November 2000 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From eastdev at home.com Wed Nov 1 19:58:06 2000
From: eastdev at home.com (Tilahoun Solomon)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: charcoal kiln
Message-ID: <200011020058.TAA27959@crest.solarhost.com>

Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:11:41 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04416.09E44CE0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04416.09E44CE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am looking into a possibility of producing charcoal overseas from =
mesquite plant. I would appreciate if you could help me where I could =
purchase the equipment i.e the kiln to make the charcoal. You can =
contact me at (510) 656-4744 or e-mail me at the above address.
Regards Tilahuon Solomon=20

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04416.09E44CE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
I am looking into a possibility of producing = charcoal overseas=20 from mesquite plant. I would appreciate if you could help me where = I could=20 purchase the equipment i.e the kiln to make the charcoal. You can = contact=20 me at (510) 656-4744 or e-mail me at the above address.
Regards Tilahuon = Solomon

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C04416.09E44CE0--

The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From larcon at sni.net Thu Nov 2 08:45:58 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Freitas Re: Pillow Shape Charcoal Briquettes
Message-ID: <v01540b02b626550d4c85@[204.131.233.46]>

Stovers - This useful information on briquette patents.

Regina - Perhaps you could get back to us on this. I am surprised that
basic patents on this technology would still be active - as the ""pillow"
shape seems quite old.

On your second question about numbers using biomass materials for
cooking, I have heard two numbers:
Half (or about 3 billion people)
2 Billion people

anyone else care to guess (more authoritatively than my passing on
unsubstantiated estimates)? My guess is that there have been no valid
surveys.

Re your third observation about a Brazilian stove, plesae sendin
more information on the design as soon as you can. We also worry a good
bit about costs and efficiency.

Thanks for your contribution.

Patrick - Please let us know how you solve this problem. Writing directly
to Regina (as she has welcomed you) would probably be a good idea.

Ron

>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 08:07:28 -0500
>From: regina freitas <terran1@bellsouth.net>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: "Ronal W. Larson" <larcon@sni.net>
>Subject: Re: Pillow Shape Charcoal Briquettes
>
>Mr. Larson and Stovers.
>
>Pursuant to the request from the Indonesia company regarding the equipment
>requested,
>equipment for the pillow shape charcoal briquette, they must look to already
>existing technology, to purchase or lease it, we run into the problem and
>could not
>incorporate it into our briquette machine because of the existing patent
>(s) on the
>technology, however we could intruduce them to several manufaturers if
>they have
>continued interest.
>
>I have a question for all you stover all there.
>
>On your estimate, how many households, world wide, still uses
>wood/charcoal/coal for
>cooking?
><NB>
>I found a manufacturer in the southern part of Brazil that manufactures a wood
>burning stove, but the thing is a little too big to be easily
>transported, but it
>fascinates me, as you cook, the water is heated, it also produces heating
>for the
>home in the winter, the heat can be directed outside in the summer, and it
>has also
>a small oven for baking, they are testing our briquette, and I will let
>you know,
>how much carbon was found in the room.
>regards,
>Regina Freitas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Ronal W. Larson wrote:
>
>> Stovers:
>>
>> The following is a bounced message that I guess is worthy of
>>sending on.
>>
>> Patrick:
>> We have a few persons on the list who might have the ability to
>> help - but I am afraid you may have to simply get to the desired result by
>> trial and error. Most of the discussion on this list has been about
>> extruded cylindrical shapes.
>>
>> Please be sure that you do not use charcoal that has been produced
>> badly - that is produced inefficiently and without flaring (and then
>> without using the very valuable heat released upon flaring). Please use
>> only scrap materials that would otherwise be rotting away.
>>
>> Our list is free and we would be glad to sign yu up.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> Patrick wrote:
>>
>> > We are a Indonesian based company and we want to make the above so can
>> > you assist us in the design of the press machine to make the Pillow
>> > shape.
>> > Can you just give us some ideas so that we may fabricate the machines in
>> > Indonesia?
>> > Thanking you and best regards
>> > Patrick
>>
>> Patrick <pat001@pd.jaring.my>
>>
>> The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>> Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>> Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>> Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>> http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From larcon at sni.net Thu Nov 2 08:46:03 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding 4 stovers re Inversin on electricity for cooking
Message-ID: <v01540b03b62658741935@[204.131.233.46]>

The following four "stoves" list members (Prasad, Verhaart, Calderon, and
Kikuyi) all came through me with a message for transmittal to Alan Inversin
<Allen.Inversin@nreca.org>. I see no need to comment on this excellent
help, except to say I'll bet there are others who might provide help and I
hope Allen Inversin will let us know what else he may learn.
.

Response #1:
>From: "K.K. Prasad" <tnntpr@hermes.tue.nl>

>Dear Mr.Inversin
>
>It was wonderful to see your name on the screen. Thought it would be
>nice to say Hello.
>
>Now turning to your question about the level of fuel
>(biomass) consumption for cooking. It is a tricky question. The
>number I usually use is 9GJ per person per year. This is based on two
>studies - one by ASTRA (used to stand for the Centre for the
>Application of Science and Technology for Rural Areas; that was in
>them days - seventies; the acronym stll stands; but I'm not sure of
>the expansion any more) at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore
>and another by the late Roger Revelle on India. The former was a
>census study carried out in six villages in the State of Karnataka
>and the latter was a desk study carried out at Harvard. The
>references are:
>
>ASTRA, 1981. Rural Energy Consumption Patterns: A field Study.
>Centre for the Application of Science and Technology to Rural Areas,
>Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore ( I don't know how you can get
>hold of this, but you can try writing to Prof.A.K.N.Reddy at
><amulya1@vsnl.com>; If you wish I can send a photocopy by "snail
>mail"; I'll need your pstal address; sorry no electronic form with
>me)
>
>Revelle, R., 1976. Energy use in rural India. Science, vol.192, p
>969.
>
>I also used some global data on biomass energy use presented in
>
>World Energy Council, 1994. New Renewable Energy sources, Kogan Page,
>London.
>
>That gave the number of 13.322GJ/capitaYr.
>
>More data of an international nature are available in:
>
>Biomass: Regenerable Energy, Edited by D.O.Hall and R.P.Overend, John
>Wiley and Sons, 1987.
>
>Leach, G. and Gowen,M., 1987. Household Energy Handbook: An Interim
>Guide and Reference ManualWorld Bank Technical Paper Number 67.
>
>Much of this work is dated as you will realize. As a colleague in
>Holland put it, doing a rural energy survey on the 758th village no
>longer represents Science. That was nearly five years back. There
>aint no money for this type of work any more. If I guess right, there
>aint no money for folks who are rural and poor in this globalized
>economy!
>
>I cannot end this without reference to our journal. It is still being
>published though not without some very violent hiccups. I sure would
>love to receive some contributions from you. Do you still have
>contacts with Dale Nafziger? Is he still in Nepal or bck in the US?
>
>Again it was a pleasant surprise to see that you are still concerned
>with the problem of rural electrification and small hydro power. I
>did a conference paper couple of years back on the topic of biomass
>based rural electrification ( a desk study I'm afraid!). If you are
>interested I can send you a copy.Do keep in touch.
>
>Sincerely yours
>K.Krishna Prasad
>Editor, Energy for Sustainable Development

Response #2:

>From: Peter Verhaart <verhaarp@janus.cqu.edu.au>
>Subject: Re: Forwarding Inversin on electricity for cooking
>
>Allen Inversin asked about energy requirements for cooking.
>In "Wood energy for cooking", we did some calculations for cooking rice.
>Neglecting the 'delta G' for the transition from raw to cooked rice, all
>you need is energy to bring rice and 1.5 times its weight in water to the
>boil. Assuming the specific heat capacity of rice to be equal to that of
>water (it is actually much lower) would give a margin of safety.
>Pan losses can be measured in the field with a thermometer and a stopwatch,
>this gives a figure for the heat flow necessary to keep pan and contents at
>boiling point. Efficiency of the electric heater 90 %, and you will have an
>idea of the energy needs for cooking.
>
>Peter Verhaart
>

Response #3

>From: "Derick Calderon" <entre16@intelnet.net.gt>

>Your news is very interesting.NRECA has been active in Guatemala installing
>Hydro Electric Plants and distribution systems. However the cost is very
>high and most rural cooperatives and farmers have not been able to obtain
>enough funds .We have installed a 10 Kw unit and are in the process of
>installing a second one in the maountains But we beleive that windpower may
>become a better and less expensive solution in the long run.
>We beleive that rural cooking with charcoal should become a good solution
>for the many forestry problems.
>
>Cordially
>
>Derick Calderon
>Derick Calderon
>Tel 502 3671197 Fax 502 3671196
>7 Ave 15-79 Guatemala 001010

Response $4:

>From: "Kituyi, Evans" <E.KITUYI@CGIAR.ORG>
>
>Dear Ron,
>That was a good piece of information. Micro-Hydro schemes are now being
>planned for in Kenya with initial efforts by ITDG. Various countries in the
>eastern African region are facing drought that has seriously affected the
>power generation capacities (over 95% of electricical power in most of these
>countries in hydro). This has terribly injured important sectors of the
>economies here. I recently organised a national workshop on energy security
>and technology, at which alternative institutional arrangements for power
>generation were discussed. Micro-hydro power options were stressed and am
>really interested in getting more info from experienced people. Kindly link
>me to Allen Inversin. I'll also be glad to purchase a copy of his book and
>other materials. I'm doing a post doc research proposal on barriers to
>energy technology development with a focus on micro-hydro, solar, wind, and
>biomass. Thanks
>
>Evans Kituyi
>African Centre for Technology Studies (ACTS)
>e.kituyi@cgiar.org
>

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From ksblack at bellsouth.net Fri Nov 3 00:12:27 2000
From: ksblack at bellsouth.net (Karee Black)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <200011030512.AAA01451@crest.solarhost.com>

I would like to know how to build a small retort or kiln for changing hardwood sawdust and chips into charcoal. thanks
KK
"Seize The Moment"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time.
Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today!
http://webmail.bellsouth.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From bwoodly at SURMACCAT.COM Fri Nov 3 13:21:25 2000
From: bwoodly at SURMACCAT.COM (B. Woodly)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Charcoal making stoves
Message-ID: <200011031821.NAA30658@crest.solarhost.com>

Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 00:01:57 -0300
Message-ID: <01bc0290$78dc9740$1700a8c0@nt-server.surmaccat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BC0277.538F5F40"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: stoves@crest.org
X-Return-Path: bwoodly@SURMACCAT.COM

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BC0277.538F5F40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear sir,
i recently came a cross your e mail adress while i was searching for =
charcoal making stoves.My name is Ben Woodly and i am a sales =
representitive off the Agriculture and
Forestry departement off CKC SURMAC NV .This company is the authorized =
dealer=20
off Caterpillar -Massy Ferguson- Ingersoll-Rand-Aladdin -Rome -etc ( =
machines,parts ,
equipment) in Suriname-SouthAmerica.
A client is interested in purchasing a charcoal stove witch he will use =
in a land clearing project off 2000 ha off forest.If your company is =
manufacturing these stoves we would like information regarding size =
capacity and prizes.If your nota manufacture but know one please supply =
use with some information.

with kind regards

B Woolly
Agriculture&Forestry department
CKC SURMAC NV

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BC0277.538F5F40
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
Dear sir,
i recently came a cross your e mail adress while i = was=20 searching for
charcoal making stoves.My name is Ben Woodly and i am a = sales=20
representitive off the Agriculture and
Forestry departement off CKC SURMAC NV .This = company is=20 the
authorized dealer
off Caterpillar -Massy Ferguson- = Ingersoll-Rand-Aladdin -Rome=20 -etc (
machines,parts ,
equipment) in Suriname-SouthAmerica.
A client is interested in purchasing a charcoal = stove witch he=20 will
use in a land clearing project off 2000 ha = off=20 forest.If your company
is manufacturing these stoves we would like = information=20 regarding size
capacity and prizes.If your nota manufacture but know=20 one please supply
use with some = information.

with kind regards

B Woolly
Agriculture&Forestry department
CKC SURMAC NV

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BC0277.538F5F40--

From jovick at island.net Sat Nov 11 20:52:29 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Charcoal Pellet Fuel
Message-ID: <000a01c04c31$8e74c660$6fb8fea9@jovick>

November 11, 2000

Dear Stoves

Does anyone have data on charcoal pellet fuel. I
have heard it has 4 times the BTU's of wood pellets.
I have nothing concrete to support this, so if some
one knows, please let me know.

Also I would like to know the burn rate compared to
wood and wood pellets. Thanks in advance.

John Flottvik
J.F.Ventures Ltd

From jovick at island.net Sun Nov 12 11:25:21 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Charcoal Pellet Fuel
Message-ID: <000a01c04cab$6f177220$6fb8fea9@jovick>

November 12, 2000

Good Morning Charles And Stovers

First, thanks for the quick response to my
questions.
Second, I should clarify how high my up is.

We are very close to firing up our continuous
process pilot plant, and the phone is ringing of the wall from people wanting
charcoal pellet fuel. Our variables are very controllable, first all feedstock
is sawdust size, second this is bone dried before entering the Retorts, Third we
can determent what heat we want in our refinery, we can also determent the feed
rate of the sawdust.
Our retorts are air absent, so we hope to have very
little ash. Finally we will mix predetermined quality char,starch,and
water,
push through an extruder ( any size needed) and
then experiment with a dryer (length, heat etc)bag and sell.

We recently had visits from British Columbians
Environment Ministry,and two engineers, all of whom was quite impressed by our
plant. Anyhow, this info gives you a better idea of our process. All the
feed on Vancouver island will be Cedar, Yellow Cedar, Hemlock and
Balsam.

<FONT face=Arial
size=2>
Thanks again for your points, and have a good day

<FONT face=Arial
size=2>
Sincerely   John Flottvik

From jovick at island.net Sun Nov 12 16:10:06 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Pellets
Message-ID: <000a01c04cd3$3d4c60c0$6fb8fea9@jovick>

November 12, 2000

Andy

Stoves did not receive your e-mail to me regarding
the pellet fuel info I requested. Do you mind me sending it.

Also would you like me to send you a copy of the
advertisement spread going into Wood Quip magazine in the U.S.

Ron

Thanks for your info.
Question; Will the quality ( carbon content) of the
pellet charcoal make it burn faster or slower?
The more info we can get the better, however making
and testing the product will hopefully give us the answers we are looking
for.

Meanwhile, we very much appreciate all the support.
Thanks.

Also if stoves would like to see our add photo I
will send.

John Flottvik
J.F.Ventures Ltd
Phone 250-949-9795
<FONT face=Arial
size=2>Fax 250-949-9722

From elk at net2000ke.com Mon Nov 13 13:59:11 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: e-mail change for elk
Message-ID: <002c01c04da2$657ff820$3546cac3@pentium333>

Hi y'all;

I'm a victim of ISP atrophy, and have found no sound
excuse NOT to change servers at this point.

Cheaper and faster sounds good to me. I'll run on both 'till
the end of this month, and as of December 1st, switch completely to <A
href="mailto:elk@wanachi.com">elk@wanachi.com

Please note!

Meanwhile, use either. I'll post a reminder closer to the end of the
month.

elk

-----------------------------------------------<A
href="mailto:elk@net2000ke.com">elk@net2000ke.com<A
href="mailto:elk@wananchi.com">elk@wananchi.comElsen L. Karstad, Nairobi
Kenya

From jovick at island.net Mon Nov 13 17:46:37 2000
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Fw: Charcoal Pellet Fuel
Message-ID: <000e01c04da9$df0914e0$6fb8fea9@jovick>

Ron
Here is the reply Andy sent me on pellet fuel.on November 12

Regards John Flottvik

----- Original Message -----
From: <Andystokes@aol.com>
To: <jovick@island.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: Charcoal Pellet Fuel

> Charcoal pellet fuel if bone dry and made from charcoal from pine wood
(low
> ash) wood have a btu value of about 15000 btu per pound. Wood pellet fuel
> made from raw wood of about 50% moisture would have a btu value of about
> 4500. Thus you can see the limits at the extremes. I suspect that most
> charcoal pellets will have about 10% moisture and 5% ash so the btu value
> would be about 13000 while most wood pellets will be only about 20%
moisture
> and 5% ash so the btu value would be about 7000 so we then have a roughly
2
> to 1 ratio. I have spent a lot of my life involved with making charcoal
and
> charcoal briquettes which are just large pellets.
>
> The burning rate of charcoal varies greatly with ash content and the
> character of the ash chemically. If ash is low and very low in alkalinity
it
> is hard to make the darn stuff burn at all. Wood pellets may burn
> considerably faster than charcoal if the wood is in a large enough fire to
> cause the volatile matter to be driven off fast.
>
> The problem with your question is there are so many variables that it is
like
> asking how high is up.
>
>
> I hope this may help you a little.
>
> Charles A. (Andy)
Stokes,Sc.
> D., P.E.
>

From elk at net2000ke.com Tue Nov 14 01:30:22 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: OOPS! typo correction on address....
Message-ID: <00a001c04e03$14b8d5e0$e340083e@pentium333>

My abject apologies- I finger-slipped in the previous
message.

My new e-mail address is <A
href="mailto:elk@wananchi.com">elk@wananchi.com

elk
-----------------------------------------------<A
href="mailto:elk@net2000ke.com">elk@net2000ke.com<A
href="mailto:elk@wananchi.com">elk@wananchi.comElsen L. Karstad, Nairobi
Kenya

From larcon at sni.net Fri Nov 17 01:56:29 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Forwarding Elsen Karstad (on recent honors)
Message-ID: <v01540b01b63a73698432@[204.131.233.43]>

Stovers - 1. The following message was received privately from Elsen
Karstad - but I don't think he will mind with my congratulating him
publicly (through "stoves" on this major personal and charcoal-making
success he describes below.

2. Elsen was also invited to make a presentation on this (or
something closely similar) at a major conference called "Village Power" -
held in Washington DC in early December. From my short stay with Elsen a
few years ago, I can say that both these honors are well deserved. Elsen
is a very hard working and ingenious entrepeneur.

3. Not related to the above, Elsen is your temporary list
coordinator while Alex English and I are off to Pune.

Elsen: One comment on your report below - do you think there might be a
chance that your carbonizer could be placed close to their boiler - to make
good use of your "waste" gases?

Ron

The rest of this as received today from Elsen:

>Apologies for keeping quiet lately... and for this 'sent-to-everyone'
>e-mail, but.........
>
>It's on!
>
>Mumias Sugar Company, which produces 60% of Kenya's sugar, discussed our
>proposal at their Nov. board meeting and approved it!
>
>We'll scale the plant to the amount waste bagasse that is available after
>electrical co-generation- though we expect that it will remain at the
>proposed (10/t/day) size or bigger.
>
>For those who are wondering what this is all about- I've formed a new
>company called Chardust Ltd. around the recently developed 'Particulate
>Biomass Carboniser' we've made here in Nairobi. Add the huge meat-miner
>style briquetter we've designed, stir in the binders that glue it all
>together and it's 'CaneCoal'! Briquetted charcoal from the sugar factory
>waste fiber 'bagasse'. Mumias Sugar Company processes up to 8 million kg
>of sugar cane per day- producing 3.2 million tons of bagasse, most of
>which is used in the boilers powering the factory. On average 390 tons per
>day are surplus- waste material that the factory pays to have hauled away
>and burnt.
>
>We are going to turn some of this into charcoal and maybe save a few trees
>doing it. Profitably too!
>
>Wow. 2001 is going to be busy!
>
>love to all;
>elk
>-----------------------------------------------
>elk@net2000ke.com
>elk@wananchi.com
>Elsen L. Karstad, Nairobi Kenya

From larcon at sni.net Fri Nov 17 01:56:30 2000
From: larcon at sni.net (Ronal W. Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: On Pune conference departure
Message-ID: <v01540b02b63a77917e2f@[204.131.233.43]>

Stovers .

Along with several other "stoves" list members, my wife and I leave
tomorrow for Pune. (we travel through Amman, Jordan).

Priya continues to amaze me at how well she is organizing this
wonderful chance to meet other (present and future) list members.

With luck, we will be sending back conference "reports" beginning
on Monday.

Anyone with specific questions (or messages) for "stoves" list
attendees to research (or forward) should send them on to Dr. Priya ASAP.

Ron

Ronal W. Larson, PhD
21547 Mountsfield Dr.
Golden, CO 80401, USA
303/526-9629; FAX same with warning
larcon@sni.net

From elk at net2000ke.com Mon Nov 20 01:02:56 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:41 2004
Subject: Fw: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from [luiza@gurlmail.com]
Message-ID: <009b01c052b6$8c2f27c0$e841cac3@pentium333>

Stovers;

This has been bounced to me in my temporary capacity as list coordinator.

Luiza asks about the comparative efficiency of gas and electric stoves.
Anybody have the hot facts handy?

elk
-----------------------------------------------
elk@net2000ke.com
elk@wananchi.com
Elsen L. Karstad, Nairobi Kenya
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-stoves@crest.org>
To: <stoves-approval@crest.org>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 7:03 AM
Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from
[luiza@gurlmail.com]

> >From stoves-owner Sun Nov 19 23:03:41 2000
> Received: from c000.iad.cp.net (c000-h003.c000.iad.cp.net [209.228.6.67])
> by crest.solarhost.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA22271
> for <stoves@crest.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:03:41 -0500
> From: luiza@gurlmail.com
> Received: (cpmta 12208 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2000 22:58:49 -0500
> Date: 19 Nov 2000 22:58:49 -0500
> Message-ID: <20001120035849.12206.cpmta@c000.iad.cp.net>
> X-Sent: 20 Nov 2000 03:58:49 GMT
> Received: from [142.150.3.215] by mail.gurlmail.com with HTTP;
> 19 Nov 2000 22:58:49 EST
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> To: stoves@crest.org
> X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.8.1.1
> Subject: Gas and electric stoves
>
> To whom it may concern,
>
> I am a student at The University of Toronto who is doing a project where
the task is to design an experiment on comparing the efficiency of an
electric and gas stove. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could send
me information to help me in my assignment.
> Thank you
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> --> get your free, private gURLmail account at http://www.gURLmail.com !!
>

From bburt at kingston.net Mon Nov 20 13:57:23 2000
From: bburt at kingston.net (Brian Burt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from [luiza@gurlmail.com]
In-Reply-To: <009b01c052b6$8c2f27c0$e841cac3@pentium333>
Message-ID: <001601c05322$8d3c32e0$0101a8c0@ipc120>

Rocky Mountain Institute has some publications that make some
recommendations about appliances. They do not give direct energy usage for
gas and electric stoves. Rather it is stated in $. The URL for the
publication is; http://www.rmi.org/images/other/E-HEB-Ovens.pdf It suggests
that gas ovens are much more energy efficient than electric ones. They also
note a big difference in pilot lit vs. electronic lit gas stoves, with the
electronic lit ones using less than half the energy of pilot lit.

Brian

> Stovers;
>
> This has been bounced to me in my temporary capacity as list coordinator.
>
> Luiza asks about the comparative efficiency of gas and electric stoves.
> Anybody have the hot facts handy?
>
> elk
> -----------------------------------------------
> elk@net2000ke.com
> elk@wananchi.com
> Elsen L. Karstad, Nairobi Kenya
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <owner-stoves@crest.org>
> To: <stoves-approval@crest.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 7:03 AM
> Subject: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from
> [luiza@gurlmail.com]
>
>
> > >From stoves-owner Sun Nov 19 23:03:41 2000
> > Received: from c000.iad.cp.net (c000-h003.c000.iad.cp.net
> [209.228.6.67])
> > by crest.solarhost.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA22271
> > for <stoves@crest.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2000 23:03:41 -0500
> > From: luiza@gurlmail.com
> > Received: (cpmta 12208 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2000 22:58:49 -0500
> > Date: 19 Nov 2000 22:58:49 -0500
> > Message-ID: <20001120035849.12206.cpmta@c000.iad.cp.net>
> > X-Sent: 20 Nov 2000 03:58:49 GMT
> > Received: from [142.150.3.215] by mail.gurlmail.com with HTTP;
> > 19 Nov 2000 22:58:49 EST
> > Content-Type: text/plain
> > Content-Disposition: inline
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > To: stoves@crest.org
> > X-Mailer: Web Mail 3.8.1.1
> > Subject: Gas and electric stoves
> >
> > To whom it may concern,
> >
> > I am a student at The University of Toronto who is doing a project where
> the task is to design an experiment on comparing the efficiency of an
> electric and gas stove. I would greatly appreciate it if someone
> could send
> me information to help me in my assignment.
> > Thank you
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > --> get your free, private gURLmail account at
http://www.gURLmail.com !!
>

From mchambwera at wwf.org.zw Tue Nov 21 01:33:40 2000
From: mchambwera at wwf.org.zw (mchambwera@wwf.org.zw)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Fw: BOUNCE stoves@crest.org: Non-member submission from [luiza@gurlmail.com]
In-Reply-To: <009b01c052b6$8c2f27c0$e841cac3@pentium333>
Message-ID: <200011210704.JAA13146@wwf.org.zw>

Efficiency of stoves used for common sources of energy

Charcoal stoves: 20-35% efficiency
Firewood stoves: 10-25% efficiency
Kerosene Stoves: 35-50% efficiency
LPG stoves: 45-65% efficiency
Electric stoves: 75-85% efficiency

Source: van der Plas (1995), Burning Charcoal Issues, FPD Energy Note
1 (April 1995), The World Bank Group.

Muyeye
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From dstill at epud.org Tue Nov 21 02:45:15 2000
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: efficiency of stoves
Message-ID: <000401c04690$3729dfe0$342b74d8@default>

Dear Stovers,

It is perhaps just a display of my ignorance but it seems very unlikely to
me that stoves will differ this widely if by efficiency we mean heat
delivered to the pot. If the same pot is used and the heat contacts the
bottom of the pot (without the use of a skirt around the pot) then the
varying differences are the temperature of the heat delivered to the pot,
the power, and differences in radiation and convection. Although important,
I don't see how these variables would account for a fourfold increase in
efficiency. Perhaps the report is concerned with a different definition of
efficiency?

Efficiency, in my limited experience, is mostly determined by the pot.

Best,

Dean Still

Efficiency of stoves used for common sources of energy

Charcoal stoves: 20-35% efficiency
Firewood stoves: 10-25% efficiency
Kerosene Stoves: 35-50% efficiency
LPG stoves: 45-65% efficiency
Electric stoves: 75-85% efficiency

Source: van der Plas (1995), Burning Charcoal Issues, FPD Energy Note
1 (April 1995), The World Bank Group.

From Stumpf at 495-simon.agrartech.uni-hohenheim.de Tue Nov 21 03:54:50 2000
From: Stumpf at 495-simon.agrartech.uni-hohenheim.de (Elmar Stumpf: stumpf@ats.uni-hohenheim.de)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: efficiency of stoves
In-Reply-To: <000401c04690$3729dfe0$342b74d8@default>
Message-ID: <194DF95B5A10@495-simon.agrartech.uni-hohenheim.de>

Dear Stovers:

concerning the discussion about the efficiency of stoves I would like to share
some results of our investigation with you. We did some investigation on the
efficiency of kerosene stoves. For determination of the efficiency we
modified the testing procedure of the Water Boiling Test a bit, since we are
able to do measurements online at our test bench.

Here some of our results heating up water in a cooking pot:

1.) Efficiencies of all stoves depend on the power output. For pressure
kerosene stoves, efficiency decreases while power increases. The change can be
up to 20 %. Efficiency values range between 60 % and 40 % for kerosene stoves
utilizing a rebounding plate. We got efficiencies between 68% and 58 % for a
kerosene stove with a pre-mixed flame.

We also did investigation on a wick stove where efficiency did not change much
with power output ranging around 35 %.

2.) The efficiency - you are very right, Dean - strongly depends on the cooking
pot: on its material as well as on its size. We did measurements regarding the
size of the pot with same material. We found out the bigger the pot (and the
more water is used) the higher the efficiency.

3.) Efficiency (measures at one power output) depends also on the
distance between the flame and the pot and therefore on the design of the
stove. With one cooking stove we had a 55 % efficiency while the pot was placed
right above the flame whereas a 30 % efficiency while the pot was at some 5 cm
above the flame. Efficiency might depend on how the flame can be directed into
the pot.

Maybe someone would like to comment on all this. By the way: does anyone know a
different testing procedure for the efficiency? Maybe something which does not
depend so strongly on the cooking pot?

Best,
Elmar Stumpf

>From: "Dean Still" <dstill@epud.org>
>To: <stoves@crest.org>
>Subject: Re:efficiency of stoves
>Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2000 10:50:48 -0800

>Dear Stovers,
>
>It is perhaps just a display of my ignorance but it seems very unlikely to
>me that stoves will differ this widely if by efficiency we mean heat
>delivered to the pot. If the same pot is used and the heat contacts the
>bottom of the pot (without the use of a skirt around the pot) then the
>varying differences are the temperature of the heat delivered to the pot,
>the power, and differences in radiation and convection. Although important,
>I don't see how these variables would account for a fourfold increase in
>efficiency. Perhaps the report is concerned with a different definition of
>efficiency?
>
>Efficiency, in my limited experience, is mostly determined by the pot.
>
>Best,
>
>Dean Still
>
>
>
>Efficiency of stoves used for common sources of energy
>
>Charcoal stoves: 20-35% efficiency
>Firewood stoves: 10-25% efficiency
>Kerosene Stoves: 35-50% efficiency
>LPG stoves: 45-65% efficiency
>Electric stoves: 75-85% efficiency
>
>Source: van der Plas (1995), Burning Charcoal Issues, FPD Energy Note
>1 (April 1995), The World Bank Group.
>
>
>
>The Stoves List is Sponsored by
>Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
>Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
>http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
>http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
>http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

von:
Dipl.-Ing. Elmar Stumpf, M.Sc./Univ. of Wisc.-Madison
Institute for Agricultural Engineering in the Tropics and Subtropics
Hohenheim University (495)
Garbenstr. 9, 70599 Stuttgart, Germany
Tel.: +49 (0)711 - 459 - 2840
Fax: +49 (0)711 - 459 - 3298
e-mail: stumpf@ats.uni-hohenheim.de

From mchambwera at wwf.org.zw Tue Nov 21 04:07:34 2000
From: mchambwera at wwf.org.zw (mchambwera@wwf.org.zw)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: efficiency of stoves
In-Reply-To: <000401c04690$3729dfe0$342b74d8@default>
Message-ID: <200011210937.LAA13415@wwf.org.zw>

Stovers,

Sorry I did not specify the applicability of information I sent earlier
on efficiency of stoves. The charcoal and firewood stoves mainly
refer to the developing world setting where people cook like on
open fires using for example stones or metal gauzes as stoves. In
such settings, you really have very low efficiencies. And my
understanding of the efficiency of the stove is the amount of heat
produced by a fuel that is actually transmitted to the pot, and the
type of stove determines that to a very large extent. Unfortunately
the efficienct of the pot is something else, depending on the
material making the pot. Here we use combination of metal and
clay pots, and their efficiency is not directly linked to the efficiency
of the stove used.

Muyeye Chambwera

On 4 Nov 00, at 10:50, Dean Still wrote:

Dear Stovers,

Efficiency, in my limited experience, is mostly determined by the pot.

Best,

Dean Still

Efficiency of stoves used for common sources of energy

Charcoal stoves: 20-35% efficiency
Firewood stoves: 10-25% efficiency
Kerosene Stoves: 35-50% efficiency
LPG stoves: 45-65% efficiency
Electric stoves: 75-85% efficiency

Source: van der Plas (1995), Burning Charcoal Issues, FPD Energy Note
1 (April 1995), The World Bank Group.

From dstill at epud.org Tue Nov 21 21:40:43 2000
From: dstill at epud.org (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: efficiency of stoves
Message-ID: <002601c04723$47f77100$262b74d8@default>

Dear Elmar and Kirk,

What, in your opinions, accounts for the big differences in efficiency
between these various stoves?

Is the difference in temperature between the heat source and the pot mostly
responsible?

Is there a big effect from the speed of flue gases contacting the pot?

Why in the world would an electric stove be so very efficient? Is it due to
some radiation effect? The electric stove really has me stumped since
temperatures, I assume, are not all that high and there is no fast air
effect.

This is very interesting... I hope that someone can enlighten me.

Thanks,

Dean

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Sun Nov 26 16:17:49 2000
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Small Sawdust/Woodchip Retort/Kiln
Message-ID: <20001126211123.17064.qmail@web612.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Karee Black and stovers,

Nov.2 Karee wrote questioning,"...how to build a
small retort or kiln for (converting) hardwood sawdust
and chips to charcoal." Webster says a retort is an
airtight vessel used in the destructive distillation
or decomposition of a substance by heat, and a kiln is
a furnace or oven for burning, baking, or drying
something. Though I tend to fudge the definitions a
bit, in general I've tried to build small kilns to
heat small retorts. I like small. Fast to build, low
cost, quick to test. But how small? Tiny? Mini? Micro?
A few ideas and in all cases I've tried to minimize
smoke.
Remove one end of a 7in.x 4in.diam. juice can and
fill with very dry sawdust or chips. Crimp, wire or
otherwise re-attach the the lid so that it seals in
the sawdust but permits gasses to pass out in the gap
between the can and lid. Voila! A retort, sorta.
Make a 3/4 in. high x 4 1/4 in. diam. grate from
1 in. sq. mesh hardware cloth and place it over a 3 or
4 in. diam. hole in a metal plate. The hole is to
supply combustion air under very low pressure. I use
an old WWI surplus blacksmith's forge to push air
through the hole, but a hair drier, junk car heater
fan, house fan, vacuum cleaner, air compressor, leaf
blower, or even a bellows would also work.
Remove both ends of two 7 in. high x 6 in. diam.
coffee cans and crimp or otherwise shape one end of
one can so that they can be securely joined end to
end. Center the cans over the grate and air hole, and
you've got a kiln, kinda.
Place the loaded juice can upside-down on the grate
and then loosely pack vertical strips of very dry wood
into the space between the cans. Add a loose pile of
kindling on top and set fire at the top. Crank up a
bit of blower air to get a good hot burn that works
its way down to the grate. As hot char forms, work it
down between the juice and coffee cans so that flame
surrounds the juice can, strongly heating the wood
inside. The smoke from the now pyrolizing chips or
sawdust is forced downward out of the gap between the
juice can and its lid, into the flame where it is
consumed.
When the flame dies back, stop cranking in air and
let it "simmer." When all smoke has disappeared, block
off all air, sprinkle with water and let it cool. I
get a typical charcoal yield of about 35%. That may be
high because none of the char has oxidized or that
some of the wood may have been only torrified.
All this takes time perhaps an hour or more. Heat
moves rather slowly to the wood in the center of the
juice can. You can speed it up by really cranking up
the combustion air, but at a price. The resulting
intense heat tends to damage the cans and is quite
capable of melting them. Stainless steel should work,
or perhaps make a combustion chamber out of ceramics.
I'm working on it.
There were some surprises. I thought I knew how
char burns, --- with a thin pale blue layer of flame
that surrounds the glowing char, but when I cranked up
the air I got a lot of tall pale blue and yellow flame
that continued until the char had gone to ash. I
learned that there are two ways to get air to a fire.
Pull it with a chimney or push it with a fan. Either
or both work.
Here is another design for a not quite so small
chip-to-char kiln. Remove both ends of a coffee can.
Make a grate 1/2 in. high out of 1/4 in. sq. mesh that
fits snugly inside the bottom end of the can. Load
with dry chips, place over the air supply hole, and
set fire at top. When flame slows and most of the
chips have turned to glowing char, plug the air
supply, and cap the can. It will probably smoke a bit
as the last of the chips turn to char. When the smoke
stops and cool with a water spray. This doesn't work
well with sawdust because the dust tends to pack and
clog the air flow.
Build a bit larger chip kiln by carefully inserting
and securely attaching a 1 in. high grate of 1/4 in.
sg. heavy mesh inside the bottom of a 12 in. high
section of 8 in. diam. stove pipe. Center over the air
hole and carefully line the inside of the pipe with a
1 in. layer of water soaked strips of wood. Fill the
remaining inside space with dry chips and set fire at
top. Burn and cool as before, wetting the wood strips
protecting the stove pipe as needed. It seems foolish
to insulate a wood fire with wood but it works and it
protects the pipe from severe heat damage.
To give even greater protection to the pipe,
additionally line it on the inside with a layer of a
couple of dozen or so very wet pages from some
brightly colored glossy catalog. High gloss paper
contains a considerable amount of white clay which is
left behind when the paper burns and so protects the
metal from direct flame. For very hot burns you might
choose Victoria's Secret.
This last design, with a few modifications, scales
up quite well. I have made successful batches of char
from chips in a 5 gal. pail and charred small branches
and pieces of 1 in. lumber scrap in 30 and 55 gallon
barrels without forced air. It is very important to
provide a good draft at the bottom and stack the wood
in such a way that it permits a good flow of
combustion air to rise up through the fuel. A good
fire can become a roaring fire by loosely stacking an
empty pail or barrel on top to serve as a short
chimney. The trick is to know when to shut it down.
Too soon and you get a lot of smoke and brands. Too
late and you get too much ash and too little char.

With the arrival of cold weather I find that I can
conveniently heat a loosely lidded juice can full of
sawdust or chips in my cast iron wood fired box stove.
By nesting the can on its side in a deep bed of hot
coals you can see and perhaps even hear the jets of
flame produced as smoke from pyrolyzing wood in the
can is expelled and catches fire. The batch may take
half an hour or so to complete but it is easy tell
when it's done and can be removed to cool. Carefully
and completely cool the char by excluding air or
spraying with water or you may find it is converting
itself to a small pile of white ash. While this
technique may take longer, it is easier on the can as
the temperatures reached are generally lower than
those using forced air.
Admittedly these designs are too small to be of any
practical use. Their their value may be only as
demonstrations of concepts that might be scaled up to
a more practical size. These designs could well use
drawings to clarify. I'll make some up if anyone is
interested. Those interested in really large
conversions of sawdust to char should see the work of
Elsen Karstad in his contributions to
stoves@crest.org. His accomplishments are truly
awesome. Hope some of this proves to be of some use to
someone. Respectfully,
Dick Boyt
rdboyt@yahoo.com 20479 Panda, Neosho, MO USA

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From rdboyt at yahoo.com Sun Nov 26 16:22:22 2000
From: rdboyt at yahoo.com (Richard Boyt)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Design Test For Gas/Electric Stove Efficiency
Message-ID: <20001126211558.17353.qmail@web612.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Luiza and Stovers,

On Nov.19 Luiza wrote asking for suggestions on how
to design (and execute?) an experiment comparing the
efficiency of electric and gas stoves. I suggest that
the first step would be to very closely define the
problem. What efficiencies are to be compared? The
costs of operating the stoves? The percentage of
conversions of the fuels to heat? The percentage of
the heat transfered to food in a pot? The time
required to complete the heat transfer?
Also to be considered should be the availability of
facilities for testing and the amount of time needed
to complete the project. You will probably need
scales, thermometers, and test containers that can
handle open flame, red hot electric elements, and if
you include microwave, also those emissions. Pyrex
bowls? You can measure electrical use by timing the
rotation of the disc in your electric meter. You can
estimate gas used by timing the measured filling of a
plastic bag.
Carefully keep extensive notes on all procedures
and results of both the things that work and those
that don't. Welcome and record those serendipitous
surprises that are bound to occur both to your delight
and to your dismay. I look forward to reading your
report to stoves on what you discover. Best wishes for
your success.
Dick.Boyt 20479 Panda Neosho, MO 64850
rdboyt@yahoo.com

From eagraham at lexen.com Sun Nov 26 16:56:02 2000
From: eagraham at lexen.com (Ward Graham)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: looking for the right stove
Message-ID: <NEBBKNEJELJJJEAAKDAEIEPMCCAA.eagraham@lexen.com>

Hi,
Need your help! I am looking for a simple steel stove like this one
http://www.cetsolar.com/ThermContrl.htm but with a grate and access for ash
removal? That way you don’t have to wait for the stove to 100% cool down to
clean it out. This is for a basement stove that I want to be able to burn
large logs and to have enough fuel to burn for about 8 hours.
Any help on finding the right stove will be greatly appreciated!

Also is there a FAQ out there to this list?

Thanks,
Ward

Ward Graham
eagraham@lexen.com

From elk at net2000ke.com Mon Nov 27 13:35:35 2000
From: elk at net2000ke.com (Elsen Karstad)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Bounced request
Message-ID: <000c01c0589f$7e6a1660$ac41cac3@pentium333>

.......sounds like a query one of us might be able to
answer......

elk

-----------------------------------------27/11/00

HiAfter cruising the archives for a few days, I've been
unable to find any info on the following question... and I have emailed
Kuenzel a couple of times as well...Does anyone know where I might
purchase a Kuenzel boiler (combination wood gasification/oil)?Thanks
in advance - I figured if anyone would know about this, it would be the
folks on this list.Best Regards.Robin Seaver<A
href="mailto:rs@aelea.com">rs@aelea.com

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Nov 29 17:59:15 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: Indian Miracles
Message-ID: <71.8b0a6a6.2756e298@cs.com>

Dear Stovers:

I am back from the Pune-ARTI stove conference with good reports. There were
many excellent papers and it was good to meet the various attendents, many of
who write in this forum. We are all looking forward to seeing the final
papers, and many will be published on a web site. I'm sure the returning
delegates will all have stories to tell, but here's my tale of my Two Indian
Miracles.
~~~~~~

The first Thanksgiving festival in the New World was in 1622 when the
Pilgrims at Plymouth Plantaion invited their Indian friends to dinner after a
good harvest. (Half the population died of starvation the previous year. The
Indians taught the pilgrims how to plant corn with a fish in each hill for
fertilizer - a trick one of them had learned in a previous trip to England.)

We all complained that the Pune Stove Conference took place during
Thanksgiving. So, we celebrated our harvest festival, Thanksgiving, at the
President Hotel where most of the Americans were staying. We invited
Doctor Karve, his wife and Priya to the dinner. (Mark Bryden and I stayed at
the Conference Guest house, but went to the President after a day of
shopping.) It was a wonderful (East) Indian Thanksgiving dinner mostly Veg,
but with excellent Tandoori chicken. And there were also three Indians at
our dinner, but this time two of them had PhDs.

When I was in Pune in 1998 with Robb Walt, the Karves put us in the President
hotel. When we left, I forgot to take my blazer out of the wardrobe, and
figured I'd never see it again. After the dinner I asked at the desk if they
had a "lost and found". A man behind me said "I think I know what you are
looking for - a blue blazer." I couldn't believe they kept it. A second
Indian miracle.

So you will hear many reports from the Stove conference. As far as I know,
this was the first international conference on Stoves. Health problems from
wood stoves aflict half the women and children of the world, and I hope
finally we will do something about it.

It's nice to be home and I'm still teaching my body that it is 3 PM here and
to forget that it is 3:30 AM in India.

Cheer, TOM REED
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Wed Nov 29 17:59:48 2000
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:42 2004
Subject: efficiency of stoves
Message-ID: <54.c88e02a.2756e2a4@cs.com>

Dear Dean et al:

The electric stove is quite efficient because the pot comes in direct contact
with the heating element which can be at 900 C. I measured efficiencies on
my wife's stove of 65%.

But the electricity was generatated with an efficiency less than 35%, so
overall electric stove energy efficiency would then be 23%, comparable to
charcoal and wood.

Incidentally, our turbo stove measures 35-35% efficient cooking with
"woodgas".

~~~~~~~~

I spent a lot of time with Mark Bryden at the stove conference in Pune. Hope
to visit you some day.

TOM REED

Efficiency of stoves used for common sources of energy

Charcoal stoves: 20-35% efficiency
Firewood stoves: 10-25% efficiency
Kerosene Stoves: 35-50% efficiency
LPG stoves: 45-65% efficiency
Electric stoves: 75-85% efficiency

Source: van der Plas (1995), Burning Charcoal Issues, FPD Energy Note
1 (April 1995), The World Bank Group.

In a message dated 11/21/00 7:39:58 PM Mountain Standard Time,
dstill@epud.org writes:

<< Dear Elmar and Kirk,

What, in your opinions, accounts for the big differences in efficiency
between these various stoves?

Is the difference in temperature between the heat source and the pot mostly
responsible?

Is there a big effect from the speed of flue gases contacting the pot?

Why in the world would an electric stove be so very efficient? Is it due to
some radiation effect? The electric stove really has me stumped since
temperatures, I assume, are not all that high and there is no fast air
effect.

This is very interesting... I hope that someone can enlighten me.

Thanks,

Dean
>>
The Stoves List is Sponsored by
Pyromid Inc. http://www.pyromid.net
Stoves Webpage, Charcoal, Activated Carbon
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
Other Sponsors, Archive and Information
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/stoves-list-archive/
http://www.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

November 2000 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive