenhouse gas among them and is therefore the most
> desirable product. For example, the 1995 IPCC report lists
> the following global warming potentials (GWPs) on a molar or
> per carbon atom basis (100 year time horizon):
> CO2 = 1.0
> CH4 = 7.6
>
> Although not listed in the 1995 report due to some uncertainty,
> the 1990 IPCC report lists the following GWPs (again on a molar
> or per carbon atom basis; 100 year time horizon):
> CO = 1.9
> non-methane hydrocarbons = 4.1
>
> More recent work has tended to verify that the GWP values listed
> in IPCC 1990 for carbon monoxide and non-methane hydrocarbons are
> probably reasonable. In fact, the IPCC 1990 values lie at the
> lower end of the ranges.
>
> Keep up the good work in Nairobi.
>
> Take care,
> David Pennise
>
>
>
> At 02:27 PM 7/6/2000 +0300, you wrote:
> >Hello Stovers;
> >
> >In carbonising sawdust, I am flaring the volatiles completely. Or at
> least
> >it seems complete- the hot gasseous product of this combustion is
> completely
> >clear. No more smoke.
> >
> >Is this 'good' in terms of greenhouse gasses? Obviously, it's 'good' to
> >eliminate the noxious white smoke from a tangible pollution point of
> view,
> >but what's the chemistry here?
> >
> > I'm afraid my college chemistry classes are so far behind me and have
> been
> >so little used in the intervening years that I can only guess that I do
> the
> >right thing......
> >
> >Otherwise all is well, and the demand for my charcoal vendor's waste
> >briquettes is threatening to outstrip supply- even now that we've cranked
> up
> >production to close to 5 tons/day. It's easy to sell when you're cheaper
> >than the competition!
> >
> >The hydraulic ram briquetter (which produces 150 m 'chunks') is operating
> >well. The chunks take three days to air/sun dry (twice as long as VWB)
> but
> >are admirably suited to space-heating in poultry and pig farms. I haven't
> >tried marketing anywhere else yet.
> >
> >We are still looking into funding for the working prototype sawdust
> >briquette plant. Slow but steady progress. It'll happen some day!
> >
> >rgs;
> >
> >elk
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> David Pennise
> Environmental Health Sciences
> School of Public Health
> University of California
> 140 Warren Hall, MC 7360 tel: 510-643-5580
> Berkeley, CA 94720 fax: 510-642-5815
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
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From tibet2k at hotmail.com Tue Jul 11 09:49:29 2000
From: tibet2k at hotmail.com (jim underwood)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding - Russian Samovars
Message-ID: <200007111349.GAA19043@secure.crest.net>

Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 02:42:16 EDT
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

ronal:

i am back in from the field only at 8am this morning after quite an
adventure with debris flows and sunk trucks. it's monsoon here. i find early
booking on my flight, so am scampering about today, leaving early tomorrow.
i will continue this conversation on arrival home. the boiler stays here and
will get a try-out by some tibetans working with a friend who is staying
here. if it gets rave reviews, we may put it into limited production in a
workshop next fall and see how about 50 tibetans feel about it.

trying new designs is pretty easy here. a decent tinbanger costs about
usd3-4/day and a design takes about one or two days. the real cost is in
brass and copper.

jim

>From: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>To: stoves@crest.org
>CC: Charles Gilbert Richards <fumbles@unm.edu>, "jim underwood"
><tibet2k@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Forwarding - Russian Samovars
>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 17:37:14 -0600
>
>Stovers:
>
> Perhaps Dr. Yuri or others could give some information on samovar
>details on stamps.
>
> I also have had an exchange recently with a Jim Underwood, writing
>from Tibet, with questions about optimum dimensions for samovar-like
>devices. Jim is building his own in Tibet - based on reports of high
>efficiency water heating along the lines that this group discussed perhaps
>two years ago. Can anyone report on internal flue optimization? Others
>should feel free to contact Jim directly: "jim underwood"
><tibet2k@hotmail.com>
>
>Charles - Hope this helps get your answers. Would you be good enough to
>describe the dimensions of the two samovars that you have identified below
>- Others can contact him at: "Charles Gilbert Richards" <fumbles@unm.edu>
>
>Ron
>
> >
> >Hi!
> >
> >Your information which I just looked over is very informative and
> >interesting. I've already learned a lot just from the brief bit on the
> >web site featuring your letter.
> >
> >Last week we purchased a Russian (I hope!) Samovar in Alaska to place on
> >an old (antique?) chest which belonged to my grandmother. And we are
> >wondering how to find out more about it. Also we would like to know more
> >about the various stamps on it and what they mean. It has not come yet,
> >so I can not give a detailed description of it. But it had about four or
> >five stamps on it that appeared to be Russian with one date of 1841, I
> >believe. In the same shop, we saw a HUGE (about 18-20 inches tall)
> >silver samovar and were wondering if it might be worth purchasing,
> >although I fear it's pretty pricey.
> >
> >Any information or guidance to other sources of information would be
> >greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >Gib Richards
> >ME Dept UNM
> >Albuquerque, NM 87131
> >
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

From elk at net2000ke.com Tue Jul 11 15:38:05 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal water heater
Message-ID: <008801bfeb6e$e9b13d20$a141cac3@preferrc>

Ok, Ok- I know- charcoal to heat water? Why not
wood?

Well- two reasons for me- the heater is right next to my house
& has the desirable attribute of being smokeless using my slow-burning
Vendor's Waste Briquettes, and secondly, I do have a lot of cheap fuel
available...... I'm now over 5 tons per day VWB production.

I designed the heater around a readily available used 70 litre
metal drum. After washing out the seemingly toxic residue, I welded through
(from top to bottom) five 1.25 inch dia. water pipes as chimneys- centrally
located in a tight cluster in the bottom and spread out equidistant through the
top of the drum- same pattern as number 5 on a dice. Two small dia. pipes into
the side of the tank- one at the bottom and one at the top serve as 'cold in'
(bottom) and 'hot out' (top) There's also a vent pipe projecting from the top of
the tank.

The firebox is an enclosed extension below the tank- welded
directly on- with a large door with latch and six 2.5 cm dia. air inlet holes
spaced around the bottom. Charcoal is contained in a removable perforated steel
dish with 3 cm legs, and is placed within the firebox after being lit. One load
heats an entire tank of water to nearly boiling- and I've yet to insulate the
tank in any way.

I've run a few trials on this, and had some
lovely steamy baths. I won't go into detail on how the plumbing is arranged-
suffice to say it's all rubber pipes. The efficiency calculates out at almost
exactly 50%. I get 70 litres of 85' C water from 2 kg of my charcoal. I'm sure
it could work with wood, but I have no reason to convert- especially as I use my
salvaged 'green' charcoal.

My major motivation for the construction of this
water heater is the fact that we Kenyans no longer have the luxury of
electrically heated water- our electricity supply is rationed down to less than
30% at present.

Necessity is certainly the mother of invention
in this case.

Alex- I'll sent a drawing of the water heater to
you as an e-mail attachment- could you post it on the Stoves web-site
please?

Regards;

<FONT color=#000000
size=2>elk~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Elsen L. Karstad , P.O. Box
24371 Nairobi Kenya<A
href="mailto:elk@net2000ke.com">elk@net2000ke.com
tel/fax (+ 254 2) 884437

From larcon at sni.net Tue Jul 11 16:56:29 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding: assay for lignin
Message-ID: <v01540b00b5912f4df11a@[204.131.233.29]>

Stovers:
Anyone able to assist?

>Hi:
>Could you pass on a reference for "assay of lignin"
>
>Thanks,
>Bhuvana
bhuvana gopalakrishnan <bhugop@hotmail.com>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From richard_bain at nrel.gov Wed Jul 12 11:04:16 2000
From: richard_bain at nrel.gov (Bain, Richard)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding: assay for lignin
Message-ID: <2FCE8613B36ED2118EB800805F6F05AF0293DF5A@nt-comm6>

FYI

The following information is given in

Domalski, E.S., Jobe, T.L. and Milne, T.A. (1987) Thermodynamic Data for
Biomass Materials and Waste Components, ASME, NY,NY

LIGNIN; solid; Extracted wood of northern red oak (Quercus rubra)
was divided into three major chemical components of which
lignin comprised 23.81%. Material is the major noncarbohydrate
constituent of wood; it is a highly polymeric substance, with a
complex, cross linked, highly aromatic structure of molecular
weight about 10,000 derived principally from coniferyl alcohol
(Cl0 Hl2 03) by extensive condensation-polymerization. The rela-
tionship between gross heat of combustion and moisture content
(MC) is given by the regression equation: tnqv(Btu lb-1) = 9.0733-
(0.0030)MC(%)

gross heat of combustion: oven dry basis, assume values refer to
room temperature; values are reported in international British
thermal units per pound and converted below into thermo-
chemical units.
qV(gross) = 9111 Btu lb-1
qv(gross) = 5062 cal g-1
qV(groSs) = 21178 J g-1

LIGNIN, HARDWOOD; solid; composition: carbon, 60%; hydrogen,
6%; oxygen, 34%; empirical formula: C10 H12 O4.2. No general
agreement prevails about the structure of lignin. Studies showthat a
dioxyphenylpropyl grouping is an important part of the
polymer.

gross heat of combustion: assume values refer to room tempera-ture and are
on a dry basis.

qV(gross) = 10620 Btu lb-1qv(gross) = 5900 cal g-1qV(gross) = 24685 J g-1

LIGNIN, LOBLOLLY PINE WOOD; Pinus toeda; solid; major (29.4%
lignin) [68McM] noncarbohydrate constituent of wood; functions
as a natural plastic binder for cellulose fibers.
specific heat: 333-413 K (140°-284°F); samples were oven-driedc
at 100°C (212°F) for 12 hours before measurements were made.
Values are on a dry basis.

Cp(Btu lb-1 0F-1) = 0.2579 + 4.28 x 10-4 T
Cp(cal g-1 K~1) = 0.06133 + 7.7 x 10-4 T
Cp(J g~ K-1) = 0.25660 + 3.22 x 10-3 T

The following is given in

SERI (1979)"A Survey of Biomass Gasification, Volume II - Principles of
Gasification, Chapter 3 - Properties of Biomass Relevant to Gasification",
SERI/TR-33-239, Golden, CO.

3.2.4 Lignin

The noncarbohydrate component of the cell wall, termed lignin, is a
three-dimensional polymer based primarily on the phenylpropane unit. Lignin
is deposited in an amorphous state surrounding the cellulose fibers and is
bound to the cellulose directly by ether bonds. lts exact structure is not
known, although considerable information is available based on its chemical
reactivity. In solubility analyses, lignin is defined as the cell wall
portion not soluble in 72% sulfuric acid. Table 3-15 gives typical elemental
analvses of wood lignins.

Table 3-15. ELEMENTAL ANALYSIS OF WOOD LIGNIN

Type C (%) H (%) O (%) OCH3 (96)
Molecular Weight

Softwood 63.8 6.3 29.9 15.8
10,000
Hardwood 59.8 6.4 33.7 21.4
5,000

It is assumed, based on much evidence, that the lignins are composed of
several monomer groups as shown in Fig. 3-6. These are combined to form the
polymer by a variety of linkages involving the aromatic rings and functional
groups. The polymer formed contains only single aromatic rings as shown in
Fig. 3-7 (structural formula).

Rich Bain

Dr. Richard L. Bain
Chemistry for Bioenergy Systems Center
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
M.S. 1613
1617Cole Boulevard
Golden, Colorado 80401-3393
Ph: 303-275-2946, Fax:303-275-2905
e-mail: richard_bain@nrel.gov

> -----Original Message-----
> From: larcon@sni.net [SMTP:larcon@sni.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2000 2:10 PM
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Cc: bhuvana gopalakrishnan
> Subject: Forwarding: assay for lignin
>
> Stovers:
> Anyone able to assist?
>
>
> >Hi:
> >Could you pass on a reference for "assay of lignin"
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Bhuvana
> bhuvana gopalakrishnan <bhugop@hotmail.com>
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
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The Stoves List is Sponsored by
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Thu Jul 13 07:00:18 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Cahrcoaling & Greenhouse gasses
Message-ID: <34.7d1a8d9.269efaf6@cs.com>

Dear Skip, ELK, RGS, David Pennise etc.:

This is getting interesting.

Skip is certainly right that flaring is not NECESSARILY the way to go. I
have always been amazed that oil refineries, presumably built and operated by
chemical engineer types, often have VISIBLE (for gooness sake) flares,
presumably just to irritate the public. It is a very simple matter to admit
a sufficient quantity of air to the fuel being flared to make it totally
invisible, so no one knows how much energy you are wasting. No doubt makes
them feel macho and asserts their primacy over the rest of us.

So, I hope that this project will add sufficient air to the flare to make it
oderless and tastful.

Yours truly, TOM REED CPC/BEF

In a message dated 7/11/00 1:18:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
shayden@NRCan.gc.ca writes:

<<
Flaring is not necessarily the way to go, especially if the flare is subject
to fuel variations and more importantly to lateral winds.

Work that we and others are involved in shows that sidewinds can change
combustion efficiency (completeness of combustion) from 99% to perhaps as
low as 70%, with a significant amount of the incomplete products being
either a much more significant greenhouse gas than CO2 and/or extremely
toxic components.

We are presently carrying out work in a just-commissioned pilot scale flare
test facility capable of burning at up to 2 million Btu/h at lateral winds
from 10-50 km/h.

Skip Hayden

A.C.S. Hayden
Senior Research Scientist
Advanced Combustion Technologies
ETB/CETC, NRCan
1 Haanel Drive
Ottawa, Canada K1A 1M1
tel: (613) 996-3186
fax: (613) 992-9335
e-mail: skip.hayden@nrcan.gc.ca

> ----------
> From: David Pennise[SMTP:dpennise@uclink4.berkeley.edu]
> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 7:24 PM
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Subject: Re: Cahrcoaling & Greenhouse gasses
>
> Hello Elsen,
>
> Flaring should be the way to go. Flaring will convert some of
> the incomplete combustion products, including the carbon monoxide
> and the hydrocarbons, to carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is the
> weakest greenhouse gas among them and is therefore the most
> desirable product. For example, the 1995 IPCC report lists
> the following global warming potentials (GWPs) on a molar or
> per carbon atom basis (100 year time horizon):
> CO2 = 1.0
> CH4 = 7.6
>
> Although not listed in the 1995 report due to some uncertainty,
> the 1990 IPCC report lists the following GWPs (again on a molar
> or per carbon atom basis; 100 year time horizon):
> CO = 1.9
> non-methane hydrocarbons = 4.1
>
> More recent work has tended to verify that the GWP values listed
> in IPCC 1990 for carbon monoxide and non-methane hydrocarbons are
> probably reasonable. In fact, the IPCC 1990 values lie at the
> lower end of the ranges.
>
> Keep up the good work in Nairobi.
>
> Take care,
> David Pennise
>
>
>
> At 02:27 PM 7/6/2000 +0300, you wrote:
> >Hello Stovers;
> >
> >In carbonising sawdust, I am flaring the volatiles completely. Or at
> least
> >it seems complete- the hot gasseous product of this combustion is
> completely
> >clear. No more smoke.
> >
> >Is this 'good' in terms of greenhouse gasses? Obviously, it's 'good' to
> >eliminate the noxious white smoke from a tangible pollution point of
> view,
> >but what's the chemistry here?
> >
> > I'm afraid my college chemistry classes are so far behind me and have
> been
> >so little used in the intervening years that I can only guess that I do
> the
> >right thing......
> >
> >Otherwise all is well, and the demand for my charcoal vendor's waste
> >briquettes is threatening to outstrip supply- even now that we've cranked
> up
> >production to close to 5 tons/day. It's easy to sell when you're cheaper
> >than the competition!
> >
> >The hydraulic ram briquetter (which produces 150 m 'chunks') is operating
> >well. The chunks take three days to air/sun dry (twice as long as VWB)
> but
> >are admirably suited to space-heating in poultry and pig farms. I haven't
> >tried marketing anywhere else yet.
> >
> >We are still looking into funding for the working prototype sawdust
> >briquette plant. Slow but steady progress. It'll happen some day!
> >
> >rgs;
> >
> >elk
>
>

>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> David Pennise
> Environmental Health Sciences
> School of Public Health
> University of California
> 140 Warren Hall, MC 7360 tel: 510-643-5580
> Berkeley, CA 94720 fax: 510-642-5815
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
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For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
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From larcon at sni.net Thu Jul 13 11:12:40 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding query on pelletization of sludge
Message-ID: <v01540b00b5937b2e6bd9@[204.131.233.8]>

Stovers: Anyone able to help?

Serena: I'm sure it would be helpful for the members of "stoves" to know
what you have tried and the scale at which you are proposing to operate.
Is one intent to use the pellets for household cooking and heating? Can
you dry the sludge further before pelletization?

The dominant binder material that I recall our list rererring to is
ordinary clay (not sand). But others have talked also about using organics
such as molasses (small amounts).

Ron

>From: "Serena Domvile" <domvile@attglobal.net>
>To: <stoves@crest.org>
>Subject: pelletization of sludges to prevent volatilization
>Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:13:13 -0000
>Organization: Domvile y Asociados

>I am interested in pelletizing volatile materials (450=BA C) to
>introduce them into a slag (1000=BAC) for stabilization via
>solidifacation without volatization of volatile materials contained
>within the pellets. What type of formulations would be appropriate for
>application on sludges with a 30% humidity level. Where should I begin
>looking? Are there low cost options available, perhaps using natual
>sand sources plus bentonite?
>
>Hope you can help me.
>
>Serena Domvile=20
>
>------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEBE9.CA5D9060
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
>http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am interested in pelletizing volatile =
>materials=20
>(450=BA C) to introduce them into a slag (1000=BAC) for stabilization =
>via=20
>solidifacation without volatization of volatile materials contained =
>within the=20
>pellets.  What type of formulations would be appropriate for =
>application on=20
>sludges with a 30% humidity level.  Where should I begin =
>looking? =20
>Are there low cost options available, perhaps using natual sand =
>sources=20
>plus bentonite?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope you can help me.</FONT></DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Serena =
>Domvile</FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
>------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEBE9.CA5D9060--

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jul 14 10:28:00 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding query on pelletization of sludge
Message-ID: <v01540b02b593cad05b11@[204.131.233.39]>

Serena - I am sorry that I misunderstood your need - which is indeed quite
different from the experience of most on this list I must guess. The
calcination (or firing to high temperatures) without losing the arsenic
compounds sounds like a very difficult trick - based on my limited
experience, which is being married to a potter.

You are of course are correct that sand (SiO2) will normally be
part of a ceramic body - on the other hand there are many places in the
world where the naturally occuring clay is itself sufficient (needs no
extra SiO2). No need to add it if you don't need to.

It may be of course that the arsenic will combine harmlessly with
other ingredients - serving as a flux. But most of the sludge will almost
certainly vaporize as the transformations occur which change the physical
characteristics of the "clay" during firing. I just don't know anything
about the vaporization temperatures of arsenic compounds. Presumably it is
safe enough to have some trials during small scale testing.

It seems to me you are investigating an approach with considerable
difficulties - and those difficulties will mostly occur as you attempt to
fire (convert) the briquette to fix the arsenic.

As to your question on type of briquette, I gather from past
discussion on this list that the use of rollers is considerably less energy
intensive - and therefore cheaper - than extrusion techniques. Hope others
can help.

A growing, favorite form of clay these days contains a lot of
dissolved paper (something like a sludge perhaps). During firing, the
paper all disappears (volatizes) as CO2, leaving behind a clay that is
lighter and stronger (because cracks cannot propagate as well). Presumably
there are better clays than others, but I think this "papwer sludge" should
work with most clay bodies. The temperature you can fire to before total
meltdown will be well know to local crafts potters.

So I would just mix some of your "sludge" up with differing amounts
of local clays and fire in the normal local manner. I think you might get
up near 50% sludge - but maybe you can't achieve this high a percentage.
Then you test both the effluent gases during firing to see if arsenic is
being released - and you also grind up the finished "pots" to see if the
arsenic stayed behind. (Using chemical analysis techniques that I know
nothing about.)

It certainly would be nice if you could use the resultant "bricks"
for some safe purpose such as in construction. Having got this far with
the

Regardless of your success, we on this list would still like to
hear of anything you may learn on the subject of briquetting.

Best of luck.

Ron

>Help in agglomeration of arsenical sludges to prevent volatilization during
>calcination.
>
>No this is not household cooking. The volume requiring pelletizing would be
>in the order of tens to hundreds of tons per day. I would have thought
>naturally occurring sand would provide a source os SiO2?? What type of
>binder would you recommend? What type of operation - rolling mill? What
>size of pellet would you suggest?
>
>Serena Domvile
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
>To: <stoves@crest.org>
>Cc: Serena Domvile ] <domvile@attglobal.net>
>Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 2:26 PM
>Subject: Forwarding query on pelletization of sludge
>
>
>> Stovers: Anyone able to help?
>>
>> Serena: I'm sure it would be helpful for the members of "stoves" to know
>> what you have tried and the scale at which you are proposing to operate.
>> Is one intent to use the pellets for household cooking and heating? Can
>> you dry the sludge further before pelletization?
>>
>> The dominant binder material that I recall our list rererring to
>is
>> ordinary clay (not sand). But others have talked also about using
>organics
>> such as molasses (small amounts).
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> >From: "Serena Domvile" <domvile@attglobal.net>
>> >To: <stoves@crest.org>
>> >Subject: pelletization of sludges to prevent volatilization
>> >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:13:13 -0000
>> >Organization: Domvile y Asociados
>>
>> >I am interested in pelletizing volatile materials (450=BA C) to
>> >introduce them into a slag (1000=BAC) for stabilization via
>> >solidifacation without volatization of volatile materials contained
>> >within the pellets. What type of formulations would be appropriate for
>> >application on sludges with a 30% humidity level. Where should I begin
>> >looking? Are there low cost options available, perhaps using natual
>> >sand sources plus bentonite?
>> >
>> >Hope you can help me.
>> >
>> >Serena Domvile=20
>> >
>> >------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEBE9.CA5D9060
>> >Content-Type: text/html;
>> > charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> >
>> ><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>> ><HTML><HEAD>
>> ><META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
>> >http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
>> ><META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
>> ><STYLE></STYLE>
>> ></HEAD>
>> ><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
>> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am interested in pelletizing volatile
>=
>> >materials=20
>> >(450=BA C) to introduce them into a slag (1000=BAC) for stabilization =
>> >via=20
>> >solidifacation without volatization of volatile materials contained =
>> >within the=20
>> >pellets.  What type of formulations would be appropriate for =
>> >application on=20
>> >sludges with a 30% humidity level.  Where should I begin =
>> >looking? =20
>> >Are there low cost options available, perhaps using natual sand =
>> >sources=20
>> >plus bentonite?</FONT></DIV>
>> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
>> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope you can help me.</FONT></DIV>
>> ><DIV> </DIV>
>> ><DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Serena =
>> >Domvile</FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>> >
>> >------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BFEBE9.CA5D9060--
>>
>> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>> Golden, CO 80401, USA
>> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>> larcon@sni.net
>>
>>
>>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jul 14 10:28:26 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding Dan Kammen on job opportunity
Message-ID: <v01540b00b594c3bc1e8b@[204.131.233.39]>

Stovers:
This following job announcement from Dan Kammen could be a very
good position. It would be great if this could be filled by someone with a
stoves background. UC-Berkeley has about the best reputation of ANY school
in the US - and I am sure they would consider foreign applicants.

Ron

>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 08:29:28 -0400
>To: larcon@sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
>From: "Daniel M. Kammen" <dkammen@socrates.Berkeley.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Forwarding query on pelletization of sludge
>
>Hi Ron,
>Can you place this advertisement on the stovers list? I am the chair
>of the search committee, so if there are questions, I am delighted to
>talk about this exciting opportunity for an interdisciplinary environmental
>social scientist.
>
>Note the early closing date of October 15.
>
>thanks,
>
>dan
>
>
> Faculty Search:
> Environmental and Development Sociology
>
>The Energy and Resources Group (ERG) at the University of California,
>Berkeley seeks a Ph.D. in sociology, anthropology, geography or related
>discipline whose emphasis is on the social dimensions of energy, resources
>and/or the environment to fill a junior faculty, tenure track position
>starting 2001-02. ERG is a graduate program comprising natural and social
>scientists engaged in a multidisciplinary program of research, education,
>and public service on the social, economic, technical, and scientific
>dimensions of energy, resources, and the environment. The appointee will
>stay abreast of a broad range of social developments related to the
>program, undertake specific research (for example, on resource extraction
>conflicts, social movements, environmental justice, etc.), and seek an
>integrative perspective. Field research experience and the ability to
>teach field methods are critical. In addition to the course on research
>methods, the appointee will provide additional courses complementing her or
>his research interests, be encouraged to co-teach with faculty in the
>natural sciences or engineering, and oversee graduate seminars and
>student-initiated reading groups. The nature of the position and the
>qualities of the individual selected should lead to substantial public and
>professional service. A curriculum vitae, a letter articulating the scope
>of the applicants interest in and qualifications for this position, and a
>dossier including three letters of recommendation, should be sent to: Chair
>of the Social Science Search Committee, Energy and Resources Group, MC
>#3050, University of California at Berkeley, Berkeley, California
>94720-3050. Deadline for receipt is October 15, 2000. The University of
>California is an Equal Opportunity Affirmative Action Employer.

>thanks,
>
>dan

>Daniel M. Kammen
>Associate Professor of Energy and Society
>Director, Renewable and Appropriate Energy Laboratory (RAEL)
>Energy and Resources Group (ERG)
>310 Barrows Hall
>University of California
>Berkeley, CA 94720-3050
>
>Tel: 510-642-1139 (Office)
>Tel: 510-643-2243 (RAEL Phone)
>Tel: 510-642-1640 (ERG Front Desk)
>Fax: 510-642-1085 (ERG Fax)
>Email: dkammen@socrates.berkeley.edu
>Home Page http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~dkammen/
>RAEL http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~rael
>ERG http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~erg
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jul 14 10:28:34 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding query on Metal or Masonry Kiln designs
Message-ID: <v01540b01b594c5cd9aeb@[204.131.233.39]>

Stovers:
List member Wycliffe Nabutola Musungu has asked if anyone on the
list can provide detailed guidance on the design and operation of improved
modern kilns for making charcoal. Wycliffe says in a second clarifying
message:
"I am located
in Ngong Town, Rift Valley province in Kenya. We are trying to set up a
charcoal production unit together with Panafrican paper Mills in Kenya,
using their Pine tree Plantaion wastes, Leaves, Branches, stumps and roots."

Wycliffe: Again I apologize for the delay in getting your message out.
The "stoves" list is not usually devoted to charcoal making, but we have
several members with such a background and I hope they will contact you
with their own recommendations.
There is a good booklet on this subject from FAO and perhaps
someonee can remind us of that title and number.
Some of us have been pushing for ways to use the waste heat from
charcoal making and you may be in a position to make that happen while
making the charcoal (both in small family-sized cookstoves and in larger
facilities). Whatever you do, we hope you will make every effort to flare
rather than vent the gases - most charcoal-making kilns only flare.
List member Elsen Karstad in Nairobi would be well worth talking to.
Best of luck.

Ron

(The rest is from Wycliffe):

> Ron
>
>
> >Hi
> >
> >My name is Wycliffe Nabutola Musungu. I recently became a list
> >member. My company Known as REECON, Renewable Energy Engineering
> >Contaractors, is involved in the Fabrication and installation of
Renewable
> >Energy conversion systems. Presently we are trying to set up a Charcoal,
> >Charcoal Briquettes and Active Carbon production unit from Pine treee
> >stumps, Branches roots and Leaves. We would be very greatfull if we got
any
> >information that will assist us especially any body who has been involved
in
> >the production of charcoal from Pine trees and any Metal or Masonry Kiln
> >designs.
> >
> >ThankYou.
> >Musungu.
> >

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From english at adan.kingston.net Thu Jul 20 07:03:24 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal water heater
In-Reply-To: <008801bfeb6e$e9b13d20$a141cac3@preferrc>
Message-ID: <200007201103.HAA13780@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Stovers,
A drawing to Elsen's charcoal fired water heater has been added to
the stoves web page.
See the NEW section of
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Alex

> Ok, Ok- I know- charcoal to heat water? Why not wood?
>
> Well- two reasons for me- the heater is right next to my house & has the =
> desirable attribute of being smokeless using my slow-burning Vendor's =
> Waste Briquettes, and secondly, I do have a lot of cheap fuel =
> available...... I'm now over 5 tons per day VWB production.
>
> I designed the heater around a readily available used 70 litre metal =
> drum. After washing out the seemingly toxic residue, I welded through =
> (from top to bottom) five 1.25 inch dia. water pipes as chimneys- =
> centrally located in a tight cluster in the bottom and spread out =
> equidistant through the top of the drum- same pattern as number 5 on a =
> dice. Two small dia. pipes into the side of the tank- one at the bottom =
> and one at the top serve as 'cold in' (bottom) and 'hot out' (top) =
> There's also a vent pipe projecting from the top of the tank.
>
> The firebox is an enclosed extension below the tank- welded directly on- =
> with a large door with latch and six 2.5 cm dia. air inlet holes spaced =
> around the bottom. Charcoal is contained in a removable perforated steel =
> dish with 3 cm legs, and is placed within the firebox after being lit. =
> One load heats an entire tank of water to nearly boiling- and I've yet =
> to insulate the tank in any way.
>
> I've run a few trials on this, and had some lovely steamy baths. I won't =
> go into detail on how the plumbing is arranged- suffice to say it's all =
> rubber pipes. The efficiency calculates out at almost exactly 50%. I get =
> 70 litres of 85' C water from 2 kg of my charcoal. I'm sure it could =
> work with wood, but I have no reason to convert- especially as I use my =
> salvaged 'green' charcoal.
>
> My major motivation for the construction of this water heater is the =
> fact that we Kenyans no longer have the luxury of electrically heated =
> water- our electricity supply is rationed down to less than 30% at =
> present.
>
> Necessity is certainly the mother of invention in this case.
>
> Alex- I'll sent a drawing of the water heater to you as an e-mail =
> attachment- could you post it on the Stoves web-site please?
>
> Regards;
>
> elk
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Elsen L. Karstad , P.O. Box 24371 Nairobi Kenya
> elk@net2000ke.com tel/fax (+ 254 2) 884437
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFEB73.55835520
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
> <HTML>
> <HEAD>
>
> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
> http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
> </HEAD>
> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Ok, Ok- I know- charcoal to heat =
> water? Why not=20
> wood?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Well- two reasons for me- the heater is right next =
> to my house=20
> & has the desirable attribute of being smokeless using my =
> slow-burning=20
> Vendor's Waste Briquettes, and secondly, I do have a lot of cheap fuel=20
> available...... I'm now over 5 tons per day VWB production.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I designed the heater around a readily available =
> used 70 litre=20
> metal drum. After washing out the seemingly toxic residue, I welded =
> through=20
> (from top to bottom) five 1.25 inch dia. water pipes as chimneys- =
> centrally=20
> located in a tight cluster in the bottom and spread out equidistant =
> through the=20
> top of the drum- same pattern as number 5 on a dice. Two small dia. =
> pipes into=20
> the side of the tank- one at the bottom and one at the top serve as =
> 'cold in'=20
> (bottom) and 'hot out' (top) There's also a vent pipe projecting from =
> the top of=20
> the tank.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>The firebox is an enclosed extension below the tank- =
> welded=20
> directly on- with a large door with latch and six 2.5 cm dia. air inlet =
> holes=20
> spaced around the bottom. Charcoal is contained in a removable =
> perforated steel=20
> dish with 3 cm legs, and is placed within the firebox after being lit. =
> One load=20
> heats an entire tank of water to nearly boiling- and I've yet to =
> insulate the=20
> tank in any way.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I've run a few trials on this, and =
> had some=20
> lovely steamy baths. I won't go into detail on how the plumbing is =
> arranged-=20
> suffice to say it's all rubber pipes. The efficiency calculates out at =
> almost=20
> exactly 50%. I get 70 litres of 85' C water from 2 kg of my charcoal. =
> I'm sure=20
> it could work with wood, but I have no reason to convert- especially as =
> I use my=20
> salvaged 'green' charcoal.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My major motivation for the =
> construction of this=20
> water heater is the fact that we Kenyans no longer have the luxury of=20
> electrically heated water- our electricity supply is rationed down to =
> less than=20
> 30% at present.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Necessity is certainly the mother of =
> invention=20
> in this case.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Alex- I'll sent a drawing of the =
> water heater to=20
> you as an e-mail attachment- could you post it on the Stoves web-site=20
> please?</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Regards;</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
> size=3D2>elk<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Elsen L. Karstad , =
> P.O. Box=20
> 24371 Nairobi Kenya<BR><A=20
> href=3D"mailto:elk@net2000ke.com">elk@net2000ke.com</A>   =
>  =20
> tel/fax (+ 254 2) 884437</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
> ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BFEB73.55835520--
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>
>

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jul 21 00:01:21 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding Dr. Pimenta on Container Kiln
Message-ID: <v01540b01b59b8bf94964@[204.131.233.45]>

To Stovers: the following could be of help to many more list members than
Mr. Musungu (re: my forwarding on July 14), and so I felt it appropriate to
send to the full list, despite having a more limited request from Dr.
Pimenta that I hope was not intended too literally.

To Dr. Pimenta:

Some other comments and questions based on your excellent
informative write up of your new charcoaling process. There is no need to
reply on any question that is proprietary:

1. I am adding your name to the stoves list because I think there will be
other messages in reply and you then can (and I hope will) reply to all
through "stoves" - so others can hear your response most quickly and
directly. Let me know if and when I should remove your name from the
"stoves" list (but I hope you will stay with us, as we know the Brazilians
have much to teach us about charcoal production).

2. You say that the system you are proposing could sometimes be made
locally. Are you encouraging such local production or is the $5000 price
FOB a factory in Brazil? Is your process patented? (You seem to have
given enough information for others to copy your work. My guess is that
you have worked out many subsidiary problems that will make the $5000 a
good investment.)

3. It is not clear from the following description what the nature of the
pyrolysis gas stream is after condensation of the smoke from the pyrolysis
unit. It would seem that the moisture content should be very low after you
have reached 250o C, and that not everything will be condensable. But you
do not discuss flaring. Is flaring and some waste energy capture still
possible?

4. Can you tell us more also about your briquetting operations?

5. I use the term "stere" to mean one cubic meter. You have used some
almost - same terms ("stereo" and "estere"). Any differences?

6. Can your system start with wood of almost any moisture content - or do
you recommend some air drying first?

7. How about sizes of pieces? Method of stacking?

8. Much of our discussion on this list has been about being able to
perform charcoal-making in remote areas without using electricity. Have
you done any work that would allow natural buoyancy forces to do the smoke
transfer?

9. What is the economic value of the chemicals recovered relative to the
value of the charcoal? Can you conceive of doing this only with flaring of
these byproducts? Can you see using this as a means of only developing
flamable gases (such as for a village bakery or brickyard or pottery
operation) - and not of striving for the chemicals?

10. Please tell us more about the past history that led to this approach
(which I perceive to be quite new). Is it (or any predecessor work)
written up anywhere?

11. Please tell us more also about your laboratory and whether you are
doing any other similar interesting things.

Again - thank you very much for a very illuminating message. I am quite
sure this will develop further response. Ron

(The rest of this is unchanged from the message received yesterday from Dr.
Pimenta.)

Dear Dr. Ronal W. Larson

Could you please send the following text to Mr. Musungu?

Best regards

Prof. Dr. Alexandre Santos Pimenta
Departamento de Engenharia Florestal
Universidade Federal de Viçosa
36571-000 - Vicosa - MG
BRAZIL
Phone: 55 31 899 1200
55 31 9965 1282
FAX: 55 31 899 2478
E-mail: apimenta@mail.ufv.br

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Wycliffe Nabutola Musungu

We have developed a new type of kiln for charcoal making. Maybe it is
suitable to you. We have a briquetting process that uses wood tar as
agglutinant.

The container kiln was just released in commercial scale. Its cost is 5.000
american dollars each complete unit. It was planned to be operationally
simple and ecologically clean with the possibility to be builded anywhere.
Each kiln (4 esteres firewood capacity) is able to produce about 20 - 25
tons of charcoal per month substituting in this way 4 or 5 traditional
masonry kilns. Traditional mansonry kilns (8-9 esteres firewood capacity)
are able to produce only 3 or 4 tons per month. The production costs of
charcoal are decreased by 30% as minimum with this new technology. Other
advantage stands on the fact that the kiln can be moved from one place to
another without any problem.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Near 9 million tons of charcoal are consumed every year in Brazil and about
60% of this overall amount is produced by using wood from Eucalyptus
planted forests as raw material, basically from the species E. grandis.
Brazil produces 20% of the world charcoal. Most industrial wood
carbonisation plants currently operating in Brazil is oriented to charcoal
production by means of partial combustion masonry kilns that do not recover
the by-product gases and condensable compounds. In fact, mass and energy
yields are very low in the conventional pyrolysis kilns, about 33 and 50%,
respectively, specially when by-products are not recovered for recycling.

HOW DOES THE CONTAINER KILN WORK?

Each industrial plant works with 10 kilns reaching a production of 200 -
250 tons of charcoal by month. Firewood is placed into a metallic container
that can contain about 4 stereos cubic meters. The container is 2.20 meters
high and has 1.60 meters of internal diameter. It has a top metallic
stopper and a metallic basis full of small holes. After the container is
full it is raised up by a 2,5 ton crane and placed in an insulating well.

THE CARBONIZATION PROCESS:

The insulating well has a combustion chamber at the lower position where
woody wastes (small pieces, tortuous wood and the like) are burned. The
combustion of the wastes generates hot gases that get into the container
passing through two bottom holes and transfer heat to the wood promoting
its thermal decomposition. The combustion is carried out during about 45 -
60 minutes that is enough to the system reach 250 - 280 oC. At this time,
the combustion chamber is closed (it has a small metallic door) and the
process is almost self sustained needing minimal heat inputs. The smoke
generated by the pyrolysis bed is driven off the container by the smoke
exhausting system and conducted to condensers.

The carbonization process is monitored by means of thermocouples and when
the internal temperature of the container reaches 500 oC, the container is
taken away from the well and left outside for cooling. The charcoal cooling
is a fast step (10 - 15 hours) because the heat can be easily dissipated
through the metallic sheet. Each kiln works using three containers. When
one carbonization ends, the hot container is left to cooling and another
container loaded with firewood is placed into the well. The process starts
again and when this new carbonization end there will be another wood loaded
container ready to be pyrolysed. Meanwhile that, the charcoal from the
first run will be cool and ready for unloading in appropriate packages and
the cycles go on. So then, the charcoal production system is non-continuous
but can work if it was continuous.

The smoke exhausting apparatus guarantees a perfect convection movement and
heat transfers between the hot gases from the combustion chamber and the
woody load. Smoke exhausting system has as principal parts a small motor
(1.5 HP), which moves a fan. In this way, the hot gases from the combustion
chamber rise up to the top the container changing heat with the wood and
after this being cooler, they go down and are forced through a central
chimney by the action of the fan. After the combustion chamber is closed
the fan continue working to exhaust the pyrolysis smoke. The smoke is
driven off through a pair of cyclonical condensers leaving back the liquid
products which contains the major pollutants (methanol, acetic acid, wood
tar, policyclic aromatic hycrocarbons and several others) responsible for
harmful effects on respiratory health of charcoal makers.

THE CARBONIZATION CYCLE:

- 2 carbonizations can be carried out in 24 hours (about 8 - 10 hours each
one) and the each container kiln can substitute 6 or 7 conventional masonry
kilns with 8 - 10 stereos cubic meters capacity.

ADVANTAGES OF THE CONTAINER KILN:

- As the temperatures into the container never rise up 500 oC, the
metallic
sheet is not corroded and can stand for years without needing any repair.
In the earlier metallic kilns, the combustion and carbonization occurred in
the same time and space inside the kiln. So then, the internal reaction
temperature could reach levels as high as 800 - 900 oC. The action of high
temperatures besides deform the sheet, also catalysed the eroding action of
organic acids present in the smoke reducing drastically the work lifetime
of the metallic kilns. These kind of kilns were rapidly wasted out in
Brazil in the 70's regarding their poor durability traduced by eroding and
twisting of the metallic parts.

- The whole system can be build up by using simple and cheap construction
materials. The metallic container is made with sheets of iron. Also the
condensers are made of similar thinner sheets.

- Air pollution can be reduced to admissible levels because of the smoke
condensation apparatus.

- The whole container kiln; metallic container, masonry well structure,
combustion chamber, roof, 2.5 ton crane, track and poles crane, motor, fan,
has a total cost that reach 5.000 US$ as maximum. The system described here
is more expensive when compared to the conventional masonry kilns, but
among other advantages shows good durability (about 10 years) dismissing
the need of continuous repairs as required by the masonry type.

- Wood loading and charcoal unloading are automated.

- Make more friendly the charcoal making process. The charcoal maker does
not have to remain night and day watching the kiln and the work can be
carried out in 8 - 10 hours journeys. Besides that, the charcoal maker gets
no long exposed to air pollutants and charcoal powder.

- The charcoal quality is rather good and is significantly improved and it
can be obtained free of earth, stones and other strange bodies that always
are present when charcoal is made by using masonry kilns and other
rudimentary carbonization systems.

- A same crane system can attend several sequential kilns reducing the
installation costs.

- The charcoal yields can reach 35 - 38% based on initial dry wood mass
against less of 33% in the best masonry kilns.

- Wood tar is recovered and can be used as agglutinant in charcoal
briquettes making, preservative agents for poles and fence poles, and other
uses.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jul 21 12:20:39 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Further Questions for Dr. Pimenta
Message-ID: <v01540b01b59e0ffc2780@[204.131.233.18]>

To Dr. Pimenta:

I am still intrigued by your novel charcoaling approach - and so
have these additional questions, after thinking about it overnight:

1. During the rise from 200 oC to 500 oC (after the "...combustion chamber
is closed..") , can you estimate the air leakage into the pyrolysis unit?
That is, do you perceive that this exothermic reaction period takes place
entirely without outside air flow?

2. Have you ever had an ability to observe this exothermic period through
a window or other means of observing what is going on inside (color
intensity, color changes vs time, direction of pyrolysis front movement,
etc)? Can you tell anything from runs that might have been carried on for
too short a period?

3. You described a 1-hour combustion period and a 10-15 hour cooling
period - but did not give the time for this important intermediate
pyrolysis period. If this were perhaps about 6 hours, then one crew could
handle one load per shift. But perhaps it takes longer, so each shift is
working on several loads simultaneously? Could you clarify this time
issue?

4. Presumably a fair amount of energy is released during this exothermic
pyrolysis period (as well as released during the cool-down). Has your
laboratory explored possible uses of this heat? (such as for baking, water
purification, etc in a village setting?) Could you compare the magnitude
of this heat release to the energy release during the initial startup wood
combustion phase (ie have you conducted and say more about an energy
balance?)

5. You have described the use of the 2.5 ton crane to move the container
twice (in and out of the "insulating well"). Do you think it would ever be
possible and/or advantageous to instead move the "insulating well" (perhaps
on tracks)? What sort of R-values are needed for this "well"?

6. Could you describe more on the magnitude and required skill levels of
the work crew? In traditional charcoaling, this can be a one-person
operation (over up to a week or more) - and maybe here also (but I guess
not).

7. Probably the #1 key in your approach is making the geometric changes
at the two times when the temperature is appropriate (your 250 and 500 oC
times). How critical or forgiving is this timing? Do you find that one
thermocouple is sufficient - or do you need several?

8. Since "stoves" is a list devoted to cook stoves, I must lastly ask if
you think there is a potential in your charcoal-making system to provide a
village-level gas supply system (like wood-derived "city-gas" in the old
days) - which might be used for cooking and lighting? Might local
"utilities" be established that might thereby lower the cost of the
charcoal, while also giving a more healthful indoor air quality (IAQ)
environment and fewer global warming exhaust gases?

Thanks in advance for any further insights you might have along these lines.

Again, I want to congratulate you on a very wonderful addition to our list
discussions. Please do not feel you have to reveal anything that is still
proprietary.

Ron

ps - This is also to welcome back Professor-emeritus Ron West to the
"stoves" list (previous problems with his list server) - who is great on
this sort of topic.

From larcon at sni.net Fri Jul 21 13:17:55 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding request on charcoal (from India)
Message-ID: <v01540b0ab59e2708a04d@[204.131.233.21]>

Stovers: Perhaps someone nearby (Priya?) in India could especially assist.

Professor Basu:
I believe this is the first request we have had along these
lines,and your expertise can perhaps be helpful. Our list doesn't sound
like quite the right list but a number of us on this list are certainly
interested in charcoal - and finding good subsidiary uses.

Perhaps you or your student could answer these questions:

1. Why should a briquette be considered for pollution control?
Typically we see granules used for water purification. - which might come
from pulverizing charcoal from almost any source - not limiting to sawdust?

2. Is the intended use for water?

3. What sort of demand is there - and what sort of delivery system
are you proposing?

4. If a small amount (perhaps a kG) of ordinary, red-hot,
just-produced charcoal was simply extinguished in a pail of polluted water,
would you believe that there would be any significant cleanup of the water
(after which the charcoal could be dried and used for cooking)?

5. Should there be use of some sort of "activated" charcoal for
this purpose?.

6. Please let me know if you would like your name added to the
stoves list membership (of about 185 persons around the globe, some
receiving only "stoves-digest"). We aren't exactly the right place for
pollution control - but we do have some periodic discussion of charcoal.

Ron (The rest from Professor Basu)

>
>Dear Sir,
>One of my students is working in field of pollution control. We are
>using saw dust charcoal as an adsorbent for the removal of organic
>pollutants.

>Would you please help us to supply the information for producing pellet
>of charcoal using briquetting process? What binder do you suggest?
>We will be waiting for you kind reply.

>With regards,
>J K Basu
>Asstt. Professor
>Depptt. of Chemical Engg.
>IIT Kharagpur 721302, India
"J. K. Basu" <jkb@che.iitkgp.ernet.in>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From karve at wmi.co.in Fri Jul 21 23:11:18 2000
From: karve at wmi.co.in (karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding request on charcoal (from India)
In-Reply-To: <v01540b0ab59e2708a04d@[204.131.233.21]>
Message-ID: <3979115E.3BAF4239@wmi.co.in>

Dear Prof. Basu,
I think I have the briquetting machine for you. We have developed a hand
operated extruder type briquetting machine based on a hand operated meat
mincer. We can send you a machine from here. The cost of the machine would be
around Rs.3000/- (i.e. about US$ 65-70). You can also convert the machine into
an automated one by connecting it to a half horsepower motor. The fabricated
automated version (including the motor, fanbelt, stand) would cost about
Rs.10,000/-. Once you see how the hand operated version works, you may be able
to convert it to the automated one using the fabrication workshop at IIT.
As a binder for the briquettes, we add clay (black cotton soil). Addition
of rice paste, paste of waste grain, or other starchy materials also works
well. Commercial gums can also be used, but that is a bit costly.
I would also go with Ron in wanting to know more about your project of
using charcoal dust for pollution control. I tried using the char powder
produced from loose biomass as a water purifier in both the powder and
briquette form, but it did not work. My search of information led me to believe
that this works only for the so-called activated char. A successful alternative
use that we have found for the ordinary char powder is as a potting medium for
plant nurseries.
Regards,
Priyadarshini Karve

"Ronal W. Larson" wrote:

> Stovers: Perhaps someone nearby (Priya?) in India could especially assist.
>
> Professor Basu:
> I believe this is the first request we have had along these
> lines,and your expertise can perhaps be helpful. Our list doesn't sound
> like quite the right list but a number of us on this list are certainly
> interested in charcoal - and finding good subsidiary uses.
>
> Perhaps you or your student could answer these questions:
>
> 1. Why should a briquette be considered for pollution control?
> Typically we see granules used for water purification. - which might come
> from pulverizing charcoal from almost any source - not limiting to sawdust?
>
> 2. Is the intended use for water?
>
> 3. What sort of demand is there - and what sort of delivery system
> are you proposing?
>
> 4. If a small amount (perhaps a kG) of ordinary, red-hot,
> just-produced charcoal was simply extinguished in a pail of polluted water,
> would you believe that there would be any significant cleanup of the water
> (after which the charcoal could be dried and used for cooking)?
>
> 5. Should there be use of some sort of "activated" charcoal for
> this purpose?.
>
> 6. Please let me know if you would like your name added to the
> stoves list membership (of about 185 persons around the globe, some
> receiving only "stoves-digest"). We aren't exactly the right place for
> pollution control - but we do have some periodic discussion of charcoal.
>
> Ron (The rest from Professor Basu)
>
> >
> >Dear Sir,
> >One of my students is working in field of pollution control. We are
> >using saw dust charcoal as an adsorbent for the removal of organic
> >pollutants.
>
> >Would you please help us to supply the information for producing pellet
> >of charcoal using briquetting process? What binder do you suggest?
> >We will be waiting for you kind reply.
>
> >With regards,
> >J K Basu
> >Asstt. Professor
> >Depptt. of Chemical Engg.
> >IIT Kharagpur 721302, India
> "J. K. Basu" <jkb@che.iitkgp.ernet.in>
>
> Ronal W. Larson, PhD
> 21547 Mountsfield Dr.
> Golden, CO 80401, USA
> 303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
> larcon@sni.net
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

begin:vcard
n:Karve;Priyadarshini
tel;fax:-
tel;home:91 020 5423258
tel;work:91 020 5442217/4390348/4392284
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://members.tripod.com/ARTI_India/index.html
org:Appropriate Rural Technology Institue (ARTI)
version:2.1
email;internet:karve@wmi.co.in
title:Member
note:ARTI is an NGO undertaking research projects to study, develop, standardise, implement, commercialise and popularise innovative appropriate rural technologies with special emphasis on making traditional rural enterprises more profitable and generating new employment opportunities through introduction of novel business possibilities in rural areas.
adr;quoted-printable:;;2nd Floor, Maninee Apartments,=0D=0AOpposite Pure Foods Co., Dhayarigaon,;Pune,;Maharashtra;411 041;India
fn:Dr. Priyadarshini Karve
end:vcard

From larcon at sni.net Sat Jul 22 00:22:12 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding more on Container kiln
Message-ID: <v01540b01b59eb775f8f5@[204.131.233.34]>

Stovers:
The following are the answers to my first set of 11 questions
addressed to Professor Pimenta. I continue to be very impressed.

Professor Pimenta:
I don't at all mind sending these on to the full list - but you can
alternatively simply address your responses directly to "stoves@crest.org"

Ron (The remainder has only a few small changes - but interspersed I have
put in a few added RWL _ COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS - ALWAYS MINE IN CAPS)

Dear Dr. Larson

1. I am adding your name to the stoves list because I think there will be
>other messages in reply and you then can (and I hope will) reply to all
>through "stoves" - so others can hear your response most quickly and
>directly. Let me know if and when I should remove your name from the
>"stoves" list (but I hope you will stay with us, as we know the Brazilians
>have much to teach us about charcoal production).

Thanks for your suggestion. It will be a pleasure to take part on stovers
technical discussions.

RWL - I HOPE OTHERS WILL ALSO JOIN IN.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>2. You say that the system you are proposing could sometimes be made
>locally. Are you encouraging such local production or is the $5000 price
>FOB a factory in Brazil? Is your process patented? (You seem to have
>given enough information for others to copy your work. My guess is that
>you have worked out many subsidiary problems that will make the $5000 a
>good investment.)

In the early times when the container kiln technology was being spread, I
used to do it, i.e. encouraging local production. However, since any region
in Brazil has a typical trend on building things, the kilns always were
released with some change relating to the original design. One charcoal
maker changed the volume of the container while another installed a fan out
of specification. This was enough to turn things really bad when I had to
teach the workers how to operate the kiln. Changing original
characteristics, the kiln dynamic gets rather changed in terms of pyrolisis
time, charcoal yields and quality and the like. So then, the project was
transferred to a private company that is now in charge on building kilns in
a uniform way. Now we can teach any kind of operator, despite of language,
country or culture how to conduct a charcoal making run.

The process is not patented but the rights on building and selling belong
to Polidryer that is a company encharged to trade the kilns. The process is
simple and anyone can make charcoal by using it. The kiln is available for
everyone, but to build and operate a kiln like that it's not so easy as
could seem in a first approach. From my personal experience I can say that
in the most cases, even the charcoal maker building his own kilns, he will
need at least some simple instructions from us that will save a lot of
months (believe me) of trying to make charcoal for himself. Once he learned
the carbonization process he can transfer the technology to other people. I
don't care about it, because my project has a social target too. Imagine
that in Brazil (like in many other countries), a significant part of the
charcoal makers are people living immersed in hunger, poverty and a very
harmful air pollution, working hard every day to earn only a few dollars
when month ends. My interest is to see those people having another concept
about charcoal making. One of these days, carbonization will be here an
industrial activity just like any other and not anymore the rudimentary
processes we have right now.

RWL - I THINK YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT INTERESTED POTENTIAL
PURCHASERS SHOULD STILL CONTACT YOU. BUT IF NOT, YOU MIGHT WANT TO GIVE THE
CONTACT INFORMATION FOR POLIDRYER.
IN YOUR LAST SENTENCE, YOU ARE IMPLYING NEW PROCESSES THAT WILL BE
FUN TO HEAR ABOUT IN THE FUTURE. THERE ARE OTHERS ON THE LIST (NOT MYSELF)
WHO ALSO ARE WORKING IN THIS LARGER SCALE DIRECTION. IT IS NICE TO HEAR
ABOUT YOUR "SOCIAL TARGET".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>3. It is not clear from the following description what the nature of the
>pyrolysis gas stream is after condensation of the smoke from the pyrolysis
>unit. It would seem that the moisture content should be very low after you
>have reached 250o C, and that not everything will be condensable. But you
>do not discuss flaring. Is flaring and some waste energy capture still
>possible?

It's possible to do both things.

FIRST: you can condense the liquids from the pyrolysis bed by passing them
thru a condenser system. The remaining non condensable gases that escapes
from the condenser are burned in a combustion chamber eliminating the
residual pollutants. In this way, you have pyrolysis liquids like tar and
others and the heat generated by burning the non condensable can be
available to some other use (steam generation, wood drying, electricity, etc).

SECOND: you can drive off the gas from the bed pyrolysis straight inside a
combustion chamber generating only heating for steam generation, wood
drying, electricity, etc.

In both cases, the pollutant gases from carbonization are eliminated.

RWL - THIS SECOND PART CORRESPONDS WELL WITH MANY PRIOR COMMENTS ON
THIS LIST. THE GENERATION OF CHEMICALS HAS OF COURSE BEEN OFTEN PRACTICED
- BUT NOT USUALLY WITH FLARING AND YOU ARE THE FIRST TO BROACH THAT TOPIC
ON THIS LIST.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>4. Can you tell us more also about your briquetting operations?

The briquetting process optimized here uses the wood tar recovered in the
carbonization process as agglutinant. We can produce briquetes with size,
shape, chemical composition, density and mechanical strength previously
defined it depending on the final user. This way, it's possible to make
briquettes with the quality required by the final user: metal sector,
carbides production, high grade electrodes, cement or household uses. By
working with charcoal you know that it's virtually impossible to furnish a
product belonging fine tuned properties.

Density of the briquettes made according our process can reach up to three
times the normal density of charcoal itself. Briquettes densities are in
the range of 600 to 750 kg per solid cubic meter. The briquettes for metal
sector have high mechanical strength (80 kgf/cm2) and high density (above
700 kg/m3) while those ones for household uses are weaker and lighter since
the use requirements don't include any need of high strength.

RWL - WE HAVE HAD SOME INQUIRIES AND DIALOG ON WHETHER TO EXTRUDE
(CYLINDERS) OR COMPRESS INTO "PILLOW" SHAPES. WHICH DO YOU PREFER AND WHY?

IF YOU USE CLAY IN YOUR BRIQUETTES (AS MANY DO), WHAT MAXIMUM
PERCENTAGE DO YOU RECOMMEND FOR DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>5. I use the term "stere" to mean one cubic meter. You have used some
>almost - same terms ("stereo" and "estere"). Any differences?

No, there's not any differences. The meaning is the same. We use the term
"estereo".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>6. Can your system start with wood of almost any moisture content - or do
>you recommend some air drying first?

You have to use firewood that was been previously air dried. In Brazil,
after harvesting, the piles stay at the field for at least three months
until the moisture content (dry basis) reaches 15 - 20%. If you work with
green firewood the energy yields will get rather depressed since you will
be stealing some part of the wood heat and spending it as additional energy
for water evaporation.

RWL - IT WOULD ALSO SEEM THAT USING GREEN WOOD WOULD MEAN THAT SOME
PORTION OF THE PROCESS MIGHT NOT ALLOW FLARING - AND THEREFORE MORE
POLLUTION. I LIKE THE IDEA OF AIR DRYING.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>7. How about sizes of pieces? Method of stacking?

The pieces have to be 2,10 meters long just shorter than the container height.

RWL - IN THE US AND SOME OTHER COUNTRIES, THIS WOULD BE WRITTEN "2.10"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>8. Much of our discussion on this list has been about being able to
>perform charcoal-making in remote areas without using electricity. Have
>you done any work that would allow natural buoyancy forces to do the smoke
>transfer?

Some of the members of the Dendronergia Discussion List has suggested the
inclusion of solar panels to fill this blank but in fact here in Brazil our
interest on this is minimum because we have a good availability of cheap
and widespread hydroelectricity (95% of the overall electric energy).

RWL: CAN YOU TELL US MORE ABOUT THE DENDROENERGIA LIST? IS IT IN
SPANISH OR PORTUGUESE?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>9. What is the economic value of the chemicals recovered relative to the
>value of the charcoal? Can you conceive of doing this only with flaring of
>these byproducts? Can you see using this as a means of only developing
>flamable gases (such as for a village bakery or brickyard or pottery
>operation) - and not of striving for the chemicals?

This is a difficult question. Until the present moment, industrial uses of
wood tar and other chemicals are just being developed. I have patented the
use of tar oils as raw material in synthesing free phenol phenolic
adhesives for wood bonding (water resistant particleboard and water boiling
proof plywoods. The process is being now transferred to industrial scale
but we don't have exact impact on cost reduction yet. Other uses for wood
tar comprises the briquettes production, enriched wood tar and creosote for
fence poles treating, etc, etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>10. Please tell us more about the past history that led to this approach
>(which I perceive to be quite new). Is it (or any predecessor work)
>written up anywhere?

The past history that is my rock basis is the kilns developed here in our
laboratory in the past thirty years. My department is part of an university
that is in the state of Minas Gerais. Our state consumes 85% of the overall
charcoal of Brazil. We have the heart of iron of the country because the
iron ore mines and the metalwork companies are all essentially here.
Research on carbonization and its by-products is a local interest and our
university commands the national scene on this scientific field. My M.B.
and Ph.D. advisors have perfected the traditional kilns to a very
refined state. But they did not get solutions to the very low cooling of
the traditional kilns and the large carbonization cycle. Like this, what
was a brand new thing ten years ago right now is only junk used to teach
the students about traditional and pollutant charcoal making activities. I
had the luck to be supported by giants shoulders and combine the
characteristics of the old kilns in a system which is efficient and simple.
I can say that where many others have failed I got succeed = (as example,
see the quick rise and fall of the expensive europeans carbonization
systems in Brazil). The Lambiotte system and others were a clamourous
hotshot among us.

RWL - AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THIS LIST IS ROGERIO MIRANDA (COORDINATOR
ALSO OF THE SPANISH LANGUAGE "BIOENERGIA" LIST), NOW LIVING IN NICARAGUA.
I AM QUITE SURE ROGERIO IS FROM MINAS GERAIS AS WELL. HE HAS TOLD ME
ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE BOTH FROM A VERY BEAUTIFUL PLACE.
PLEASE LET US KNOW WHEN THE MATERIAL IS WRITTEN UP.
ALSO YOU MAY WANT TO CONSIDER A PRESENTATION ON THIS KILN FOR THE
NOVEMBER STOVES (AND SOME CHARCOAL-MAKING) CONFERENCE IN PUNE INDIA IN LATE
NOVEMBER, AS DESCRIBED IN OUR LIST ARCHIVES IN MESSAGES FROM DR. PRIYA
KARVE.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>11. Please tell us more also about your laboratory and whether you are
>doing any other similar interesting things.

Our research guidelines include:

- Wood technolgy;

- Wood chemistry;

- Wood carbonization and gasification;

- Renewable wood adhesives based on woody biomass pyrolysis oils and
vegetable tannins;

- Recycling of wood industries wastes (wood briquetting, tar recycling,
sawmill wastes recycling, etc);

- Kinetics studies on curing of phenolic adhesives by differential scanning
calorimetry;

- Air quality monitoring in charcoal making industrial plants;

- Thermogravimetric analysis.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Best regards

Prof. Alexandre Santos Pimenta

RWL - THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SUCH COMPLETE ANSWERS. I NOW LOOK
FORWARD TO HEARING ANSWERS TO MY SECOND SET OF QUESTIONS. I APOLGIZE IN
ADVANCE FOR CAUSING YOU TO GO TO SO MUCH EFFORT, BUT YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE
GREAT SKILLS AND ARE WILLING TO HELP OTHERS.

RON

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From karve at wmi.co.in Sat Jul 22 12:59:59 2000
From: karve at wmi.co.in (karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Forwarding more on Container kiln
In-Reply-To: <v01540b01b59eb775f8f5@[204.131.233.34]>
Message-ID: <3979D42C.7632E5AE@wmi.co.in>

Prof. Pimenta,
I followed the description of your charcoaling process with interest. About an
year ago, as a part of a project I developed a kiln for charring of dry leaves of
sugarcane which essentially had the same idea - the biomass goes into a metallic
container with holes at one end, the container is put inside an oven such that the
holes open in the firebox. My associates continued the development of the kiln,
and our present design may be called a rather crude and miniature version of the
multi-container kiln that you have described. We use containers of 1 kg capacity
rather than tons of biomass, and all the operations are done manually. The char
yield is about 20%, and we are not doing anything to extract any other chemicals
from the process.
We are recommending that the kiln should be used in a continuous batch
process. The charring process in this technique is highly labour intensive, but
the labour cost can be kept down if it is operated by the members of the
entrepreneur family. This is possible in this part of India. We have itinerant
families of sugarcane farm workers, who can collect and convert to char, the dry
sugarcane leaves left behind after harvesting the canes. They can use the char
briquettes as a secondary source of income. The farmers, in any case, have no use
for the sugarcane trash and just burn it off in the field itself.
As I have described in another recent message, we have an extruder type
briquetting machine. We have found that the selling price of the briquettes is
affordable to the potential users and yet yields a comfortable profit for the
entrepreneur family. There is a lot of demand for the unbriqutted char itself as a
potting medium in plant nurseries and kitchen gardens in the cities.
My associates and I always talked a lot about introducing automation in the
process and scaling up to make it into a large-scale commercial set up. However,
paucity of funds and manpower held us back. We would certainly be interested in
building a kiln of the type that you have described.
It would be wonderful if you could participate in the International Conference
on Biomass-based Fuels and Cooking Systems (BFCS-2000) in November. I am sending
you the conference announcement separately. Perhaps with your help we can build a
container kiln as an exhibit at the conference!
With regards,
Priyadarshini Karve.

From elk at net2000ke.com Sat Jul 29 03:13:17 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (KARSTAD)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse
Message-ID: <200007290718.KAA00473@net2000ke.com>

Stovers;

I'm sitting next to a small 'jiko' made of fired clay from the Nandi Hills
district of Kenya. In it, burning without smoke, smell or sparks is a double
handfull of charcoal briquettes I've recently made from bagasse- the fibrous
residue of pressed sugarcane.

After rapidly sun-drying around 25% moisture from the bulky, light coloured
fibrous/flakey bagasse on the open ground, we carbonised 400 kg in our
ceramic-bed kilns (previously described). Carbonisation was a joy- the
lighter and larger particles of bagass carbonised extremely rapidly in my
system, primarily due to larger particle size and lower density. There was a
slight smell of burnt sugar. The volatiles flared completely in the
combustion chamber/chimney. Bagasse is much easier to carbonise than the
sawdust this system was originally designed for.

The conversion rate to charcoal powder was 31% from the air-dried material.
Sawdust conversion, by comparison, is 36% in this kiln.

The briquettes, produced via low-pressure extrusion, are less dense than my
Vendor's Waste Briquettes made from salvaged wood charcoal dust. With 20%
clay as binder, the sun-dried bagasse charcoal briquette (BCB?) is
gratifyingly hard; comparable with lump charcoal made from softwood. BCB is
harder than the sawdust charcoal briquettes I've produced to date. I wonder
why that would be?

Ash residue is 27%, and burning time is short- also on par with softwood
derived charcoal- exhibiting a quick and easy ignition and short time to
full heat. Ash remains in the original briquette shape; fragile and light
tan in colour.

This small success opens up some big possibilities! Pity that the closest
substantial supply of discarded bagasse is over 200 km from where I am
located in Nairobi. The cost of transporting raw bagass 200 km obviates any
Nairobi-based BCB production.

O.K.- back to the Jiko to warm up- it's COLD here in Nairobi during August.

From jessie at vip.net Sat Jul 29 14:53:05 2000
From: jessie at vip.net (Jessie Smythe)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <200007291853.LAA19586@secure.crest.net>

How about opening a Branch factory near the bagasse location with a good
manager in charge --

Jessie

----------
>From: "KARSTAD" <elk@net2000ke.com>
>To: Stoves <stoves@crest.org>
>Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse
>Date: Sat, Jul 29, 2000, 12:09 AM
>

> Stovers;
>
> I'm sitting next to a small 'jiko' made of fired clay from the Nandi Hills
> district of Kenya. In it, burning without smoke, smell or sparks is a double
> handfull of charcoal briquettes I've recently made from bagasse- the fibrous
> residue of pressed sugarcane.
>
>

From jovick at island.net Sat Jul 29 14:54:28 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: New e- mail addresse
Message-ID: <200007291854.LAA19691@secure.crest.net>

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:27:28 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF876.0C8782A0"
X-Priority: 3
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X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF876.0C8782A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

July 28 2000

Due to poor service with my e-mail server I have a new adresse

jovick@island.net Thanks

John Flottvik
Phone 250-949-979
Fax 250-949-9722

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF876.0C8782A0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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July 28 2000

Due to poor service with my e-mail = server I have a=20 new adresse

<3d.htm>jovick<3d.htm>@island.net = =20 Thanks

John Flottvik
Phone 250-949-979
Fax =20 250-949-9722

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BFF876.0C8782A0--

From arcate at msn.com Sat Jul 29 15:30:31 2000
From: arcate at msn.com (Jim Arcate)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse
In-Reply-To: <200007290718.KAA00473@net2000ke.com>
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Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:13:24 -1000
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Dear elk:

>>>This small success opens up some big possibilities!=20

Would you (and the sugar mills) be interested in considering a bagasse =
(and sawdust) briquette plant (or pelleting plant) located at the sugar =
mill including torrefaction of the briquettes ? Using Airless Drying as =
described on my Transnational Technology web site www.techtp.com

See: Efficiency test for bench unit torrefaction and characterization =
of torrefied biomass
http://www.techtp.com/GCA%20Paper.htm

"Torrefaction of briquettes is a feasible alternative to improve their =
energy properties, increasing calorific value and avoiding moisture =
absorption, facilitating handling and storage."=20

"During torrefaction the briquettes undergoes changes in chemical =
composition, the carbon content increases at the expense of oxygen and =
hydrogen content, provoking decreases in H/C and O/C ratios (table 2). =
Torrefied briquettes remain unaffected on immersion in water during 17 =
days, whereas a normal briquette quickly disintegrates in 10 minutes."

What is the local market for torrefied bagasse (or wood) briquettes ? =20

Jim Arcate
Transnational Technology
3447 Pipa Place
Honolulu, HI 96822
www.techtp.com

----- Original Message -----=20

From: KARSTAD=20
To: Stoves=20
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 9:09 PM
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse

Stovers;

I'm sitting next to a small 'jiko' made of fired clay from the Nandi =
Hills
district of Kenya. In it, burning without smoke, smell or sparks is a =
double
handfull of charcoal briquettes I've recently made from bagasse- the =
fibrous
residue of pressed sugarcane.=20

After rapidly sun-drying around 25% moisture from the bulky, light =
coloured
fibrous/flakey bagasse on the open ground, we carbonised 400 kg in our
ceramic-bed kilns (previously described). Carbonisation was a joy- the
lighter and larger particles of bagass carbonised extremely rapidly in =
my
system, primarily due to larger particle size and lower density. There =
was a
slight smell of burnt sugar. The volatiles flared completely in the
combustion chamber/chimney. Bagasse is much easier to carbonise than =
the
sawdust this system was originally designed for.

The conversion rate to charcoal powder was 31% from the air-dried =
material.
Sawdust conversion, by comparison, is 36% in this kiln.

The briquettes, produced via low-pressure extrusion, are less dense =
than my
Vendor's Waste Briquettes made from salvaged wood charcoal dust. With =
20%
clay as binder, the sun-dried bagasse charcoal briquette (BCB?) is
gratifyingly hard; comparable with lump charcoal made from softwood. =
BCB is
harder than the sawdust charcoal briquettes I've produced to date. I =
wonder
why that would be?

Ash residue is 27%, and burning time is short- also on par with =
softwood
derived charcoal- exhibiting a quick and easy ignition and short time =
to
full heat. Ash remains in the original briquette shape; fragile and =
light
tan in colour.

This small success opens up some big possibilities! Pity that the =
closest
substantial supply of discarded bagasse is over 200 km from where I am
located in Nairobi. The cost of transporting raw bagass 200 km =
obviates any
Nairobi-based BCB production.

O.K.- back to the Jiko to warm up- it's COLD here in Nairobi during =
August.

elk

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Dear elk:

>>>This=20 small success opens up some big possibilities!

Would you (and the sugar mills) be = interested=20 in considering a bagasse
(and = sawdust) briquette plant=20 (or pelleting plant) located at the
sugar mill = including torrefaction of=20 the briquettes ? Using Airless
Drying as described on my Transnational=20 Technology web site
<3d.htm>www.techtp.<3d.htm>com

See: Efficiency test for = bench unit=20 torrefaction and characterization
of torrefied biomass

"Torrefaction of=20 briquettes is a feasible alternative to improve their
energy properties, = increasing calorific value and avoiding moisture
absorption, = facilitating=20 handling and storage." <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX
=3D O=20 />

"During torrefaction the briquettes = undergoes=20 changes in chemical
composition, the carbon content increases at the = expense of=20 oxygen and
hydrogen content, provoking decreases in H/C and O/C ratios (table 2).
Torrefied = briquettes=20 remain unaffected on immersion in water during 17
days, whereas a normal = briquette quickly disintegrates in 10 minutes."

What is the local market for = torrefied bagasse=20 (or wood) briquettes ?

Transnational Technology
3447 Pipa Place
Honolulu, HI=20 96822
<3d.htm>www.techtp.<3d.htm>com

----- Original Message -----
KARSTAD
To: <3d.htm>Stoves
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 = 9:09 PM
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes = from=20 Bagasse

Stovers;

I'm sitting next to a small 'jiko' made = of=20 fired clay from the Nandi
Hills
district of Kenya. In it, burning = without=20 smoke, smell or sparks is a
double
handfull of charcoal briquettes = I've=20 recently made from bagasse- the
fibrous
residue of pressed = sugarcane.=20

After rapidly sun-drying around 25% moisture from the bulky, = light=20
coloured
fibrous/flakey bagasse on the open ground, we carbonised = 400 kg in=20 our
ceramic-bed kilns (previously described). Carbonisation was a = joy-=20 the
lighter and larger particles of bagass carbonised extremely = rapidly in=20 my
system, primarily due to larger particle size and lower density. = There=20
was a
slight smell of burnt sugar. The volatiles flared completely = in=20 the
combustion chamber/chimney. Bagasse is much easier to carbonise = than=20 the
sawdust this system was originally designed for.

The = conversion=20 rate to charcoal powder was 31% from the air-dried =
material.
Sawdust=20 conversion, by comparison, is 36% in this kiln.

The = briquettes, produced via low-pressure extrusion, are less dense =
than=20 my
Vendor's Waste Briquettes made from salvaged wood charcoal dust. = With=20 20%
clay as binder, the sun-dried bagasse charcoal briquette (BCB?) = is
gratifyingly hard; comparable with lump charcoal made from = softwood.
BCB=20 is
harder than the sawdust charcoal briquettes I've produced to = date. I=20
wonder
why that would be?

Ash residue is 27%, and burning = time is=20 short- also on par with softwood
derived charcoal- exhibiting a = quick and=20 easy ignition and short time to
full heat. Ash remains in the = original briquette shape; fragile and light
tan in = colour.

This=20 small success opens up some big possibilities! Pity that the=20
closest
substantial supply of discarded bagasse is over 200 km from = where I=20 am
located in Nairobi. The cost of transporting raw bagass = 200 km=20
obviates any
Nairobi-based BCB production.

O.K.- back to the = Jiko to=20 warm up- it's COLD here in Nairobi during=20
August.

elk

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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Mon Jul 31 09:37:42 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse
Message-ID: <17.8fb1739.26b6daf0@cs.com>

ELK:

Congratulations on bagasse charcoal making. I once spent a week in Belize
making charcoal from bagasse and I know it isn't a perfect feed - but it is
widely available. (I presume it would work also with the cane trash left now
in the fields).

P Karve has demonstrated bagasse charcoal to us too. Are you going to her
conference in Pune in November?

Yours, TOM REED

In a message dated 7/29/00 1:15:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
elk@net2000ke.com writes:

<<
Stovers;

I'm sitting next to a small 'jiko' made of fired clay from the Nandi Hills
district of Kenya. In it, burning without smoke, smell or sparks is a double
handfull of charcoal briquettes I've recently made from bagasse- the fibrous
residue of pressed sugarcane.

After rapidly sun-drying around 25% moisture from the bulky, light coloured
fibrous/flakey bagasse on the open ground, we carbonised 400 kg in our
ceramic-bed kilns (previously described). Carbonisation was a joy- the
lighter and larger particles of bagass carbonised extremely rapidly in my
system, primarily due to larger particle size and lower density. There was a
slight smell of burnt sugar. The volatiles flared completely in the
combustion chamber/chimney. Bagasse is much easier to carbonise than the
sawdust this system was originally designed for.

The conversion rate to charcoal powder was 31% from the air-dried material.
Sawdust conversion, by comparison, is 36% in this kiln.

The briquettes, produced via low-pressure extrusion, are less dense than my
Vendor's Waste Briquettes made from salvaged wood charcoal dust. With 20%
clay as binder, the sun-dried bagasse charcoal briquette (BCB?) is
gratifyingly hard; comparable with lump charcoal made from softwood. BCB is
harder than the sawdust charcoal briquettes I've produced to date. I wonder
why that would be?

Ash residue is 27%, and burning time is short- also on par with softwood
derived charcoal- exhibiting a quick and easy ignition and short time to
full heat. Ash remains in the original briquette shape; fragile and light
tan in colour.

This small success opens up some big possibilities! Pity that the closest
substantial supply of discarded bagasse is over 200 km from where I am
located in Nairobi. The cost of transporting raw bagass 200 km obviates any
Nairobi-based BCB production.

O.K.- back to the Jiko to warm up- it's COLD here in Nairobi during August.

elk >>
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From karve at wmi.co.in Mon Jul 31 15:00:35 2000
From: karve at wmi.co.in (karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse
In-Reply-To: <17.8fb1739.26b6daf0@cs.com>
Message-ID: <3985BA73.4ADF2E00@wmi.co.in>

Stovers,
Just a small correction to Dr. Reed's message: The briquettes that I
demonstrated to him were in fact made out of cane trash and not bagasse.
Regards,
Priyadarshini Karve.

Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:

From elk at net2000ke.com Mon Jul 31 16:03:11 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:37 2004
Subject: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse
Message-ID: <000101bffb29$8b4eee60$4246cac3@preferrc>

Thanks Tom.

Tell me more about your Belize experience please? Compared to sawdust, the
bagasse was very easily carbonised and briquetting is not a problem at all.
I'm curious to hear what you determined.

Pune is not looking probable at this point unfortunately.

rgds;

elk

-----Original Message-----
From: Reedtb2@cs.com
To: ; stoves@crest.org
Date: 31 July 2000 16:42
Subject: Re: Charcoal Briquettes from Bagasse

>ELK:
>
>Congratulations on bagasse charcoal making. I once spent a week in Belize
>making charcoal from bagasse and I know it isn't a perfect feed - but it is
>widely available. (I presume it would work also with the cane trash left
now
>in the fields).
>
>P Karve has demonstrated bagasse charcoal to us too. Are you going to her
>conference in Pune in November?
>
>Yours, TOM REED
>
>In a message dated 7/29/00 1:15:43 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
>elk@net2000ke.com writes:
>
><<
> Stovers;
>
> I'm sitting next to a small 'jiko' made of fired clay from the Nandi Hills
> district of Kenya. In it, burning without smoke, smell or sparks is a
double
> handfull of charcoal briquettes I've recently made from bagasse- the
fibrous
> residue of pressed sugarcane.
>
> After rapidly sun-drying around 25% moisture from the bulky, light
coloured
> fibrous/flakey bagasse on the open ground, we carbonised 400 kg in our
> ceramic-bed kilns (previously described). Carbonisation was a joy- the
> lighter and larger particles of bagass carbonised extremely rapidly in my
> system, primarily due to larger particle size and lower density. There was
a
> slight smell of burnt sugar. The volatiles flared completely in the
> combustion chamber/chimney. Bagasse is much easier to carbonise than the
> sawdust this system was originally designed for.
>
> The conversion rate to charcoal powder was 31% from the air-dried
material.
> Sawdust conversion, by comparison, is 36% in this kiln.
>
> The briquettes, produced via low-pressure extrusion, are less dense than
my
> Vendor's Waste Briquettes made from salvaged wood charcoal dust. With 20%
> clay as binder, the sun-dried bagasse charcoal briquette (BCB?) is
> gratifyingly hard; comparable with lump charcoal made from softwood. BCB
is
> harder than the sawdust charcoal briquettes I've produced to date. I
wonder
> why that would be?
>
> Ash residue is 27%, and burning time is short- also on par with softwood
> derived charcoal- exhibiting a quick and easy ignition and short time to
> full heat. Ash remains in the original briquette shape; fragile and light
> tan in colour.
>
> This small success opens up some big possibilities! Pity that the closest
> substantial supply of discarded bagasse is over 200 km from where I am
> located in Nairobi. The cost of transporting raw bagass 200 km obviates
any
> Nairobi-based BCB production.
>
> O.K.- back to the Jiko to warm up- it's COLD here in Nairobi during
August.
>
> elk >>
>

BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

July 2000 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive