June 2001 Gasification Archive

For more information to help people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions, please see our web site: http://www.bioenergylists.org

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Jun 1 07:52:16 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:53 2004
Subject: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
Message-ID: <26.163a9c46.2848db84@cs.com>

Harry said that the density table would be a LOT more useful if I added a
column on kJ/liter (= kg/liter X kJ/kg). I have adjusted the dry fuel values
to 7% MC (Denver dry). He also suggested putting in coal and oil, and I've
added biodiesel.

Here it is with fuel values and densities from various sources.
~~~~~
BULK & ENERGY DENSITIES OF VARIOUS FUELS

kg/liter        kJ/kg     kJ/liter
Softwood chips ("Denver dry", 7% MCWB)           0.19            20
3.8
Home Depot 1/4" sawdust pellets                        0.68            20
13.6
Birdsong 3/8" peanut shell pellets                        0.65
19.8      12.9
Corn                                                                  0.76
19.1      14.5
Soybeans                                                          0.77
21??     16.2
Coconut shells (broken to 1/4 inch pieces)            0.54            20.5
11.1
Coal (Bituminous)                                               1.1?
32.5       35.7
Biodiesel                                                            0.92
41.2       37.9
Diesel                                                                0.88
45.7       40.2

[From various sources, especially Appendix A of our "Thermal Data for Natural
and Synthetic Fuels" (Gaur and Reed, Dekker, 1998)]

I am amazed that I can't find the energy content of soybeans. I assume they
still contain the oil and will be high. I also can't find bulk densities and
heating values of coals in the same table.

As I mentioned before the Volume Energy Density, VED, (MJ/m3) is at least as
important a fuel value and the Mass energy density, MED, (MJ/tonne), but I
don't find it listed anywhere. There is also the complication of gross or
high heating value vs net or low heating value.

I hope that someone will make a VERY comprehensive table similar to the above
for LOTS of newer modern fuels as well as the traditional ones. (How about
waste vegetable oils? Lignites? Torrefied biomass?)
Meanwhile, I'll put this one up on my wall!

Onward ... TOM REED

Dr. Thomas Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com

In a message dated 5/27/01 6:46:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tombreed@home.com writes:

Dear Biomass Suporters:

I found the excellent article (below) on the current state of pellet
heating stoves in Mother Earth News.
(www.motherearthnews.com/energy/energy176.pellet.shtml). It has many
implications that go far beyond home heat.

When we use the word "fuel", we generally mean a prepared energy source
suitable for delivery and sale for a particular purpose.

Petroleum is an excellent energy source. Petroleum is not a fuel; it must
be refined to give us gasoline, lpg, kerosene etc.

Natural gas at the wellhead is and excellent energy source. It isn't a
fuel; you need to build pipelines at >$1M/mile to deliver it.

Biomass is a renewable energy source that will be around when all the
others are gone. However, it is not a fuel. Wood needs to be cut to size
and dried; other forms (straw, paper, ag residues) need to be densified
(pelletized, briqueted or compressed to logs) or very special equipment
needs to be used for burning.

~~~~~~~
I have been an enthusiast of densification ever since I became interested
in biomass as a renewable energy source and I wrote a report (with Becky
Bryant) and research paper on it in 1978-80.

Densification makes a "fungible" fuel out of a wide variety of energy
sources, sawdust, paper, straw, peanut shells .... The fuel is typically
easily transported, stored and fed into furnaces, gasifiers and stoves.

I just went down in my lab and measured..

BULK DENSITIES OF SOME CHIPS, SEEDS AND PELLETS
DENSITY                                          kg/liter
Softwood chips ("Denver dry", 7% MCWB)           0.19
Home Depot 1/4" sawdust pellets                        0.68
Birdsong 3/8" peanut shell pellets                        0.65
Corn                                                                  0.76
Soybeans                                                          0.77
Coconut shells (broken to 1/4 inch pieces)            0.54

Thus it is seen that pellets and seeds are 3-4 times as dense wood chips
which in turn are
3-4 times denser than loose pellets, straws etc.
~~~~~~~~~
The wood pellet stove is the best thing that could have happened for
converting biomass from an energy source to a real prepared commercial
fuel. The stoves are clean, automatic and efficient and over half a
million are in use for home heating (see below).

As the cost of natural gas and propane go up we will see more and more
pellet (and corn and maybe soybean) stoves sold. They in turn will create
enough demand so that other forms of biomass will also enter the market.

From Reedtb2 at cs.com Fri Jun 1 08:02:33 2001
From: Reedtb2 at cs.com (Reedtb2@cs.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Third world needs and first world realities
Message-ID: <60.f1c60c6.2848db9b@cs.com>

Your points are ALL well taken. Loved your list of developed appliances.
I've added the Crockpot and convection oven, and a price list.....!
$$
1.    gas or electric range                  500
2.    oven for baking                          (in range)
3.    oven for broiling                          "
4.    toaster                                       30
5.    electric skillet                             20
6.    microwave                                  200
7.    outdoor bar-b-que grill                  100
8.    camp stove                                  30
9.    bread maker                                 75
10.    slow cooker                                   ? same as crockpot?
11.    popcorn popper                           20
12.    coffee maker (or water boiler)        20
13.   Crockpot                                      20
14. Convection Oven                           150

TOTAL FOR US HOUSEWIFE-KITCHEN AT LEAST $$$1150. MY WIFE VIVIAN HAS MOST OF
THESE, SO I KNOW! WHAT A MARKETING OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DEVELOPED COUNTRIES -
OR THE CHINESE TO EQUIP THE 3 BILLION PEOPLE IN THE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES WITH
THESE "NECESSITIES".

VIVIAN SAYS THAT THE US IS THE "SHOPPING MALL" FOR CHINA.
~~~~~
We aren't going to convert the developing world to use the developed world
kitchen.

However, they may have to make some changes in their cooking habits.

For instance, they are used to cooking on a fire that has NO turndown. So,
they move the pot farther away or off to one side. If we supply a stove that
can have a lower flame, they must learn to turn down the flame instead.

For instance, they are used to having a very diffuse heat source (like
charcoal ~ 10 watts/cm2 of bed) rather than concentrated heat like a gas
flame ~ 40 watts/cm2 of flame area. So, maybe they need thick aluminum
cookware to diffuse the heat to a larger area for chipatis etc.

Please supply more instances from a better knowledge of less developed
cooking.

In a message dated 5/17/01 8:57:26 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
psanders@ilstu.edu writes:

Stoves,

First, I want to emphatically agree with what Larry wrote:

>(clip)Unless one has actual experience, I believe those of us working in a
>laboratory or shop in the developed world have difficulty fully
comprehending the importance
>of ruggedness and simplicity in introducing technology to the poor in
>developing countries.

Second, A comment was made about people in developing countries needing
more than one means of cooking. That is the reality, not just a desire.

Please note what is in the modern "developed" home in America or anywhere
with modern services and financial resources:
1.    gas or electric range (burners, usually 4) with great control of
temperature range, some with programmable timers to start and stop as
desired
2.    oven for baking
3.    oven for broiling
4.    toaster
5.    electric skillet
6.    microwave
7.    outdoor bar-b-que grill
8.    camp stove
9.    bread maker
10.    slow cooker
11.    popcorn popper
12.    coffee maker (or water boiler)
13.   Crockpot
14. Convection Oven

Gee, I'll just stop at a dozen. You probably know a few more. But you
do
NOT need to send additions to the stovers listserve because we are not
trying to make a comprehensive list.

Instead, my point is that we tend to be discussing "A" stove for the needy
when in reality the people in the developing areas are already using
SEVERAL stoves, some very good and some terrible for the environment and
people's health.

I really like the "rocket" stove, but I also think that gassification (ala
Tom Reed's stove) is very important / has potential. And the discussion
about making briquettes and other "fuels" has been most enlightening.

But putting it into practice in impoverished areas is a different story. I
am in favor of LOCAL poor people (cottage industries) doing the tasks
(often labor intensive) instead of setting up a factory (defined as needing
multiple thousands of dollars to set up) to produce products that must be
sold in order for the factory to survive, but the potential markets are
people noted for having little or NO disposable income, so therefore the
factory is almost doomed from the start.

I go back and forth between America and southern Africa, specifically
northeastern South Africa and southern Mozambique. (Kruger National Park
is in the middle of my area of work.) Situations there include:

A. Almost unlimited sawdust in the SA forestry mills. (and bagasse from
the sugar mills is also plentiful).

B. Totally awesome production of charcoal in MZ. But all the "gasses"
are
lost while making the charcoal.

I go to southern Africa on 1 July for 7 weeks. I am open to proposals. I
do not pretend to have the answers, but I am willing to try.

PS. My field is mapping, especially mapping of poor communities (rural or
urban) using highly enlarged aerial photography (you can see all of the
trails and trees and huts, etc), using local people to use the photo-maps
and to collect the data. (see my web site if you want more info).

What that means is that I am into the locations where the stoves could be
needed. Please note that I am a professor and that I make my living
teaching people how to do things whether they are my American university
students or my students in Africa or the local people in the communities.

I APPRECIATE the science and technology present on the "stovers"
listserve. But I am unsure about how it gets transferred to the people
who need it in formats that they can actually obtain and use, with
sufficient benefits so that they will want to continue to use it.

Note: I am quite new to the stovers list, so I am not aware of how many
times this topic has been hashed over. Sorry if I am off track. (and I
hope my message did not get too long; when I was in Mozambique we called
the long messages with attachments "friend-losers".)

Paul

From jmorton at climateservices.com Fri Jun 1 11:42:19 2001
From: jmorton at climateservices.com (Jamie Morton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and newfuels...
Message-ID: <sb17556d.052@climateservices.com>

Tom et al

I have the figures you need for coals, but specific to Australian Black (anthracite) and Brown (lignite) coals. I had similar trouble finding fuel propery details, for coals best thing is just to ring some utilities and get the details from the horses mouth (bulk densities are particvualrly hard to find in literature). Alternatively I am sure there is a coal publication in the US that would list properties in detail (there is in Australia). Anyway yI hope you find the attached table useful.

Cheers

Jamie Morton

Trexler and Associates, Inc
516 SE Morrison St, Suite 1100
Portland, Oregon
97214 USA
Ph: 503 231 2727
Fax: 503 231 2728
www.climateservices.com

>>> <Reedtb2@cs.com> 06/01/01 04:50AM >>>
Dear All:

[From various sources, especially Appendix A of our "Thermal Data for Natural
and Synthetic Fuels" (Gaur and Reed, Dekker, 1998)]

I am amazed that I can't find the energy content of soybeans. I assume they
still contain the oil and will be high. I also can't find bulk densities and
heating values of coals in the same table.

Onward ... TOM REED

Dr. Thomas Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com

In a message dated 5/27/01 6:46:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tombreed@home.com writes:

> Dear Biomass Suporters:
>
> I found the excellent article (below) on the current state of pellet
> heating stoves in Mother Earth News. <A HREF="http://www.motherearthnews.com/energy/energy176.pellet.shtml">
> (www.motherearthnews.com/energy/energy176.pellet.shtml</A>). It has many
> implications that go far beyond home heat.
>
> When we use the word "fuel", we generally mean a prepared energy source
> suitable for delivery and sale for a particular purpose.
>
> Petroleum is an excellent energy source. Petroleum is not a fuel; it must
> be refined to give us gasoline, lpg, kerosene etc.
>
> Natural gas at the wellhead is and excellent energy source. It isn't a
> fuel; you need to build pipelines at >$1M/mile to deliver it.
>
> Biomass is a renewable energy source that will be around when all the
> others are gone. However, it is not a fuel. Wood needs to be cut to size
> and dried; other forms (straw, paper, ag residues) need to be densified
> (pelletized, briqueted or compressed to logs) or very special equipment
> needs to be used for burning.
>
> ~~~~~~~
> I have been an enthusiast of densification ever since I became interested
> in biomass as a renewable energy source and I wrote a report (with Becky
> Bryant) and research paper on it in 1978-80.
>
> Densification makes a "fungible" fuel out of a wide variety of energy
> sources, sawdust, paper, straw, peanut shells .... The fuel is typically
> easily transported, stored and fed into furnaces, gasifiers and stoves.
>
> I just went down in my lab and measured..
>
> BULK DENSITIES OF SOME CHIPS, SEEDS AND PELLETS
> DENSITY kg/liter
> Softwood chips ("Denver dry", 7% MCWB) 0.19
> Home Depot 1/4" sawdust pellets 0.68
> Birdsong 3/8" peanut shell pellets 0.65
> Corn 0.76
> Soybeans 0.77
> Coconut shells (broken to 1/4 inch pieces) 0.54
>
> Thus it is seen that pellets and seeds are 3-4 times as dense wood chips
> which in turn are
> 3-4 times denser than loose pellets, straws etc.
> ~~~~~~~~~
> The wood pellet stove is the best thing that could have happened for
> converting biomass from an energy source to a real prepared commercial
> fuel. The stoves are clean, automatic and efficient and over half a
> million are in use for home heating (see below).
>
> As the cost of natural gas and propane go up we will see more and more
> pellet (and corn and maybe soybean) stoves sold. They in turn will create
> enough demand so that other forms of biomass will also enter the market.
>
> From the use viewpoint pellets and densified fuels also make other
> applications more practical. I would not consider using woodchips in my
> gasifiers or stoves if I could count on a supply of pellets. The WWII
> gasifiers that had to be filled every 2-3 hours of driving could have been
> filled once a day with densified fuels.
>
> So, I hope densification in all its forms is here to stay and will make
> biomass in all its forms into a very competitive fuel.
>
> Onward to a sustainable fuel era...
>
> TOM REED
>
> Dr. Thomas Reed
> The Biomass Energy Foundation
> 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
> 303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com
>

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Bioenergy List Moderator:
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From jmorton at climateservices.com Fri Jun 1 11:49:52 2001
From: jmorton at climateservices.com (Jamie Morton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and newfuels...
Message-ID: <sb17572f.060@climateservices.com>

Tom et al

Sorry, forgot attachment mentioned in last message - Jamie Morton

>>> <Reedtb2@cs.com> 06/01/01 04:50AM >>>
Dear All:

[From various sources, especially Appendix A of our "Thermal Data for Natural
and Synthetic Fuels" (Gaur and Reed, Dekker, 1998)]

I am amazed that I can't find the energy content of soybeans. I assume they
still contain the oil and will be high. I also can't find bulk densities and
heating values of coals in the same table.

Onward ... TOM REED

Dr. Thomas Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com

In a message dated 5/27/01 6:46:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tombreed@home.com writes:

fuelProps_forbiocrest.xls

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From A.Weststeijn at epz.nl Fri Jun 1 17:38:17 2001
From: A.Weststeijn at epz.nl (Weststeijn A)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
Message-ID: <E1780666C205D211B6740008C728DBFE9F5020@sp0016.epz.nl>

Dear Tom,

Good point. Important subject.
We had a thread on the subject last February, called "Optimizing Fuel Volume
Density..."
Below I quote some numbers I sent to the List last February 10th.

Two observations, if I may:

1.My HV's for fuel are listed as LHV's.
I notice that the HV for coal you recently gave in the table looks very high
(to me at least), but you might use HHV?
In that case, it might be instrumental in the communications to make a
column for both LHV and HHV.
This LHV-HHV business always causes confusion, and it separates the
different continents as well, with I believe North-America being
historically more HHV-oriented and Europe fully LHV-oriented.
Sorry, list members, I don't even know how the other continents usually
apply HV! That in itself might be prove that two columns are no luxury.

2. About the density units
You use in your table kg/liter, kJ/kg, kJ/liter

Personally I would prefer to use:
-specific weight in kg/m3
-loose bulk density in kg/m3
-LHV and HHV in GJ/ton (or MJ/kg, same value)
-volumetric (energy) density in GJ/m3

I.e. the numbers and units as we metric-born dumbo's are used to in
business, and having the orders of magnitude sounding familiar.
But then, this is just my preference.
Others?

best regards,
Andries Weststeijn

QUOTE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
4. NUMERICAL COMPARION of FUEL DATA (in metric)

COAL
loose bulk density = 850 kg/m3 (in pile)
energy density LHV= 24 MJ/kg = 24 GJ/ton
volumetric density = 850 kg/m3*24 MJ/kg = 20400 MJ/m3 = 20.4 GJ/m3

LOOSE DRY SAWDUST
loose bulk density = 200 kg/m3
energy density LHV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
volumetric density =200 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg = 3600 MJ/m3 = 3.6 GJ/m3

REGULAR WOOD PELLETS
"solid" density = 1.3 g/cc
"solid" density = 1300 kg/m3
in pile: void coefficient = 50%
loose bulk density = 650 kg/m3
energy density LHV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
volumetric density =650 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg = 11700 MJ/m3 = 11.7 GJ/m3

THERMALLY UPGRADED WOOD PELLETS
"solid" density = 1.3 g/cc = 1300 kg/m3
in pile: void coefficient = 50%
loose bulk density = 650 kg/m3
energy density LHV= 22 MJ/kg (assume)
volumetric density =650 kg/m3*22 MJ/kg = 14300 MJ/m3 = 14.3 GJ/m3

Comparison:
coal = ..................................... 20.4 GJ/m3
loose dry sawdust = .............. 3.6 GJ/m3 or 18% of coal
regular wood pellets = ........ 11.7 GJ/m3 or 57% of coal
therm.upgraded pellets =......14.3 GJ/m3 or 70% of coal

Relative volumetric energy density:
coal = ..................................... 1.00
loose dry sawdust = .............. 0.18
regular wood pellets = .......... 0.57
therm.upgraded pellets =...... 0.70

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Bioenergy List Moderator:
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From ali at kaupp.net Sat Jun 2 00:13:01 2001
From: ali at kaupp.net (Albrecht Kaupp)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: HHV and LHV RE: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
In-Reply-To: <E1780666C205D211B6740008C728DBFE9F5020@sp0016.epz.nl>
Message-ID: <NDBBJGKCDMKFPFGODDJPEEJLCEAA.ali@kaupp.net>

Well, already Shakespear's Hamlet mused "To BE or not to BE that is the
question".
He did not say "To BEE or not to BEE is out of question".

In other words BEE = Buy Energy Efficient (Equipment) and BEE = Be Energy
Efficient (in its Operation) is the trick.
I refer to this as the (BEE)^2 problem of human failure to make correct
decisions when it comes to energy or biomass. Sometimes I get even scared if
I look at the fuel cycle energy input and wonder: "Is it still positive."

And of course get the right efficiency definition, whatever that means.

The Germans still use LHV, that's why Germany has boilers violating the
second law of thermodynamics on paper, showing 102.7% thermal efficiency,
since stackgas temperature is at 50 C . The Japanese and Taiwanese also use
LHV since it is a good argument to beat the American competition when it
comes to boiler sales . The Britsh use HHV. Educated buyers usually demand
the efficiency be quoted on LHV and HHV basis. The whole exercise is
sometimes academic since the efficencies are based on the design fuel, that
seldom enters coal or biomass fueled boilers, anyway. Buyers have to settle
with an operational efficiency that may be well below the design efficiency.
The big question in the field is to what extent it is worthwile to buy a
super efficient boiler if conditions to run it are lousy.

Albrecht Kaupp
Senior Advisor
Indo-German Energy Efficiency and Environment Project, IGEEP
21 Jor Bagh, New Delhi 110 003, India
Tel +91-11-4603832-6 or +91-11-6864867 to 68
Fax +91-11-4603831 or +1-801-340-7905 (USA)
email: ali@kaupp.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Weststeijn A [mailto:A.Weststeijn@epz.nl]
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 3:07 AM
To: Stoves@crest.org; tombreed@home.com; rwalt@gocpc.com;
Artsolar@aol.com; 'Reedtb2@cs.com'
Cc: Gasification@crest.org; bioenergy@crest.org
Subject: RE: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new
fuels...

Dear Tom,

Good point. Important subject.
We had a thread on the subject last February, called "Optimizing Fuel Volume
Density..."
Below I quote some numbers I sent to the List last February 10th.

Two observations, if I may:

2. About the density units
You use in your table kg/liter, kJ/kg, kJ/liter

Personally I would prefer to use:
-specific weight in kg/m3
-loose bulk density in kg/m3
-LHV and HHV in GJ/ton (or MJ/kg, same value)
-volumetric (energy) density in GJ/m3

I.e. the numbers and units as we metric-born dumbo's are used to in
business, and having the orders of magnitude sounding familiar.
But then, this is just my preference.
Others?

best regards,
Andries Weststeijn

QUOTE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
4. NUMERICAL COMPARION of FUEL DATA (in metric)

COAL
loose bulk density = 850 kg/m3 (in pile)
energy density LHV= 24 MJ/kg = 24 GJ/ton
volumetric density = 850 kg/m3*24 MJ/kg = 20400 MJ/m3 = 20.4 GJ/m3

LOOSE DRY SAWDUST
loose bulk density = 200 kg/m3
energy density LHV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
volumetric density =200 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg = 3600 MJ/m3 = 3.6 GJ/m3

-
Bioenergy List Archives:
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Bioenergy List Moderator:
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-
Bioenergy List Archives:
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Bioenergy List Moderator:
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From luizmagri at yahoo.com Sat Jun 2 08:36:19 2001
From: luizmagri at yahoo.com (Luiz Alberto Magri)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: GAS-L: HHV and LHV RE: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
In-Reply-To: <NDBBJGKCDMKFPFGODDJPEEJLCEAA.ali@kaupp.net>
Message-ID: <20010602123505.22060.qmail@web11706.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Albrecht Kaupp <ali@kaupp.net> wrote:
> The Germans still use LHV, that's why Germany has
> boilers violating the
> second law of thermodynamics on paper, showing
> 102.7% thermal efficiency,
> since stackgas temperature is at 50 C . The Japanese
> and Taiwanese also use
> LHV since it is a good argument to beat the American
> competition when it
> comes to boiler sales . The Britsh use HHV.

Dear Albrecht,

I could not agree with the above. At least we can note
that thermal efficiency is a matter of first law, not
second law. But what really concerns me is that I
would like to keep using LHV (as I am used to since a
long time) when I ask for fuel properties from my
supplier. The latent portion of HHV will be used only
when I have steam condensation as a process downstream
my stack. For the general usage, this is not true. I
would be very scared with the possibility of
purchasing a very high HHV content fuel just to
discover later on that the moisture content is very
high as well.

Sincerely yours,

Luiz Magri
Rio de Janeiro

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From joacim at ymex.net Sat Jun 2 14:39:24 2001
From: joacim at ymex.net (Joacim Persson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: GAS-L: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and newfuels...
In-Reply-To: <26.163a9c46.2848db84@cs.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10106021927390.5357-100000@localhost>

On Fri, 1 Jun 2001 Reedtb2@cs.com wrote:

> Dear All:
>
> Harry said that the density table would be a LOT more useful if I added a
> column on kJ/liter (= kg/liter X kJ/kg). I have adjusted the dry fuel values
> to 7% MC (Denver dry). He also suggested putting in coal and oil, and I've
> added biodiesel.
>
> Here it is with fuel values and densities from various sources.
> ~~~~~
> BULK & ENERGY DENSITIES OF VARIOUS FUELS
>
> kg/liter kJ/kg kJ/liter

Ehum... That should be MJ, rather than kJ, obviously.
(Or it would take a full car tank of diesel for boiling a kettle of
water dry.)

I use 18 MJ/kg for wood myself, and 36 MJ/litre for petrol. (18 is half of
36, easy to remember.)

Joacim
-
main(){printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
-- David Korn

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www.webpan.com/BEF

From tombreed at home.com Sun Jun 3 08:49:15 2001
From: tombreed at home.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...
In-Reply-To: <E1780666C205D211B6740008C728DBFE9F5020@sp0016.epz.nl>
Message-ID: <004e01c0ec26$1a6df4e0$18e5b618@whtrdg1.co.home.com>

Dear Andreis et al:

Agree with ALL your points. Actually, it was some of Andreis's remarks on
the last thread that made me accutely aware of the importance of VOLUME
ENERGY DENSITY, particularly for biomass which is not usually weight limited
in shipping.

I am rapidly becoming metricized, but will never catch up with those born to
it.

Since Andreis started this ball rolling, I hope he will do a more formal
table of typical LHV and HHV volume and mass energy densities for all of us
to pin on our study walls or laminate.

Thanks, TOM REED

Dr. Thomas Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Weststeijn A" <A.Weststeijn@epz.nl>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 3:36 PM
Subject: RE: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and new fuels...

> Dear Tom,
>
> Good point. Important subject.
> We had a thread on the subject last February, called "Optimizing Fuel
Volume
> Density..."
> Below I quote some numbers I sent to the List last February 10th.
>
> Two observations, if I may:
>
> 1.My HV's for fuel are listed as LHV's.
> I notice that the HV for coal you recently gave in the table looks very
high
> (to me at least), but you might use HHV?
> In that case, it might be instrumental in the communications to make a
> column for both LHV and HHV.
> This LHV-HHV business always causes confusion, and it separates the
> different continents as well, with I believe North-America being
> historically more HHV-oriented and Europe fully LHV-oriented.
> Sorry, list members, I don't even know how the other continents usually
> apply HV! That in itself might be prove that two columns are no luxury.
>
> 2. About the density units
> You use in your table kg/liter, kJ/kg, kJ/liter
>
> Personally I would prefer to use:
> -specific weight in kg/m3
> -loose bulk density in kg/m3
> -LHV and HHV in GJ/ton (or MJ/kg, same value)
> -volumetric (energy) density in GJ/m3
>
> I.e. the numbers and units as we metric-born dumbo's are used to in
> business, and having the orders of magnitude sounding familiar.
> But then, this is just my preference.
> Others?
>
> best regards,
> Andries Weststeijn
>
> QUOTE
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----
> 4. NUMERICAL COMPARION of FUEL DATA (in metric)
>
> COAL
> loose bulk density = 850 kg/m3 (in pile)
> energy density LHV= 24 MJ/kg = 24 GJ/ton
> volumetric density = 850 kg/m3*24 MJ/kg = 20400 MJ/m3 = 20.4 GJ/m3
>
> LOOSE DRY SAWDUST
> loose bulk density = 200 kg/m3
> energy density LHV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
> volumetric density =200 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg = 3600 MJ/m3 = 3.6 GJ/m3
>
> REGULAR WOOD PELLETS
> "solid" density = 1.3 g/cc
> "solid" density = 1300 kg/m3
> in pile: void coefficient = 50%
> loose bulk density = 650 kg/m3
> energy density LHV= 18 MJ/kg (assume dry)
> volumetric density =650 kg/m3*18 MJ/kg = 11700 MJ/m3 = 11.7 GJ/m3
>
> THERMALLY UPGRADED WOOD PELLETS
> "solid" density = 1.3 g/cc = 1300 kg/m3
> in pile: void coefficient = 50%
> loose bulk density = 650 kg/m3
> energy density LHV= 22 MJ/kg (assume)
> volumetric density =650 kg/m3*22 MJ/kg = 14300 MJ/m3 = 14.3 GJ/m3
>
> Comparison:
> coal = ..................................... 20.4 GJ/m3
> loose dry sawdust = .............. 3.6 GJ/m3 or 18% of coal
> regular wood pellets = ........ 11.7 GJ/m3 or 57% of coal
> therm.upgraded pellets =......14.3 GJ/m3 or 70% of coal
>
> Relative volumetric energy density:
> coal = ..................................... 1.00
> loose dry sawdust = .............. 0.18
> regular wood pellets = .......... 0.57
> therm.upgraded pellets =...... 0.70
>
>

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From tombreed at home.com Sun Jun 3 09:59:22 2001
From: tombreed at home.com (Thomas Reed)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and newfuels...
In-Reply-To: <sb17572f.063@climateservices.com>
Message-ID: <00be01c0ec2f$980ed1e0$18e5b618@whtrdg1.co.home.com>

Dear Jamie Morton, et al:

Thanks so much for sending your expanded Excel table of fuel properties
including VOLUME ENERGY DENSITIES. I have downloaded it to Excel and
printed it to be be laminated (at Kinko, or using my lamination sheets) to
put in my important document pile. It gives a good overview of ALL energy
sources and focuses on the weakness of biomass in both Mass and Volume
energy density. (Much of this is fixed by densification.

I made one minor change that I put in italics. Torrefication of wood
INCREASES the MASS energy density, but DECREASES the volume energy density.
I assumed 20% weight loss of "forest dry" chips and calculated the VOLUME
energy density of the TW made from woodhips would decrease from 6.8 Gj/m3 to
6.5 Gj/m3, (a 4%% decrease), even though the MAS energy density increases
from 17Mj/kg to 21.5 Mj/kg, (a 26% increase).

I had suggested in a previous letter to Andreis that we all needed to
collaborate on a table of this nature. There are many blanks in this table.
I hope we will get informed suggestions for other fuels to be added. I'll
keep your (our) Xcel table handy to make additions as they come in, but I
hope you will republish your table officially when the mail dies down.

Thanks again, TOM REED

Dr. Thomas Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Morton" <jmorton@climateservices.com>
To: <Artsolar@aol.com>; <Stoves@crest.org>; <Reedtb2@cs.com>;
<rwalt@gocpc.com>; <tombreed@home.com>
Cc: <bioenergy@crest.org>; <Gasification@crest.org>
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Volume and Mass Energy Densities of some old and newfuels...

Tom et al

Sorry, forgot attachment mentioned in last message - Jamie Morton

>>> <Reedtb2@cs.com> 06/01/01 04:50AM >>>
Dear All:

Harry said that the density table would be a LOT more useful if I added a
column on kJ/liter (= kg/liter X kJ/kg). I have adjusted the dry fuel
values
to 7% MC (Denver dry). He also suggested putting in coal and oil, and I've
added biodiesel.

Here it is with fuel values and densities from various sources.
~~~~~
BULK & ENERGY DENSITIES OF VARIOUS FUELS

kg/liter kJ/kg kJ/liter
Softwood chips ("Denver dry", 7% MCWB) 0.19 20
3.8
Home Depot 1/4" sawdust pellets 0.68 20
13.6
Birdsong 3/8" peanut shell pellets 0.65
19.8 12.9
Corn 0.76
19.1 14.5
Soybeans 0.77
21?? 16.2
Coconut shells (broken to 1/4 inch pieces) 0.54 20.5
11.1
Coal (Bituminous) 1.1?
32.5 35.7
Biodiesel 0.92
41.2 37.9
Diesel 0.88
45.7 40.2

[From various sources, especially Appendix A of our "Thermal Data for
Natural
and Synthetic Fuels" (Gaur and Reed, Dekker, 1998)]

I am amazed that I can't find the energy content of soybeans. I assume they
still contain the oil and will be high. I also can't find bulk densities
and
heating values of coals in the same table.

As I mentioned before the Volume Energy Density, VED, (MJ/m3) is at least
as
important a fuel value and the Mass energy density, MED, (MJ/tonne), but I
don't find it listed anywhere. There is also the complication of gross or
high heating value vs net or low heating value.

I hope that someone will make a VERY comprehensive table similar to the
above
for LOTS of newer modern fuels as well as the traditional ones. (How about
waste vegetable oils? Lignites? Torrefied biomass?)
Meanwhile, I'll put this one up on my wall!

Onward ... TOM REED

Dr. Thomas Reed
The Biomass Energy Foundation
1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com

In a message dated 5/27/01 6:46:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
tombreed@home.com writes:

> Dear Biomass Suporters:
>
> I found the excellent article (below) on the current state of pellet
> heating stoves in Mother Earth News. <A
HREF="http://www.motherearthnews.com/energy/energy176.pellet.shtml">
> (www.motherearthnews.com/energy/energy176.pellet.shtml</A>). It has many
> implications that go far beyond home heat.
>
> When we use the word "fuel", we generally mean a prepared energy source
> suitable for delivery and sale for a particular purpose.
>
> Petroleum is an excellent energy source. Petroleum is not a fuel; it must
> be refined to give us gasoline, lpg, kerosene etc.
>
> Natural gas at the wellhead is and excellent energy source. It isn't a
> fuel; you need to build pipelines at >$1M/mile to deliver it.
>
> Biomass is a renewable energy source that will be around when all the
> others are gone. However, it is not a fuel. Wood needs to be cut to size
> and dried; other forms (straw, paper, ag residues) need to be densified
> (pelletized, briqueted or compressed to logs) or very special equipment
> needs to be used for burning.
>
> ~~~~~~~
> I have been an enthusiast of densification ever since I became interested
> in biomass as a renewable energy source and I wrote a report (with Becky
> Bryant) and research paper on it in 1978-80.
>
> Densification makes a "fungible" fuel out of a wide variety of energy
> sources, sawdust, paper, straw, peanut shells .... The fuel is typically
> easily transported, stored and fed into furnaces, gasifiers and stoves.
>
> I just went down in my lab and measured..
>
> BULK DENSITIES OF SOME CHIPS, SEEDS AND
PELLETS
> DENSITY kg/liter
> Softwood chips ("Denver dry", 7% MCWB) 0.19
> Home Depot 1/4" sawdust pellets 0.68
> Birdsong 3/8" peanut shell pellets 0.65
> Corn 0.76
> Soybeans 0.77
> Coconut shells (broken to 1/4 inch pieces) 0.54
>
> Thus it is seen that pellets and seeds are 3-4 times as dense wood chips
> which in turn are
> 3-4 times denser than loose pellets, straws etc.
> ~~~~~~~~~
> The wood pellet stove is the best thing that could have happened for
> converting biomass from an energy source to a real prepared commercial
> fuel. The stoves are clean, automatic and efficient and over half a
> million are in use for home heating (see below).
>
> As the cost of natural gas and propane go up we will see more and more
> pellet (and corn and maybe soybean) stoves sold. They in turn will create
> enough demand so that other forms of biomass will also enter the market.
>
> From the use viewpoint pellets and densified fuels also make other
> applications more practical. I would not consider using woodchips in my
> gasifiers or stoves if I could count on a supply of pellets. The WWII
> gasifiers that had to be filled every 2-3 hours of driving could have been
> filled once a day with densified fuels.
>
> So, I hope densification in all its forms is here to stay and will make
> biomass in all its forms into a very competitive fuel.
>
> Onward to a sustainable fuel era...
>
> TOM REED
>
> Dr. Thomas Reed
> The Biomass Energy Foundation
> 1810 Smith Rd., Golden, CO 80401
> 303 278 0558; tombreed@home.com
>

Fuel Properties-Jamie Morton.xls

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From dstill at epud.net Sat Jun 16 13:20:15 2001
From: dstill at epud.net (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: History of the Rocket stoves
Message-ID: <001101c0f651$4d154f80$22adefd8@default>

Dear friends,

Liz Bates suggested that I send this to the list. It was in an email I sent
her and describes the history of the Rocket stove and the recent plancha
stoves that use Rocket design principles.

The Rocket was invented in 1980 by Larry Winiarski. Starting in '86 there
were
something like 5,000 built in Guatemala City. This model was a cement body
with a ceramic liner and pumice/cement around the Rocket elbow. The Rocket
has been
built in Tonga, various places in Africa, a factory made them in Nairobi. A
couple thousand Rockets were built in the Mgunga refugee camp in Zaire, made
by refugees from the tin canisters that held food. The Rocket has been
disseminated in Bolivia, (1,000 stoves?) by Sobre La Roca, the trash version
made from tin cans was a hit with fishermen in Baja California, Mexico,
HELPS in Guatemala uses a big Rocket to boil corn for tortillas, etc.

We knew that the Rocket was "a good stove" since it smoked less than other
stoves without chimneys. Baldwin's sheet metal skirt around the stove, used
by VITA, and Micuta and Haas had the heat transfer tricks down, adding
Larry's Rocket elbow increases combustion efficiency (less smoke). We've
been
experimenting with the stove for a long time and have learned from
the projects that used the design. Now that we have the baldosa, a floor
tile that makes a good
combustion chamber and the new homemade
insulative ceramic material- I like to call it Insulative Earth- we can get
away from using thick metal for the elbow, which makes the stove cheaper,
faster to heat up and more durable.

Trees, Water and People has been hiring Aprovecho consultants to assist them
in their stove projects in Central America. 400 Aprovecho designed plancha
stoves
were built in Suyapa, Honduras, 300 in
Choluteca, 500 in Tegucigalpa, 600 in Marcala, Prolena has built 150. 200
were built in Estili, Nicaragua, maybe 1000 EcoStoves have been built so
far,
we hope that more will come soon. 500 stoves are funded in El Coco, El
Salvador. HELPS International has spent a year testing their version of the
Rocket type plancha in Santa Avelina, Guatemala. A group of local women have
just passed the latest version of the stove as developed to their liking.
HELPS
intends to widely distribute the stove in Guatemala.

I don't know how long the Insulative Earth ceramic will last in the stoves.
It has been
tested now for almost 8 months and is going strong. The baldosa floor tile
has been in
the HELPS stove for 4 months or so and hasn't cracked. The Nueva
Esperansa ( a women's co-op in Honduras) ceramic stove parts are now at a
year and half in the Honduran stoves. So
in answer to the question about the stage of development of the stoves I'd
say the following:

Many people who actually did experiments on stoves (Baldwin is my hero)
realized a while ago how to get closer to making good cooking stoves. Any
engineer looking at stoves should know that we want the heat to get into the
food not into the body of the stove. So we place insulation not mass near
the heat.
Using small gaps between pot and skirt is known as an effective method to
increase heat transfer. Larry's major invention was the Rocket elbow which
raises
combustion temps. and burns up smoke. Putting the Rocket elbow into the VITA
stove or most of Hass/Micuta's stoves makes a Rocket stove. So the design
part of
the stove is commonly accepted, I would say, by a lot of stove engineers as
efficient.

How to build such a stove from vernacular materials is the other part of
making a good AT stove. Now that we've developed and found inexpensive,
vernacular refractory materials that can withstand higher combustion
temperatures, I'd say that the design has come much closer to completion. My
job as a researcher is to make the stoves better and better but with all of
these stoves in use we are learning faster. I am very happy that the group
of indigenous women from Santa Avelina (HELPS) like the stoves, using the
plancha
inside for daily cooking and the big Rocket outside for boiling vats of
corn. (The Rocket pot boiler is much more fuel efficient than the plancha
stove for this task.)

The last three years of work on plancha stoves with chimneys is pretty
straight
forward. Basically Larry just applied some simple and thoroughly normal
engineering to stoves in use in Central America that 1.) let the heat into
the mass, diverting it from the pot and 2.) had big gaps around the pots so
the heat wasn't effectively forced into the pots and 3.) did not encourage
very clean burning. The improved stove now looks the same but uses less
wood and
sends less smoke into the street.

The recent advance is the development of ceramic materials that are
insulative and refractory, that last longer than thick metal Rocket elbows
which made for slower response times. I hope that "Insulative Earth" will be
tried in the Jiko, as a skirt around the open fire, etc. We can show folks
what truly insulative materials do, replacing the mass, usually clay, that
people wrongly
thought was doing the job of insulation. Mass and insulation are two
different things, you can't replace one with the other without making
mistakes. This error is common, and most obvious when you test stoves.

Best,

Dean Still
Aprovecho Research Center

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For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From terran1 at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 17 11:05:45 2001
From: terran1 at bellsouth.net (Terran Trading)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: message
Message-ID: <02d601c0f73e$43a82560$1fd14dd8@compaqcomputer>

HAPPY FATHERS
DAY !!!!!!!

MAY YOUR DAY BE
AS GOOD AS YOU WISH IT TO BE.
<FONT face="Calligraph421 BT" color=#ff0000
size=5>
Best wishes to
all Dads at Stoves, Regina

From dstill at epud.net Tue Jun 19 01:59:40 2001
From: dstill at epud.net (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Fw: Improved Griddle Stoves & NPR
Message-ID: <003301c0f6e9$2ffb8700$41adefd8@default>

>Hi Friends>

"Living on Earth"did a program on the Justa
>stoves in Honduras that aired on National Public Radio this weekend.
>You can still hear the program this week by going to the Living on Earth
>website www.loe.org .They have some pictures of the stoves, etc.

Just coincidentally it could be considered the audio-visual part of the
written history of the Rocket stove.

Best,

Dean Still
Aprovecho

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Stoves List Archives and Website:
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For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
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From VHarris001 at aol.com Sun Jun 24 16:21:57 2001
From: VHarris001 at aol.com (VHarris001@aol.com)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: NIST Guide to SI
Message-ID: <108.1b16441.2867a579@aol.com>

Hope some of you will find this guide informative and useful.

NIST Guide for the Use of the International System of Units (SI)

http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.html

Vernon Harris

From jovick at island.net Tue Jun 26 17:45:05 2001
From: jovick at island.net (John Flottvik)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Bounced
Message-ID: <001001c0fe70$17cbd340$6fb8fea9@computer>

June 26, 2001

Dear Stoves

I'm not sure why I have not got any mail from
Stoves, and why messages has bounced. I assumed you cut me from the mailing
list.

Regards
John Flottvik

From tedclayton at tenforward.com Tue Jun 26 20:08:38 2001
From: tedclayton at tenforward.com (Ted Clayton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:54 2004
Subject: Bounced
In-Reply-To: <001001c0fe70$17cbd340$6fb8fea9@computer>
Message-ID: <019b01c0fe9c$8fc3c8e0$0a85a141@tedscomputer>

John & Stovers;

I, too, received a rather wierd message from the
Stoves mailing program (not from a person). And, I too have seen no
Stoves traffic recently. The message alarmed me, because it seemed to
imply that I am an "abuser"; happily, this turned out to be an incorrect
interpretation.

Investigations with, and by, my ISP show
that it is Crest.org, and/or Crest.Solarhost.com that have gotten into trouble
because someone has distributed Spam from their mail-servers.

There exists an organization that keeps track of
spamming websites, and ISPs use a list they distribute, to filter or block
messages originating from know spam sites. The likely reason why you are
not getting e-mail from Stoves, is because your ISP is 'protecting' you.
This is a good thing, as a rule. The watchdog organization is:
<A
href="http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16">http://www.mail-abuse.org

It did not appear to a problem for my ISP to get
Crest.org off the spammers list, and they tell me that affairs should return to
normal, at least from their end. Crest.org may have to do a little
scrambling.

I have the citation from Mail-Abuse.org for which
Crest got into trouble. It appears to be an isolated incident, and not at
all a bad reflection upon them in general.
<A
href="http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16">http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16

I debated with myself, whether to send this reply
to only John Flottvik, or to the Stovers in general. But I've
heard nothing from the Stoves owner, or from Crest, so have decided to
distribute this information for others who may also be confused.

I have 'lurked' happily on the Stoves list, and
was disappointed that it seemed to 'fall apart'. Let's encourage the
owners and distributors of the list to continue the project.

Hope the list recovers soon!

Ted Clayton
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
John Flottvik

To: <A href="mailto:stoves@crest.org"
title=stoves@crest.org>stoves@crest.org
Cc: <A
href="mailto:stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com"
title=stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com>stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:44
AM
Subject: Bounced

June 26, 2001

Dear Stoves

I'm not sure why I have not got any mail from
Stoves, and why messages has bounced. I assumed you cut me from the mailing
list.

Regards
John
Flottvik

From woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru Wed Jun 27 08:18:41 2001
From: woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru (Yudkevich Yury)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:55 2004
Subject: Bounced
In-Reply-To: <001001c0fe70$17cbd340$6fb8fea9@computer>
Message-ID: <002b01c0ff03$891df300$6e3fefc3@a1g0h5>

Dear Ted,
I was concerned too. A thank. I wanted to ask dr. Larson or dr. English to
make comments of the situation. How we can help?
Yury (Russia)
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Ted
Clayton
To: <A title=jovick@island.net
href="mailto:jovick@island.net">John Flottvik ; <A title=stoves@crest.org
href="mailto:stoves@crest.org">stoves@crest.org
Cc: <A
title=stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com
href="mailto:stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com">stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03
AM
Subject: Re: Bounced

John & Stovers;

I, too, received a rather wierd message from
the Stoves mailing program (not from a person). And, I too
have seen no Stoves traffic recently. The message alarmed me,
because it seemed to imply that I am an "abuser"; happily, this turned out to
be an incorrect interpretation.

Investigations with, and by, my ISP show
that it is Crest.org, and/or Crest.Solarhost.com that have gotten into trouble
because someone has distributed Spam from their mail-servers.

There exists an organization that keeps track
of spamming websites, and ISPs use a list they distribute, to filter or block
messages originating from know spam sites. The likely reason why you are
not getting e-mail from Stoves, is because your ISP is 'protecting' you.
This is a good thing, as a rule. The watchdog organization is:
<A
href="http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16">http://www.mail-abuse.org

It did not appear to a problem for my ISP to
get Crest.org off the spammers list, and they tell me that affairs should
return to normal, at least from their end. Crest.org may have to do a
little scrambling.

I have the citation from Mail-Abuse.org for
which Crest got into trouble. It appears to be an isolated incident, and
not at all a bad reflection upon them in general.
<A
href="http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16">http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16

I debated with myself, whether to send this
reply to only John Flottvik, or to the Stovers in general. But
I've heard nothing from the Stoves owner, or from Crest, so have decided to
distribute this information for others who may also be confused.

I have 'lurked' happily on the Stoves list, and
was disappointed that it seemed to 'fall apart'. Let's encourage the
owners and distributors of the list to continue the project.

Hope the list recovers soon!

Ted Clayton
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
John Flottvik

To: <A title=stoves@crest.org
href="mailto:stoves@crest.org">stoves@crest.org
Cc: <A
title=stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com
href="mailto:stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com">stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:44
AM
Subject: Bounced

June 26, 2001

Dear Stoves

I'm not sure why I have not got any mail from
Stoves, and why messages has bounced. I assumed you cut me from the mailing
list.

Regards
John
Flottvik

From Staub.John at epamail.epa.gov Wed Jun 27 14:29:11 2001
From: Staub.John at epamail.epa.gov (Staub.John@epamail.epa.gov)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:55 2004
Subject: corn burning stoves
Message-ID: <OFC986868D.34E4B300-ON85256A78.00640FE2@rtp.epa.gov>

Hi,
I am a summer intern at the EPA's National Center for Environmental
Economics researching the impacts of burning corn for residential space
heat. I am looking for suggestions as to where to find data concerning
emissions (mainly CO and PM), energy output in BTUs, and energy
efficiencies of corn burning stoves. One goal of the project is to compare
the net energy production of burning corn kernels, to converting it first
to ethanol and then to residential heat.

Thank you for your help,
John

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From phoenix98604 at earthlink.net Wed Jun 27 16:23:29 2001
From: phoenix98604 at earthlink.net (Art Krenzel)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:55 2004
Subject: corn burning stoves
In-Reply-To: <OFC986868D.34E4B300-ON85256A78.00640FE2@rtp.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <002501c0ff47$47bfffe0$a034fea9@oemcomputer>

John,

When using agricultural products as heating fuels, please include the fossil
fuel energies (i.e.diesel fuel, fertilizer and irrigation costs) required to
raise the crop to get an actual view of the costs. It may even be a
separated as its own category however it is a real expenditure of energy.

These energy costs are normally glossed over or limited to very fine print
when discussing using agricultural products as fuel.

Art Krenzel

----- Original Message -----
From: <Staub.John@epamail.epa.gov>
To: <stoves@crest.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:19 AM
Subject: corn burning stoves

> Hi,
> I am a summer intern at the EPA's National Center for Environmental
> Economics researching the impacts of burning corn for residential space
> heat. I am looking for suggestions as to where to find data concerning
> emissions (mainly CO and PM), energy output in BTUs, and energy
> efficiencies of corn burning stoves. One goal of the project is to compare
> the net energy production of burning corn kernels, to converting it first
> to ethanol and then to residential heat.
>
> Thank you for your help,
> John
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net
>
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From mheat at mha-net.org Wed Jun 27 22:03:45 2001
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:55 2004
Subject: corn burning stoves
In-Reply-To: <OFC986868D.34E4B300-ON85256A78.00640FE2@rtp.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010627215905.00beb890@127.0.0.1>

At 01:25 PM 2001-06-27 -0700, Art Krenzel wrote:
>John,
>
>When using agricultural products as heating fuels, please include the fossil
>fuel energies (i.e.diesel fuel, fertilizer and irrigation costs) required to
>raise the crop to get an actual view of the costs.

I don't have the reference handy, but recall reading a Scientific American
article about 25 years ago that compared the energy inputs and returns of
primitive agriculture and modern agriculture. Although my recollection is
hazy, I seem to recall in that particular comparison, primitive agriculture
produced about 2 BTU's for every BTU of input (mostly labor), and corn
growing in the US produced about 1 BTU for every BTU of input, mostly
fossil fuel. Don't quote me on this.

Best ..... Norbert Senf

----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
Masonry Stove Builders (remove -nospam)
RR 5, Shawville------- www.heatkit.com
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru Thu Jun 28 03:58:13 2001
From: woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru (Yudkevich Yury)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
Message-ID: <008d01c0ffa8$1385d360$6c3fefc3@a1g0h5>

Dear colleagues,
Forum and the exhibitions, about which you will read in applied papers, are
popular in Europe. I shall be glad to see any of you as participant. The forum
allows to conclude the bargains with the partners not only in Russia, but also
in Scandinavia and other countries of Europe. October in St. Petersburg seldom
happens rainy. It is late autumn (10.. 15 degrees C<FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>). The city is very beautiful in this period.
Pol,
I hope. That the business with "Pyramids" can interest Scandinavia, and in
St. Petersburg easily organize their manufacture.

Yury Yudkevich, Dr. Assoc.
prof. Sanct-Petersburg State Forest Technical
Academy, Department of Forest Chemical Products and Biological
activity Substunces (Russia) fone 7+812+5520430 fax
7+812+55008155, Institutsky per. St.-Petersburg, 194021,
Russia
les-forum-prog05.doc
FORUM.doc

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

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From nuan at atnet.ru Thu Jun 28 10:10:26 2001
From: nuan at atnet.ru (Nuan)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Equipment for charcoal production
Message-ID: <006701c0ffdc$6d92d040$313b18d5@user>

Dear Sirs,

Our company NUAN Ltd from Russia is looking for industrial
equipment for production of activated charcoal. We are planning a plant for
approximately 5,000 tonne per year of charcoal.

If anyone knows companies that manufacture such equipment, could you please
send me their e-mail adresses or other contact details?

Thank you,

Alexander Antsiferov
NUAN Ltd
Arkhangelsk, Russia
Tel\fax: 007 8182 625815
Email: nuan@atnet.ru

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From tedclayton at tenforward.com Thu Jun 28 10:23:29 2001
From: tedclayton at tenforward.com (Ted Clayton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
In-Reply-To: <008d01c0ffa8$1385d360$6c3fefc3@a1g0h5>
Message-ID: <003301c0ffdd$506f4a60$ee85a141@tedscomputer>

Dear Dr. Yuri,

Sad to say, the Stoves List has fallen into
disarray. In the United States, many ISPs, through which subscribers
receive the mailing, are blocking messages from the Crest.org
distributors. There have been problems with 'spamming' from their
facility.

Furthermore, neither the List Owner, nor the List
Moderators, nor the List Distributors are communicating with subscribers, to
inform us of the nature of the problem, or of our status in using the
List.

Altogether, we are in an unstable and vulnerable
predicament.

As a general Internet security protocol, I am
very cautious about opening "e-mail attachments" that originate from sources
with which I am not familiar. There are those who take advantage of the
access that an opened attachment is given to ones' entire system.

I have two requests. Can you provide more
information about the content of the documents you have sent to the Stoves List
subscribers? And two, do you have a URL that can be included with your
mailings? Such a link can be used by message recipients to obtain more
information about yourself and the activities that you are publicizing.
(Many who recieve your messages, Sir, simply do not know who you
are.)

I must for now leave the attachments
unopen.

Thank you.

Ted Clayton
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A href="mailto:woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru"
title=woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru>Yudkevich Yury
To: <A href="mailto:stoves@crest.org"
title=stoves@crest.org>stoves@crest.org
Cc: <A href="mailto:phait@hwy97.net"
title=phait@hwy97.net>Hait Paul
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:26
AM
Subject: FORUM

Dear colleagues,
Forum and the exhibitions, about which you will read in applied papers, are
popular in Europe. I shall be glad to see any of you as participant. The forum
allows to conclude the bargains with the partners not only in Russia, but also
in Scandinavia and other countries of Europe. October in St. Petersburg seldom
happens rainy. It is late autumn (10.. 15 degrees C<FONT color=#000000
face=Arial size=2>). The city is very beautiful in this period.
Pol,
I hope. That the business with "Pyramids" can interest Scandinavia, and in
St. Petersburg easily organize their manufacture.

Yury Yudkevich, Dr. Assoc.
prof. Sanct-Petersburg State Forest Technical
Academy, Department of Forest Chemical Products and
Biological activity Substunces (Russia) fone 7+812+5520430 fax
7+812+55008155, Institutsky per. St.-Petersburg, 194021,
Russia

-Stoves List Archives and
Website:http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.htmlStoves
List Moderators:Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.netAlex English,
english@adan.kingston.netSponsor the Stoves List:
http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html-Other Biomass Stoves Events and
Information:http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtmlFor
information about CHAMBERS
STOVEShttp://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From willing at mb.sympatico.ca Thu Jun 28 11:26:54 2001
From: willing at mb.sympatico.ca (Scott Willing)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
In-Reply-To: <003301c0ffdd$506f4a60$ee85a141@tedscomputer>
Message-ID: <200106281524.f5SFOjv06003@smtp2.mts.net>

I agree. Microsoft documents are particularly easy to attach macro
viruses to. Even though I keep my virus-checking software up to
date, I will rarely if ever open them unless I am very familiar with the
source and I am expecting the mail.

To Ted's concerns I will add this:

I am in a rural area using a slow dial-up connection, and it takes
several minutes to download such a message.

For me this is only an annoyance. However, for many people on
this list, every minute on line counts.

The files were uncompressed Word documents. This maddeningly
common practice excludes users of other platforms, and
consumes much bandwidth needlessly.

A single ZIP archive can contain these files in less than 20% of
their original size (actual test results). Optimized PDF versions
would be more widely readable and also much smaller, but that still
requires a fairly fast and modern computer with a graphical UI.

Best solution:

1. Extract the essence of the documents in ASCII text.

2. Post this text on a website.

3. Include a download link on the web page to compressed or PDF
versions of the documents, for those who have platforms to view
graphic-rich content.

4. Post a short subject summary and a URL to the list, including
the text extraction right in the body of the message, but *only* if it
is short.

I realize to a certain extent I'm compounding the problem by
sending this message, but IMHO it's worth it. Many folks, perhaps
accustomed to high-bandwidth institutional internet connections,
are quite innocent of these issues and may never have used a non-
Microsoft Windows environment, or compressed a file in their lives.

Very best,
Scott Willing

From: "Ted Clayton" <tedclayton@tenforward.com>
To: "Yudkevich Yury" <woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru>, <stoves@crest.org>
Copies to: "Hait Paul" <phait@hwy97.net>
Subject: Re: FORUM
Date sent: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 07:19:15 -0700

> Dear Dr. Yuri,
>
> Sad to say, the Stoves List has fallen into disarray.

[snipped for bandwidth]

> I must for now leave the attachments unopen.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Ted Clayton
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Yudkevich Yury
> To: stoves@crest.org
> Cc: Hait Paul
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:26 AM
> Subject: FORUM
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>

> Forum and the exhibitions, about which you will read in applied
> papers, are popular in Europe.

{snipped for bandwidth]

> Pol,
>
> I hope. That the business with "Pyramids" can interest
> Scandinavia, and in St. Petersburg easily organize their
> manufacture.
>
>
>
> Yury Yudkevich, Dr. Assoc. prof.
> Sanct-Petersburg State Forest Technical Academy,
> Department of Forest Chemical Products
> and Biological activity Substunces (Russia)
> fone 7+812+5520430 fax 7+812+5500815
> 5, Institutsky per. St.-Petersburg, 194021, Russia
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net
>
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru Thu Jun 28 12:07:37 2001
From: woodcoal at mailbox.alkor.ru (Yudkevich Yury)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
In-Reply-To: <008d01c0ffa8$1385d360$6c3fefc3@a1g0h5>
Message-ID: <019201c0ffec$ad47c320$6c3fefc3@a1g0h5>

I have the rather fast modem and has not taken into account difficulties,
which has delivered to anothers. I ask to excuse <FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2>me. I promise
to take into account this remark. I think, many constant clients <FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>"<FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>stoves" know me<FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>. I addressed to them.
Once again I ask apologies.
Yury
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
Ted
Clayton
To: <A title=woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru
href="mailto:woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru">Yudkevich Yury ; <A
title=stoves@crest.org href="mailto:stoves@crest.org">stoves@crest.org

Cc: <A title=phait@hwy97.net
href="mailto:phait@hwy97.net">Hait Paul
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 6:19
PM
Subject: Re: FORUM

Dear Dr. Yuri,

Sad to say, the Stoves List has fallen into
disarray. In the United States, many ISPs, through which subscribers
receive the mailing, are blocking messages from the Crest.org
distributors. There have been problems with 'spamming' from their
facility.

Furthermore, neither the List Owner, nor the
List Moderators, nor the List Distributors are communicating with subscribers,
to inform us of the nature of the problem, or of our status in using the
List.

Altogether, we are in an unstable and
vulnerable predicament.

As a general Internet security protocol, I am
very cautious about opening "e-mail attachments" that originate from sources
with which I am not familiar. There are those who take advantage of the
access that an opened attachment is given to ones' entire system.

I have two requests. Can you provide more
information about the content of the documents you have sent to the Stoves
List subscribers? And two, do you have a URL that can be included with
your mailings? Such a link can be used by message recipients to obtain
more information about yourself and the activities that you are
publicizing. (Many who recieve your messages, Sir, simply do not know
who you are.)

I must for now leave the attachments
unopen.

Thank you.

Ted
Clayton

From tjones at repp.org Thu Jun 28 12:08:29 2001
From: tjones at repp.org (tjones)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: An Update on the Stoves List
In-Reply-To: <008d01c0ffa8$1385d360$6c3fefc3@a1g0h5>
Message-ID: <3B3B56E1.3090500@repp.org>

Dear Mr. Clayton and all Stoves List subscribers,

Hello,

My name is Tayleah Jones and I am the Internet and publications manager for
REPP-CREST. REPP-CREST is the organization that hosts the Stoves and many
other discussion lists, including bioenergy, gasification and lists discussing
green building and strawbale construction.

I just wanted to clarify a few points about what was happening with the discussion lists last week.

The problem started with spam. Thankfully, none of the discussion lists
specifically hosted by CREST, including Stoves, have been subject to actual
spamming. However, a different list hosted by our vendor on the same server
WAS "spammed." This incident caused the ENTIRE mail server to be "black
holed" by a number of ISP's--not just one discussion list (unfortunately!).

Being "black holed" meant that certain ISP servers would not accept mail
messages from the server being used by crest.org/the stoves discussion list.
Hence the bounced messages, the confusing "probe" messages, and the automatic
removal of some subscribers--a measure the mailing list software takes automatically
rather than filling all the other subscriber’s mail boxes with bounced messages.

It did take some time to track down the problem and we apologize that REPP-CREST
was not able to inform you more quickly of what exactly was happening. Our
vendor has since contacted the ISP's and Mail-Abuse.org (an organization
that monitors spamming) and the situation has been remedied.

Since our vendor has taken definitive steps to prevent this from happening
again, the entire server has been removed from the RSS list maintained by
Mail-abuse.org. And, while there may still be a brief period of adjustment
while the correction circulates our vendor assures us that this will not
be a problem in the future.

We apologize for any inconvenience or uncertainty you may have experienced.
We value your privacy and are working to ensure that all of our discussion
lists remain well protected. We appreciate your contributions to this list
and the community it represents. We hope you will all continue to share
your thoughts here and continue to build this valuable resource. Thank you
for your patience and concern.

Sincerely,

--Tayleah Jones
Internet and publications manager, REPP-CREST

Ted Clayton wrote:
003301c0ffdd$506f4a60$ee85a141@tedscomputer">
Dear Dr. Yuri,

Sad to say, the Stoves List has fallen into
disarray. In the United States, many ISPs, through which subscribers
receive the mailing, are blocking messages from the Crest.org
distributors. There have been problems with 'spamming' from their
facility.

Furthermore, neither the List Owner, nor the List
Moderators, nor the List Distributors are communicating with subscribers, to
inform us of the nature of the problem, or of our status in using the
List.

Altogether, we are in an unstable and vulnerable
predicament.

As a general Internet security protocol, I am
very cautious about opening "e-mail attachments" that originate from sources
with which I am not familiar. There are those who take advantage of the
access that an opened attachment is given to ones' entire system.

I have two requests. Can you provide more
information about the content of the documents you have sent to the Stoves List
subscribers? And two, do you have a URL that can be included with your
mailings? Such a link can be used by message recipients to obtain more
information about yourself and the activities that you are publicizing.
(Many who recieve your messages, Sir, simply do not know who you
are.)

I must for now leave the attachments
unopen.

Thank you.

Ted Clayton
----- Original Message ----- From:Yudkevich Yury<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-heig!
ht: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none; ">To:stoves@crest.orgCc:Hait PaulSent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:26
AMSubject: FORUMDear colleagues,Forum and the exhibitions, about which you will read in applied papers, are
popular in Europe. I shall be glad to see any of you as participant. The forum
allows to conclude the bargains with the partners not only in Russia, but also
in Scandinavia and other countries of Europe. October in St. Petersburg seldom
happens rainy. It is late autumn (10.. 15 degrees C). The city is very beautiful in this period.Pol,I hope. That the business with "Pyramids" can interest Scandinavia, and in
St. Petersburg easily organize their manufacture. Yury Yudkevich, Dr. Assoc.
prof. Sanct-Petersburg State Forest Technical
Academy, Department of Forest Chemical Products and
Biological activity Substunces (Russia) fone 7+812+5520430 fax
7+812+55008155, Institutsky per. St.-Petersburg, 194021,
Russia-Stoves List Archives and
Website:http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.htmlStoves
List Moderators:Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.netAlex English,
english@adan.kingston.netSponsor the Stoves List:
http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html-Other Biomass Stoves Events and
Information:http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtmlFor
information about CHAMBERS
STOVEShttp://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

--
Tayleah L. Jones, Internet and Publications Manager
Renewable Energy Policy Project (REPP)
Center for Renewable Energy and Sustainable Technology (CREST)
1612 K St, NW #202, Washington, DC 20006
202.293.2898; Fax: 202.293.5857
www.repp.org and www.crest.org

From tedclayton at tenforward.com Thu Jun 28 12:24:59 2001
From: tedclayton at tenforward.com (Ted Clayton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
In-Reply-To: <200106281524.f5SFOjv06003@smtp2.mts.net>
Message-ID: <008f01c0ffee$4a5bbf80$ee85a141@tedscomputer>

Stovers All,

I owe an apology to Dr. Yuri for my brusque criticism of his FORUM mailing. The details of my protest are accurate (as are Scott Willig's suggestions), but the spirit of my delivery was inappropriate.

In examining more closely the Crest/Solstice operation, I note that indeed Dr.Yuri is a conspicuous & noteworth member of the stoves/biomass/alternative energy community. Please accept my apology & regret, Dr. Yuri, for not contacting you discretely about my concerns.
~~~~~

While I am addressing the community, I wish to call for a suitable level of attention to be directed at problems that are occuring with the Stoves List, and with the Crest/Solstice sponsors. Attempts to contact the List Owner are being bounced by Crest.

In fact, I was researching the Crest/Solstice website mainly to find a way to Unsubscribe from the List, and was alarmed that I could find no such facility provided. That is not proper.

Failure to acknowledge, much less explain current difficulties unfortunately exacerbates the problem.

Thank you All,

Ted Clayton

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Willing <willing@mb.sympatico.ca>

> I agree. Microsoft documents are particularly easy to attach macro
> viruses to. Even though I keep my virus-checking software up to
> date, I will rarely if ever open them unless I am very familiar with the
> source and I am expecting the mail.
>
> To Ted's concerns I will add this:
-- snip --

> From: "Ted Clayton" <tedclayton@tenforward.com>
>
> > Dear Dr. Yuri,
> >
> > Sad to say, the Stoves List has fallen into disarray.
>
> [snipped for bandwidth]
>
> > From: Yudkevich Yury
> > To: stoves@crest.org

-- snip --

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From elk at wananchi.com Thu Jun 28 12:31:45 2001
From: elk at wananchi.com (elk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: new extruder
Message-ID: <3B3B5B4D.000005.17151@pentium-333>

<TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION width="100%" style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-RIGHT: 7px"
>
Hello stovers;

Check out a picture of our new big extruder at <A
href="http://www.chardust.com/2000pres/extrusion.jpg">http://www.chardust.com/2000pres/extrusion.jpg

Just installed, it can produce over 250 kg per hour of 3.5 cm dia.
briquettes- boosting our production by nearly 50%. We are currently making
(and selling I'm pleased to report) over 4000 kg of VWB- Vendor's Waste
Briquettes- per day here in Nairobi.

For those who dont's know or can't recall just what that's all about,
be my guest & browse through the rest of Chardust's website.

I'll provide an update on the results of our work with TRAFFIC-
turning waste into charcoal fuel- soon.

rgds;

elk

Elsen Karstad
Chardust Ltd.
www.chardust.com

From tedclayton at tenforward.com Thu Jun 28 12:40:56 2001
From: tedclayton at tenforward.com (Ted Clayton)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: An Update on the Stoves List
In-Reply-To: <008d01c0ffa8$1385d360$6c3fefc3@a1g0h5>
Message-ID: <00b201c0fff0$6a558f80$ee85a141@tedscomputer>

Thank you, Tayleah. Your message is most
helpful, and very encouraging.

Ted Clayton
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
tjones

Dear Mr. Clayton and all Stoves List subscribers,Hello,My
name is Tayleah Jones ...

-- snip --

From ronallarson at qwest.net Thu Jun 28 21:34:33 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Reply to Dr. Yuri and Ted Clayton
In-Reply-To: <001001c0fe70$17cbd340$6fb8fea9@computer>
Message-ID: <00ad01c1003b$7f8b7180$b1f3b4d1@computer>

Hi to all (but especially to Dr. Yuri and Ted
Clayton.

Thanks for your
messages. I did also receive in the last two days the messages from Ted
Clayton and John Flottvik. As near as I can tell from these message, there is no
problem at CREST.

However, Tom - can you add
anything about why CREST may have been rejecting some mail?

One problem is that we have
not been getting items to discuss. So anyone with news is strongly
encouraged to send it in now.

I take much of the blame, as I
have not responded to several messages that came in and which had intrigued me.

My time problem has
been in being busy on other projects. Mostly these are renewable
energy policy ideas for my state of Colorado, USA:
1).various possible incentives
such as a renewables portfolio standard, a systems benefit charge, various tax
issues, net metering, solar access issues, and trying to promote certain
non-electric renewable technologies that can reduce the need for electrical
generation. Energy issues have been a hot topic here and the climate is
right to make some changes that will favor renewables.
2) changing management
issues for the Colorado Renewable Energy Society (CRES), which is my primary
volunteer activity these days. We have had some big policy successes
lately and this leads to more work.
3) an upcoming CRES conference -
with planning meetings
4) working on trying to
better understand US natural gas projections (our prices recently doubled - our
gas companies are saying this is an aberration - no problems). But I think
we may have passed our US peak of possible production - wells are not producing
what they did even a few years ago. We have no consensus in this country
on where we are.
5) just came back from a week
getting to and back from my 50th high school reunion.

I mention all these topics in
case ayone can help with any topic.

I also hope to send out a real stoves message
out tonight or tomorrow. Topic to be holes in briquettes.

Again sorry for our problems.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A href="mailto:woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru"
title=woodcoal@mailbox.alkor.ru>Yudkevich Yury
To: <A
href="mailto:tedclayton@tenforward.com" title=tedclayton@tenforward.com>Ted
Clayton
Cc: <A href="mailto:stoves@crest.org"
title=stoves@crest.org>stoves@crest.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 6:13
AM
Subject: Re: Bounced

Dear Ted,
I was concerned too. A thank. I wanted to ask dr. Larson or dr. English to
make comments of the situation. How we can help?
Yury (Russia)
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
<A href="mailto:tedclayton@tenforward.com"
title=tedclayton@tenforward.com>Ted Clayton
To: <A href="mailto:jovick@island.net"
title=jovick@island.net>John Flottvik ; <A
href="mailto:stoves@crest.org" title=stoves@crest.org>stoves@crest.org

Cc: <A
href="mailto:stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com"
title=stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com>stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 4:03
AM
Subject: Re: Bounced

John & Stovers;

I, too, received a rather wierd message from
the Stoves mailing program (not from a person). And, I too
have seen no Stoves traffic recently. The message alarmed me,
because it seemed to imply that I am an "abuser"; happily, this turned out
to be an incorrect interpretation.

Investigations with, and by, my ISP
show that it is Crest.org, and/or Crest.Solarhost.com that have gotten into
trouble because someone has distributed Spam from their mail-servers.

There exists an organization that keeps track
of spamming websites, and ISPs use a list they distribute, to filter or
block messages originating from know spam sites. The likely reason why
you are not getting e-mail from Stoves, is because your ISP is 'protecting'
you. This is a good thing, as a rule.  The watchdog
organization is:
<A
href="http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16">http://www.mail-abuse.org

It did not appear to a problem for my ISP to
get Crest.org off the spammers list, and they tell me that affairs should
return to normal, at least from their end. Crest.org may have to do a
little scrambling.

I have the citation from Mail-Abuse.org for
which Crest got into trouble. It appears to be an isolated incident,
and not at all a bad reflection upon them in general.
<A
href="http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16">http://www.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rss?query=206.112.78.16

I debated with myself, whether to send this
reply to only John Flottvik, or to the Stovers in
general.  But I've heard nothing from the Stoves owner, or from
Crest, so have decided to distribute this information for others who may
also be confused.

I have 'lurked' happily on the Stoves list,
and was disappointed that it seemed to 'fall apart'. Let's encourage
the owners and distributors of the list to continue the
project.

Hope the list recovers soon!

Ted Clayton
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From:
John
Flottvik
To: <A href="mailto:stoves@crest.org"
title=stoves@crest.org>stoves@crest.org
Cc: <A
href="mailto:stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com"
title=stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com>stoves-owner@crest.solarhost.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 11:44
AM
Subject: Bounced

June 26, 2001

Dear Stoves

I'm not sure why I have not got any mail from
Stoves, and why messages has bounced. I assumed you cut me from the
mailing list.

Regards
John
Flottvik

From ez2do99 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 28 23:58:47 2001
From: ez2do99 at yahoo.com (MC Hellic)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: corn burning stoves
In-Reply-To: <OFC986868D.34E4B300-ON85256A78.00640FE2@rtp.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <20010629035652.17021.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>

Try these liknks:

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/93-023.htm

http://www.cornburner.com/BM991.html

--- Staub.John@epamail.epa.gov wrote:
> Hi,
> I am a summer intern at the EPA's National Center
> for Environmental
> Economics researching the impacts of burning corn
> for residential space
> heat. I am looking for suggestions as to where to
> find data concerning
> emissions (mainly CO and PM), energy output in BTUs,
> and energy
> efficiencies of corn burning stoves. One goal of the
> project is to compare
> the net energy production of burning corn kernels,
> to converting it first
> to ethanol and then to residential heat.
>
> Thank you for your help,
> John
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net
>
> Sponsor the Stoves List:
> http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
>
http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From kishorem at bom3.vsnl.net.in Fri Jun 29 00:25:31 2001
From: kishorem at bom3.vsnl.net.in (Kishore V Mariwala)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Deletion of my name from email list
Message-ID: <3B3C0386.E78A0B26@bom3.vsnl.net.in>

How can I get my name deleted from the email list? I am no longer
interested in getting email on stoves
Kishore Mariwala
kishorem@bom3.vsnl.net.in
kmariwala@vsnl.com

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From ronallarson at qwest.net Fri Jun 29 01:38:30 2001
From: ronallarson at qwest.net (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Briquettes with holes
Message-ID: <014e01c1005d$90548020$b1f3b4d1@computer>

Stovers:

The following is a relatively "new" topic that
I hope others can comment on - especially those who have similar photographic or
other data.

The "New" topic is the impact of holes in
briquettes. This topic intrigued me after Alex English sent a message on
May 14, noting the availability of new pictures on his web site coming from
Richard Stanley (and I see from my archives that Richard also sent some of the
picture on April 26). The figure shows what appears to be a much superior
flame in the interior hole of this briquette. I think the reason is
obvious - much higher temperature there - as radiation from the flame is much
more effective in heating the pyrolyzing interior surface. That is -
probably 70-80% of the radiant energy produced at the surface (not that produced
as the pyrolysis gases burn above the fuel) is useful in heating the inner
surface of the hole. On the outer surface of the same briquette, the
radiant energy input must drop by a factor of at least 2 or 3 (depending on the
proximity of other briquettes - this is not a function of the properties of
the same briquette). These observations are based in part on the
photographs sent to Alex by Richard, but I also think I saw other photos
somewhere that are not now on Richard's web site (<A
href="http://www.legacyfound.org">www.legacyfound.org). I suppose that
one could see something similar with a pile of usual combustible material (with
many varying distances). But that would be very difficult to understand
compared to this relatively simple geometry.

Richard's briquette has a
geometry quite similar to that studied for a sawdust-burning stove by Dr.
Priyadarshini Karve (but which is only combusting on an inside so comparison
is not possible). The charcoal-making stoves have a similar
situation, although essentially 100% of the pyrolysis front optical energy is
reabsorbed on a surface that benefits from being heated.

I should also note that Paul
Hait has put a lot of attention into the stacking of charcoal briquettes
carefully for similar reasons - to ensure that the radiant energy from one
briquette usefully and uniformly strikes a neighbor. Probably about half
of the radiant energy at the surface is so captured at a neighbor - with the
other half (a guess) traveling up or down above his array

With these background comments,
I have these questions for Richard (or others) about his toroid-shaped
briquettes:

1. Have you tried different size initial
holes, with what results?

2. What was your reason for choosing the
final ID value?

3. Have you looked at combustion properties
(degree of combustion of flue gases, etc)? (I saw that you had some
studies perfomed - could you expand on those results. Assuming good
results, how much of the results do you attribute to the inner
hole?)

4. Can you estimate the rate of fuel
consumption for the pyrolysis zone moving outward vs. that zone moving
inward?

5. Have you ever considered or tested
multiple holes in a briquette?

6. Any comments available from users of the
briquette as to it having better characteristics (such as speed of
lighting, ease of power level control, etc)

7. Anyone tried different methods of stacking
the briquettes - and what results?

Thanks in advance for any comments on your study of briquettes with
holes.

Ron

From reap at interlink.net Fri Jun 29 10:00:10 2001
From: reap at interlink.net (REAP-Canada)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: The energetics of corn burning
In-Reply-To: <20010629035652.17021.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c100a4$56284200$0201010a@proview>

John

Roughly you can figure corn grain has an energy output:input ratio of 5.5:1
for its production or requires about 20-25 GJ/ha to grow.

We made a few comparisons in the past comparing corn ethanol to switchgrass
ethanol and switchgrass fuels pellets.(see www.reap.ca /reports/Switchgrass
as a greenhouse gas offset strategy. Corn grain is pretty simple to put into
the comparison as it has no coproducts and no lost feedstock energy or
fossil energy used in biomass processing.

How much net energy can you grow per hectare with each system?

corn ethanol corn grain
heat switchgrass ethanol switchgrass pellet heat

Raw Biomass
Yield/ha 6.5 ODT/ha 6.5 ODT/ha
10 ODT/ha 10 ODT/ha

Collected Biomass 136.5 136.5
185 185
Energy (Gj/ha)

Energy Yield after 64.2 + 136.5
73.0 175.8
Conversion (Gj/ha) coproducts

Energy Consumed 42.8 + 20-25
15.9 12.7
in Production and coproduct credits
conversion

Net Energy Gain/ha 21.4 ~115
47.2 163.1

So you can see why corn ethanol needs to be subsidized so heavily. Growing
switchgrass on marginal lands can displace 7 times as much oil as corn
ethanol produced from productive soils. Burning corn grain to displace oil
heating makes much more energetic and land use sense than corn ethanol
production as means to displace oil imports. New multifuel burning
combustion stoves are coming on the market (www.pelletstove.com) which will
lead to grain being a major fuel source and drive up its value from its
current feed grain value to its space heating value. This will drive up land
costs and grain prices and pretty much end the corn ethanol industry. Then
also grass pellets grown on marginal lands will evolve to be the main
heating source as corn will be too expensive and the wood pellet industry
will run out of fibre. My guess is that it should take about 5 years if
fossil energy prices remain high.

I do not know if money is well spent continuing to prime the ethanol pump
with subsidies (or value added grants as they have been recently called)
when there could be major R & D efforts to develop biomass
heat...bioenergy's best comparative advantage for development.

regards

Roger Samson

Resource Efficient Agricultural Production (REAP)-Canada
Box 125
Maison Glenaladale
Ste Anne de Bellevue, Quebec, H9X 3V9
Tel. (514) 398-7743, Fax (514) 398-7972
REAP@interlink.net
WWW.REAP.CA

"Creating ecological systems of energy, fibre and food production"

> --- Staub.John@epamail.epa.gov wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am a summer intern at the EPA's National Center
> > for Environmental
> > Economics researching the impacts of burning corn
> > for residential space
> > heat. I am looking for suggestions as to where to
> > find data concerning
> > emissions (mainly CO and PM), energy output in BTUs,
> > and energy
> > efficiencies of corn burning stoves. One goal of the
> > project is to compare
> > the net energy production of burning corn kernels,
> > to converting it first
> > to ethanol and then to residential heat.
> >
> > Thank you for your help,
> > John
> >
> >
> > -
> > Stoves List Archives and Website:
> > http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
> > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
> >
> > Stoves List Moderators:
> > Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> > Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net
> >
> > Sponsor the Stoves List:
> > http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> > -
> > Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> > http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> > http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> >
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
> >
> > For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> > http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net
>
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
> Other Biomass Stoves Events and Information:
> http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/
> http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/carbon.shtml
>
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>

-
Stoves List Archives and Website:
http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html

Stoves List Moderators:
Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net

For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm

From terran1 at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 29 10:13:34 2001
From: terran1 at bellsouth.net (Terran Trading)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: briquettes with holes
Message-ID: <004101c100a4$ee633480$5adb4dd8@compaqcomputer>

Dr. Larson,

<FONT
size=2>               I
am glad stove is back to normal again, I have learned much from reading the
e-mails, I received, and I feel priviledged to be part of it, and is not
a 'lill glitch like this that will upset me.

<FONT
size=2>
Regarding the intensity of the flames from the briquette with holes, our
experience has been, that it wil depend on the density of the
briquette. And that the coconut briquette will flame
higher, not necessarily longer, I believe that is because the coconut
shell has more oils than other biomass.
<FONT
size=2>
I am breaking down my files, and will share them with the stovers, how big a
file can I send in, is 300k too big?

<FONT
size=2>               Regards,
Regina

From reap at interlink.net Fri Jun 29 10:26:37 2001
From: reap at interlink.net (REAP-Canada)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: The energetics of corn burning
In-Reply-To: <20010629035652.17021.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c100a8$07813ae0$0201010a@proview>

Opps sorry about that table it should read as follows.
Just in case the first value for each line is corn ethanol (CE), the second
corn grain heat (CGH), the third switchgrass ethanol (SE)and the fourth
switchgrass pellet heat (SPH) so the final values for each in net energy
gain are 21.6 , ~115 , 57.1 and 163.1 GJ/ha respectively.
> CE CGH SE
SPH
>
> Raw Biomass
> YieldODT /ha 6.5 6.5 10 10
>
> Collected Biomass 36.5 136.5 185 185
> Energy (GJ/ha)
>
> Energy Yield after 64.2 + 136.5 73.0 175.8
> Conversion (GJ/ha) coproducts(CP)
>
> Energy Consumed 42.8 + 20-25 15.9 12.7
> in Production and CP credits
> Conversion
>
> Net Energy Gain/ha 21.6 ~115 57.1 163.1
>

Roger Samson
Resource Efficient Agricultural Production (REAP)-Canada
Box 125
Maison Glenaladale
Ste Anne de Bellevue, Quebec, H9X 3V9
Tel. (514) 398-7743, Fax (514) 398-7972
REAP@interlink.net
WWW.REAP.CA

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From mheat at mha-net.org Fri Jun 29 10:45:39 2001
From: mheat at mha-net.org (Norbert Senf)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: The energetics of corn burning
In-Reply-To: <20010629035652.17021.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010629103808.00ddb220@127.0.0.1>

At 10:03 AM 2001-06-29 -0400, REAP-Canada wrote:
>(snip)
>
>I do not know if money is well spent continuing to prime the ethanol pump
>with subsidies (or value added grants as they have been recently called)
>when there could be major R & D efforts to develop biomass
>heat...bioenergy's best comparative advantage for development.
(snip)

One item that should be added to the discussion is energy quality. Methanol
can be used to power cars, whereas pellets can't (very easily, anyway).

Space heating requires low grade heat, so burning ethanol for space heating
doesn't make any sense. Neither does electricity or oil or gas, for that
matter. ("Cutting butter with a chainsaw", as Amory Lovins said).

One fuel that is often overlooked for space heating is cordwood. Recent
advances in masonry heater combustion technology, for example, allow it to
be burned on a domestic scale with particulate emissions in the same range
as pellets, about 1 g/kg.

Best ....... Norbert
----------------------------------------
Norbert Senf---------- mheat@mha-net.org-nospam
Masonry Stove Builders (remove -nospam)
RR 5, Shawville------- www.heatkit.com
Quebec J0X 2Y0-------- fax:-----819.647.6082
---------------------- voice:---819.647.5092

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From psanders at ilstu.edu Fri Jun 29 11:18:57 2001
From: psanders at ilstu.edu (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Briquettes with holes
Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010629093006.00e15930@mail.ilstu.edu>

Stovers,

Everything I know about briquettes I learned from Richard Stanley in the
past 6 weeks, entirely via e-mail and website and one phone call, plus a
few hours of hands-on experience in my backyard.

My friend Ed Francis and I built a fully functional compound-lever
briquette press according to Richard's design, and a much simpler
(dirt-cheap) single-lever press that we tested yesterday. Both work
fine. We have made about 80 briquettes, literally in my backyard.

(Pretty meager "qualifications", so do not think that I am making any
"expert comments.")

About Holes: In my humble opinion, it would be extremely easy to produce
any and all of the following variations of briquettes, using the same
press, and minimal additional materials for the variety of cylinders and
pipes and pistons needed:

Briquette diameters:

1 inch w/ no hole
2 inch w/ no hole
3 inch w/ one hole
4 inch w/ one hole we have done these four types.

6 inch w/ one hole
6 inch w/ 2 or 3 or 4 holes

(NOTE: When the diameter of the cylinder gets larger, the need for
compression force upon the piston in the cylinder increases greatly. BUT,
if multiple holes are made (thereby reducing the NET surface area needing
pressure, meaning the cylinder area minus the area of the holes), the
briquette could be of greater diameter.)

(Richard once told me that the original design of the briquette was with a
6-inch diameter. Also, he recommended briquettes that are between 3 and 5
inches in height. The photos do not show well that recommended height. I
think we will eventually be experimenting with height variations also, but
for now, think of briquettes of 4 inches or LESS height.)

Hole diameters:

We have used pipe with about 3/4 inch Outside diameter.
We could use pipes of smaller or larger outside diameters.

(the pipes slide out of the briquette VERY easily, so there should be no
problem in having multiple holes put into the briquettes.)

(It might be a little tricky to make the piston with the multiple holes
through which the pipes would slide, but if needed, that piston certainly
could be made.)

I make these comments so the pyro-experts can feel comfortable that if they
prove the benefits of holes of sizes X, Y, and Z, that briquettes could be
as easily made in those configurations as in the current single-hole
configuration.

Also, the discussion (by Aprovecho people, I think) of the need to keep the
outer wall of the stove insulated (to keep the generated heat compacted
around the burn), leads me to another comment. What if the briquettes are
burned in a "stove" (container, maybe like the Rocket stove) that is
slightly larger in diameter than the briquette? For example, place a 4
inch diameter briquette in a 5 or 6 inch diameter can with air entering in
the bottom.

As you may recall, in an earlier message I mentioned the need for people in
all societies to have a variety of ways to "cook, heat, bake, steam, fry,
broil, char, toast, etc." Therefore, the people in the developing world
might need 3 or 4 different types, sizes, compositions of briquettes to
meet the needs for several different types of fires.

Well, the Rotary Club to which Ed and I belong has accepted to do a
"briquette" project in southern Africa. With my wife and grown son, I
leave in 48 hours to South Africa and Mozambique (previously arranged trip)
where we will experiment (as a side activity) with introducing the
briquette process. We are real SMALL operators. We will provide a report
to all of you on the stoves list, but it might not be until September after
we get back to the USA.

[[[ As an aside: Are any of you who are on the Stoves list-serve also
members of Rotary Clubs? And if you are not, I encourage you to consider
joining. ]]]

Yours in service to those in need,

Paul

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders

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From psanders at ilstu.edu Fri Jun 29 11:25:21 2001
From: psanders at ilstu.edu (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Briquettes and corn
Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20010629102540.00e15ef0@mail.ilstu.edu>

Stovers,

A late thought:

There is no physical reason why some corn (or other energy-rich materials)
could not be incorporated in modest amounts into the briquettes.

But that will not happen in Africa. There the people EAT corn.

Paul
Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders

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From wdzeller at adelphia.net Fri Jun 29 14:20:53 2001
From: wdzeller at adelphia.net (william zeller)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: Briquettes with holes
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010629093006.00e15930@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <002201c100c8$44bbc4a0$60b23418@rcmdky.adelphia.net>

Stovers:

A number of companies in China have perfected the design and production of
both charcoal and coal briquettes of which a variety are pressed with holes
(called honeycomb briquettes) whose purpose is to improve combustion, boost
efficiency(~70%), and lower noxious emissions. If you are interested in
their products and technologies please consider visiting the following
company websites:

www.cbcm.com.cn/ebcm06.htm
www.coalmachine.com
www.itdevelop.com/briquette/technlgy.html

Also there are a number of companies who specialize in the production of the
"honeycomb briquette" stoves. Most of these products are designed for
mounting in a kitchen and in addition to providing cooking and kitchen
heating benefits they are also designed to heat water via gravity
circulation for central heating radiators. Though most of these stoves are
designed for use with coal briquettes, I would say that the same technology
could be used to harness the heat produced by charcoal briquettes.Some are
as follows(You will need to use the Babel Fish Translator found at the
Altavista Search Engine and your copy/paste features for some of these):

www.sjzlq.gov.cn/xz/dahe/bz/bzcp1.html
www.beijing-wanfa.com/doce/eproduct.htm
www.guanglei.com.cn
www.jzgy.net/mxqy/zagl/cpjs.htm
www.hede.com.cn/csnql.htm

Sincerely,

David Zeller

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul S. Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu>
To: Tom Reed <TOMBREED@HOME.COM>; <stoves@crest.org>
Cc: <bgmamablu@yahoo.com>; Bob and Karla Weldon <bobkarlaweldon@cs.com>; Jim
Nelson <jlnelso3@ilstu.edu>; Marilyn Boyd <mmboyd@ilstu.edu>; Gary and
Connie McGinnis <gmcginn@ilstu.edu>; Paul Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu>;
Noeli Anderson <normaltwo@juno.com>; Cristina Deutsch
<cristinadeutsch@aol.com>; Sharon Craig <shacraywca@yahoo.com>; Rick
Galbreath <gteam53@aol.com>; Marcia Haddigan <mjhaddi@ilstu.edu>; Sarah
Bourland <sbourland1@juno.com>; Doug McCarty <dlmccar@ilstu.edu>; Kathleen
Collins <Kathleen.Collins@hcc.cc.il.us>; Carol Torrens
<carolt@bloomingtonlibrary.org>; Ed Francis <cfranc@ilstu.edu>; Jeff Bathe
<jeffb@hcc.cc.il.us>; Tam Luallen <tluallen@aol.com>; Larry Pennie
<l18pen@aol.com>; Arlene Pennie <L18PEN@aol.com>; Barb Taylor
<barb.taylor.cbvf@statefarm.com>; Mark Taylor
<mark.taylor.gclu@statefarm.com>; Norma Presmeg <npresmeg@ilstu.edu>; Temba
Bassop
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 10:22 AM
Subject: Briquettes with holes

> Stovers,
>
> Everything I know about briquettes I learned from Richard Stanley in the
> past 6 weeks, entirely via e-mail and website and one phone call, plus a
> few hours of hands-on experience in my backyard.
>
> My friend Ed Francis and I built a fully functional compound-lever
> briquette press according to Richard's design, and a much simpler
> (dirt-cheap) single-lever press that we tested yesterday. Both work
> fine. We have made about 80 briquettes, literally in my backyard.
>
> (Pretty meager "qualifications", so do not think that I am making any
> "expert comments.")
>
> About Holes: In my humble opinion, it would be extremely easy to produce
> any and all of the following variations of briquettes, using the same
> press, and minimal additional materials for the variety of cylinders and
> pipes and pistons needed:
>
> Briquette diameters:
>
> 1 inch w/ no hole
> 2 inch w/ no hole
> 3 inch w/ one hole
> 4 inch w/ one hole we have done these four types.
>
> 6 inch w/ one hole
> 6 inch w/ 2 or 3 or 4 holes
>
> (NOTE: When the diameter of the cylinder gets larger, the need for
> compression force upon the piston in the cylinder increases greatly.
BUT,
> if multiple holes are made (thereby reducing the NET surface area needing
> pressure, meaning the cylinder area minus the area of the holes), the
> briquette could be of greater diameter.)
>
> (Richard once told me that the original design of the briquette was with a
> 6-inch diameter. Also, he recommended briquettes that are between 3 and 5
> inches in height. The photos do not show well that recommended height.
I
> think we will eventually be experimenting with height variations also, but
> for now, think of briquettes of 4 inches or LESS height.)
>
> Hole diameters:
>
> We have used pipe with about 3/4 inch Outside diameter.
> We could use pipes of smaller or larger outside diameters.
>
> (the pipes slide out of the briquette VERY easily, so there should be no
> problem in having multiple holes put into the briquettes.)
>
> (It might be a little tricky to make the piston with the multiple holes
> through which the pipes would slide, but if needed, that piston certainly
> could be made.)
>
> I make these comments so the pyro-experts can feel comfortable that if
they
> prove the benefits of holes of sizes X, Y, and Z, that briquettes could be
> as easily made in those configurations as in the current single-hole
> configuration.
>
> Also, the discussion (by Aprovecho people, I think) of the need to keep
the
> outer wall of the stove insulated (to keep the generated heat compacted
> around the burn), leads me to another comment. What if the briquettes
are
> burned in a "stove" (container, maybe like the Rocket stove) that is
> slightly larger in diameter than the briquette? For example, place a 4
> inch diameter briquette in a 5 or 6 inch diameter can with air entering in
> the bottom.
>
> As you may recall, in an earlier message I mentioned the need for people
in
> all societies to have a variety of ways to "cook, heat, bake, steam, fry,
> broil, char, toast, etc." Therefore, the people in the developing world
> might need 3 or 4 different types, sizes, compositions of briquettes to
> meet the needs for several different types of fires.
>
> Well, the Rotary Club to which Ed and I belong has accepted to do a
> "briquette" project in southern Africa. With my wife and grown son, I
> leave in 48 hours to South Africa and Mozambique (previously arranged
trip)
> where we will experiment (as a side activity) with introducing the
> briquette process. We are real SMALL operators. We will provide a
report
> to all of you on the stoves list, but it might not be until September
after
> we get back to the USA.
>
> [[[ As an aside: Are any of you who are on the Stoves list-serve also
> members of Rotary Clubs? And if you are not, I encourage you to
consider
> joining. ]]]
>
> Yours in service to those in need,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D., Fulbright Prof. to Mozambique 8/99 - 7/00
> Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
> Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
> E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
>
>
> -
> Stoves List Archives and Website:
> http://www.crest.org/discussion/stoves/current/
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Stoves.html
>
> Stoves List Moderators:
> Ron Larson, ronallarson@qwest.net
> Alex English, english@adan.kingston.net
>
> Sponsor the Stoves List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html
> -
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>
> For information about CHAMBERS STOVES
> http://www.ikweb.com/enuff/public_html/Chamber.htm
>
>

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From tmiles at teleport.com Fri Jun 29 17:57:38 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
In-Reply-To: <200106281524.f5SFOjv06003@smtp2.mts.net>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010629142915.04d88aa0@mail.teleport.com>

Ted,

At the head of this and every Stoves message you will find a linked field
called:
List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>

Just click on the "mailto" (a blank message will
come up addressed to "stoves-subscribe") and send. You will be
unsubscribed.

If for some reason the
"mailto:" does not work
just send email to: stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org

Of the email lists that I have participated in or managed for more than
13 years this is about the easiest that I have seen.

Unfortunately attachments are an easy mechanism for spreading a virus.
But the main reason for not accepting attachments on CREST lists is that
some participants, especially Southern Africa, access the internet at
speeds as low as 9600 bps. We keep email simple to facilitate
communication. That is partly why Alex English maintains a website for
stove related information where pictures and other large files can be
posted.

We will also accept your apologies for your other inappropriate comments.
You pay no fees to participate in the Stoves discussion, nor are you a
list administrator. The Stoves list is managed by volunteers - Ron
Larson, Alex English, Tom Reed and Myself. When we discover technical
problems on the list (we get the same messages and bounces that you do)
we report them to CREST (Tayleah Jones) who works with the Internet
service provider. When I discovered the list problems I reported them to
Tayleah who sorted them out. It is the nature of the Internet that large
problems can happen quickly but sometimes take a while to solve. So we
thank you for your patience as we collectively manage and contribute to
this most useful, interesting and entertaining discussion list on biomass
combustion.

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

At 09:20 AM 6/28/01 -0700, Ted Clayton wrote:
In fact, I was researching the Crest/Solstice
website mainly to find a way to Unsubscribe from the List, and was
alarmed that I could find no such facility provided. That is not
proper.

Failure to acknowledge, much less explain current difficulties
unfortunately exacerbates the problem.

Thank you All,

Ted Clayton
Thomas R
Miles          tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles,
TCI                  Tel
503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way    Fax
503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

From tmiles at teleport.com Fri Jun 29 17:58:45 2001
From: tmiles at teleport.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:56 2004
Subject: FORUM
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010629145619.04d87620@mail.teleport.com>

Ted,

At the head of this and every Stoves message you will find a linked field
called:
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org>

Just click on the "mailto" (a blank message will come up addressed to
"stoves-subscribe") and send. You will be unsubscribed.

If for some reason the "mailto:" does not work just send email to:
stoves-unsubscribe@crest.org

Of the email lists that I have participated in or managed for more than 13
years this is about the easiest that I have seen.

Unfortunately attachments are an easy mechanism for spreading a virus. But
the main reason for not accepting attachments on CREST lists is that some
participants, especially Southern Africa, access the internet at speeds as
low as 9600 bps. We keep email simple to facilitate communication. That is
partly why Alex English maintains a website for stove related information
where pictures and other large files can be posted.

We will also accept your apologies for your other inappropriate comments.
You pay no fees to participate in the Stoves discussion, nor are you a list
administrator. The Stoves list is managed by volunteers - Ron Larson, Alex
English, Tom Reed and Myself. When we discover technical problems on the
list (we get the same messages and bounces that you do) we report them to
CREST (Tayleah Jones) who works with the Internet service provider. When I
discovered the list problems I reported them to Tayleah who sorted them
out. It is the nature of the Internet that large problems can happen
quickly but sometimes take a while to solve. So we thank you for your
patience as we collectively manage and contribute to this most useful,
interesting and entertaining discussion list on biomass combustion.

Regards,

Tom Miles
Bioenergy Lists Administrator

At 09:20 AM 6/28/01 -0700, Ted Clayton wrote:
>In fact, I was researching the Crest/Solstice website mainly to find a way
>to Unsubscribe from the List, and was alarmed that I could find no such
>facility provided. That is not proper.
>
>Failure to acknowledge, much less explain current difficulties
>unfortunately exacerbates the problem.
>
>Thank you All,
>
>Ted Clayton

Thomas R Miles tmiles@trmiles.com
T R Miles, TCI Tel 503-292-0107
1470 SW Woodward Way Fax 503-292-2919
Portland, OR 97225 USA

-
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From elk at wananchi.com Sat Jun 30 02:54:55 2001
From: elk at wananchi.com (elk)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:57 2004
Subject: briquettes with holes
Message-ID: <3B3D7708.00000B.15435@pentium-333>

<TD id=INCREDITEXTREGION style="FONT-FAMILY: Comic Sans MS; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; PADDING-LEFT: 7px; PADDING-RIGHT: 7px"
width="100%">
Our experience here in Nairobi indicates that the larger the
briquette the less breakage there is in transport and the lower the amount
of waste fines.

This is a simply due to the fact that there fewer 'edges' per kilo
with larger briquettes- the edge of a briquette being the area most
susceptible to breakage.

Briquettes with holes have almost double the 'edge distance' that
solid briquettes have, are much more prone to being crushed and would
certainly burn faster due to higher surface area.

I would expect that only an unusually large briquette, stood
vertically in a stove with good ventilation and carefully lit from below
would exhibit any form of chimney effect.

On the positive side, the lower bulk density and novel form of a
briquette with a hole could be marketing advantages.

elk

Elsen Karstad
elk@wananchi.com
www.chardust.com

<SPAN
id=IncrediStamp><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"
size=2>_________________________________________________<FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>IncrediMail - Email has finally
evolved - <FONT
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From rstanley at legacyfound.org Sat Jun 30 04:34:14 2001
From: rstanley at legacyfound.org (Richard Stanley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:57 2004
Subject: Briquettes with holes
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010629093006.00e15930@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <3B3D8E8C.7263333E@legacyfound.org>

Paul,
It seems that from your initial inquiry, you have come a long way.
Here are some other bits of information for the group, which may add to your
insights.
Tom Larson, and others, I'm hoping to capture as much of your inquiry at the
same time but please feel free to probre me where I have missed your concerns.

Holes: The hole has effect only when the radius of the briquette is about
equal to its height.
I have played with surface area to volume ratios but this simple rule of thumb
works quite well. The diameter of the hole is optimal at 1/4 to 1/3 the
diameter of the briquette.

We have indeed played with additional holes and quite rightly, the larger
briquette is more amenable to such multiple hole configurations as Paul has
discerned. In theory at least they should dry much faster if not burn more
thoroughly and ignite more quickly.
The 'hole' snag, as Paul may well find out in SA, is that multihole
configurations are far more difficult to produce in terms of the piston and
mold construction. Additionally, the application of same in a rural
development setting will be a challange. The piston has to move under pressure
while retaining alignment with the now several guide rods, each of which will
have to be seated in corresponding holes in the base plate. That is feat
enough but consider that the producer will usually be making two briquettes at
a time from that one mold. The divider plate has to move freely and the
briquette has to be removed without distortion to allow a good "set" with its
interlocking fibers . We tried this several years ago in Malawi but gave up
after only four months.

As to Tom Larson's concern for pyrolsis migration rates, our study, published
in the American Chemical society's Journal of Chemical Innovation this past
February, identifies two distinct kinds fo heat being generated in the burn
cycle. The first is a rapid rise to 800 centigrade within about 6 to 10
minutes for five to fifteen minutes, with licking convective flames. The
flames then die down to yeild an infrared glow in the core for the remaining
20 to 30 minutes. The briquettes even if exposed to an evenly applied heat
source all around their bottom, will tend to burn from the center out, not
uniformly and not from the outside in.

Carbonisation begins in teh center and ends on the exterior surfaces.

Application of such as Approvecho's Justy or Rocket stove would retain heat
in the combustion chamber and allow for retention long enough to complete
combustion. we have created similar chambers with 1 inch annular spaces . The
effect was to create an induced draft outside the briquette which tended to
augment secondary combustion above the briquette but the burn was still most
intense through the center core. This is only part of the story however.
What needs to be added to either of these stoves or anyone elses for that
matter, would be a direct feed of air from beneath the briquette and a grate
to let the resulting ashes (and there is s considerable production of ash,
relative to charcoal or wood) fall off , retaining open exposure of the
glowing red core to the cooking surface. The attached burning demonstration up
in the Andees a few weeks ago gives you the idea. Also attached is a suggested
modification of stoves to utilise the briquette in teat same region.

Blocking the hole reduced the heat output of the briquette to nothing much
more than a pile of compressed leaves or if you use it sawdust or carbon dust
or whatever you use are a resource. It is nothing like the center core burn
effect, everything else being equal.

It is our and teh technology's godafather, (Ben Bryant's) original and
continuing intent to produce a technology so readily do-able that in the right
location of demand and entrepreneurial capacity, it immediately "ignites"
interest and generates direct income amongst the poorest of the poor.

The basic starter press I detailed to Paul can be paid back in a few weeks of
production. In some areas we encourage the trainers NOT to sell it for cash
but rather set in motion the idea of producing briquettes to pay for the
press. paybeck times are under these circumstances around 6 weeks.
And as the entrepreneur expands and needs higher [produciton capacity, we can
step over to a reciprocating ram, even making it double-acting, with a feed
and sump tank but we have always to think carefully about who will afford it
and how will it be maintained. But I do not mean to imply that we are not
holding back where the demand and capacity exists: In fact newer and far more
productive presses are emerging out of necessity in places like Cusco Peru and
probably in Kangemi Kenya and in the northern province of Haiti later this
year.

Further into the technology still, we are considering a more sophisticated
application for the US household and municipality, ever more laden, as they
appear to be, with junk mail and yard waste but that takes money and a serious
investment group (if anyone is interested !)

A group in Cusco at their San Antonio University, is eager to design the
perfect briquette. The problem is that it is not an issue of greater pressure
(the process of wet slurry dewatering is quite elastic with respect to phase
change. We operate ao 10 to 15 atmospheres. there is nor substantial change in
the density or burning quality at four times this much pressure --although the
capital and operating cost of the required equipment would indeed rise
sharply.

Nor is the quality of the burn defined by an exact ratio of the natural
resources we use, for these change in compostiion substantially according to
teh time they are harvested and teh point at which they are pulled out of the
decomposition cycle--- which is an essential step in preparing the material.
However, the method and principles used in determining the right compostiion
is exact. It is exact but extremely dependent upon the feel for the material.
Sure, the more carbonaceous the material, the greater calorific value, but if
the briquette is spongey or for that matter too tight, it will be less
efficient than well prepared mixtures of your died out garden variety grass
clippings leaves.

Thus far its been all about developing this capacity in the third world. It is
here where that kind of "feel" for agro residue material comes quite
naturally. It is another story to try to train colleagues back home. That is
why I sometime cringe at the notion of someone simply grabbing a press and
running off to train someone else without proper training themselves. Quite
frankly they would do better to go to Particia Ngari, or Nestor Velasquez, or
Seif Salmini, for their own knowledge of their own area, than myself.

Think I will have to lug one of these presses to the Biomass conference this
September. If we accomplish nothing else, we can all make and take home our
winter heating supply out of the left over papers...

Happy 4th to you all

Richard Stanley
Legacy foundation
541 488 1559

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From rstanley at legacyfound.org Sat Jun 30 04:52:26 2001
From: rstanley at legacyfound.org (Richard Stanley)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:57 2004
Subject: Briquettes with holes
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20010629093006.00e15930@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <3B3D92D0.BB251F24@legacyfound.org>

Paul and all stovers (except for corn stover),

Forgot the pictures of the briquettes burnign and stove modifications.
They are jpeg compressed and SMALL.

Richard Stanley
Legacy foundation
541 488 1559
Unknown Document

Unknown Document

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From tmiles at trmiles.com Sat Jun 30 16:19:12 2001
From: tmiles at trmiles.com (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 31 21:36:57 2004
Subject: corn burning stoves
In-Reply-To: <OFC986868D.34E4B300-ON85256A78.00640FE2@rtp.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010630131420.04dac8f0@mail.teleport.com>

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BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

June 2001 Biomass Cooking Stoves Archive