March 2000 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From elk at net2000ke.com Wed Mar 1 07:27:45 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (e. karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: 36% Conversion?- Sawdust Charcoal
Message-ID: <v01510103b4e2b3cbd9e6@[195.202.65.86]>

Stovers;

I've got the figures here in front of me & I've triple-checked every aspect
& I STILL come up with an unbelievable conversion rate with my last batch
of carbonised sawdust.

Here are the figures:

2150 kg air/sun dried sawdust input.

784 kg carbonised material produced (the 60 kg water used to assist in
extinguishing has been subtracted)

Conversion of sawdust to charcoal is 36.5%.........!

I don't see a significant amount brown partially carbonised material-
everything crumbles readily between thumb & forefinger- as charcoal should.
The briquettes produced from this batch are firm but lightweight & burn
readily and without smoke, odour or sparks.

The newly configured downdraft carboniser utilises 100% ceramic kiln beds.
Maybe the insulative properties of the ceramic (terra cotta) tiles have
resulted in this increased in coversion efficiency?

Does anyone have any ideas as to what is happening here? Regular charcoal
kilns rarely surpass 25% conversion. The local earth-mound kilns here do
about 12%. Maybe I'm 'Torrifying' & leaving a lot of volatiles in the
charcoal.

================

Here's the info just in on a briquette burn trial using an improved Kenya
'Jiko' (cramic lined):

Briqette composition: 25% clay + 0.5% stearic acid,+ 74.5% sawdust charcoal
from the above mentioned batch of material.

700 gm briquettes

2.5 hrs burning time to completion

1910 gms water evaporated from 2000 gms initial qty

Ash residue 210 gm (30.0%)

regards;

elk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:
E.L. Karstad :
P.O. Box 24371 :
Nairobi, Kenya :
Fax/tel 884437 :
elk@net2000ke.com :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~'

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From mheat at mha-net.org Wed Mar 1 09:22:31 2000
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Pressed logs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000229140753.00683d38@exchange.edi.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000301091522.00d17d20@127.0.0.1>

Hello John:

I don't have any information on this topic myself, but will forward this
email to several sources that may be able to help you:

Skip Hayden - senior research scientist at the Canadian government's
combustion laboratories. I know they have done some work with manufactured
logs.

Stove list - a crest list dedicated to biomass combustion - some of the
experts there may have information on pelletizing

Mike Van Buren - Technical Director at the Hearth Products Association,
which may have pellet equipment manufacturers among its membership

John Gulland - a Canadian consultant who has many industry contacts

Best ......... Norbert

At 02:30 PM 2000-02-29 -0500, you wrote:
>Norbert Senf,
>
>I read several of your contributions to the solstice/crest discussion group
>on wood combustion and I am hoping that you may be able to help me. I am
>looking into the improved utilization of sawdust generated by Georgia saw
>mills. I have found some sources of information on pelletizing sawdust,
>but very little on converting it into pressed logs. I am particularly
>interested in the business feasibility of doing this and also wish to find
>manufacturers of the equipment needed to produce pressed logs. Could you
>refer me a few of these equipment manufacturers and any other sources of
>information?
>
>John J. Mills
>Senior Research Engineer
>Georgia Institute of Technology

----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
Masonry Stove Builders
RR 5, Shawville------- www.mha-net.org/msb/
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092

From karve at wmi.co.in Mon Mar 6 12:06:44 2000
From: karve at wmi.co.in (karve)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: conference announcement
Message-ID: <38C3E82B.537631EF@wmi.co.in>

Dear Stovers,
The Ministry of Non-conventional Energy Sources, Government of
India, has given a green signal to the proposed International Conference
on Biomass-based Fuels and Cooking Systems. Please find attached a
formal announcment of the conference.
Non-Indian persons wishing to participate in the conference, please
note that we have to provide a list of all expected foreign delegates to
the Home Ministry of the Government of India. This will facilitate the
processing of your visa applications. Therefore please provide your
name, address, passport no. and other passport details along with the
Intimation form. Those of you who have already provided this
information, need not send it again.
Please feel free to forward this announcement to any interested
persons/organisations.
With regards,
Priyadarshini Karve.

Title: announcement1

International Conference on
Biomass-based Fuels & Cooking Systems
(BFCS-2000)
November 20-24, 2000
Announcement and Call for Papers
Chief Organiser:
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
2nd Floor, Maninee Apartments, S.No.13,
Opposite Pure Foods Co., Dhayarigaon, Pune 411
041, India.
Phone: 91 020 4390348/4392284
E-mail: karve@wmi.co.in
Introduction:
Biomass is an important source of household energy
all over the world. In most developing countries the use of biomass fuels
for cooking and room heating is highly inefficient and unhealthy. Over
the past few years, considerable research effort has been aimed at finding
the means of efficient and emission-free utilisation of biomass for satisfying
the domestic energy needs.
The emphasis of the Conference shall be on the new trends
of biomass energy research, viz., conversion of biomass into higher grade
fuels (char, alcohol, combustible gases) and, stove designs for efficient
utilisation of these fuels, mainly for cooking.
The biogas technology and the issues involved in designing
of ordinary wood and biomass burning stoves shall have lower priority because
these have already been discussed extensively on various fora.
The conference shall also include special sessions on
(a) strategies for popularisation and commercialisation of improved
stoves and biomass-based fuels among the rural people in the developing
countries, and (b) health and environment-related issues involved in the
use of biomass for cooking and room heating, and possible solutions
to the problems.
The conference will have three days for deliberations
(oral as well as poster presentations) and two field trips. An exhibition
of stoves and related products/technologies is also being planned during
the Conference.
The Conference Location:
The conference will be held in Pune, which is situated about 150 km
from Mumbai (formerly known as Bombay), in the western state of Maharashtra
in India. This city is called 'the oxford of the east' by virtue of the
large number of excellent educational and research institutes situated
here. It has witnessed several historically important events (political
as well as social) over the years.
The climate of Pune in November is pleasant, with the
highest temperature hovering around 30oC and the lowest around 10oC. The
city is connected to all the major cities in India including Mumbai (which
has the nearest international airport) by air, rail as well as road.
The Chief Organiser:
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI) came into existence in
1996. It is a registered society and a trust, formed by a group of scientists
and social workers engaged in rural development since the early eighties.
The main objective of the Institute is to serve as an instrument of rural
development through application of scientific knowledge and technology.
Hence, the primary activity is to undertake projects to study, develop,
standardise, implement, commercialise and popularise innovative appropriate
technologies with special emphasis on making traditional rural enterprises
more profitable and generating new employment opportunities through introduction
of novel business possibilities in rural areas. ARTI is conducting about
20 projects at different locations all over India.
Right from its inception, ARTI has been running the Technical
Back-up support Unit (TBU) for the states of Maharashtra and Goa under
NPIC, sponsored by MNES. Our TBU team has developed and promoted a number
of improved stove models. The concepts and strategies introduced by us
for popularisation of improved stoves have proved highly successful. Our
researchers have also developed a feasible technology for converting waste
biomass into char briquettes. Through various other projects, ARTI has
developed a number of technologies useful for efficient production of biomass.
As a result of these activities, ARTI is fast emerging
as a leading centre of research and technology dissemination in the field
of biomass energy.
BFCS-2000 Registration Details:
Registration fee: Rs. 500/- for Indian participants
US $50 for non-Indian participants
Accommodation charge (depending on type): Rs. 250/- to Rs. 4000/-
(US $6 to US $100) per day per person
Rent for Exhibition Space: Rs. 4000/- for Indian participants
US $100 for non-Indian participants
Important Dates:
Last date for receipt of abstracts: April 15, 2000
Last date for receipt of papers: July 31, 2000
Last date for receipt of registration fee and other charges:
September 30, 2000
Intimation Form(to reach ARTI by April 15, 2000)
To
The Convenor, BFCS-2000.
I wish to participate in BFCS-2000.
Name:
Designation:
Address for correspondence:
Telephone No.:
Fax:
E-mail:
Do you wish to present a paper: Yes/No
If yes, please enclose the abstract.
Do you wish to participate in the exhibition: Yes/No
If yes, please enclose a note on the proposed exhibit.
Signature:
Date:
Notes
* Please use photocopies of the form for multiple registrations.
* Please note that accompanying persons too will be registered as participants.
Therefore, please fill separate forms for accompanying persons, if any.
* The abstract should not exceed 300 words, and should clearly indicate
the title of the paper, names of authors with the presenting authors name
underlined, and the name and address of the parent organisation(s) of the
authors. The abstract should be neatly typed on one side of an A4 size
paper or it should be sent by e-mail.
* The note regarding the proposed exhibit should clearly spell out
requirements of space, poster boards, tables, electric connections, etc.
Address for sending the filled intimation forms
The Convenor, BFCS-2000,
Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI),
2nd Floor, Maninee Apartments, S.No.13,
Opposite Pure Foods Co., Dhayarigaon, Pune 411 041, INDIA.
Or Send an E-mail to: karve@wmi.co.in

begin:vcard
n:Karve;Priyadarshini
tel;fax:-
tel;home:91 020 5423258
tel;work:91 020 5442217/4390348/4392284
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://members.tripod.com/ARTI_India/index.html
org:Appropriate Rural Technology Institue (ARTI)
version:2.1
email;internet:karve@wmi.co.in
title:Member
note:ARTI is an NGO undertaking research projects to study, develop, standardise, implement, commercialise and popularise innovative appropriate rural technologies with special emphasis on making traditional rural enterprises more profitable and generating new employment opportunities through introduction of novel business possibilities in rural areas.
adr;quoted-printable:;;2nd Floor, Maninee Apartments,=0D=0AOpposite Pure Foods Co., Dhayarigaon,;Pune,;Maharashtra;411 041;India
fn:Dr. Priyadarshini Karve
end:vcard

From english at adan.kingston.net Wed Mar 8 17:32:07 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: (Fwd) Request for Information
Message-ID: <200003082231.RAA20962@adan.kingston.net>

Stovers,
Some of the information requested below was available at Grant
Ballard-Tremeer's web site. These were the greenhouse gas links
listed under Kirk Smith's name on the Stoves web page. However they
didn't work for me just now.
Alex

Dear all,

I am working on the buildings section of Chapter 3: Technological and
Economic Potential of GHG Emissions Reduction for the IPCC's Third
Assessment Report. We have a table in that report that attempts to break
out emissions sources for the buildings sector. I currently have
information on CO2 emissions from fuel and electricity use in buildings
and from HFCs from refrigeration, air conditioning, and foam insulation. I
am writing to ask if you have any information (or if you can point me to
some good sources) on methane and nitrous oxide emissions from cookstoves.
Ideally, I would like to have emissions in MtC for 1995 by regions (we
simplistically divide the world into industrialized, economies in
transition, developing countries in Asia-Pacific, and rest of world).

Stephen Karakezi recommended that I contact you. Any information that you
can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Lynn

*************************************
Lynn Price
Energy Analysis Department
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
1 Cyclotron Road, MS 90-4000
Berkeley, CA 94720 USA
(510) 486-6519
fax (510) 486-6996
*************************************

Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211

From Rkfabf at aol.com Wed Mar 8 20:52:36 2000
From: Rkfabf at aol.com (Rkfabf@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: (Fwd) Request for Information
Message-ID: <9a.1fb96ea.25f85da3@aol.com>

Hello Lynn -

If I may have your permission I will post your inquiry to the IAQ List. I
feel quite certain one of the resident IAQ professionals or experts will be
able to address your inquiry. I can then forward the responses to you
directly or post to the Stoves List.

Regards -
Cathy Flanders
IAQ List Manager & Moderator
E-Mail: iaq-owner@onelist.com
Fax # 781-394-8288
Personal E-Mail: RKFABF@aol.com
IAQ List - Home
http://www.onelist.com/community/iaq
IAQ List - Links
http://www.onelist.com/links/iaq

Candles and Indoor Air Quality
http://www.fiscorp.net/iaq/
<A HREF="http://disc.server.com/Indices/41692.html">Homeowners Soot Damage
Discussion</A>
http://disc.server.com/Indices/41692.html
_____________________________________________________________________

+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$;%+$;'+$;%+//////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

In a message dated 3/8/00 4:34:30 PM Central Standard Time,
english@adan.kingston.net writes:

<< Dear all,

I am working on the buildings section of Chapter 3: Technological and
Economic Potential of GHG Emissions Reduction for the IPCC's Third
Assessment Report. We have a table in that report that attempts to break
out emissions sources for the buildings sector. I currently have
information on CO2 emissions from fuel and electricity use in buildings
and from HFCs from refrigeration, air conditioning, and foam insulation. I
am writing to ask if you have any information (or if you can point me to
some good sources) on methane and nitrous oxide emissions from cookstoves.
Ideally, I would like to have emissions in MtC for 1995 by regions (we
simplistically divide the world into industrialized, economies in
transition, developing countries in Asia-Pacific, and rest of world).

Stephen Karakezi recommended that I contact you. Any information that you
can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Lynn

*************************************
Lynn Price
Energy Analysis Department
Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
1 Cyclotron Road, MS 90-4000
Berkeley, CA 94720 USA
(510) 486-6519
fax (510) 486-6996
*************************************

Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211

>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From btremeer at dds.nl Thu Mar 9 05:36:38 2000
From: btremeer at dds.nl (btremeer@dds.nl)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: (Fwd) Request for Information
Message-ID: <242985391.952598325367.JavaMail.btremeer@dds.nl>

Dear all

The links to Kirk Smith's articles that Alex is refering to
are:

http://www.energy.demon.nl/GHG/kilns.htm for the article
GREENHOUSE GASES FROM SMALL-SCALE COMBUSTION DEVICES IN
DEVELOPING COUNTRIES - Charcoal Kilns in Thailand

and

http://www.energy.demon.nl/GHG/stoves.htm for the article
GREENHOUSE GASES FROM SMALL-SCALE COMBUSTION DEVICES IN
DEVELOPING COUNTRIES - Household stoves in India

Both are still active. Alex... your page refers to them
with a capital K and a capital S, which is why they don't
seem to link through I think.

Regards
Grant

From pdg at del2.vsnl.net.in Thu Mar 9 06:16:04 2000
From: pdg at del2.vsnl.net.in (P D Grover)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <000401bf89bb$2ed0f8c0$a4cec5cb@cms.pdgdel2.vsnl.net.in>

9th March, 2000

To
Elsen Karstad

Dear Elsen,

I have your e mail of 22nd Feb. giving results of your saw dust
carbonization operation. Under the existing conditions over there the
configuration adopted by you is the best and commendable.

There are a couple of my suggestions which you may like to
incorporate

1. The valved connections (20 Cm j )
from kilns to furnace should have a slope towards the furnace so that volatile
condensate is drained into the furnace. Furthermore, just before the valve
connect a dip pipe (12 Cm dia) with water seal so that tar and condensate drain
out into a small open tin containing water as seal. This would avoid tar
deposition near the valve to prevent it jamming over the period.

2. The water insoluble tarry portion so collected can be
applied as paint outside the chimney. Accordingly when chimney gets heated it
will crack the tar allowing a coating of carbon on the surface. This would
prevent the chimney from thermal and atmospheric corrosion at no cost. Coating
of tar is repeated as required but as per our experience 3 coatings in the
begining are good enough to give a long years of service.

Prof. P.D. Grover
(Ex. Head Chem. Eng. Dept. IIT Delhi)

****************************************************
IRP Energy Consultants
44, Community Centre
East of Kailash
New Delhi - 110 065 (India)

Tele: 623 5026, 8840
Fax : 91-11-621 8273 Attn: P.D. Grover
****************************************************

From larcon at sni.net Sat Mar 11 09:16:13 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: some "stove" ideas from Kyrgyzstan
Message-ID: <v01540b0fb4efe7d9dfb1@[204.131.233.38]>

Hi to the stoves list again.

My (almost) six weeks in Kyrgyzstan was a great experience. This
is a great little country that is slowly pulling itself together after the
falling apart of the Soviet Union. We saw considerable private sector
improvement over our last visit in 1994. For anyone interested in
mountains and low prices (about 10% of those in the US for most
commodities), let me recommend Kyrgyzstan (and also Uzbekistan - although
we only spent 5 days there)

Most cooking is done with electricity (the country has an abundance
of hydropower) - except for shishkabob done outdoors in front of many
restaurants on long metal charcoal grillstands. Many local meat pies are
cooked on the inner walls of large charcoal fired ovens (all air input
seemed to be from the top only). These ovens must be very efficient -
although I am baffled how the "pies" defy gravity so well (The "pies" are
scraped off the wall into a basket held in the other hand).

But the main topic I want to comment on (and ask for help on) is
how similar their local ceramics industry is to the world of cookstoves.
The firing of pottery is done electrically in Kyrgystan (and with natural
gas in Uzbekistan) Essentially no use of wood in either place (but still
practiced for aesthetic reasons in a few places in the world - with some
firings taking days. However, the kilns suffer from the same problems we
have with stoves - they are just too bulky and non-insulative to be
efficient (and to thereby achieve the desired high temperatures).

Topic #1. What is needed (and what were previously shipped in from
Russia) are the highly-insulating, light-weight bricks that are used
exclusively in US gas and electric kilns. My requests to this list are for
leads on the details of how these are produced - and whether anyone has
seen them produced locally in any developing country environment. If they
could economically replace the heavy bricks or clay normally used in wood
stoves, we could make a major contribution to both sectors of society - and
save a lot of wood now used to unproductively heat up a lot of mass (as
Dean Still has often reminded us).

My guess is that these light weight bricks are manufactured with a
starting mixture of clay and something like sawdust (maybe charcoal dust).
Two brickyards told me they already add 7% coal dust (8% in the winter) to
their raw bricks to help in firing - but they had no experience in working
with higher percentages of a fuel.

Are there other additives (such as quartz) needed to get the
required high temperature refractory properties?

What temperature are they fired to? etc.

Special note to Elsen Karstad - good to hear about youyr continuing
improvements in your downdraft sawdust convertors. This lightweight brick
might be something you could develop inside your existing chimneys as a
co-product - taking advantage of your tremendous heat output (maybe even
extend the life of the oil barrels). I'll be starting soon to try some
tests using my wife's electric kiln - but it sure would be nice to first
hear from anyone who knows something about the existing technology of
production of insulating structral materials.

Subject #2 - a different lightweight insulator. Many of us will know
something about vermiculite - and I saw some effectively used between
lightweight (imported) bricks in a studio foundry in Bishkek (sister city
to Colorado Springs). But in Osh, Kyrgyzstan, I saw a product called
"keramika" (The Russian "c" is pronounced like the English "ess" - so I
use "k's" here). This is made at 1200 C from only the mineral schist, I am
told - in a large rotary kiln - and sold at a very reasonable price. I
will report later on its density - but it was lightweight and very suitable
for replacing vermiculite, I believe - and maybe easier to produce around
the world - as schist is very common. These look a lot like fossilized
excrement - but are much lighter. In Kyrgyszstan, the product is used for
ceiling and wall insulation - and also used decoratively in gardens.

I tried making some bricks by firing several different mixtures of
this product and clay in an electric kiln - but the first test was not
satisfactory in terms of brick cohesiveness. But I think it could be made
to work with more effort.

The question is - can anyone supply more information on this or
similar lightweight high temperature low cost products - and any success
anyone might have had in making insulative bricks using it?

Getting a strong thin inner wall for the stove or the pottery kiln
is the key to using "keramika" as it is - without making bricks. For the
outer surface of the needed composite wall you can probably use almost
anything.

I stress "thin" above - because I am now much more cognizant of the
very poor qualities of ordinary brick in containing heat.

Topic 3. I also found that temperature was mainly measured
(exclusively in Uzbekistan) by the color of the inside of the kiln. After
generations of experience, they are very good at measuring temperature this
way - but they lose product sometimes and are looking for low cost
temperatrure sensors. Unfortunately, chromel-alumel thermocouple wire is
not available locally.

Has anyone ever looked into how to do temperature measurements at
very low cost? (The average income here is very low - no room for anything
fancy.) I bought a Chinese multimeter for $7.00 and could have bought one
for about $3.00. The few thermocouples I saw in use must have cost (new)
many hundreds of dollars. I am hoping for a millivoltmeter at a few
dollars and the same for the couple - with calibration against the existing
standards.

Summary. The above is the extent of my new "stove" knowledge.
Anyone out there able to point me to a store of literature on any of these
subjects?

Good to be back, but I already miss the hospitality of the Kyrgyz.

Thanks to Alex for filling in for the last six weeks. Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Sat Mar 11 18:00:30 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: New Utilities Network (NUN)
Message-ID: <v01540b06b4f0654b8d99@[204.131.233.42]>

Stovers:

Part A.

The following message was sent to me (personally) on February 19
and (because of my being out of the country) it unfortunately did not then
get out to the stoves list, as Marion had hoped. As Marion has indicated
below, the "stoves" list was helpful to her as she began taking steps to
have various (mainly German) organizations begin to look at ways her
organization (NUN) could improve household technologies in Africa.

Because I am very impressed by her interest and activities in this
area, and because I think there is a great role for persons like Marion to
help the regions from which they have left, I have appended (Part E) for
her my own letter of support - as she has requested.

She is hoping for other such letters of support - so I hope that
any other stove-list members who are interested in the results of the "NUN"
efforts will also send them on to Marion <marion.jackson@uni-tuebingen.de>
directly for inclusion in her proposal.

To Marion - I hope this response is what you were hoping for. Please
report back to "stoves" on both the support that you were able to generate
- and eventually on whether you were successful in your proposal. (And of
course what you learn as your research gets underway).

There are many "stove" members who are members of "hedon" - but I
think it best for you to contact Grant Ballard Tremeer
<hedon@energy.demon.nl> directly with your request for this message to go
to "hedon". I am not sure of the hedon policy on such requests.

The next parts (B, C and D) are from Marion. Part E is my own
personalresponse to her request for help from "stoves".

Part B.

Dear Ron,

after your encouragement a while ago, our first project is now ready for
application. In search for letters of endorsement (which I hope to
overwhelm the EC with), I thought of turning to the stovers. What do you
think?

If you do think it's proper to address with such a request, would you
kindly forward it to CREST and HEDON?

New Utilities Network
(NUN)

Marion Jackson
Weidenweg 14
72076 T|bingen
Germany
Tel./Fax: 07071-610 925
e-mail: marion.jackson@uni-tuebingen.de 10.01.2000

Part C.

Dear stovers,

about a year ago the stoves list was my first source of information
concerning household technologies in developing countries.

As a secretary I do not have means to develop utilities like you do, but
the ongoing discussion about the lack of usage of the technologies amongst
the needy then did impress me.

Based on these experiences New Utilities Network, an African NGO in
Germany, was organized and the concept for an interdisciplinary approach,
starting with ethnological, sociological field-researches aiming on the
dissemination of technology, was developed .

In a few weeks we will apply for EC-funding in cooperation with
sociologists and ethnologists of the Universities of Mainz,(Germany) and
Wageningen, (The Netherlands), the financial Dept. Of the Univ. T|bingen
and the German AT-(Appr. Techn.) Verband and independent researching
institutions in Benin and Chad.

In the first phase of one year we will organize seminars and workshops to
develop a concept to find methodologies and guidelines for the application
of technologies within a community for sustainable acceptance and use.

If you do support our aims and efforts, which are not restricted to stoves
as you may learn from the introduction and project prescription below,
kindly do phrase a letter of endorsement that we may add to our
application.

Subj.: letter of endorsement
To whom it may concern,
project title

short-intro
reason for ...this project
and dissemination, exploitation of results
(use of methology/guideines...)

Thank you for your support

Marion Jackson

Part D.

Purpose of the Organisation

1. Purpose of the organisation is the promotion of commitments of African
academics in Europe for environment - and nature conservation as well as
technical co-operation in Africa.

2. The statute-purpose is realised by

a. scientific co-operation with institutions of the north and African
facilities,

b. information-events, workshops and publications,

c. advanced training-measures for African academics and handy-crafts in
the area environmental protection and appropriate technologies,

d. technical and material support and education of African
partner-organisations,

e. distribution of information on natural resources conservation in
African communities,

f. information exchange, network and co-ordination with other
organisations in the area environmental protection and international
co-operation.

3. Funding especially takes place through public sponsorship, donations and
contributions of the members.

Non-profit organisation

1. In accordance the statute the organisation pursues exclusive and
directly non-profit purposes in the sense of '' 51ff.AO, "tax-favoured
purposes". It is selflessly active and doesn't pursue primarily
own-economic purposes.

2. The members do not get private financial contributions by club funds.

Introduction to Project Proposal

Based on experiences of African NUN members it was stated that
international co-operation projects in Africa often suffer by a lack of
sustainability, mainly those ones on nature- and environmental conservation
as on implementation of appropriate technologies.

This is due to a bundle of different problems, most of them well known and
often discussed by international experts, but what is rarely taken into
account are

1. the problems of intercultural communication,

2. the specific, tradition based African ways of communication, and

3. the specific, tradition based African ways of decision finding and
decision making.

Most African people - mainly those in rural and remote areas - are living
within a traditional social framework, which often can be characterised by
strong mutual dependence and strong mutual (social) control. Individuals
are not free in decision making, they are not able to adopt new methods in
soil conservation eg., new technologies like energy saving stoves or
photovoltaik solar home systems by their own, because by this they are
romping the traditional way of adapting "new" ideas, "new" methods.

In addition to that, the "way of thinking" within these tradition-based
social frameworks is totally different to the "rational way of thinking" as
normally demonstrated by international experts and African upper class
members.

That's why international co-operation projects often are "successful" as
long as new methods or new technologies are promoted by project members,
but fall into oblivion as soon as subsidies and promotion stops.

What's lacking is a methodology on how to find out the inter-dependence in
local ways of communication, how to find out who are the decision makers
(it's not just the local chief normally), how the people can be involved in
project decision making and what could be the level of adapting themselves
to "modern" economical and ecological feasible production systems and
life-style which finally could lead to an integration into world market
conditions.

African members of NUN who are aware of both cultures are willing to
promote investigations on this and to collaborate with German/European and
African sociologists/ethnologist in working out new methodologies in
evaluation and documentation of local decision finding methods, which could
be helpful for further international co-operation projects and which could
lead to a higher level of acceptance and sustainability of these projects.

Project Proposal

1. Project Title and Project Goal (English)

Investigation on social-cultural information- and decision making
structures in rural areas in Africa to improve the acceptance and
sustainability of international co-operation projects.

1.. Investigations on Communication Systems in different Socio-cultural
Structures.

2.. Investigations on Decision making Structures within the
Socio-cultural Context.

Main Project Goal - is to elaborate a methodology for evaluation of
cultural based information- and decision making structures in rural areas
in Africa and to demonstrate its applicability by a pilot project on
implementation of appropriate technologies in the field of basic needs.

Part E. (Larson letter of support)

To whom it may concern:

The following is a short letter of support for a proposal being
sent to you and other prospective funders by the organization: New
Utilities Network (NUN). The title of their proposal is "Investigation on
social-cultural information- and decision making structures in rural areas
in Africa to improve the acceptance and sustainability of international
co-operation projects."

It has been my pleasure for more than a year to correspond with
NUN's secretary Marion Jackson on one aspect of their proposed work -
simple wood-burning stoves. I have done so as a coordinator of an Internet
list called "stoves" - a part of a larger group called "crest" (Center for
Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technology) - which can be seen at
www.crest.org.

The better understanding of communication paths that NUN is
proposing is very important for the introduction of the new and improved
stove technologies that our worldwide group of 175 members has been working
on (almost entirely as volunteers). I personally have seen the importance
of this sort of effort from several perspectives - as a researcher in Sudan
and Zimbabwe, and as an active supporter now of a small NGO in the USA
representing one small part of Ethiopia. I feel that the most
knowledgeable experts on what stoves will work and how to help are the
types of person who already are members of NUN.

From personal knowledge I know that the NUN members have been
devoting, and will continue to devote, untold volunteer hours. They do
this out of a feeling of obligation to help their friends and relatives who
have remained behind - as the NUN members were able to travel to their
present more privileged places of employment. The expertise they now can
bring to these most important topics will be invaluable for the
introduction of many technologies - but especially of improved stoves.

I hope that this brief letter of support will be useful in your
funding decisions. I will be pleased to expand on these thoughts to any
length you wish, via the e-mail address provided below.

Sincerely,

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
<larcon@sni.net>

(side note to Marion - let me know if this needs modification in some way
to better meet your goals. Good luck.)

From mheat at mha-net.org Sun Mar 12 07:48:12 2000
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: some "stove" ideas from Kyrgyzstan
In-Reply-To: <v01540b0fb4efe7d9dfb1@[204.131.233.38]>
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000312074209.00d11270@127.0.0.1>

At 07:25 AM 2000-03-11 -0600, Ronal W. Larson wrote:
>(snip)
>Subject #2 - a different lightweight insulator. Many of us will know
>something about vermiculite - and I saw some effectively used between
>lightweight (imported) bricks in a studio foundry in Bishkek (sister city
>to Colorado Springs). But in Osh, Kyrgyzstan, I saw a product called
>"keramika" (The Russian "c" is pronounced like the English "ess" - so I
>use "k's" here). This is made at 1200 C from only the mineral schist, I am
>told - in a large rotary kiln - and sold at a very reasonable price. I
>will report later on its density - but it was lightweight and very suitable
>for replacing vermiculite, I believe - and maybe easier to produce around
>the world - as schist is very common. These look a lot like fossilized
>excrement - but are much lighter. (snip)

Hi Ronal:

This sounds like "Leca clay". It is used in Europe for insulating mixes for
chimneys, as an aggregate for low duty insulating refractory, etc.

It is a lightweight (aerated) fired clay, but I don't know what the
production method is.

I typed it into AltaVista, and got 7 hits, all relating to hydroponics:

"Leca Clay Pellets
These attractive smooth brown clay pellets, man-made and fired in high
temperature kilns, are the universal choice for growing houseplants in
hydroculture systems. Also widely used in hydroponic installations
including trickle irrigation, flood and drain etc. They are porous, pH
neutral, sterile, clean, and can be used forever. Best quality on the
market. Clean, dust-free and do not disintegrate.10 and 50 litre bags."

Norbert

From larcon at sni.net Tue Mar 14 16:09:26 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: November Stove Conference
Message-ID: <v01540b03b4f44065a7f9@[204.131.233.43]>

Stovers:

last week Dr. Priyadarshini Karve <karve@wmi.co.in> reported on the
details of the stoves conference she has been developing. As a reminder,
it was for November 20-24, 2000 - to be held in Pune, India. She had been
forced to hold back on these details until receiving notification just last
week of formal Indian Government approval and support.

Now the ball is in our court. It has been a long time since there
was a major stoves conference. This list had a dialog on the value of such
a conference several years ago with several offers coming forth for
sponsooring it. Mainly because of the favorable impression that we all had
of the strong stoves work being reported by Dr. Karve and her institution,
this list quickly endorsed her efforts.

I have been following her work and problems off-line for a long
time now and can report that a lot of work has already gone into this
conference. Some very good stove people are going to be there. It is
unlikely that we will see another such conference for at least three years.
So this is a one-time opportunity to meet each other face-to-face and
really make some rapid progress.

Any big future stove-development support change will be a direct
result of the number of us who can find a way to get there. If many dozens
of us can be there and we can develop a plan showing that we understand how
to build cheap, clean. efficient stoves - then we should be able to make
some major changes in our own national and international funding
priorities. If few of us show up, then such a result will be unlikely. I
presume most of us agree that we are working on one of the world's big
unsolved and difficult problems. So the chances of a historic result are
high, in my opinion - if we show up.

As to funding, at this time, I am afraid each of us will have to
find our own means of getting to Pune. A lot of effort has gone into
finding funding for those of us who will otherwise find it difficult to get
to Pune. So far, this search for funds has been unsuccessful. But we can
still turn this around - and we can do so in better fashion if Dr. Karve
has a good count of those who are both sure of coming and of those who can
only come with some travel support. If you have already sent in an
expression of your interest, you don't need to do so again. But if you
haven't yet checked in - please do so quickly.

A last final plea is to those who might know a source of funds to
support the travel of one or two others - please let Dr. Karve or myself
know who to approach. We can maintain confidences or we can give you full
credit.

Besides coming to a unique one-of-a-kind conference, you will also
be coming to a unique place. This is the best time of the year for Pune
and the accomodation prices are amazingly low. Most of us will have few
problems with communications - as English (our list language) is widely
known in all of India - but especially Pune. If you view this as a
vacation trip, you can advertise it for your family. My wife Gretchen is
coming along and looking forward especially to the two field trips.

I hope to see many of you there. Put this week on your calendar
and let Priyadarshini know of your interest. She has put a lot of effort
into this conference and we must not let her down.

Any other comments from any list member? Anyone able now to commit
to coming?

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Thu Mar 16 20:16:08 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Forwarding Dr. Yuri: "Part 2. About Ceramic"
Message-ID: <v01540b02b4f69938457d@[204.131.233.19]>

Stovers: Here is the second part of Dr. Yuri's message to me - containing
some useful responses to my message about stove-like experiences in
Kyrgyzstan:

>3. Leca clay in Russian is called "keramzit". This material is very
>abundant in Russia. We have utilized it as insulation for the
>drying of fire wood in our charcoaling operations.

(RWL): Yuri - I am still intrigued about this product (and thank
Norbert Senf for his comments. Norbert said: "It is a lightweight
(aerated) fired clay, but I don't know what the production method is.")
Yuri - You can probably help around the world in saving a lot of
fuel if you could give us more information on how "keramzit" is produced -
especially if it can be done in a low tech manner..

>4. A light brick and light thermally sound concrete will be utilized
>frequently. I shall look in the library know-how of these materials, if it
>is interesting to you.

(RWL): Yes - please send whatever you can. We all know that better
stoves can be produced if we can find better materials - materials that are
good insulators, strong-enough, long-lived, and low cost. In Kyrgyzstan,
there is no material yet that fits this description.

As an aside, yesterday I saw a kiln product for the first time that
I have been reading about. This is based on its reflective properties -
being a hard white cearmic "paint-on" for hard bricks. But it is horribly
expensive in the US. Anyone know of a low-cost approach like this?

In Kyrgyzstan, there is extensive use of electric space heaters -
with very nice operating features that are also based on the reflective
properties of a "shiny" stainless steel. Anyone able to comment on this
reflective approach to improving stove performance? (In kilns, I have been
told that almost all metals have poor lifetime beacuse of the many gases
that are emitted - so the reflective material has to be pretty special.)
The problem is probably not so severe in stoves.

>Dabsters do not consider these materials to be the best. They recommend
>tables > from a chamotte fiber. The thermal conductivity of these tables
>is lower than > for a light brick.

(RWL): I think maybe "dabsters" = "potters", "tables" = sheets",
and "chamotte" = "ceramic material". Local pottery supply houses sell a
wonderful fiber material for about $3/sq ft ($30/sq m) in small quantities.
We experimented with some in Kyrgyzstan - and they were well received.

This month's issue of Scientific American has a small section in
"Amateur Scientist" on a low-cost, home-made, moderate temperature (480oC)
oven - with some of these ideas being mentioned. I am now going to visit a
motorcycle shops to look for "muffler packing". Anyone know this product -
which presumably is a high temperature insulator?

Yesterday, I was told that vermiculite can be used in lightweight
brickmaking and would burn out. I had thought vermiculite was a
high-temperture mineral and would not be a good ingredient for making light
weight home made bricks. Can anyone clarify this issue?

>5. The temperature sensors from chromel-alumel are not so expensive in
>Russia and easy for ordering.

(RWL): I think the price in the US is near $20 or so per couple.
What is your price? Does anyone know of low cost sources - and preferably
for just individual wire spools?
>
>
>Sincerely yours, Yury Yudkevitch, (Russia)

Yuri - Thanks again for your very helpful contributions. Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Thu Mar 16 20:16:14 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Forwarding Dr. Yuri: "1. About Conference"
Message-ID: <v01540b00b4f726d12188@[204.131.233.28]>

Stovers:
I am forwarding (and commenting simultaneously on) the following
first part of a very helpful message from Dr. Yuri. The second part is on
a differnt set of topics and coming next.

Having recently used in Kyrgystan a computer translator (where we
did it twice so we could see a second English version coming from the
Russian version) - I now better understand the technical problems that Yuri
(or any non-English speaker) has in getting messages through to the rest of
us. The main problem is that English words (as well as Russian) often have
many different meanigns. The translators have different vocabularies to
work with (e.g business, science, etc), and so the problem can be severe
for applications like ours where we discuss many different topics.

I therefore must apologize to Yuri because I have done some minor
(I hope) editing of what he sent me (mostly in words like "a", "the" -
which are handled differently in Russian). I hope Yuri will correct any
mistakes I made in editing. The rest of this is from Yuri:(except where I
have interspersed some comments)

>Dear Ron,
>1. My colleague and partner in the problem of charcoal, Professor-Doctor
>Pf. Yagodin and I want to be at the conference in Pune. But the economic
>situation handicaps it. We want to ask for help in paying the plane fare
>(approximately $ 800) and to be released from payment of conference fees.
>We are ready to introduce two reports on production of charcoal and on the
> pattern of fuel consumption in the northern parts of Russia.

(RWL): I am sure Yuri is speaking here for many on this list on
this topic. I have already received one other such request, also with a
valuable offer for preparing a paper. In that one, we are exploring
looking for a local solution, since that person lives in a country with
better possibilities of local support).

Even before these two requests, Dr. Karve and I (and another
friend) have been trying hard to locate travel funds - from several
sources.
(Aside - I have been having trouble getting messages through to Dr.
Karve - as her server seems to be having troubles. If you have been
sending messages to her also and having troubles getting through, I can
only say that one of mine did get through. We should continue trying - her
address is not incorrect. If Dr. Karve is able to get messages out, it
would be helpful to know when the computer problems are solved.)

So far we have not been successful in finding travel support - but
we have not given up. As I indicated in my last message, anyone able to
suggest names of possible donors is urgently asked to send them on to me
and Dr. Karve.

The other message is that most of us are simply going to have to
find our own travel funds - hopefully from within our own countries. But
for some countries, it is simply not going to be possible.

<snip here of a small Yuri reference to a private request for help)

>2. My colleagues and I have read with concern your impressions about
>Kirghizia.
> We realize their life is better. We know that the main salary of the
> professor equivalent is $ 50 per one month (together with operation of
> corporations means $ 100... 150 is gained). The population of Kirghizia has
> an income per month of $ 8... 10 and that that is cheap even for us, although
> those costs are expensive for them.

(RWL): Yuri's numbers are the same as I heard in Kyrgyzstan. And
yet, the quality of life for Professors is surprisingly good (and I hope
also for Yuri). For instance, in Osh we could travel long distances for
prices of 3c on (always crowded) electric buses that came by regularly, for
8 cents in minivans and 40 cents in taxicabs. In the US, few places have
such good options and certainly not the same costs. The costs for food
were similarly low. And the percentage of young Kyrgyz in college greatly
exceeds the number in the US. The former Soviet countries should not be
viewed in the same way as those in Africa with similar low monthly incomes
- but still too many people are unemployed in both places.

Air fare is also cheaper (not by as large a margin) - but you can
see that we can't expect Yuri to save out of his income for travel to this
conference.

Summary - Dr. Yuri has made a good case for providing assistance so
that he can attend the Novemer Pune conference. Few of us can help singly.
But many of us will know of a Foundation or some International source of
suppor. Pleas sned such ideas to me or Dr, Karve - and we will give it a
try.

(the seocnd part of the Yuri message coming in a separate e-mail)

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From dstill at epud.org Fri Mar 17 02:23:21 2000
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Dr. Yuri: "Part 2. About Ceramic"
Message-ID: <002101b5458d$622bce60$222b74d8@default>

Dear friends,

I am sure that many are aware of the different types of refractory cement
mixes available dry in 50 pound bags here in the U.S. There are many types
of insulative mixes but they tend to be soft as well. We are working on
various A. T. mixtures to try to replicate the industrial varieties. As soon
as something works, we'll report to the list. I'm trying to enlist the
companies that produce insulative refractory ceramics to help in this work.

Pumice or perlite or vermiculite can be mixed with cement to reduce the
mass.

A recipe for heat resistant cement is:

less than 5 gallons of water
2 cubic feet of sand
2 cubic feet of rock
94 pounds of cement
dry is better than wet

We are having some success with Honduran refractory ceramic parts surrounded
by wood ash. Wood ash is a great insulation. The refractory clay is made
from horse manure, sand, clay and tree gum. We also love spirals of aluminum
foil in areas below 700 degrees F.

We experimented with white highly emmissive paints from NASA that supposedly
had high R values. But, in our tests thay showed no real value in stoves.
They did not help performance in a haybox either.

Best,

Dean Still

From ticu at rdsor.ro Sun Mar 19 01:31:36 2000
From: ticu at rdsor.ro (Cornel Ticarat)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Drying beech wood using superheated steam.
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00696375202020203030303430303034@MAPI.to.RFC822>

Dear stovers,

I'm intending to build a wood dryer using superheated steam. I know this drying method is a good one. The wood I want to dry is beech wood. It is cutted into small pieces of about 20 - 25 cm long and 4 - 10 cm thick. It's moisture content: 45 - 50 % (very fresh cutted wood ! ). I intend one batch of wood for drying to be of 6 cubic meter.
As far as I know, what is necesary for that is a boiler for generating steam and a drying room. The output steam's temperature have to be of no less than 200 Celsius degrees and it's pressure no less than 4 bar durind all the drying process.
I read in a Russian old documentation paper that they used this drying method and have had very good results. They dried beams beech wood, having the following dimensions:
120 x 200 mm and 4 - 6.5 long. The initial moisture content: 40 %
After 7 (seven ! ) hours the moisture content decreased to 16 % !!!
The above mentioned steam parameters I have from that Russian documentation.
Does anyone have some practical experience with this drying method?
I would be very grateful to anyone of you who would accept to discuss about this.

Regards,

Cornel (Romania)

From heat-win at cwcom.net Sun Mar 19 03:03:56 2000
From: heat-win at cwcom.net (T J Stubbing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Drying beech wood using superheated steam.
In-Reply-To: <MAPI.Id.0016.00696375202020203030303430303034@MAPI.to.RFC822>
Message-ID: <38D48B70.7CECD08A@cwcom.net>

Dear Cornel and Stovers,

For the answer please look at <http://www.techtp.com> and its links and at my site <http://www.dryers-airless.mcmail.com>.

We will soon have a mobile, around 1 tonne moist weight capacity, wood stove heated and 12 volt battery powered superheated steam fuelwood dryer which generates the superheated steam drying medium from the moisture in the wood, not using an expensive steam raising boiler.

Replicas of that machine with 1 tonne or other moist wood capacities will be on sale commercially, probaly later this year, with the ability to dry the wood in 2 to 4 hours or turn it into charcoal in 5 to 10 hours depending on the capacity of the heater with which they are equipped and the diameter of the wood pieces, smaller diameters
drying and carbonising faster than large ones.

Regards,

Thomas J Stubbing

P.S. Continuous as opposed to batch machines are feasible for processing substantial quantities of wood and will be developed if demand for them exists.

Cornel Ticarat wrote:

> Dear stovers,
>
> I'm intending to build a wood dryer using superheated steam. I know this drying method is a good one. The wood I want to dry is beech wood. It is cutted into small pieces of about 20 - 25 cm long and 4 - 10 cm thick. It's moisture content: 45 - 50 % (very fresh cutted wood ! ). I intend one batch of wood for drying to be of 6 cubic meter.
> As far as I know, what is necesary for that is a boiler for generating steam and a drying room. The output steam's temperature have to be of no less than 200 Celsius degrees and it's pressure no less than 4 bar durind all the drying process.
> I read in a Russian old documentation paper that they used this drying method and have had very good results. They dried beams beech wood, having the following dimensions:
> 120 x 200 mm and 4 - 6.5 long. The initial moisture content: 40 %
> After 7 (seven ! ) hours the moisture content decreased to 16 % !!!
> The above mentioned steam parameters I have from that Russian documentation.
> Does anyone have some practical experience with this drying method?
> I would be very grateful to anyone of you who would accept to discuss about this.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cornel (Romania)
>
> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From aguaviva at zuper.net Sun Mar 19 21:07:08 2000
From: aguaviva at zuper.net (David Whitfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:30 2004
Subject: Drying beech wood using superheated steam.
In-Reply-To: <MAPI.Id.0016.00696375202020203030303430303034@MAPI.to.RFC822>
Message-ID: <007201bf9210$94f6d680$0c1772a6@godbless>

Dear Cornel,
Drying wood has many parameters that you should take into consideration.
The object is not how fast you can dry it but how to remove the moisture
with out damaging the cells, causing warping or checking etc. What is the
final use of the wood you want to dry?

Besides steam, have you thought about solar energy to dry the wood?

If you wish to communicate on this subject off list, write to me at
solar1@zuper.net

regards,
David Whitfield
Sobre la Roca
La Paz Bolivia
----- Original Message -----
From: Cornel Ticarat <ticu@rdsor.ro>
To: Stoves-Crest.Org. <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 2:36 AM
Subject: Drying beech wood using superheated steam.

From aguaviva at zuper.net Sun Mar 19 21:07:15 2000
From: aguaviva at zuper.net (David Whitfield)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Dr. Yuri: "Part 2. About Ceramic"
In-Reply-To: <002101b5458d$622bce60$222b74d8@default>
Message-ID: <007301bf9210$96ee60c0$0c1772a6@godbless>

Dear Dean.
After receiving infromation from Aprovecho, we have made some Rocket type
stoves here in Boliva and are beginning to generate interest in their
utilization. We combine solar box cookers, retained heat cookers and your
Rocket style efficient wood cook stove in a group of what we call ecological
cookers.

You cement mixture that you just mentioned, is that to make liners that will
last a long time? Would you use a mould or just cover lata and let the
metal burn out?

I am very interested in ceramic liner material. You mentioned tree gum.
What kind of tree gum? Here in the Altiplano that might be hard to get, but
in the valley areas or Amazonic areas it could be another matter.

How do the spirals of aluminum work with relation to stove construction?

What is pumice - perlite - or vermiculite in Spanish. How is it naturally
occuring in third world countries?

I have pictures that I can email you if you want to keep track of how your
seeds are producing fruits elsewhere besides Honduras.

We can collaborate on English /Spanish translations as well.

abrazos
David Whitfield
Sobre la Roca
La Paz Bolivia
solar1@zuper.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Still <dstill@epud.org>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 1991 5:43 PM
Subject: Re:Dr. Yuri: "Part 2. About Ceramic"

> Dear friends,
>
> Pumice or perlite or vermiculite can be mixed with cement to reduce the
> mass.
>
> A recipe for heat resistant cement is:
>
> less than 5 gallons of water
> 2 cubic feet of sand
> 2 cubic feet of rock
> 94 pounds of cement
> dry is better than wet
>
> We are having some success with Honduran refractory ceramic parts
surrounded
> by wood ash. Wood ash is a great insulation. The refractory clay is made
> from horse manure, sand, clay and tree gum. We also love spirals of
aluminum
> foil in areas below 700 degrees F.
>

From dstill at epud.org Tue Mar 21 03:09:22 2000
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: rocket ceramic liners
Message-ID: <002501b545d4$a9a1e760$192b74d8@default>

Dear David,

Would love to see pictures. Can I use them for an upcoming Boiling Point
article?

Making stove parts that are long lasting is always a problem but in Honduras
a women's co-op called Nueva Esperanza has been making ceramic stove liners
for more than ten years. The parts are said to last for five years or so, so
far we have seen few failures after one year. There are many books and
articles on making good refractory clay parts. Laurie Childers from
Aprovecho has had a lot of experience with clay for stoves. I've discussed
the problem with her.

The general consensus seems to be that it takes experimentation in each area
to produce viable refractory clay stove parts. If you are lucky perhaps
there are people in your area who have already solved the problem. Talk to
brick makers, potters, stove makers, etc. In Honduras it took quite a while
to make the long trips necessary to find local experts. Still faster and
better than trying to figure out a solution by yourself, I suggest...

If local experts are truly not available, we can generally recommend a
mixture of horse manure, sand, clay. Nueva Esperanza adds a mucous like
plant derived syrup that helps as a binder. I'll try to find the Latin name
of the plant they use. The horse manure adds organic material that seems to
create micro cracks in the ceramic that protect against large cracks due to
thermal expansion/contraction.

Laurie strongly believes that refractory ceramic should be fired at the same
temperature it will endure in the stove. Her experience is that most clays
can be made to work well after experimenting with mixtures.

Regular ceramic can be surrounded by a cement shell so that when the ceramic
cracks it is held together by the cement. This can work well. The ceramic
protects the cement from direct contact with flame that degrades cement. We
add piedra poma (pumice) to the cement in place of heavier rock. These parts
are heavy but durable. Not a bad solution.

Added mass does significantly reduce the efficiency of family stoves in
particular so we strive to keep the stove parts below 20 pounds, better
stoves use one to five pounds of material to make the combustion chamber,
fuel magazine, short chimney of the Rocket stove. Multi-pot stoves help to
raise the efficiency as well.

A spiral of aluminum foil is a fantastic insulator but it degrades above
700F. We use it in bread ovens, water heaters, hay boxes, etc. The air gap
between the layers acts as good insulation and the shiny surface contains
the IR. As I mentioned we use wood ash as insulation in most of the stoves.
Wood ash is great.

I'll send you Capturing Heat Two "Stoves with Chimneys"; it would be great
to translate it into Spanish. If our 9 Spring semester students can do any
testing or development work for you just let us know.

Best,

Dean

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Mar 21 09:35:18 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: November Stove Conference
Message-ID: <9c.24bd456.2608e276@cs.com>

Dear Priya and Stovers:

At least one of us from CPC will be attending the stove conference in
November and reporting on our Turbo WoodGas stove.

Robb Walt and I have been to both Pune and Phaltan as guests of Priya and her
father. A most rewarding visit in terms of both stove work and stove fuel
development.

It has been nice talking by Email here at "Stoves" for the last 3 years, but
I am anxious to see you in person. See some of you in November.

Yours truly, Tom Reed CPC/BEF

In a message dated 3/14/00 2:17:47 PM Mountain Standard Time, larcon@sni.net
writes:

<<
Stovers:

last week Dr. Priyadarshini Karve <karve@wmi.co.in> reported on the
details of the stoves conference she has been developing. As a reminder,
it was for November 20-24, 2000 - to be held in Pune, India. She had been
forced to hold back on these details until receiving notification just last
week of formal Indian Government approval and support.

Now the ball is in our court. It has been a long time since there
was a major stoves conference. This list had a dialog on the value of such
a conference several years ago with several offers coming forth for
sponsooring it. Mainly because of the favorable impression that we all had
of the strong stoves work being reported by Dr. Karve and her institution,
this list quickly endorsed her efforts.

I have been following her work and problems off-line for a long
time now and can report that a lot of work has already gone into this
conference. Some very good stove people are going to be there. It is
unlikely that we will see another such conference for at least three years.
So this is a one-time opportunity to meet each other face-to-face and
really make some rapid progress.

Any big future stove-development support change will be a direct
result of the number of us who can find a way to get there. If many dozens
of us can be there and we can develop a plan showing that we understand how
to build cheap, clean. efficient stoves - then we should be able to make
some major changes in our own national and international funding
priorities. If few of us show up, then such a result will be unlikely. I
presume most of us agree that we are working on one of the world's big
unsolved and difficult problems. So the chances of a historic result are
high, in my opinion - if we show up.

As to funding, at this time, I am afraid each of us will have to
find our own means of getting to Pune. A lot of effort has gone into
finding funding for those of us who will otherwise find it difficult to get
to Pune. So far, this search for funds has been unsuccessful. But we can
still turn this around - and we can do so in better fashion if Dr. Karve
has a good count of those who are both sure of coming and of those who can
only come with some travel support. If you have already sent in an
expression of your interest, you don't need to do so again. But if you
haven't yet checked in - please do so quickly.

A last final plea is to those who might know a source of funds to
support the travel of one or two others - please let Dr. Karve or myself
know who to approach. We can maintain confidences or we can give you full
credit.

Besides coming to a unique one-of-a-kind conference, you will also
be coming to a unique place. This is the best time of the year for Pune
and the accomodation prices are amazingly low. Most of us will have few
problems with communications - as English (our list language) is widely
known in all of India - but especially Pune. If you view this as a
vacation trip, you can advertise it for your family. My wife Gretchen is
coming along and looking forward especially to the two field trips.

I hope to see many of you there. Put this week on your calendar
and let Priyadarshini know of your interest. She has put a lot of effort
into this conference and we must not let her down.

Any other comments from any list member? Anyone able now to commit
to coming?

Ron
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From mheat at mha-net.org Tue Mar 21 13:34:02 2000
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Guatemalan cookstoves
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000321133019.00d7c9f0@127.0.0.1>

Hello Everyone:

MHA president Pat Manley just returned from a stove building trip to
Guatemala and sent in some photos. Photos and some details are posted at:

Best ......... Norbert
----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
Masonry Stove Builders
RR 5, Shawville------- www.mha-net.org/msb/
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092

From mheat at mha-net.org Tue Mar 21 16:28:09 2000
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Guatemalan cookstoves
Message-ID: <4.2.2.20000321162736.00d95100@127.0.0.1>

Sorry, forgot to paste in the URL:

http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/pat02.htm

.......Norbert

From larcon at sni.net Tue Mar 21 19:26:05 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: More on materials
Message-ID: <v01540b03b4fd3a18738f@[204.131.233.31]>

Stovers - This is mainly to follow up on some comments today by Dean Still
- which followed others recently by David Whitfield, Dr. Yuri, Norbert
Senf, and myself (where I was asking about hard insulating "Keramika"
pellets - which Norbert and Dr. Yuri identified as "Leca Clay Pellets" -
used in hydroponics and as building insulation - at least in Europe and
Central Asia.)

Here are some more observations and questions on this issue of
working towards better stove materials.

1. Heavy materials. It seems to me there is agreement that normal brick
and mud structures are not the way to go for most stoves - that their
massiveness leads to unacceptable efficiencies. Dean made that point
today.
Is there anyone who wants to make a case for this traditional approach?

2. Concretes. We also seem to have agreed that concrete is inappropriate
for stoves - at least for the flame-facing surface. Concrete doesn't seem
to have the necessary lifetime structural integrity we want.
Anyone want to argue for any special high temperature concretes?

3. Steel. There is considerable disagreement on this list about using
steel as the base material. Paul Hait swears by stainless - and stainless
is clearly a wonderful material (being highly reflective and long-lived) -
if available at reasonable cost. A number of us have made charcoal-making
stoves out of old cans, that seem to stand up fairly well - but I know of
no life testing. Dean Still's base Rocket stove can be made the same way.
In general, the steel stoves require an outside insulator to achieve high
efficiency - possibly including other layers of metal. Still better
probably to always avoid heavy materials anywhere.
So there are plenty of advocates for steel stoves - but it is not
widely used for cooking - probably because many steels often rust away,
they may cost more than the less efficient alternatives, and they require
extra effort to insulate (often not easy to do easily).
This list discussion would benefit from hearing from anyone who
feels that steel is the only way to go.

4. Ceramics. Many stoves are made of (low-) fired ceramics - at least as
the innermost material. Ceramics offer wonderful possibilities because
clay is widely available and pottery is generally very cheap in developing
countries. (Today, Dean offered some more ideas from Approvecho, including
using a syrup as a binder. In Uzbekistan, I saw a wheat paste "glue" being
used as a binder in one part of their decorating process. I'm sure many
natural ingredients available locally could have some beneficial effects.
But most clays have some ability to be fired and turn stronger; anything
organic will burn out in that process.)

Dean also talked about manure being used to make the ceramic
stronger by adding "micro cracks" (and it also provides a fuel for firing).
In the US right now there is a rapidly growing trend toward mixing a very
large amount of old paper to the base clay mixture. Pottery supply
catalogues are even selling special paper pulp that disintegrates more
rapidly. The strength goes way up from the pores created during firing -
and, being lighter, the clay is a better insulator. I have only learned of
this "revolution" in US pottery making in the last year.

Has anyone on this list explored the use of paper additives? I am
especially interested in learning about the optimum amount of paper (or
other organic materal) to add.

There may be a great role for this advance everywhere in the world.
Cow or horse manure is possibly as good in many places (but won't work in
the US - where we have plenty of scrap paper and an aversion to working
with manure - even if we could find it). A few years ago, I saw
lightweight concrete product also made mostly with paper - and highly
touted by its inventor as having both good insulating and structural
properties. It was amazing the size of "block" that one person could lift.
I'm not at all sure it could work as a stove material - but it might if
only holding in another, non-structural super insulator.

Dean also talked about adding sand to the clay. In the pottery
world this is called adding "grog" - and many materials (including
previously-fired, ground-up material) are used by potters. Grog does a lot
to add mechancial strength to clay - and does a lot to control rates of
expansion (important for matching glaze characteristics to clay
characteristics). In Kyrgyzstan, I tried using the "Keramika" (I have
previously described) to produce a home made light-weight, insulating
"brick". The amount of shrinkage (from wet to fired forms) went from about
6% to 1% when I used this very lightweight but rigid "grog". Incidentally,
today I tried floating this "Keramika" material and it floated about 15-20%
out of water (at first).

The point is that additives to clay - from the lightest organic
material to the heaviest inorganic materials all may have a place in the
optimum stove pottery pieces. Even though this industry is millenia old, I
doubt that we have gotten anywhere near the optimum product for a stove
application. I'm ready to do some experimentation (after I get past Earth
Day - April 22) and would love to hear from anyone who wants to suggest
their form of "optimum". (This is pretty easy for me to do, since my wife
has two kilns which will reach about 1300 C - which should be plenty).
Where should we be experimenting with pottery? Is it obvious to
some list member that a ceramic liner is the best way?

5. Composite and other materials. Should we be talking about two or
three of the above 4 options as having the best properties for developing
countries? (I am assuming in all the above that we are talking about
something with a material cost of no more than $10-$20 dollars (hopefully
less) - and a likelihood of being built locally. But the list should also
hear from those who believe that higher prices coupled with improved
performace and lifetime are the better approach.)
Or should we be talking about a light weight fibrous insulator
material as is being used in modern US pottery kilns. Maybe the cost can
come down enough to make this the best choice.
Anyone want to take this side of the argument?

Other - 1. Dean mentioned the name "Laurie Childers". I hope Dean can get
Laurie to further explain any ceramics lessons she has gained.
2. Dean also raised the issue of total stove weight. Has anyone
gotten to the range of about a kilogram? (The 3-stone method with a
reflector must be in this range - and I think we can get there with old
metal cans and "keramika"
or ashes and aluminum foil - with either charcoal-making or regular stoves).
3. Dean said "Multi-pot stoves help to raise the efficiency as
well." I have seen the opposite conclusion in early Eindhoven material
(as it relates to the usual two or more pots in series, as opposed to being
in parallel). Anyone wish to defend one or the other viewpoint?

Thansk to Dean and the others for keeping this important materials dialog
going. Maybe we can have a consensus answer by November in Pune.

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Tue Mar 21 19:35:30 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Fwd:Manley on Guatemala stoves
Message-ID: <v01540b01b4fdb90c70ea@[204.131.233.21]>

Stovers: This message just in from a new member (recruited by Norbert Senf
- Thanks). I just sent out a message not considering cold climates so
please let me take back some of my disparagement of heavy stoves. I really
know better, but I mostly have been working in warm climates. The rest of
this from Pat Manley:

Hi Stoves People
I would like to be included in this list, please.

I recently returned from a few weeks in the highlands of Guatemala building
cement block and brick cookstoves in a relocated Mayan Indian village called
Ixtahuacan, just west of, and 3000 feet higher than nearby Xela.
These cookstoves are particularly appropriate at higher elevations, where
they also benefit from the retained heat in the mass. There were mornings
there a few weeks ago, where the ice was an inch thick in the water bucket
in the morning.

We built the sides with block, the firebox with local fired brick, and
purchased fabricated cook tops in town. The final finish was cement on top,
around the outside of metal stovetop, and hi lime stucco on the sides.
I plan to go again next year.

I'd be interested in hearing about anyone elses similar experiences.
Thanks, Pat

jpmanley@midcoast.com

From rboetcke at bitcorp.net Wed Mar 22 12:18:40 2000
From: rboetcke at bitcorp.net (Richard Boetcker)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: A proponent of steel stoves
Message-ID: <38D8FFF5.3D7B2A4C@bitcorp.net>

Dear Stovers:

My name is Richard Boetcker and I had developed a steel stove back in
1985. It has gone through a lot of changes over the years to improve
the versatility. The efficiency is excellent and it can be used for all
types of cooking.. Check out my web site at "http://www.chrbo.com"
Send any comments to either the stoves group or me personally on the web
order page. I really would appreciate any input. I am negotiating with
a manufacturer presently concerning mass production of the stoves and am
very excited at the prospects. I believe that steel stoves will prove
to be the answer because of their long life. I still use one of the
original stoves I had made back in 1992 and it is still in fine shape.

Sincerely,

Richard C. Boetcker
Sandy, Utah USA

From larcon at sni.net Thu Mar 23 01:24:44 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Forwarding Dr. Yuri on materials
Message-ID: <v01540b01b4ff31294109@[204.131.233.16]>

Stovers: The following is a slightly edited version of material sent to me
by Dr. Yuri:

1. About "Leca Clay"
I have found in the Internet the address of a factory making Leca Clay
Pellets (city Tomsk, Siberia, <orion@oasis.cctpu.edu.ru>). I have written to
them and have asked them to write to you all that they know about Leca Clay
Pellets and light brick. I have received the answer - they are ready to
answer. We shall wait. I shall look some more for others if the answer will
not appear in reasonable time.

(RWL): Any other comments on "Leca" clay would be welcome. I will
also write to "orion". I have learned more about schist and will write
about it soon.

2. (On best stove material - clay)

You wrote " Is it obvious to some list member that a ceramic liner
is the best way? "

For a long time I have favored ceramics as a material for
furnaces and stoves. I have written that one of the most successful stoves
is the Japanese "heebacy" (or "Hibachi"), made from clay.

I want to offer Paul (Hait) a construction stove made from
ceramics. It should be cheaper and more long-lived than metal. The outboard
walls can be from ceramics clad by fiberglass.

It is possible to place Leca Clay Pellets between inner and outer
walls and to cover the top with clay. The air openings can be made near the
bottom or ducted from above. This can be a cheap and effective stove.

Yury

(RWL): I modified the last paragraph and am not sure I captured
Yuri's intent - and I ask Yuri to further modify - if I didn't.

I assume that we will hear from Paul Hait on why ceramics are not
as good a choice as stainless steel (especially including reflectivity).
But that is the reason for having a discussion.

My question for Paul is whether there might be a possibility for
very thin stainless pieces in his design to give the reflectivity - but to
use lightweight (and presumably lower cost) ceramics behind the steel to
provide the desired strength and insulation.

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From elizabethb at itdg.org.uk Thu Mar 23 05:58:59 2000
From: elizabethb at itdg.org.uk (Liz Bates)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Boiling Point journal no 44
Message-ID: <8066FCAD07EED31197650080C8E8A3DC08DA5C@itdg-mail>

Please could I put this on the stoves network - Liz

Dear Stoves network members

Please keep these details as brief as possible - space is already at a premium - I'm overwhelmed by the quality and quantity of material which has arrived for this edition...and agonizing as to what to hold till next time. Please, remember though, to give good contact details and I'll do my best to include your information.

If you do not currently receive Boiling Point and would care to do so, please let me know. It is distributed twice per year to about 1600 readers worldwide.

Thank you
Liz

Liz Bates
lizb@itdg.org.uk
Intermediate Technology Development Group
Schumacher Centre for Technology Development
Bourton Hall
Bourton On Dunsmore
Warwickshire
CV23 9QZ
Tel: +44 - 01788 661100
Fax: +44 - 01788 661101
http://www.oneworld.org/itdg
http:/www.itdg.org.pe

Company Reg. No 871954, England
Charity No 247257

From larcon at sni.net Thu Mar 23 08:57:39 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Forwarding Liz Bates request
Message-ID: <v01540b01b4ffc7289a4f@[204.131.233.28]>

Stovers - The following is per Liz' request:

Please could I put this on the stoves network - Liz

Dear Stoves network members

Boiling Point is a journal looking at all aspects of household energy in
development.The next issue of the journal Boiling Point will soon be
upon us, and I would like to invite anyone to give me details of any
events (after mid/late May), projects and/or publications which they
would care to have mentioned in this edition.
Please keep these details as brief as possible - space is
already at a premium - I'm overwhelmed by the quality and quantity of
material which has arrived for this edition...and agonizing as to what
to hold till next time. Please, remember though, to give good contact
details and I'll do my best to include your information.
If you do not currently receive Boiling Point and would care to
do so, please let me know. It is distributed twice per year to about
1600 readers worldwide.
Thank you
Liz

Company Reg. No 871954, England
Charity No 247257

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.1960.3">
<TITLE>Boiling Point journal no 44</TITLE>
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Please could I put this on the stoves network
- Liz

Dear Stoves network members

Boiling Point is a journal looking at all
aspects of household energy in development.The next issue of the journal
Boiling Point will soon be upon us, and I would like to invite anyone to
give me details of any events (after mid/late May), projects and/or
publications which they would care to have mentioned in this edition.

Please keep these details as brief as possible - space is
already at a premium - I'm overwhelmed by the quality and quantity of
material which has arrived for this edition...and agonizing as to what to
hold till next time. Please, remember though, to give good contact details
and I'll do my best to include your information.

If
you do not currently receive Boiling Point and would care to do so, please
let me know. It is distributed twice per year to about 1600 readers
worldwide.

Thank you
 Liz

Liz Bates
 lizb@itdg.org.uk
 Intermediate Technology Development Group
 Schumacher Centre for Technology
Development
 Bourton Hall
 Bourton On Dunsmore
 Warwickshire
 CV23 9QZ
 Tel:  +44 - 01788 661100
 Fax: +44 - 01788 661101
 <A
HREF="http://www.oneworld.org/itdg"
TARGET="_blank">http://www.oneworld.org/itdg</A>
 <A
HREF="http:/www.itdg.org.pe"
TARGET="_blank">http:/www.itdg.org.pe</A>

Company Reg. No 871954, England
 Charity No 247257

</BODY>
</HTML>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Fri Mar 24 21:00:47 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Forwarding Carlos Posada on sawdust briquettes
Message-ID: <v01540b00b501be1b4884@[204.131.233.40]>

Carlos:
1. Please let me know if I can sign you up for our stoves list.
2. There is a similar list in Spanish that you might check - "bioenergia.
Write to Rogerio Miranda <rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
3. We are not the correct list for briquetting - but please let us know if
you find some good sources.

Stovers: The rest is from Carlos -

>please help us to find where to find information for making sawdust =
>briquettes :
> 1.. glue to be used
> 2.. formulation
> 3.. how has equipment for making briquettes
>Thanks so much for your cooperation
>
>Carlos Posada
>e-mail : cposada@multiphone.net.co or
> kw_mark@hotmail.com
>Fax : ( 571 ) 2122500
>Bogot=E1 - Colombia

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From english at adan.kingston.net Fri Mar 24 23:22:26 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Conference and Materials
Message-ID: <200003250421.XAA04281@adan.kingston.net>

Dear Stovers,
The conference in Pune, India is partly focused on improved
production of charcoal and the utilization of the gassous by
products.

My most recent experiment in this area also offered me a lesson in
materials. I was surprised to discover that you can pyrolyse wood
pellets in a cheap metal pail without affecting the paint on the
outer surface. I think the pail itself, could last a long time. As
for the burner, at least it small and requires a relatively smaller
amount of refractory material.

Some text and few images can be viewed at the Stoves webpage. Check
under the NEW section.

Alex
Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Sat Mar 25 07:05:40 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Forwarding Carlos Posada on sawdust briquettes
In-Reply-To: <v01540b00b501be1b4884@[204.131.233.40]>
Message-ID: <a4apdss0i5qkf9d9k81240sdaitc89b9qt@4ax.com>

On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 19:10:53 -0600, you wrote:

>
>>please help us to find where to find information for making sawdust =
>>briquettes :
When does a briquette become a pellet? I assume the techniques are
similar but the presses different.
>> 1.. glue to be used
If the material is of low moisture content then given heat and
pressure no glue is needed as the lignin plasticises and then holds
the pellet/briquette together (mainly as a thin glazed coating the
middle remaining relatively friable).

This only from my reading and playing with a simple die and mandrel in
a vice!
>> 2.. formulation
>> 3.. how has equipment for making briquettes
The equipment for making pellets is very expensive, there is a cheaper
Japanese screw press for briquettes, an american indian village was
planning to market a simple briquetter but I have seen nothing of it
recently.
AJH

From english at adan.kingston.net Sat Mar 25 10:10:02 2000
From: english at adan.kingston.net (*.English)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Oh!! -- that small steam power plant ---
In-Reply-To: <200003190313.WAA30301@adan.kingston.net>
Message-ID: <200003251509.KAA21757@adan.kingston.net>

<snip>>
I was considering a micro scale, in the
> absence of an electricity grid with cooking taking place on idd
> woodstoves (essentially small hybrid pyrolyser/gasifiers with a large
> char residue) the char being utilised in cheap small gasifiers with no
> (or small) problems of gas cleanup in standard spark ignition engines
> to produce power.
>
> AJH

Hi,
I think this is worth a closer look. Lets start with all our usual
optimistic assumptions about fuel, technology and sociology. In a
mythical village of 100 people where each household cooked with a
pyrolyser stove and produced .5 kg of charcoal, at roughly 60% of
the fuel value of gasoline. If the charcoal gasifier was 60%
efficient our village might accumulate the equivalent of 18 kg of
gasoline, or roughly 25 litres, per day.

It is easy to produce charcoal from the "right" fuel, while producing
useful heat and low emissions. Check out
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Turbo/Turbo.htm
for one example of a pyrolyser/ charcoal making stove.
and
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/aburner/td1.htm
for a recent experiment of mine, based on the same principle.

Perhaps some one could tell us how much simpler it is to make a
charcoal gasifier than a wood gasifier for a spark ignition engine?

Lets try and compare this example to say that of a diesel unit
running on Jatropha oil. Aside from electrical generation, why not
use the torque to grind grain. For Jatropha, an hour spent pressing
oil can save many grinding grain. Can an hour spent resizing fuel for
a pyrolyser stove save as many grinding grain?

Current and forecasted oil prices should provide the necessary
"spark" to re-ignite the gasification and biodeisel folks into
action.

Alex

Alex English
RR 2 Odessa Ontario
Canada K0H 2H0
Tel 1-613-386-1927
Fax 1-613-386-1211

From costaeec at kcnet.com Sat Mar 25 11:07:03 2000
From: costaeec at kcnet.com (Jim Dunham)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Forwarding Carlos Posada on sawdust briquettes
Message-ID: <000801bf9674$356ef4a0$f465f0d1@default>

Our firm specializes in densification of all types, so perhaps we might be
of some help.

First, there is no formula or secret recipe, as NO binder is needed for most
biomass feedstock, if using high pressure equipment. The naturally occurring
lignin becomes the binder, when subjected to high heat and pressure.

There are three basic types of briquetters; hydraulic, reciprocal, & screw.
Each has advantages, depending on the application. The reciprocal type is
far more versatile and reliable, but costs more. We still use one built in
1946.

Briquettes are generally 50mm to 95mm in diameter and 10mm to 300mm long.
Capacities range from 500-6000 pounds per hour. We have made briquettes
from virtually all dry plant materials, as well as paper, currency,
corrugate, waxed corrugate, aluminum, rice husk, nut shells, etc., etc.
Briquettes are made to reduce volume or to provide fuel. Once densified,
these materials can be easily conveyed, stored, transported, stoker fed and
burned. The high density provides a very hot and clean burning fuel. It
totally changes the concept of using waste as a fuel. We have extensive data
regarding the economics and logistics of this concept.

Same machines make fireplace logs and BBQ wafers.

Pellets are just small briquettes (1/4-3/4" dia.), but are generally more
precise and uniform. They are much more difficult to make, but have specific
applications which require them, rather than briquettes.

Cubing is another method of densification. It produces a rather low density
product about 25mm square. It is fine for volume reduction, but does not
make such good fuel. It is low cost and quite effective for certain
applications.

We have specific data on most machines and materials, and also a test
facility for new or unusual materials. We also have all brands of new & used
machines.

Jim Dunham
Environmental Engineering Corp.
816-452-6663
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronal W. Larson <larcon@sni.net>
To: stoves@crest.org <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: cposada@multiphone.net.co <cposada@multiphone.net.co>;
kw_mark@hotmail.com <kw_mark@hotmail.com>; rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni
<rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
Date: Friday, March 24, 2000 8:15 PM
Subject: Forwarding Carlos Posada on sawdust briquettes

>Carlos:
>1. Please let me know if I can sign you up for our stoves list.
>2. There is a similar list in Spanish that you might check - "bioenergia.
>Write to Rogerio Miranda <rmiranda@sdnnic.org.ni>
>3. We are not the correct list for briquetting - but please let us know if
>you find some good sources.
>
>Stovers: The rest is from Carlos -
>
>>please help us to find where to find information for making sawdust =
>>briquettes :
>> 1.. glue to be used
>> 2.. formulation
>> 3.. how has equipment for making briquettes
>>Thanks so much for your cooperation
>>
>>Carlos Posada
>>e-mail : cposada@multiphone.net.co or
>> kw_mark@hotmail.com
>>Fax : ( 571 ) 2122500
>>Bogot=E1 - Colombia
>
>Ronal W. Larson, PhD
>21547 Mountsfield Dr.
>Golden, CO 80401, USA
>303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
>larcon@sni.net
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Sat Mar 25 13:32:21 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Conference and Materials
In-Reply-To: <200003250421.XAA04281@adan.kingston.net>
Message-ID: <asopds06rav6g4tk6l15s0du1ropai57n6@4ax.com>

On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:21:16 -0500, Alex wrote:

>Dear Stovers,
>The conference in Pune, India is partly focused on improved
>production of charcoal and the utilization of the gassous by
>products.
We are working our way through the various terms to use, last post it
was co-products. I suppose it depends where you are coming from:
a: The gasification crowd want no residue char and little heat loss in
the gasifier
b: The cooking stove people essentially want to close couple the
gasifier to the cooking surface and again have no need of residual
char.
c: We charcoal makers want to maximise char (including retained
volatiles) and reduce energy loss in the carbonising system.

As this is not an ideal environment we have to accept a compromise.
The idd stove is a gasifier with a high (25%?) char residue, this
residue contains most of the ash also. I had always assumed it made a
low volatiles charcoal because I thought the "flaming pyrolysis front"
was hot enough to char the sample thoroughly. Your recent experiment
seems to imply low temperatures. On my initial assumption it looked
like <40% of the total energy remained in the cold char. Ronal
considered this char not a bad thing for onward sale, Tom Reed saw no
use for it. I can see a niche for it as a cheap means of obtaining
power. Gasifying the char is reported to be easy, tar free and with
exhaust gas recirculation the producer gas reaction becomes less
exothermic. Until Tom Reed's new process is readily available for ic
engines it seems an available "fix" to co-produce charcoal from
cooking and thence use the char to power a spark ignition engine. What
I lack is the ability to work out the relative performance of a
charcoal gasifier compared with, say, a steam engine but assuming
30mJ/Kg for the char what is the cv of the CO and what effect does the
exhaust gas recirculation have on the enthalpy of the CO?. As I
previously posted absolute efficiency may be a lesser point than the
combined output of the cooking+charcoal system and cleanliness.
>
>My most recent experiment in this area also offered me a lesson in
>materials. I was surprised to discover that you can pyrolyse wood
>pellets in a cheap metal pail without affecting the paint on the
>outer surface. I think the pail itself, could last a long time. As
>for the burner, at least it small and requires a relatively smaller
>amount of refractory material.
So is the temperature kept low because of some special properties of
the pellets. I can see their relative density can have a bearing on
the size of the gasifier reaction zone, their uniform size will have a
big effect on the primary air flow. Is it the ability to control
primary air better that ensures a low temperature in the gasifier? Is
the yield of char higher?
AJH
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From dstill at epud.org Sun Mar 26 00:59:11 2000
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: More on materials
Message-ID: <002201b54697$84f966e0$3a2b74d8@default>

Dear Ronal,

Refractory cement mixtures including ones that insulate are available from
North American Refractories Company, Cleveland, Ohio (216) 621-5200. I'll
try to work along these lines to find an A.T. mixture, probably one for
durability and another for insulation.

Next week the students will run a series of tests of horse manure/sand/clay
to see if we can determine a best mixture. We're also building a kiln from
30 55 gallon steel drums. Two towers, one of which is a homemade cyclone!

This week we did six tests of the gap below a griddle or plancha. When the
hot flue gases passed below the griddle in a one and a half inch space the
efficiency was almost exactly half as good compared to narrowing the gap to
one half inch.

Forcing hot flue gases to scrape against the griddle through a narrow
passageway seems to be very important for increasing fuel efficiency.

We have seen so much repetition of increased efficiency with more pots that
I would be surprised if this were not so. Exposing more square footage of
pot(s) surface area to hot flue gases lowers exit temps. and gets more of
the heat in the pot(s). We use three pots in a line between the combustion
chamber and the chimney. If the pots are submerged below the griddle three
pots can absorb 40% of the heat released from the wood. The gap around the
sides and bottom of the pots is 1/4". A fourth pot helps a bit more but does
not warm to boiling.

Anyone know of any great deals to Pune?

Best,

Dean

From jpmanley at midcoast.com Sun Mar 26 05:27:12 2000
From: jpmanley at midcoast.com (Pat Manley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: More on materials
Message-ID: <200003261027.FAA02922@dns.midcoast.com>

"snip"
>This week we did six tests of the gap below a griddle or plancha. When the
>hot flue gases passed below the griddle in a one and a half inch space the
>efficiency was almost exactly half as good compared to narrowing the gap to
>one half inch.
>
>Forcing hot flue gases to scrape against the griddle through a narrow
>passageway seems to be very important for increasing fuel efficiency.

Another method to (absorb and) transfer more heat to the stove top is to
either cast, or fabricate "fins" to the underside of the stove top, that
extend 1/2 to 3/4 inches down into the flue gasses/firebox. The more surface
contact with the metal, the more heat is transfered to cooking surface.
May or may not be appropriate for various situations.
Best,

Patrick

>
>Best,
>
>Dean
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>
J Patrick Manley
15 Nelson Ridge South
Washington Maine
04574
207 845 2440

From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Sun Mar 26 09:03:52 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: More on materials
In-Reply-To: <002201b54697$84f966e0$3a2b74d8@default>
Message-ID: <kcqrdska5ijd44mi73stu591kblmhecv72@4ax.com>

On Sat, 12 Jan 1991 21:28:31 -0800, Dean wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???

>We have seen so much repetition of increased efficiency with more pots that
>I would be surprised if this were not so. Exposing more square footage of
>pot(s) surface area to hot flue gases lowers exit temps. and gets more of
>the heat in the pot(s). We use three pots in a line between the combustion
>chamber and the chimney. If the pots are submerged below the griddle three
>pots can absorb 40% of the heat released from the wood. The gap around the
>sides and bottom of the pots is 1/4". A fourth pot helps a bit more but does
>not warm to boiling.
I seem to remember reading of a British army cook stove, designed by
AGA for use in the Crimean War, that did just as you have described.

A colleague has described a turbulent burner (which is incredibly
noisy) in which a series of violent explosive flames scavenge the
surface gas layer from the heat exchange surface and hence aid heat
transfer. Hence a turbulent flue gas in the minimum space may increase
efficiency at the cost of requiring more draught.
AJH

From larcon at sni.net Sun Mar 26 10:32:40 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Forwarding English on Conference and Materials
Message-ID: <v01540b00b503d20a8261@[204.131.233.47]>

Stovers - It appears to me that Alex (inadvertently?) used his wife's
e-mail address. The rest from Alex:

Andrew,

> From: Andrew Heggie <andrew.heggie@dtn.ntl.com>

> We are working our way through the various terms to use, last post it
> was co-products. I suppose it depends where you are coming from:
> a: The gasification crowd want no residue char and little heat loss in
> the gasifier
> b: The cooking stove people essentially want to close couple the
> gasifier to the cooking surface and again have no need of residual
> char.
> c: We charcoal makers want to maximize char (including retained
> volatiles) and reduce energy loss in the carbonizing system.

> As this is not an ideal environment we have to accept a compromise.

Yes. Why not have more than one goal in mind. What are the needs and
what is the best way to meet them? If the charcoal maker is also a
kiln operator then he/she may find an optimum char yield that is not
the maximum but provides for a stable burner for the kiln. A minor
point, I know.

> The idd stove is a gasifier with a high (25%?) char residue, this
> residue contains most of the ash also.

I think that it is possible that >99% of the ash remains in the char.
At least when using small uniform fuel. This may be important for
non-wood residues whose ash content can result in some nasty
chemistry down stream in a heat exchanger.

> I had always assumed it made a
> low volatiles charcoal because I thought the "flaming pyrolysis front"
> was hot enough to char the sample thoroughly. Your recent experiment
> seems to imply low temperatures.

With uniformly small pore spaces in the fuel you don't get hot spots
associated with portions of the char being consumed to ash. With very
dry fuel the primary flow rate can be minimized, thus minimizing the
rate of exothermic pyrolysis and the rate of heat production.

> On my initial assumption it looked
> like <40% of the total energy remained in the cold char. Ronal
> considered this char not a bad thing for onward sale, Tom Reed saw no
> use for it. I can see a niche for it as a cheap means of obtaining
> power. Gasifying the char is reported to be easy, tar free and with
> exhaust gas recirculation the producer gas reaction becomes less
> exothermic. Until Tom Reed's new process is readily available for ic
> engines it seems an available "fix" to co-produce charcoal from
> cooking and thence use the char to power a spark ignition engine. What
> I lack is the ability to work out the relative performance of a
> charcoal gasifier compared with, say, a steam engine but assuming
> 30mJ/Kg for the char what is the cv of the CO and what effect does the
> exhaust gas recirculation have on the enthalpy of the CO?. As I
> previously posted absolute efficiency may be a lesser point than the
> combined output of the cooking+charcoal system and cleanliness.

It may come down to the fuel.
A.) If the fuel is available , or easily
made small, like cotton stalks of nut shells, and the people could
afford a clean stove like Tom's, then the charcoal making stove/
gasifier community system would have an advantage.

B.) If the fuel is larger, like coppice cooking wood (say up to 10cm
dia.), then a larger charcoal maker with the volatiles being burned
for the steam engine and the charcoal being used for cooking fuel in
cheaper improved charcoal stoves may be a better way to go.

Other possibilities may be better still.

Logistics and economics often play a bigger role than thermal
efficiency, even when making a "rational" choice. Surely either one
of these senarios could be a big step forward for some communities.

> So is the temperature kept low because of some special properties of
> the pellets. I can see their relative density can have a bearing on
> the size of the gasifier reaction zone, their uniform size will have a
> big effect on the primary air flow. Is it the ability to control
> primary air better that ensures a low temperature in the gasifier?

I think so.

> Is the yield of char higher?

I have not measured it.
I can do the measurements when I start experimenting again this
summer.

I'll have to try building a charcoal gasifier.
Alex

> AJH

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Mar 28 08:33:24 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: Densification as a major aid to biomass utilization
Message-ID: <75.291a300.26120e80@cs.com>

Dear Stovers and Gasifiers:

Jim Dunham's posting (below) is a welcome modern comment on densification of
biomass and covers the facts well.

When I first joined the Solar Energy Research Institute in 1977 I wrote (with
Becky Bryant) an assessment of the technology and economics of densification
after visiting several sites.

Densification makes low grade biomass into an excellent fuel. The energy
cost of densification is about 3% of the energy in the product. (This
doesn't include drying to 10-20%, because that is paid back in better
combustion).

Densification has progressed to the point where we now buy pellets for our
gasifier in the local hardware store for $2.50/40 lb bag ($125/ton) and bulk
pellets can be purchased for as little as $50/ton. So we've made some
progress in 23 years.

The BEF Press has just printed a second edition of "DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW
FORM OF SOLID FUEL" including a scientific paper on densification I wrote in
1980(see below).

Unfortunately, densification is caught in a "chicken or egg" trap. If more
people burned or gasified biomass there would be more pellets/briquettes/logs
produced; if more were produced, more would develop uses and burn them. So
densification is doomed to only progress as fast as biomass prospers and that
is tied to oil prices.

So, I have learned to be patient as we stagger toward renewable energy.

Yours truly, TOM REED BEF PRESS

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(Nicknames in Bold, book descriptions follow)

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Evaluation of the energy potential to grow trees for energy. ISBN
1-890607-05-3 260 pp $30 _________

WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: Nils Nygards (1973). Translation of recent
results of Swedish Agricultural Testing Institute. ISBN 1-890607-08-8 50
pp. $4_________

CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: H. LaFontaine (1989) - Over
25 drawings and photographs on building a gasifier for fueling IC engines in
a Petroleum Emergency (FEMA RR28). ISBN 1-890607-11-8 68 pp $15________

BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: Ed. T. Reed and M. Graboski, 1982.
Expert articles on conversion of biomass to methanol. ISBN 1-890607-10-X
331 pp $30_________

THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: N. Skov and M.
Papworth, (1974). Description and beautiful detailed drawings of various
gasifiers and systems from World War II.
ISBN 1-890607-09-6 80 pp $20________

GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: A. Kaupp. (Veiweg, 1984)
Applies gasification to rice hulls, since rice hulls are potentially a major
energy source - yet have unique problems in gasification. ISBN
1-890607-07-X 303 pp $30_________

TREES: by Jean Giono, 1953. While we strongly support using biomass for
energy, we are also very concerned about forest destruction. This delightful
story says more than any sermon on the benefits and methods of
reforestation. ISBN 1-89060712-6 8 pp $1_________

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

In a message dated 3/25/00 9:11:18 AM Mountain Standard Time,
costaeec@kcnet.com writes:

<<

Our firm specializes in densification of all types, so perhaps we might be
of some help.

First, there is no formula or secret recipe, as NO binder is needed for most
biomass feedstock, if using high pressure equipment. The naturally occurring
lignin becomes the binder, when subjected to high heat and pressure.

There are three basic types of briquetters; hydraulic, reciprocal, & screw.
Each has advantages, depending on the application. The reciprocal type is
far more versatile and reliable, but costs more. We still use one built in
1946.

Briquettes are generally 50mm to 95mm in diameter and 10mm to 300mm long.
Capacities range from 500-6000 pounds per hour. We have made briquettes
from virtually all dry plant materials, as well as paper, currency,
corrugate, waxed corrugate, aluminum, rice husk, nut shells, etc., etc.
Briquettes are made to reduce volume or to provide fuel. Once densified,
these materials can be easily conveyed, stored, transported, stoker fed and
burned. The high density provides a very hot and clean burning fuel. It
totally changes the concept of using waste as a fuel. We have extensive data
regarding the economics and logistics of this concept.

Same machines make fireplace logs and BBQ wafers.

Pellets are just small briquettes (1/4-3/4" dia.), but are generally more
precise and uniform. They are much more difficult to make, but have specific
applications which require them, rather than briquettes.

Cubing is another method of densification. It produces a rather low density
product about 25mm square. It is fine for volume reduction, but does not
make such good fuel. It is low cost and quite effective for certain
applications.

We have specific data on most machines and materials, and also a test
facility for new or unusual materials. We also have all brands of new & used
machines.

Jim Dunham
Environmental Engineering Corp.
816-452-6663
>>
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Tue Mar 28 08:33:29 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Oh!! -- that small steam power plant ---
Message-ID: <36.3ca8400.26120e85@cs.com>

Alex English writes...

<<
Perhaps some one could tell us how much simpler it is to make a
charcoal gasifier than a wood gasifier for a spark ignition engine?
>>

Most of the early work on gasification (1900-1940) used charcoal for its
convenience, and hang the cost or inefficiency. After WWII got going all the
countries realized that throwing away 70% of the wood energy to make the
charcoal was destroying their forests, so they took the extra steps required
for wood gasifiers (tar cleaning etc.) It's all detailed in the books below
and I have been re-reading them with new insites. "Those who don't study
history are doome dto repeat the mistakes of history." (Lord Acton?)

We are developing a "tarfree" gasifier at CPC and expect to throw out all the
wet scrubbing etc. the bedeviled the WWII "Stoves".

Yours truly, TOM REED CPC/BEF

ORDER LIST - Biomass Energy Books
(Nicknames in Bold, book descriptions follow)

1. A SURVEY OF BIOMASS GASIFICATION 2000: $25

2. BIOMASS DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS HANDBOOK: $25

3. CONTAMINANT TESTING FOR GASIFIER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $10

4. BIOMASS GASIFIER "TARS": THEIR NATURE, FORMATION, AND CONVERSION: $25

5. GENGAS: THE SWEDISH CLASSIC ON WOOD FUELED VEHICLES: $30

6. SMALL SCALE GAS PRODUCER ENGINE SYSTEMS: $30

7. PRODUCER-GAS: ANOTHER FUEL FOR MOTOR TRANSPORT: $10

8. FUNDAMENTAL STUDY AND SCALEUP OF THE AIR-OXYGEN STRATIFIED
DOWNDRAFT GASIFIER: $30

9. EVALUATION OF GASIFICATION AND NOVEL THERMAL PROCESSES
FOR THE TREATMENT OF MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE - MSW $25

10. DENSIFIED BIOMASS: A NEW FORM OF SOLID FUEL: $12

11. WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: $4

12. CONSTRUCTION OF A SIMPLIFIED WOOD GAS GENERATOR: $15

13. BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: $30

14. THE PEGASUS UNIT: THE LOST ART OF DRIVING WITHOUT GASOLINE: $20

15. GASIFICATION OF RICE HULLS: THEORY AND PRAXIS: $30

16. TREES: $1

17. TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: $30

18. FROM THE FRYER TO THE FUEL TANK: HOW TO MAKE CHEAP,
CLEAN FUEL FROM FREE VEGETABLE OIL: $20

BOOKS FROM THE BIOMASS ENERGY FOUNDATION PRESS

Biomass Energy Books - Description and Order Blank

TREE CROPS FOR ENERGY CO-PRODUCTION ON FARMS: Tom Milne (SERI 1980)
Evaluation of the energy potential to grow trees for energy. ISBN
1-890607-05-3 260 pp $30 _________

WOOD GAS GENERATORS FOR VEHICLES: Nils Nygards (1973). Translation of recent
results of Swedish Agricultural Testing Institute. ISBN 1-890607-08-8 50
pp. $4_________

BIOMASS TO METHANOL SPECIALISTS' WORKSHOP: Ed. T. Reed and M. Graboski, 1982.
Expert articles on conversion of biomass to methanol. ISBN 1-890607-10-X
331 pp $30_________

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

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From andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com Thu Mar 30 16:16:56 2000
From: andrew.heggie at dtn.ntl.com (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Oh!! -- that small steam power plant ---
In-Reply-To: <36.3ca8400.26120e85@cs.com>
Message-ID: <kcf7es8fhgmcl4op17r7d251ioe7gi9r23@4ax.com>

On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:32:53 EST, Tom wrote:

>Most of the early work on gasification (1900-1940) used charcoal for its
Yup, I understand that.
>convenience, and hang the cost or inefficiency. After WWII got going all the
>countries realized that throwing away 70% of the wood energy to make the
But the whole point for this discussion is that nothing is thrown
away. The wood is pyrolysed to charcoal and the off gas is burned
cleanly to cook food. Ronal was previously a champion of this
co-product for export as a cash return, Alex and I were just
suggesting an alternate market to cooking charcoal.

I have been discussing the relative merits of converted automobile
engines as prime movers (powered with steam versus producer gas) with
Vernon Harris. He suggests that some cultures are so poor any
technology will require continuing support. My viewpoint is parochial,
I have not travelled anywhere dependant on biomass as a cooking fuel.
It seems to me that automobile technology is available to many people
still dependant on biomass for cooking. Fuel for these engines must be
a drain on currency. My guess was that substituting an imported fuel
with a home grown one would be beneficial.
>charcoal was destroying their forests, so they took the extra steps required
>for wood gasifiers (tar cleaning etc.) It's all detailed in the books below
>and I have been re-reading them with new insites. "Those who don't study
>history are doome dto repeat the mistakes of history." (Lord Acton?)
>
>We are developing a "tarfree" gasifier at CPC and expect to throw out all the
>wet scrubbing etc. the bedeviled the WWII "Stoves".
I hope you do bring this device to the market, but will it be cheaper
than a charcoal gasifier and as simple as the Kalle one appears to be?
My proposition was that a charcoal gasifier might be cheaper to make,
easier to operate and more compact than a wood gasifier.
AJH
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From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Mar 31 09:48:11 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:31 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Carbon Monoxide Toxicity
Message-ID: <98.3429466.26161482@cs.com>

Dear All:

It is quite true that carbon monoxide is toxic. Two deep breaths of it will
kill you. On the other hand, producer gas (wood-gas, gengas etc.) was the
only gaseous fuel available to humanity from 1830-1930 when the first
"natural gas" pipeline from Texas arrived in Denver. Smokers regularly live
with 300 ppm CO in their blood. OSHA says that we should start worrying when
levels reach 40 ppm (all day limit?).

So, humans have learned to live (or die - convenient for suicide) with CO in
the past. We now have inexpensive CO warning devices and our new CPC lab has
three.

If learning to live with CO is the only problem in developing biomass
gasification, turbo stoves etc. for renewable energy, I guess we'll have to
live with it.

Onward==> TOM REED BEF

In a message dated 3/28/00 1:42:14 PM Mountain Standard Time, arnt@c2i.net
writes:

<< >
> Dear Mr. Arnt:
> How about lost case?

..is what you will experience if over here you ask upfront.

..as in "CO, isn't that this dangerous lethal poisonous gas"...

..afterwards, when a record has been built and can be documented as
safe, profitable, environmentally friendly, etc in courtrooms and media,
your chances _improves_.

--
..mvh/wKRf Arnt ;-)
>>
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BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

March 2000 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive