BioEnergy Lists: Improved Biomass Cooking Stoves

From lanny at ROMAN.NET Thu Jul 1 07:32:32 2004
From: lanny at ROMAN.NET (Lanny Henson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: {Spam?} Drum Head Pan cook top and a Newspaper Stove
Message-ID: <THU.1.JUL.2004.073232.0400.LANNY@ROMAN.NET>

Dear Stove Friends,
http://www.lanny.us/hp.html
I was thinking that a large wok would seal to a drum stove body but a pan
that size would be too expensive for the people we are trying to help, so I
built a conical shape pan sort of a griddle wok (Grok) and it seems to
function well. The problem is this pan it requires a welded seam and some
other equipment that may not be available.
For my next attempt at building a cheep pan I heated a drum head and
reshaped it into a shallow 2" deep wok. The result was a drum head wok
shaped pan. I am pleased with this 2nd attempt. The pan is a little thin so
the food has to be moved around to prevent hot spots. I was able to cook 500
gr of ground beef without scorching. One problem that I had was that the
surface was damaged during firing and it took too much work to clean up the
pan. It will take a few more prototypes to develop a practical method.
I fired the pan with forge #1 which did no function well as a forge but
worked great as (a bulky biomass burner) or A Newspaper Stove . I used 20
sheets of newspaper to cook 500 gr of ground beef. The heat is instant. It
sizzles within 30 seconds of lighting the paper.
I am pleased with this cooking system so far. I will cook tortillas next. We
will see! Pardon my grammar.
Lanny

From rmiranda at INET.COM.BR Thu Jul 1 07:14:15 2004
From: rmiranda at INET.COM.BR (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: WHO:"Indoor Air Pollution,
the unfashionable yet huge tragedy of sanitation"
In-Reply-To: <0af201c45ddb$d47d77f0$6401a8c0@TOM>
Message-ID: <THU.1.JUL.2004.081415.0300.RMIRANDA@INET.COM.BR>

The environment: where's the risk, and where are children safe?

WHO publishes first-ever Atlas of Children's Health and the Environment.

23 June 2004 -- WHO today published the first ever atlas on the
environmental risks to children's health. More than three million children
under the age of five die each year, as a result of environmental hazards
such as unsafe water and indoor air.

This atlas tackles issues as diverse as the devastating and largely unknown
impact of indoor air pollution, the unfashionable yet huge tragedy of
sanitation, and complex emerging issues like climate change.

Nearly one million children die each year from diseases caused by air
pollution inside their own homes. Over 75% of households in most Asian and
African countries cook with solid fuels, such as wood, dung, coal or crop
waste, which produce a black smoke that, when inhaled, may give rise to, or
worsen pneumonia and other respiratory infections.

Full-colour maps and graphics clearly demonstrate the threats that children
face everywhere, and underscore the impact of poverty on children's health.
While this crisis cannot be ignored and demands urgent action, success
stories, such as the Montreal Protocol, show a way forward for the world to
make sure that our children will inherit a safer planet and a brighter future.

http://www.who.int/ceh/publications/atlas/en/index.html

http://www.who.int/ceh/publications/en/09indoorsmoke.pdf

Source: http://www.who.int/en/

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Fri Jul 2 08:27:15 2004
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: Server Test
Message-ID: <FRI.2.JUL.2004.052715.0700.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Just testing the server

Tom Miles

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Mon Jul 5 18:50:15 2004
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: High Efficiency LED's (HE-LED's) in action
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUL.2004.005015.0200.>

Dear Iluminated Stovers

I have had some fun this evening taking a break from article writing and
with Simon Mortimore in attendance managed to salvage a NiCad battery
from the ill-fatedToshiba. This battery is a 7.2 volt 110 mAH unit that
presumably keeps the notebook in standby mode while the main battery is
being swapped.

It had an open circuit voltage of 0.05 volts as it has been standing for
several years. I charged it for about 10 minutes using a 12 volt 200mm
power supply which gave me 6.5 volts at a low current.

Connecting a set of 3.5 volt HE-LED's I checked out how well they
illuminate a book. The best colour was green, not red though the green
was 10,000 mcd while the red was 5600. The white one appeared to be
about the same brightness as the green but was far easier to read by.

The voltage while running was 3.2 V.D.C. and the current was 15 to 20
milliamps. This is a power draw of about 0.05 watts.

I carefully tried different combinations of resistor and HE-LED's in
series. They have serious forward voltage resistance and the ones I
have here do not require a resistor if the voltage is low enough. I
have measured a current of 125 mA on the red one (oops) even though the
recommendation given was for 20mA.

The HE-LED's will light up with 3 volts applied but I can't tell you how
low a voltage will turn them on because I don't have a variable power
supply. The light output is given as 6500 mcd at at 20 mA for the white
one and it is good enough to read by for extended periods of time. It
has a bluish center.

Checking it against a single AAA penlight high efficiency bulb show that
the incandescent light was far more orange in colour and about as
bright.

All this leads me to conclude that the way forward to a stove-powered
light is to work on thermocouples for low cost and very low power,
higher voltage TEG's for higher cost. I will have a crack at spot
welding some dissimilar metal wires to see what I get. At least 3 volts
will be required or these things are not going to light up. That means
something like 40 junctions at a minimum up to a more realistic 100 or
200 will be needed. Current is not going to be a problem. The HE-LED's
are lighting up usefully at 5mA.

BTW I put 2 in parallel and as I suspected one goes on and hogs all the
current no matter what I do. I put 4 in series onto the 12 volt adaptor
and they worked well (3 volts each in series). Provided the white ones
are not more expensive (varies with manufacturer) I would recommend
them, otherwise get green.

Regards
Crispin

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Tue Jul 6 04:06:41 2004
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <TUE.6.JUL.2004.100641.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Jeunesse Park from the Small Farm Forestry Newsletter in South Africa
forwarded this.
- Crispin

+++++++++++

From: "Jeunesse Park" <jpark@trees.org.za>

I have just been looking up about a kind of water boiler/kettle, something I
looked it up for a friend of mine who works for the Nepal Forestry
Commission. I came across your site a while ago and thought you might know
someone who could use the info.. (eg as you work in the subsahara)

The storm kettle/kelly kettle is a superefficient kettle designed to use
outdoors, uses much less wood than conventional fires to boil water. The
kettle has the fire (of paper twigs grass etc) in a chimney within the
kettle. website: http://www.eydonkettle.co.uk/ a uk company has made them
since the 1970s, (they were developed in ireland
in 19th century by fishermen/outdoor hunters) maybe they would licence other
companies to make them outside Britain. i believe there is a larger similar
version made in india for household water heating. I've not found out who
makes them.

best wishes with everything
alice quayle,
isle of man, british isles.

The famous Storm Kettle, ideal for picnics. Rapid, safe and sure. Boils
water easily, in the wettest and windiest of weather. The traditional kettle
of West Ireland Fishermen. The western part of Ireland is particularly
remote and the winter nights must be particularly long. In order to while
away the long evenings some of the Irish crofters used to manufacture a
simple water boiler using hand tools.These were normally manufactured in
copper and took them many hours to produce. These water boilers were used in
the summer months to easily and satisfactorily boil tea for the enthusiastic
fishermen who came regularly to Ireland to enjoy the splendid fishing. In
the early 1970's John Grindlay and some colleagues decided that the time had
come when these wonderful water boilers should be manufactured in quantity
so that they could be made available to all fishermen and sportsmen.
Email us here Eydon Kettle; Po Box 50; Daventry; Northants, England, United
Kingdom; NN11 2ZA. ? Copyright 1999 The Eydon Kettle Company. All rights
reserved.

From hotspringfreak at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Jul 7 21:23:13 2004
From: hotspringfreak at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <WED.7.JUL.2004.212313.0400.HOTSPRINGFREAK@HOTMAIL.COM>

The Kelly Kettle has been noted on Stoves before, but it's
time they came round again. There are North American
suppliers, another version and a New Zealand maker of the
same kettle, calling it their "Thermette"). Noting there's an
accessory kit available.

Here's a woodcraft forum's reviews with great pictures, use tips
and links, if you'll indulge me:

http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_index.php?target=%2Fs_article.php%
3Fid_article%3D126

---------------------------------------------

I was going to scatter some supplier URL's but it already been
done so well at this forum, so I quote from there ...

"... One of my favorite tools is the Kelly. I want to add
the larger version this year....if I can stop buying knives
long enough.

I just posted some pictures of mine this morning in Racquette's
place and referenced in the Edged tools.

Great kit really for both trail or home use. I want the
larger version as part of my home kit for power outages,
earthquakes etc.

Great set of pictures. Garrett Wade had the accessory kit
bundled with the kettle last year for a decent price.

http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?
lGen=detail&itemID=106256&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=0&iSubCat=0&iProductID=1
06256

There is a completely different manufacturer also

http://www.eydonkettle.co.uk/History/history.htm

and a similar design for New Zealand

http://www.thermette.com/

Lee Valley and Lehman

http://www.leevalley.com/gifts/page.asp?
page=43901&category=4,104,45478&abspage=2&ccurrency=2&SID=

http://www.lehmans.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?
itemID=3075&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=storm

and a story worth reading to understand the potential for burning
off your finger hair

http://www.rmcangling.co.uk/reviews/pages.phtml?CAT=5&ID=326

and another story

http://www.kingsley-hughes.com/outdoors/kit/kelly.htm "

---------------------------------------------

As for the idea of enlarging kettle kettle's design for
domestic water heating, that was done off-grid during the 60's
in Mexico (manufactured there) with a conventional looking
(but wood fired) water heater that had an inverted cone shaped
burner underneath that Vee'd up into the water tank column above
it to increase heating efficiency and only needed kindling to
allow one to take a shower or bath and wash dishes.

The original water heater I'm aware of was featured in an early
couple of editions of The Whole Earth Catalog, during the 60's,
if anyone has a collection of those like me (old hippies). A
set of current wood fired H2O heater versions are sold at this
URL ...

http://www.mayflowertrading.com/water_heaters.htm

... more useful for their design concept than for purchase
(a trip to a landfill for some could yield a free water
heater for retrofitting with a burn chamber). Sounds like a
powerful application for a something like a Vesto or Rocket
stove, to me. Just a big Kelly Kettle in fact. Crispin, you
are so right!

- Chris Smith

From takeda at SONIC.NET Thu Jul 8 06:54:21 2004
From: takeda at SONIC.NET (Matthew Takeda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
In-Reply-To: <200407080400.i68400P01611@ns1.repp.org>
Message-ID: <THU.8.JUL.2004.035421.0700.TAKEDA@SONIC.NET>

Chris Smith wrote:
>The Kelly Kettle has been noted on Stoves before, but it's
>time they came round again. There are North American
>suppliers, another version and a New Zealand maker of the
>same kettle, calling it their "Thermette"). Noting there's an
>accessory kit available.

I find it interesting that nobody gave a link to
<http://www.kellykettle.com/>, since so many refer to it by the name Kelly
Kettle.

Matthew Takeda
the JOAT

From lanny at ROMAN.NET Fri Jul 9 17:38:21 2004
From: lanny at ROMAN.NET (Lanny Henson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: {Spam?} Re: [STOVES] A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <FRI.9.JUL.2004.173821.0400.LANNY@ROMAN.NET>

I believe that there was another kettle that was of Russian design that also
had an internal chimney. I think it was something like a somnavor?
Lanny Henson

----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew Takeda <takeda@SONIC.NET>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] A kettle that uses much less wood

> Chris Smith wrote:
> >The Kelly Kettle has been noted on Stoves before, but it's
> >time they came round again. There are North American
> >suppliers, another version and a New Zealand maker of the
> >same kettle, calling it their "Thermette"). Noting there's an
> >accessory kit available.
>
> I find it interesting that nobody gave a link to
> <http://www.kellykettle.com/>, since so many refer to it by the name
Kelly
> Kettle.
>
>
> Matthew Takeda
> the JOAT

From hotspringfreak at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Jul 9 02:57:08 2004
From: hotspringfreak at HOTMAIL.COM (Chris Smith)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <FRI.9.JUL.2004.025708.0400.HOTSPRINGFREAK@HOTMAIL.COM>

On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 03:54:21 -0700, Matthew Takeda <takeda@SONIC.NET> wrote:

>Chris Smith wrote:
>>The Kelly Kettle has been noted on Stoves before, but it's
>>time they came round again. There are North American
>>suppliers, another version and a New Zealand maker of the
>>same kettle, calling it their "Thermette"). Noting there's an
>>accessory kit available.
>
>I find it interesting that nobody gave a link to
><http://www.kellykettle.com/>, since so many refer to it by the name
Kelly
>Kettle.
>
>
>Matthew Takeda
>the JOAT

The link at www.kellykettle.com was down at time of posting. Thank you
for pointing out that this URL is still functional.

The Kelly Kettle design as applied to scaled up fuel efficient domestic
water heating (at the village level) is still a great idea, esp. if it can
be done cheaply (scavenged/salvaged water heater tanks). A $600 USD price
tag for wood burning water heaters is ridiculous, considering conventional
water heaters can be had for much less. A case of paying for novelty. No
wonder there's scarcity.

- Chris Smith

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Fri Jul 9 07:56:21 2004
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (tombreed@COMCAST.NET)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <FRI.9.JUL.2004.115621.0000.>

Dear ALL:

The storm kettle, the samovar and my gas hot water heater combine unique principles for water heating/boiling that should be used by all of us.

The principles:

Water is the most heated material during cooking. (Hot oil next most...)

Solid fuels (and gas/liquids) requires a small amount of naturla or forced "draft" to burn intensely and efficiently

A chimney can supply this - but who wants to cook ontop of the chimney?

Water (and oil) can be "wrapped" around the chimney for very efficient heat transfer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Charcoal is an excellent fuel for these devices.

However, either toplit or bottom lit biomass fires tend to produce incompleted pyrolysis gases which are likely to creosote the chimney and reduce heat transfer.

Need a source of secondary air above.

I'm ordering one to tryout in the real world.

TOM REED

> Jeunesse Park from the Small Farm Forestry Newsletter in South Africa
> forwarded this.
> - Crispin
>
> +++++++++++
>
> From: "Jeunesse Park" <jpark@trees.org.za>
>
> I have just been looking up about a kind of water boiler/kettle, something I
> looked it up for a friend of mine who works for the Nepal Forestry
> Commission. I came across your site a while ago and thought you might know
> someone who could use the info.. (eg as you work in the subsahara)
>
> The storm kettle/kelly kettle is a superefficient kettle designed to use
> outdoors, uses much less wood than conventional fires to boil water. The
> kettle has the fire (of paper twigs grass etc) in a chimney within the
> kettle. website: http://www.eydonkettle.co.uk/ a uk company has made them
> since the 1970s, (they were developed in ireland
> in 19th century by fishermen/outdoor hunters) maybe they would licence other
> companies to make them outside Britain. i believe there is a larger similar
> version made in india for household water heating. I've not found out who
> makes them.
>
> best wishes with everything
> alice quayle,
> isle of man, british isles.
>
> The famous Storm Kettle, ideal for picnics. Rapid, safe and sure. Boils
> water easily, in the wettest and windiest of weather. The traditional kettle
> of West Ireland Fishermen. The western part of Ireland is particularly
> remote and the winter nights must be particularly long. In order to while
> away the long evenings some of the Irish crofters used to manufacture a
> simple water boiler using hand tools.These were normally manufactured in
> copper and took them many hours to produce. These water boilers were used in
> the summer months to easily and satisfactorily boil tea for the enthusiastic
> fishermen who came regularly to Ireland to enjoy the splendid fishing. In
> the early 1970's John Grindlay and some colleagues decided that the time had
> come when these wonderful water boilers should be manufactured in quantity
> so that they could be made available to all fishermen and sportsmen.
> Email us here Eydon Kettle; Po Box 50; Daventry; Northants, England, United
> Kingdom; NN11 2ZA. © Copyright 1999 The Eydon Kettle Company. All rights
> reserved.

From takeda at SONIC.NET Sat Jul 10 03:10:26 2004
From: takeda at SONIC.NET (Matthew Takeda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: {Spam?} Re: [STOVES] A kettle that uses much less wood
In-Reply-To: <200407090400.i69400P26329@ns1.repp.org>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.JUL.2004.001026.0700.TAKEDA@SONIC.NET>

Are you saying that you think I'm a spammer?

Lanny Henson wrote:
>I believe that there was another kettle that was of Russian design that also
>had an internal chimney. I think it was something like a somnavor?

Samovar. Originally charcoal-fired, althought there are now electric ones,
and they do have a chimney up the middle. The main body holds hot water for
tea, while a small teapot filled with tea concentrate sits on top. To
serve, you pour a little tea concentrate in your cup and then dilute with
hot water drawn from a spigot on the side.

Here are some antique examples:
<http://www.russianlegacy.com/en/go_to/shopping/img/samovars_antique_01.htm>
<http://www.therussianshop.com/russhop/samovar/specialsam.htm>

Matthew Takeda
the JOAT

From takeda at SONIC.NET Sat Jul 10 03:15:10 2004
From: takeda at SONIC.NET (Matthew Takeda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <SAT.10.JUL.2004.001510.0700.TAKEDA@SONIC.NET>

Chris Smith wrote:
>The link at www.kellykettle.com was down at time of posting. Thank you
>for pointing out that this URL is still functional.

Ah. I just happened to know it was working because I bought one last year.

Matthew Takeda
the JOAT

From ajh at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Sat Jul 10 06:14:17 2004
From: ajh at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <SAT.10.JUL.2004.061417.0400.AJH@SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK>

I have resorted to posting from the REPP website as I think there is a
problem with my outgoing e-mail, apologies if you receive this message
twice.

 

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:10:26 -0700, Matthew Takeda wrote:

 

>Are you saying that you think I'm a spammer?

 

No worries, it wasn't spam as it contained links relevant to the topic

(I had posted the same link to Kelly some while back), albeit of a

commercial nature. I suspect the query (Lanny used a ?) put was

whether we should be promoting commercial designs. It's a trade off

and most list members will be able to make their own judgement and

appreciate the commercial link provides illustration of our

discussion. After all a "a picture is worth a thousand words".

 

>Samovar. Originally charcoal-fired, althought there are now electric ones,

>and they do have a chimney up the middle. The main body holds hot water for

>tea, while a small teapot filled with tea concentrate sits on top. To

>serve, you pour a little tea concentrate in your cup and then dilute with

>hot water drawn from a spigot on the side.

>

>Here are some antique examples:

><http://www.russianlegacy.com/en/go_to/shopping/img/samovars_antique_01.htm
>

><http://www.therussianshop.com/russhop/samovar/specialsam.htm>

 

Interesting to see these designs, it demonstrates a different approach

to the tea making we had in UK, influenced by our tea introduction

from India. In these examples we see the water being kept hot over a

period and a tea concentrate added. In UK we have the habit of boiling

sufficient water for a "pot" of tea, which is subsequently "mashed" in

the boiled water and poured soon after. The upshot of this is that

when electricity became available there was a trend to powerful, high

speed kettles in which to boil the water. I have traveled very little

but did note these appliances were not used in USA, indeed I suspect

their high power (3kW is not unusual) does not fit well with sockets

<240V.

 

AJH

From ajh at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Sat Jul 10 07:01:12 2004
From: ajh at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <SAT.10.JUL.2004.070112.0400.AJH@SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK>

Again I am repeating a message via the REPP web interface ( a function I
have only just discovered amongst the many features provided by REPP)

 

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:56:21 +0000, tombreed@COMCAST.NET wrote:

 

>

>However, either toplit or bottom lit biomass fires tend to produce
incompleted pyrolysis gases which are likely to creosote the chimney and
reduce heat transfer.

>

>Need a source of secondary air above.

 

This implies the kettle/chimney is forming part of the combustion

chamber, in fact it needs to be placed above the flame and after all

combustion is completed, else just like when a cold spoon is lowered

onto a candle flame the flame is quenched.

 

The combustion pot as supplied with the kelly kettle is not at all

optimal (in effect it is a rudimentary elbow similar to a

foreshortened Rocket stove), however if the kelly kettle is placed

above the combustion chamber of an idd stove it is effective and

clean. The trouble with this is it makes a tall, and thus a

potentially unstable stove. My efforts with the idd stove were

initially to reduce the height as far as possible, which tended to

mean used of forced draught to change the flame path and increase

mixing. One of the side effects of this was the vortex produced

continued into the kelly kettle and effectively lessened heat transfer

to the kettle.

 

I wonder about fitting a loose helix into the central cavity to

increase heat transfer.

 

AJH

From lanny at ROMAN.NET Sun Jul 11 13:34:31 2004
From: lanny at ROMAN.NET (Lanny Henson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: {Spam?} Re: [STOVES] A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <SUN.11.JUL.2004.133431.0400.LANNY@ROMAN.NET>

Mathew and other stove friends,
Please accept my apology. My ISP sometimes adds (spam?) to the beginning of
the subject line of incoming mail but not usually to outgoing. They are
just down the road and it has been a while since I have barbecued for them.
Maybe they are trying to tell me something!
The internal chimney must be efficient like Tom Reed said, they are use in
modern gas hot water heaters that have high efficiency.
One problem that I see is that there may be an access problem for cleaning.
Another problem is that in the construction there are seams to weld.
I have been thinking about building one from a drum, would that be a
Drumovar ? :-)

I will attempt to cook tortillas in/on the Drum Head Pan this weekend.
http://www.lanny.us/hp.html . I plan to fire the pan with my Bulky Biomass
Stove #1, burning pine straw and newspaper in cartages.
http://www.lanny.us/ . We will see!
BTW thanks Andrew for giving your time to moderate this list, good job!
there has been a lot of interesting conversation here.
Lanny

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Heggie <ajh@SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] A kettle that uses much less wood

> I have resorted to posting from the REPP website as I think there is a
> problem with my outgoing e-mail, apologies if you receive this message
> twice.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:10:26 -0700, Matthew Takeda wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> No worries, it wasn't spam as it contained links relevant to the topic
>
>
> (I had posted the same link to Kelly some while back), albeit of a
>
>
> commercial nature. I suspect the query (Lanny used a ?) put was
>
>
> whether we should be promoting commercial designs. It's a trade off
>
>
> and most list members will be able to make their own judgement and
>
>
> appreciate the commercial link provides illustration of our
>
>
> discussion. After all a "a picture is worth a thousand words".
>
>
>
>
> >Samovar. Originally charcoal-fired, althought there are now electric
ones,
>
>
> >and they do have a chimney up the middle. The main body holds hot water
for
>
>
> >tea, while a small teapot filled with tea concentrate sits on top. To
>
>
> >serve, you pour a little tea concentrate in your cup and then dilute with
>
>
> >hot water drawn from a spigot on the side.
>
>
> >
>
>
> >Here are some antique examples:
>
>
>
><http://www.russianlegacy.com/en/go_to/shopping/img/samovars_antique_01.htm
> >
>
>
> ><http://www.therussianshop.com/russhop/samovar/specialsam.htm>
>
>
>
>
> Interesting to see these designs, it demonstrates a different approach
>
>
> to the tea making we had in UK, influenced by our tea introduction
>
>
> from India. In these examples we see the water being kept hot over a
>
>
> period and a tea concentrate added. In UK we have the habit of boiling
>
>
> sufficient water for a "pot" of tea, which is subsequently "mashed" in
>
>
> the boiled water and poured soon after. The upshot of this is that
>
>
> when electricity became available there was a trend to powerful, high
>
>
> speed kettles in which to boil the water. I have traveled very little
>
>
> but did note these appliances were not used in USA, indeed I suspect
>
>
> their high power (3kW is not unusual) does not fit well with sockets
>
>
> <240V.
>
>
>
>
> AJH

From sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Jul 11 05:56:14 2004
From: sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM (Sushim Amatya)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: Research on high hill metal cooking stoves in Nepal via STARIC/N.
Message-ID: <SUN.11.JUL.2004.055614.0400.SUSHIM45@HOTMAIL.COM>

I had once posted a message earlier which mentioned that, STARIC/N (
Sustainable Technology ? Adaptive Research and Implementation Center,
Nepal) is doing a research on improved wood burning metal cook stoves
which shall be designed for the high hill regions of our country, Nepal.

I have a few queries I would like to put forward to the discussion group:

1. We have designed a combustion chamber, which uses reflective sheets
for better combustion. We were thinking of fabricating these inner
reflective sheets of the combustion chamber using plain G.I. sheet of 0.6mm
thickness, but we doubt if that material is going to last long and resist
the high thermal stresses. Could you please suggest me which material will
be the best in order to use it as an inner reflective sheets inside the
combustion chamber.

2. We also designed the chimney and the mouthpiece for the stove.
After a week of testing we figured out that the air flow inside the
combustion chamber was not enough, and we doubt that there is no sufficient
draught to support the air flow balance. Could you please suggest me if it
would be a wise idea to increase the height of the chimney to increase the
draught or, is it better to just increase the mouthpiece area.

From takeda at SONIC.NET Mon Jul 12 06:13:01 2004
From: takeda at SONIC.NET (Matthew Takeda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
Message-ID: <MON.12.JUL.2004.031301.0700.TAKEDA@SONIC.NET>

Andrew Heggie wrote:
>... The upshot of this is that
>when electricity became available there was a trend to powerful, high
>speed kettles in which to boil the water. I have traveled very little
>but did note these appliances were not used in USA, indeed I suspect
>their high power (3kW is not unusual) does not fit well with sockets
><240V.

Not at all, in fact I have one that works fine on 120V. I first saw them in
Ireland and set out to find one as soon as I got back to the US. I bought
mine in Canada, as they weren't available here at the time, but have
noticed several models in the appliance sections of local stores over the
past couple of years. I suspect the slow adoption here is more a reflection
of the fact that tea isn't as popular here. Outside of my home, I often
can't find a good cup of tea at all. I can't tell you how many times I've
ordered tea in restaurants (even quite nice ones) and been presented with a
bag of horrid herbal junk and a cup of tepid water.

Matthew Takeda
the JOAT

From staywarm at TEMPCAST.COM Tue Jul 13 14:46:33 2004
From: staywarm at TEMPCAST.COM (JLaGamba)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:17 2004
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <TUE.13.JUL.2004.144633.0400.STAYWARM@TEMPCAST.COM>

Please remove me from your subscription list.

thanks
John Lagamba
staywarm@tempcast.com

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Fri Jul 9 08:59:31 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
In-Reply-To: <070920041156.1656.40EE87E5000068920000067822007358340B0A0A9D0D03019B@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.9.JUL.2004.135931.0100.>

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 11:56:21 +0000, tombreed@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>
>However, either toplit or bottom lit biomass fires tend to produce incompleted pyrolysis gases which are likely to creosote the chimney and reduce heat transfer.
>
>Need a source of secondary air above.

This implies the kettle/chimney is forming part of the combustion
chamber, in fact it needs to be placed above the flame and after all
combustion is completed, else just like when a cold spoon is lowered
onto a candle flame the flame is quenched.

The combustion pot as supplied with the kelly kettle is not at all
optimal (in effect it is a rudimentary elbow similar to a
foreshortened Rocket stove), however if the kelly kettle is placed
above the combustion chamber of an idd stove it is effective and
clean. The trouble with this is it makes a tall, and thus a
potentially unstable stove. My efforts with the idd stove were
initially to reduce the height as far as possible, which tended to
mean used of forced draught to change the flame path and increase
mixing. One of the side effects of this was the vortex produced
continued into the kelly kettle and effectively lessened heat transfer
to the kettle.

I wonder about fitting a loose helix into the central cavity to
increase heat transfer.

AJH

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Sat Jul 10 05:48:01 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040709231934.02ee18f0@pop.sonic.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.10.JUL.2004.104801.0100.>

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 00:10:26 -0700, Matthew Takeda wrote:

>Are you saying that you think I'm a spammer?

No worries, it wasn't spam as it contained links relevant to the topic
(I had posted the same link to Kelly some while back), albeit of a
commercial nature. I suspect the query (Lanny used a ?) put was
whether we should be promoting commercial designs. It's a trade off
and most list members will be able to make their own judgement and
appreciate the commercial link provides illustration of our
discussion. After all a "a picture is worth a thousand words".

>Samovar. Originally charcoal-fired, althought there are now electric ones,
>and they do have a chimney up the middle. The main body holds hot water for
>tea, while a small teapot filled with tea concentrate sits on top. To
>serve, you pour a little tea concentrate in your cup and then dilute with
>hot water drawn from a spigot on the side.
>
>Here are some antique examples:
><http://www.russianlegacy.com/en/go_to/shopping/img/samovars_antique_01.htm>
><http://www.therussianshop.com/russhop/samovar/specialsam.htm>

Interesting to see these designs, it demonstrates a different approach
to the tea making we had in UK, influenced by our tea introduction
from India. In these examples we see the water being kept hot over a
period and a tea concentrate added. In UK we have the habit of boiling
sufficient water for a "pot" of tea, which is subsequently "mashed" in
the boiled water and poured soon after. The upshot of this is that
when electricity became available there was a trend to powerful, high
speed kettles in which to boil the water. I have traveled very little
but did note these appliances were not used in USA, indeed I suspect
their high power (3kW is not unusual) does not fit well with sockets
<240V.

AJH

From ajh at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Thu Jul 15 13:53:30 2004
From: ajh at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (AJH)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Research on high hill metal cooking stoves in Nepal via
STARIC/N.
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%2004071105561411@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Message-ID: <THU.15.JUL.2004.185330.0100.AJH@SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK>

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:56:14 -0400, Sushim Amatya wrote:

>I have a few queries I would like to put forward to the discussion group:

Sushim,

It looks like there was a bit of a glitch with the server when you
posted, hence no replies yet. It may take a while before we are firing
on all cylinders again.
>
>
>1. We have designed a combustion chamber, which uses reflective sheets
>for better combustion. We were thinking of fabricating these inner
>reflective sheets of the combustion chamber using plain G.I. sheet of 0.6mm
>thickness, but we doubt if that material is going to last long and resist
>the high thermal stresses. Could you please suggest me which material will
>be the best in order to use it as an inner reflective sheets inside the
>combustion chamber.

Crispin has mentioned a chromium steel which is durable, weldable and
reasonably priced. I wonder if the reflectivity will last on any metal
surface once the ash and oxides build up on it, maybe cheaper to
protect it with a refractory wash?
>
>2. We also designed the chimney and the mouthpiece for the stove.
>After a week of testing we figured out that the air flow inside the
>combustion chamber was not enough, and we doubt that there is no sufficient
>draught to support the air flow balance. Could you please suggest me if it
>would be a wise idea to increase the height of the chimney to increase the
>draught or, is it better to just increase the mouthpiece area.

I would say not only increase the chimney height but insulate it if
you need to increase draught, plus make sure it is sealed at any
joints.

AJH

From jmdavies at TELKOMSA.NET Thu Jul 15 16:15:58 2004
From: jmdavies at TELKOMSA.NET (John Davies)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Research on high hill metal cooking stoves in Nepal via
STARIC/N.
Message-ID: <THU.15.JUL.2004.221558.0200.JMDAVIES@TELKOMSA.NET>

Hi here follows; some experiences relative to your questions.

> >I have a few queries I would like to put forward to the discussion group:

> >1. We have designed a combustion chamber, which uses reflective sheets
> >for better combustion. We were thinking of fabricating these inner
> >reflective sheets of the combustion chamber using plain G.I. sheet of
0.6mm
> >thickness, but we doubt if that material is going to last long and resist
> >the high thermal stresses. Could you please suggest me which material
will
> >be the best in order to use it as an inner reflective sheets inside the
> >combustion chamber.

GI sheet of 0.5mm lasted 5 months in my prototype coal stove. Found the
combustion tube cracked one day when emptying the ash. It looked fine but
broke like a dried out egg shell. Next step will be to use chrome steel
3Cr12, the data sheet gives a sustained temperature ability of 650 C and
durability up to 750 for short periods.

> >2. We also designed the chimney and the mouthpiece for the stove.
> >After a week of testing we figured out that the air flow inside the
> >combustion chamber was not enough, and we doubt that there is no
sufficient
> >draught to support the air flow balance. Could you please suggest me if
it
> >would be a wise idea to increase the height of the chimney to increase
the
> >draught or, is it better to just increase the mouthpiece area.

I would go with increasing the chimney suction, this will keep a negative
pressure in the stove which will avert gas leakage from the stove. My stove
achieved the correct secondary combustion with a 75 mm chimney when the
height was 2.6 meters. An interesting fact is that the GI chimney radiates
little heat where it has retained the polished finish ( vertical sections ),
but quite a lot at the bottom where the coating has burned to a matt finish.

When there is a horizontal component in the chimney, the height has to be
increased by approximately the length of the horizontal component. The
horizontal component also has a very much larger radiation loss than the
vertical section, and must be insulated.

Hope this helps,
John Davies.

From dstill at EPUD.NET Fri Jul 16 00:25:41 2004
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: ETHOS STOVE SUMMER CAMP AUG.20 -23
Message-ID: <THU.15.JUL.2004.212541.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Friends,

Here is a quick update on the Stove Summer Camp at Aprovecho Research Center
near Eugene, Oregon. Dr. Mark Bryden, Dr. Bryan Willson will be attending,
also Dr. Tami Bond. Bryan is bringing Sachin Joshi (Chandra Joshi's son) and
possibly Dan Mastbergen. Dan is a crackerjack student he has recruited back
to begin his PhD on the topic of "Power Production from Small Cookstoves".
Larry and Bryan and Dan will be working on electrical generation from wood
burning stoves. Victor Berrueta from GIRA in Mexico was awarded a
scholarship and will be explaining the Patsari stove, etc.

We are planning to have the fancy emission equipment working to look at the
VESTO, Paul Anderson's charcoal making stove, the Tom Reed stove, etc. Bring
your best stove!

The wonderful Fiorella Ceruti with the World Food Program in Rome is sending
us samples of the metal containers they use for us to chop up into the
world's best refugee stoves.

We will be building prototype institutional sized stoves for WFP, as well.

And building a Peter Scott plancha style bread oven that uses one kilo of
wood to bake 5 kilos of bread!

Please reserve your space as soon as possible. Camping, rooms, hotels
available.

COST: ZERO to $800 depending on ability to pay

Free donuts and hot strong coffee every morning.

Sailing in the afternoon on my centerboard English yawl.

Best,

Dean

From dstill at EPUD.NET Fri Jul 16 23:56:17 2004
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <FRI.16.JUL.2004.205617.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Stovers:

We are about to begin testing stoves at the Aprovecho lab. Here is the list
of the stoves we plan to study. Results will be compiled in a booklet called
"A Comparative Guide to Cook Stoves". Thanks to Shell Foundation, Murdock
Foundation and the USEPA for assistance!

We will be looking at:

A.) Emissions under a hood (Grant Ballard-Tremeer)
B.) Emissions in a test kitchen (ITDG)
C.) Fuel Use at High/Low Power, Firepower, Turn Down Ratio (UCB/Shell
2004)

We hope to hand out the results to everyone at the ETHOS meeting in Seattle
in early February. And we'll post them too, of course.

Open for comments, suggestions!

Best,

Dean

1.) Methanol Stove CICCI
2.) LPG Stove (needed)
3.) Kerosene Stove GHANA
4.) Tom Reed "Turbo" Stove USA
5.) Paul Anderson Charcoal Making Stove USA
6.) Vesto Stove SOUTH AFRICA
7.) Charcoal Burning Sheet Metal MALI
8.) Charcoal Burning Ceramic GHANA
9.) Charcoal Traditional GHANA
10.) Nixtomal Stove GUATEMALA
11.) Onil Stove GUATEMALA
12.) Six Brick Rocket USA
13.) Justa Stove HONDURAS
14.) ARTI Stove INDIA
15.) Patsari Stove MEXICO
16.) Baldwin VITA Stove AFRICA
17.) Uganda prototype (Two Submerged Pots) UGANDA

From rmiranda at INET.COM.BR Sat Jul 17 12:18:59 2004
From: rmiranda at INET.COM.BR (Rogerio Carneiro de Miranda)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: [ethos]
In-Reply-To: <20040717035617.634CC82@telchar.epud.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.17.JUL.2004.131859.0300.RMIRANDA@INET.COM.BR>

Dean, great..

But, what about the Ecostove in Nicaragua or here in Brazil
(www.ecofogao.com.br) .... Although the same concept of the Justa stove,
but slighthly different the way they are built, different insulation,
gaskets, griddle material, chimney diameter. For instance now in Brazil we
have the Eco-oven which includes cooking griddle, baking oven and
serpentine for hot water. Peter our Dayton volunteer can tell you more
about it (kleinhpr@notes.udayton.edu).

regards

rogerio

 

At 00:56 17/7/2004, Dean Still wrote:
>Dear Stovers:
>
>We are about to begin testing stoves at the Aprovecho lab. Here is the list
>of the stoves we plan to study. Results will be compiled in a booklet called
>"A Comparative Guide to Cook Stoves". Thanks to Shell Foundation, Murdock
>Foundation and the USEPA for assistance!
>
>We will be looking at:
>
>A.) Emissions under a hood (Grant Ballard-Tremeer)
>B.) Emissions in a test kitchen (ITDG)
>C.) Fuel Use at High/Low Power, Firepower, Turn Down Ratio (UCB/Shell
>2004)
>
>We hope to hand out the results to everyone at the ETHOS meeting in Seattle
>in early February. And we'll post them too, of course.
>
>Open for comments, suggestions!
>
>Best,
>
>Dean
>
>1.) Methanol Stove CICCI
>2.) LPG Stove (needed)
>3.) Kerosene Stove GHANA
>4.) Tom Reed "Turbo" Stove USA
>5.) Paul Anderson Charcoal Making Stove USA
>6.) Vesto Stove SOUTH AFRICA
>7.) Charcoal Burning Sheet Metal MALI
>8.) Charcoal Burning Ceramic GHANA
>9.) Charcoal Traditional GHANA
>10.) Nixtomal Stove GUATEMALA
>11.) Onil Stove GUATEMALA
>12.) Six Brick Rocket USA
>13.) Justa Stove HONDURAS
>14.) ARTI Stove INDIA
>15.) Patsari Stove MEXICO
>16.) Baldwin VITA Stove AFRICA
>17.) Uganda prototype (Two Submerged Pots) UGANDA
>
>
>---
>To unsubscribe, send email to majormail@vrac.iastate.edu with
>this as the first line in the BODY of the message: unsubscribe ethos
>---

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Sat Jul 17 19:25:43 2004
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Research on high hill metal cooking stoves in Nepal via STARIC/N.
Message-ID: <SUN.18.JUL.2004.012543.0200.>

Dear Stovers

John D mentioned:
>GI sheet of 0.5mm lasted 5 months in my prototype
>coal stove. Found the combustion tube cracked
>one day when emptying the ash. It looked fine but
>broke like a dried out egg shell. Next step will be to
>use chrome steel 3Cr12, the data sheet gives a
>sustained temperature ability of 650 C and
>durability up to 750 for short periods.

Steel with no protection from the infiltration of carbon gas will
accumulate carbon from the coal gas (and wood) in the surface and harden
progressively, eventually cracking to pieces. It is a form of case
hardening and because the sheet is so thin, it case hardens right
through. There are two ways around it that I know of: use stainless
steel which is quite resistant to the penetration of carbon gas even at
1000 deg C, or use cast iron which already has a lot of carbon in it,
and when heated loses about as much as it gains.

3CR12 has an interesting chemistry and is not really 'stainless' as it
is formulated primarily as an abrasion resistant steel. The small
amount of titanium in it 'catches' some of the leftover contaminants and
allows a final formulation with interesting properties including
strength, rigidity, abrasion resistance and low cost. When heated high
enough things start to fall apart and corrosion starts because there
isn't enough chrome on the surface to prevent it. 3CR12 can be hardened
and tends to be brittle around welds if the rod is not correct (SS309
rods).

I have discovered that SS 409, which is what catalytic converters are
made of, is both slightly cheaper and has a slightly higher temperature
resistance. I learned this from Colin Barnes, the 3CR12 sales manager
at Columbus Steel 082-806-4817. It is also available in thin sheets.

Asking around the scrap dealers you can find strips and sheets of 409 in
0.4 and 0.5mm. It is also used to make automotive exhaust tubing. It
seems to come in 'as rolled' finish which is about a '2B' - reflective
but not polished.

John, if you want a couple of sheets to fiddle with I have some 2.8
metre x 312mm sheets of 0.4mm 409 at Larcol, 449 Bergvlei St Wadeville
011-902-3275. I had to buy 780 kg in a single coil. You can buy a
couple if you want for R33.50 each. Give the money to Leon. Some of
them are 2.9 metres long - I need those.

You can get low priced galvanized chimney pipes and elbows from Brian at
Rainwater Products rainwg@mweb.co.za in Limpopo: R15.50 for 900mm of 75
diameter galv pipe (not 76.2mm). [R15.50 is $2.60.]

Best regards
Crispin

From sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Jul 20 06:44:30 2004
From: sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM (Sushim Amatya)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Research on high hill metal cooking stoves in Nepal
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUL.2004.064430.0400.SUSHIM45@HOTMAIL.COM>

Well, 3cr12 sheet- doubt it if we can find that in Nepal. We get stainless
steel sheets. but they are too expensive. I would appreciate if someone can
help me with providing the literature on designing a rocket stove - the
principles and calculations.

Regarding the chimney we are going for the galvanized sheets coz its going
to be cheap to buy and transport!!

From sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Jul 20 07:18:25 2004
From: sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM (Sushim Amatya)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: ETHOS STOVE SUMMER CAMP AUG.20 -23
Message-ID: <TUE.20.JUL.2004.071825.0400.SUSHIM45@HOTMAIL.COM>

Hi Dean,

Sushim and I were just designing this metal stove for Dolpa and Sagarmatha
(really cold places) We are using rocket stove principle for this. The idea
is like this :

a) have a combustion chamber similar to a rocket stove - with reflective
sheet inside - made out of something cheap and durable!!
b) make pot rings with fins so as to increase the heat transfer to the
pots - its moroeve like a half spherical basket with fins as rings!!
c) the flue gas then moves onto the secondary pot hole and out of the
chimney

People in mountainour areas really like to see the flame.So, we are
thinking of introducing this high temperature silica glass ( out of thrown
away oven) in the stove so that the user can see the flame inside . I
believe this will also solve the problem of lighting to an extent. however,
I will have to make a compromise with the insulation around the combustion
chamber. Any suggestion??

any idea if someone else has worked on similar area??

Sachin

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Thu Jul 22 15:15:21 2004
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: For combustion chambers: Ceramicrete
In-Reply-To: <40F9A006.3000108@renewableplanet.ca>
Message-ID: <THU.22.JUL.2004.141521.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Stovers,

On the Gasification List Serve, the message below was given.

The question I have: Could this stuff (or some other "new" material) be
used to make combustion chambers at low cost and long lasting.

What do the potters in our group have to say about alternative materials?

Paul

At 05:54 PM 7/17/04 -0400, Matthew Pottinger wrote:
> *Successful 'Ceramicrete' goes international*
>
>"Ceramicrete," a new material developed at Argonne to solidify
>radioactive and hazardous waste for safe disposal, has been licensed to
>Wangtec, Inc. of Woodridge, Ill. The firm is expected to use the new
>product overseas to package hazardous waste for disposal.
>
>Ceramicrete sets harder than concrete and binds quickly to almost
>anything. Ceramicrete is made by combining metal oxides and soluble
>phosphate powders, like those used in detergents and fertilizers, with
>water.
>
>These ingredients are abundant in nature and react quickly at room
>temperature to form a ceramic that is similar in composition to dental
>cement.
>
>No toxic emissions are generated in the process.
>
>Solid wastes may be mixed with the binder powders and water, while
>liquid wastes such as sludge may be used to provide the water needed for
>the reaction. When the reaction occurs, the ingredients form a thick
>slurry that can be poured into storage drums, where it sets to form a
>hard, dense and nonleachable ceramic waste form.
>
>"Ceramicrete is effective in solidifying various waste streams,
>including ash from municipal solid waste incinerators, fossil-fueled
>power plants, hazardous waste incinerators and steel mills, as well as
>nuclear power plant waste," said Arun Wagh (ET), one of the Argonne
>researchers who developed Ceramicrete. "Ash improves Ceramicrete's
>structural properties and reduces its production costs."

http://www.techtransfer.anl.gov/working/pdfs/ceramicrete4-7-03.pdf

 

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072

From dstill at EPUD.NET Fri Jul 23 01:03:17 2004
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: ETHOS Stoves Summer Camp 2004 Schedule
Message-ID: <THU.22.JUL.2004.220317.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Stovers,

Here is a somewhat flexible schedule for the upcoming Stove Summer Camp
August 20 to 23 at Aprovecho near Eugene, Oregon... Drs. Bryan Willson, Tami
Bond, Mark Bryden, Larry Winiarski, lots of graduate students and stovers
from Africa, Mexico and Nepal are currently signed up to attend. Hope to see
you as well!

Best,

Dean

August 20

9am Welcome (donuts & coffee)Pick up readings
10am Group discussion: "What Do We Agree Improves Cookstoves?"
11:30 Introduce Wood Food Program tincanium: split into design groups
12pm Lunch
1pm Groups create prototype refugee stoves for WFP
3pm Begin testing prototypes using revised CCT/emissions hood

August 21
8am Donuts/coffee
9:30 Finish testing
11am "What Did We Learn?"
12pm Lunch
1pm Split into four groups to address following:
A.) Making electricity from wood burning stoves (Lead: Winiarski and
Willson)
B.) How can CO/PM be measured in a test kitchen? (Lead: Bond and
Berrick)
C.) Test/modify fuel efficient bread oven (Lead: Bryden and Hatfield)
D.) Test/modify fuel efficient Patsari stove (Lead: Berrueta and Still)
5pm Groups report

August 22
8am Donuts and coffee
9am -11:30pm Groups work on projects (report at 11:30)
12pm Lunch
1pm Free individuals begin emission testing of Vesto, Paul Anderson, Tom
Reed, Rocket stoves
Begin building institutional stoves (200 litre pots) for WFP
5pm Report progress

August 23
8am Donuts and coffee
9am "Where are we and how to best use last day?"
Groups continue work
12pm Lunch
1pm Groups present progress, light and display stoves
3pm "What will we accomplish before ETHOS annual meeting in February?"
5pm donuts and coffee, group votes and awards ETHOS best progress medal

From Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP Fri Jul 23 14:04:04 2004
From: Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP (Kanchan Rai)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUL.2004.234904.0545.KANCHAN@KU.EDU.NP>

Dear stovers'
I have just completed my webpage on stove, especially for the mountain
areas of Nepal. Still webpage is rough and needs modifications as well.
I spend hours in designing my webpage. Please go through the web site
you can explore the very rural world in the western part of Nepal called
Jumla, Humla with lots of pictures. Also you will know about KU work in
stoves.

I tried to put some theories related to stove combustion with online
calculations. There are details on my ku stoves with
animations. There are several other things I am still working on which
is under construction and will be available soon. My works will be
updated periodically. Please donot forget to give comments and
suggestions when you leave the website.

looking forward for your suggestions and comments

my website is

www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan

kanchan

From stoves at ECOHARMONY.COM Fri Jul 23 05:22:00 2004
From: stoves at ECOHARMONY.COM (Grant Ballard-Tremeer)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: ARTI videos in compressed avi format
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUL.2004.102200.0100.GRANT@ECOHARMONY.COM>

Dear Stovers

As Andrew Heggie reported some weeks ago, he transferred the two video
files to me via FTP (taking many hours of high-speed transfer - thanks
Andrew!). I have since converted and compressed them so that the files
are now more than 10 times smaller and picture quality and size
reasonable (although certainly not as good as the original). These,
with Dr Karve's permission, are available to download at:

www.hedon.info/goto.php/ARTI

Click on the 'Videos' link in the table of contents to jump directly
to the download links. At about 15MB for the sugar-cane charcoal
briquette video and 23MB for the bamboo video, the downloads are still
not easily accessible unless you have high-speed broadband access (at
normal dial-up access speeds you will take over an hour to download
each video, but less than 5 minutes on a reasonable ADSL line).

Tom - maybe these two files could also be placed on the 'stoves'
website?

Regards
Grant

PS. The format is DIV-X (.avi) which most of you should be able to
play without any extra codecs, but on older systems some may need to
download some extra drivers. //G

--
Grant Ballard-Tremeer PhD, CEng MIMechE, MEI
Visit Eco on the web at http://ecoharmony.com
HEDON Household Energy Network http://hedon.info
SPARKNET Knowledge Network http://sparknet.info
Partners for Africa http://partners4africa.org
Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
About me: http://hedon.info/goto.php/User:GrantBallard-Tremeer
-------------------

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Fri Jul 23 10:17:14 2004
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUL.2004.081714.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Stovers:
I thought I could get by with a quick skim of Kanchan's site - but just
spend an hour there. He has done a really fine job of explaining many
fundamental principles. I could not open the page on his experimental
results - so will go back and hope to see some comparisons with theory.

He has a three hole burner with parallel rather than series use of the
hot gases. I remember seeing a proof of the validity of this in something
from Eindhoven and hope we can hear more on this fundamental issue.

Kanchan also seem to have a closed fuel tray and rather complete control
of air. I am looking forward to a comparison of results with a Rocket
version he has also been developing which I presume will not have air
control.

He has some video graphics that are very professional - but my computer
is so slow I have to go find another way to view these.

This is a web site that all stovers should pay attention to and try to
critique (as he has requested). Is there anything as (potentially) thorough
in the world of stoves?

Kanchan - nice work!

Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kanchan Rai" <Kanchan@KU.EDU.NP>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:04 PM
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves

> ---------------------- Information from the mail
header -----------------------
> Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Poster: Kanchan Rai <Kanchan@KU.EDU.NP>
> Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
> Dear stovers'
> I have just completed my webpage on stove, especially for the mountain
> areas of Nepal. Still webpage is rough and needs modifications as well.
> I spend hours in designing my webpage. Please go through the web site
> you can explore the very rural world in the western part of Nepal called
> Jumla, Humla with lots of pictures. Also you will know about KU work in
> stoves.
>
> I tried to put some theories related to stove combustion with online
> calculations. There are details on my ku stoves with
> animations. There are several other things I am still working on which
> is under construction and will be available soon. My works will be
> updated periodically. Please donot forget to give comments and
> suggestions when you leave the website.
>
> looking forward for your suggestions and comments
>
> my website is
>
> www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan
>
> kanchan
>

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Fri Jul 23 10:28:40 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
In-Reply-To: <01bb01c470bf$c4277080$7c6c0443@ronallarson>
Message-ID: <FRI.23.JUL.2004.152840.0100.>

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:17:14 -0600, Ron Larson wrote:

>Stovers:
> I thought I could get by with a quick skim of Kanchan's site - but just
>spend an hour there.

I have only had time to skim, more later. I found the pictures
evocative and was brought up hard by the statement that a woman's
average life expectancy was 42 years, I just wondered how many of we
listers from the affluent society were less than this?

AJH

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Fri Jul 23 20:53:58 2004
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (adkarve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Tracking unit for parabolic cooker
Message-ID: <SAT.24.JUL.2004.062358.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Dear Musungu,
here's another address: Vijay Barve, 54 Narayan Niwas, Kansai Vibhag,
Ambarnath 421501, Maharashtra State, India.
Mr. Desai is an old man, who is just a tinkerer. He only had a small model,
whereas Mr. Barve has a parabolic mirror working in a school hostel. He has
invited me to see it, but currently, we are having our annual rainy season,
called monsoon, and therefore I have postponed my visit to him.
Yours A.D.Karve
----- Original Message -----
From: reecon <reecon@mitsuminet.com>
To: adkarve <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Tracking unit for parabolic cooker

> Dear Dr. Karve,
>
> We wish to thank you very much for the address of inventor of the
parabolic
> solar cooker tracking device.
>
> We have written to him using the address you gave us till now we have not
> received any reply.
>
> We would like to request you to please assist us by forwarding the
attached
> letter to him.
>
> We apologize for any inconvenience.
>
> Kind regards, Anna Ingwe.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: adkarve <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 4:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [STOVES] Tracking unit for parabolic cooker
>
>
> > The address of the inventor is:
> > Mr.H.M.Desai
> > 4/39 Municipal Quarters, Government Colony
> > Race Course, Haji Ali Park, Mumbai 400 034, India
> > Phone: 91-22-24922763/24902151
> > Yours A.D.Karve
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: reecon <reecon@mitsuminet.com>
> > To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:18 PM
> > Subject: [STOVES] Tracking unit for parabolic cooker
> >
> >
> > Hallo stovers,
> > I noticed a poster that said someone had developed a simple tracking
> device
> > for parabolic solar cookers, i seem to have deleted it. Could i have
that
> > information please. (Dr. Karve?).
> > Regards,
> > Musungu.
> >
> >
>

From sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Jul 24 09:18:02 2004
From: sushim45 at HOTMAIL.COM (Sushim Amatya)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Designing a combustion chamber using the rocket principle
Message-ID: <SAT.24.JUL.2004.091802.0400.SUSHIM45@HOTMAIL.COM>

Dear Stovers,

I have posted the design of a combustion chamber of a metal stove using the
rocket principle. The height of the stove seems to be more than the length
of the stove. Please give your ideas if the design is correct or not...

Using the rocket principle for the combustion chamber design in Metal
Stoves :

Materials for the combustion chamber = mild steel (0.3mm) or 3CR12 (1.2 mm)

Considerations:

a) Largest pot diameter = 220 mm

Therefore the diameter of the combustion chamber = 220+6+6 = 232 mm
(providing 6mm of gap both sides)

 

For a good design,
d1: d2 :: 1.5:1
i.e. d2 = 155 mm ( theoretically)

but we shall consider d1=d2=d= 232 mm

Design for the pot skirt:

Gap between pot and skirt = 2.5 x diameter of the combustion chamber/
diameter of pot

= 2.5 x 232
220
= 2.6 mm ~ 3 mm

Gap between the inner combustion chamber and the stove ring:

A rocket stove uses 5 cm of thick insulation using insulative materials
such as fire bricks, vermiculite, ash etc.
But,

As we are designing a heat radiating stove, a 5 cm gap between the casing
and the combustion chamber allows convective heat transfer to occur by the
air molecules reducing combustion efficiency.

 

Determination of height of combustion chamber use:

Height of stove entrance = X = 232 mm

Height of the combustion chamber above stove entrance = 1.5 x X
= 1.5 x 232
= 348 mm

 

Total height of the combustion chamber = X + 1.5 X + 50
= 232+348+50
= 630 mm

Determination of height of the self above the bottom of the combustion
chamber:

SH (shelf height)= 0.3X
= 0.3 x 232
= 69.6 mm ~ 70 mm

we shall use a 5 mm thick metal sheet for shelf with a grate welded at the
end.

REGARDS,
Sushim

From larryw at PROAXIS.COM Sat Jul 24 13:42:25 2004
From: larryw at PROAXIS.COM (larry winiarski)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Designing a combustion chamber using the rocket principle
Message-ID: <SAT.24.JUL.2004.104225.0700.LARRYW@PROAXIS.COM>

Dear Sushim

Thank you for your interest in the rocket stove. If you could send me a
drawing of the stove with dimensions I might be able to understand your
ideas better. I developed the rocket stove over 20 years ago and have made
a number of rocket stove designs , including some for both cooking and
heating. Is this your goal.?What power output are you trying for?Do you
plan to use a chimney to vent the stove?

It is better to insulate the combustion chamber so that you get good, clean
combustion and a good draft. then arrange for heat transfer to the pot and
/or the room!

God Bless

Larry Winiarski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sushim Amatya" <sushim45@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:18 AM
Subject: [STOVES] Designing a combustion chamber using the rocket principle

> Dear Stovers,
>
> I have posted the design of a combustion chamber of a metal stove using
the
> rocket principle. The height of the stove seems to be more than the length
> of the stove. Please give your ideas if the design is correct or not...
>
> Using the rocket principle for the combustion chamber design in Metal
> Stoves :
>
> Materials for the combustion chamber = mild steel (0.3mm) or 3CR12 (1.2
mm)
>
> Considerations:
>
> a) Largest pot diameter = 220 mm
>
> Therefore the diameter of the combustion chamber = 220+6+6 = 232 mm
> (providing 6mm of gap both sides)
>
>
>
> For a good design,
> d1: d2 :: 1.5:1
> i.e. d2 = 155 mm ( theoretically)
>
> but we shall consider d1=d2=d= 232 mm
>
> Design for the pot skirt:
>
> Gap between pot and skirt = 2.5 x diameter of the combustion chamber/
> diameter of pot
>
> = 2.5 x 232
> 220
> = 2.6 mm ~ 3 mm
>
> Gap between the inner combustion chamber and the stove ring:
>
> A rocket stove uses 5 cm of thick insulation using insulative materials
> such as fire bricks, vermiculite, ash etc.
> But,
>
> As we are designing a heat radiating stove, a 5 cm gap between the casing
> and the combustion chamber allows convective heat transfer to occur by the
> air molecules reducing combustion efficiency.
>
>
>
> Determination of height of combustion chamber use:
>
> Height of stove entrance = X = 232 mm
>
> Height of the combustion chamber above stove entrance = 1.5 x X
> = 1.5 x 232
> = 348 mm
>
>
>
>
> Total height of the combustion chamber = X + 1.5 X + 50
> = 232+348+50
> = 630 mm
>
> Determination of height of the self above the bottom of the combustion
> chamber:
>
> SH (shelf height)= 0.3X
> = 0.3 x 232
> = 69.6 mm ~ 70 mm
>
> we shall use a 5 mm thick metal sheet for shelf with a grate welded at the
> end.
>
> REGARDS,
> Sushim
>

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sat Jul 24 14:46:02 2004
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: ARTI videos in compressed avi format
Message-ID: <SAT.24.JUL.2004.144602.0400.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Grant, Andrew and Dr. Karve,

Thank you for your tireless efforts. I downloaded the files from HEDON
with no problems on a standrd DSL connection. I have placed a link to your
downbload site on Biomass Cooking Stoves and will in time also put the
files on the stoves site.
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

Kind regards,

Tom

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:22:00 +0100, Grant Ballard-Tremeer
<stoves@ECOHARMONY.COM> wrote:

>Dear Stovers
>
>As Andrew Heggie reported some weeks ago, he transferred the two video
>files to me via FTP (taking many hours of high-speed transfer - thanks
>Andrew!). I have since converted and compressed them so that the files
>are now more than 10 times smaller and picture quality and size
>reasonable (although certainly not as good as the original). These,
>with Dr Karve's permission, are available to download at:
>
>www.hedon.info/goto.php/ARTI
>
>Click on the 'Videos' link in the table of contents to jump directly
>to the download links. At about 15MB for the sugar-cane charcoal
>briquette video and 23MB for the bamboo video, the downloads are still
>not easily accessible unless you have high-speed broadband access (at
>normal dial-up access speeds you will take over an hour to download
>each video, but less than 5 minutes on a reasonable ADSL line).
>
>Tom - maybe these two files could also be placed on the 'stoves'
>website?
>
>Regards
>Grant
>
>PS. The format is DIV-X (.avi) which most of you should be able to
>play without any extra codecs, but on older systems some may need to
>download some extra drivers. //G
>
>--
>Grant Ballard-Tremeer PhD, CEng MIMechE, MEI
>Visit Eco on the web at http://ecoharmony.com
>HEDON Household Energy Network http://hedon.info
>SPARKNET Knowledge Network http://sparknet.info
>Partners for Africa http://partners4africa.org
>Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
>About me: http://hedon.info/goto.php/User:GrantBallard-Tremeer
>-------------------

From tmiles at TRMILES.COM Sat Jul 24 14:49:47 2004
From: tmiles at TRMILES.COM (Tom Miles)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <SAT.24.JUL.2004.144947.0400.TMILES@TRMILES.COM>

Kanchan,

Congratulations on your new site. You have done a very nice job of
presenting the problem and alternative solutions.

I have put links to your site on the Biomass Cooking Stoves pages at
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/

Kind regards,

Tom Miles

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 23:49:04 +0545, Kanchan Rai <Kanchan@KU.EDU.NP> wrote:

>Dear stovers'
>I have just completed my webpage on stove, especially for the mountain
>areas of Nepal. Still webpage is rough and needs modifications as well.
>I spend hours in designing my webpage. Please go through the web site
>you can explore the very rural world in the western part of Nepal called
>Jumla, Humla with lots of pictures. Also you will know about KU work in
>stoves.
>
>I tried to put some theories related to stove combustion with online
>calculations. There are details on my ku stoves with
>animations. There are several other things I am still working on which
>is under construction and will be available soon. My works will be
>updated periodically. Please donot forget to give comments and
>suggestions when you leave the website.
>
>looking forward for your suggestions and comments
>
>my website is
>
>www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan
>
>kanchan

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Fri Jul 23 21:16:06 2004
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (adkarve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Serial vs. parallel potholes
Message-ID: <SAT.24.JUL.2004.064606.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Dear Ron,
nice to see your posting after a long gap. The stoves with serial potholes
have the disadvantage that unless you have a pot on each of them, you are
not utilising the heat properly. Also smoke comes out of an uncovered hole.
Many people therefore prefer a stove with two or three holes that are
connected to the same common firemouth. You just orient the burning wood in
such a way that the flames are below the hole on which you have kept the
pot. The stovers in our group feel, that the efficiency of such stoves is
rather low, but even lost heat is not really lost in the Himalayan
situation, because it heats the atmosphere in the room.
Yours
Nandu
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Larson <ronallarson@QWEST.NET>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves

> Stovers:
> I thought I could get by with a quick skim of Kanchan's site - but
just
> spend an hour there. He has done a really fine job of explaining many
> fundamental principles. I could not open the page on his experimental
> results - so will go back and hope to see some comparisons with theory.
>
> He has a three hole burner with parallel rather than series use of the
> hot gases. I remember seeing a proof of the validity of this in something
> from Eindhoven and hope we can hear more on this fundamental issue.
>
> Kanchan also seem to have a closed fuel tray and rather complete control
> of air. I am looking forward to a comparison of results with a Rocket
> version he has also been developing which I presume will not have air
> control.
>
> He has some video graphics that are very professional - but my
computer
> is so slow I have to go find another way to view these.
>
> This is a web site that all stovers should pay attention to and try to
> critique (as he has requested). Is there anything as (potentially)
thorough
> in the world of stoves?
>
> Kanchan - nice work!
>
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kanchan Rai" <Kanchan@KU.EDU.NP>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 12:04 PM
> Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
>
>
> > ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> > Sender: The Stoves Discussion List <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > Poster: Kanchan Rai <Kanchan@KU.EDU.NP>
> > Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Dear stovers'
> > I have just completed my webpage on stove, especially for the mountain
> > areas of Nepal. Still webpage is rough and needs modifications as well.
> > I spend hours in designing my webpage. Please go through the web site
> > you can explore the very rural world in the western part of Nepal called
> > Jumla, Humla with lots of pictures. Also you will know about KU work in
> > stoves.
> >
> > I tried to put some theories related to stove combustion with online
> > calculations. There are details on my ku stoves with
> > animations. There are several other things I am still working on which
> > is under construction and will be available soon. My works will be
> > updated periodically. Please donot forget to give comments and
> > suggestions when you leave the website.
> >
> > looking forward for your suggestions and comments
> >
> > my website is
> >
> > www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan
> >
> > kanchan
> >

From Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP Sun Jul 25 13:14:30 2004
From: Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP (Kanchan Rai)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <SUN.25.JUL.2004.225930.0545.KANCHAN@KU.EDU.NP>

Dear Peter,
Thanks for your response. I think from your response, you only viewed
the flash animation thing. There are plenty of pictures, if you enter the
website at the end of flash animation, or you can skip the animation.
please go inside the website and don't forget to comment and
give suggestions

regards,
kanchan

> Dear Kanchan,
>
> I just had a look at your new Website. I am impressed!
> Very good. the only comment I can make is could you let the photos sit
> there a little longer?
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Peter Verhaart
>
>
> At 23:49 23/07/2004 +0545, you wrote:
>>Dear stovers'
>>I have just completed my webpage on stove, especially for the mountain
>> areas of Nepal. Still webpage is rough and needs modifications as
>> well. I spend hours in designing my webpage. Please go through the
>> web site you can explore the very rural world in the western part of
>> Nepal called Jumla, Humla with lots of pictures. Also you will know
>> about KU work in stoves.
>>
>>I tried to put some theories related to stove combustion with online
>> calculations. There are details on my ku stoves with
>>animations. There are several other things I am still working on which
>> is under construction and will be available soon. My works will be
>> updated periodically. Please donot forget to give comments and
>>suggestions when you leave the website.
>>
>>looking forward for your suggestions and comments
>>
>>my website is
>>
>>www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan
>>
>>kanchan

From Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP Sun Jul 25 13:22:38 2004
From: Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP (Kanchan Rai)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <SUN.25.JUL.2004.230738.0545.KANCHAN@KU.EDU.NP>

Fri, July 23, 2004 8:02 pm Ron wrote:

> Stovers:
> I thought I could get by with a quick skim of Kanchan's site - but
> just spend an hour there.

Thanks for your suggestions and spending time on my website

> He has done a really fine job of explaining many
> fundamental principles. I could not open the page on his experimental
> results - so will go back and hope to see some comparisons with
> theory.

I haven't put any thing on my experimental results since I am just
working on setting my stove testing laboratory properly. I have my
previous test results but I don't want to put right now as I need to
verify the results again. My previous experiments were quite rough with
few equipements and with no laboratory. Luckily I manage to get some
good instruments and data logging things. I'll update my researh updates
in coming days.

>
> He has a three hole burner with parallel rather than series use of
> the
> hot gases. I remember seeing a proof of the validity of this in
> something from Eindhoven and hope we can hear more on this fundamental
> issue.
>
> Kanchan also seem to have a closed fuel tray and rather complete
> control
> of air. I am looking forward to a comparison of results with a Rocket
> version he has also been developing which I presume will not have air
> control.

Yes! there will be no air control in rocket stove, as in rocket stove
the burning rate will be controlled by fuel feeding.
>
> He has some video graphics that are very professional - but my
> computer
> is so slow I have to go find another way to view these.
>
> This is a web site that all stovers should pay attention to and try
> to
> critique (as he has requested). Is there anything as (potentially)
> thorough in the world of stoves?

I am expecting more people to see my webpage and give suggestions and
comments

Regards,
Kanchan

From Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP Sun Jul 25 13:24:38 2004
From: Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP (Kanchan Rai)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%2004072414494762@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Message-ID: <SUN.25.JUL.2004.230938.0545.KANCHAN@KU.EDU.NP>

Dear Tom,
Thanks for putting my website links on the Biomass Cooking Stoves page.
This will surely helps more people to visit my website.

regards,
kanchan

> Kanchan,
>
> Congratulations on your new site. You have done a very nice job of
> presenting the problem and alternative solutions.
>
> I have put links to your site on the Biomass Cooking Stoves pages at
> http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Tom Miles
>

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Sun Jul 25 09:01:14 2004
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Serial vs. parallel potholes
Message-ID: <SUN.25.JUL.2004.070114.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Today, A.D. said:

"....... The stoves with serial potholes
> have the disadvantage that unless you have a pot on each of them, you are
> not utilising the heat properly. Also smoke comes out of an uncovered hole.
> Many people therefore prefer a stove with two or three holes that are
> connected to the same common firemouth. You just orient the burning wood in
> such a way that the flames are below the hole on which you have kept the
> pot. The stovers in our group feel, that the efficiency of such stoves is
> rather low, but even lost heat is not really lost in the Himalayan
> situation, because it heats the atmosphere in the room."

RWL: I believe AD is correctly saying that there is a social preference for the parallel approach - but that would be interesting to hear more on. Many of us have seen rural women very cleverly doing exactly what A.D. has noted with fuel placement. But the question I hope someone, especially those from Eindhoven, can answer is whether this is also theoretically the way to get the highest overall efficiency. That is what I remember reading - but have no way of finding now - and I can't remember the means of proof.
It is also possible of course to use internal moveable baffles to achieve what rural cooks can do with fuel placement. I hope someone can report on experiments done with both the series and parallel ways. In a separate response message I will ask Kanchan about his reasons for going parallel. I have been in many homes, including those near Pune, where we typically saw several separate fires - a form of parallelism.
Re needing to fill the holes and capture of heat in cold climates, these would seem to apply equally in either the series or parallel geometries. Ron

The above all based on Kanchan's message saying:

> > > my website is
> > >
> > > www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan
> > >
> > > kanchan
> > >
>

From ronallarson at QWEST.NET Sun Jul 25 09:23:49 2004
From: ronallarson at QWEST.NET (Ron Larson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <SUN.25.JUL.2004.072349.0600.RONALLARSON@QWEST.NET>

Stovers - today Kanchan Rai wrote in part:

1. RE EXPERIMENTAL POSTINGS:
> I haven't put any thing on my experimental results since I am just
> working on setting my stove testing laboratory properly. I have my
> previous test results but I don't want to put right now as I need to
> verify the results again. My previous experiments were quite rough with
> few equipements and with no laboratory. Luckily I manage to get some
> good instruments and data logging things. I'll update my researh updates
> in coming days.

RWL: My bet is that your "crude" results are better than most of us have reported - especially if you have done any boiling water tests. Since you have thousands of units out there, I guess there may be something that would be interesting and our comments might help in your forthcoming measurements.

2. RE AIR CONTROL:
> Yes! there will be no air control in rocket stove, as in rocket stove
> the burning rate will be controlled by fuel feeding.
> >
RWL: I look forward to seeing experimental efficiency results comparing the two stoves. The concern I have with the Rocket is the very high excess air ratios reported. I would like to hear that the exhaust stream has about 9-10% Oxygen (or less if clean) and not the 19-20% that I hear from the Rockets. (Modern power plants are unhappy - for efficiency reasons - when their exhaust Oxygen is as high as 1%. And they have very complete combustion!!)
There is no doubt that one can control the burn rate with fuel feeding - but the issue I am wondering about is that of the relationship between efficiency and air control.
Can you report to us on why you used a closed fuel chamber and air control in the main design on your web site? (which is www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan)

Ron

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Sun Jul 25 12:37:37 2004
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (adkarve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: compact biogas system
Message-ID: <SUN.25.JUL.2004.220737.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Dear Stovers,
We are now collaborating with a voluntary organisation formed by a group of
engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane, Maharashtra,
has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters of
biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally
available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16 cubic
meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them only
Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely, Pongamia
pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the engineers'
voluntary organisation tested a petrol driven electricity generator on this
biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator entirely on
biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven electricity
generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the total
diesel.
Yours
A.D.Karve
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Miles <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] ARTI videos in compressed avi format

> Grant, Andrew and Dr. Karve,
>
> Thank you for your tireless efforts. I downloaded the files from HEDON
> with no problems on a standrd DSL connection. I have placed a link to your
> downbload site on Biomass Cooking Stoves and will in time also put the
> files on the stoves site.
> http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Tom
>
>
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:22:00 +0100, Grant Ballard-Tremeer
> <stoves@ECOHARMONY.COM> wrote:
>
> >Dear Stovers
> >
> >As Andrew Heggie reported some weeks ago, he transferred the two video
> >files to me via FTP (taking many hours of high-speed transfer - thanks
> >Andrew!). I have since converted and compressed them so that the files
> >are now more than 10 times smaller and picture quality and size
> >reasonable (although certainly not as good as the original). These,
> >with Dr Karve's permission, are available to download at:
> >
> >www.hedon.info/goto.php/ARTI
> >
> >Click on the 'Videos' link in the table of contents to jump directly
> >to the download links. At about 15MB for the sugar-cane charcoal
> >briquette video and 23MB for the bamboo video, the downloads are still
> >not easily accessible unless you have high-speed broadband access (at
> >normal dial-up access speeds you will take over an hour to download
> >each video, but less than 5 minutes on a reasonable ADSL line).
> >
> >Tom - maybe these two files could also be placed on the 'stoves'
> >website?
> >
> >Regards
> >Grant
> >
> >PS. The format is DIV-X (.avi) which most of you should be able to
> >play without any extra codecs, but on older systems some may need to
> >download some extra drivers. file://G
> >
> >--
> >Grant Ballard-Tremeer PhD, CEng MIMechE, MEI
> >Visit Eco on the web at http://ecoharmony.com
> >HEDON Household Energy Network http://hedon.info
> >SPARKNET Knowledge Network http://sparknet.info
> >Partners for Africa http://partners4africa.org
> >Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
> >About me: http://hedon.info/goto.php/User:GrantBallard-Tremeer
> >-------------------

From Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP Mon Jul 26 10:10:04 2004
From: Kanchan at KU.EDU.NP (Kanchan Rai)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
Message-ID: <MON.26.JUL.2004.195504.0545.KANCHAN@KU.EDU.NP>

Dear Dr. Karabi Dutta,
Thanks for spending time on my website and telling that my website is
impressive and informative. I am grateful to you for linking my site on
your website. This will make more people to see my webpage. I have just
linked your site from my website.

Kind regards,
Kanchan

> Dear Kanchan Rai,
>
> I have been going through your website. It is very impressive as well
> as informative. Congratulations on the good work.
>
> Kanchan, I have included your website as a reference link in the
> Breathe Easy Network.I have a request, could you also link the
> following links from your link ?
>
> http://india.shellfoundation.net and
>
> www.hedon.info
>
> With Best Wishes,
> Regards,
> Karabi
>
>
> --
> Dr.Karabi Dutta.
> Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
> About me:
> http://india.shellfoundation.net/goto.php/User:KarabiDutta
> Email me at: karabi@shellfoundation.net
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kanchan Rai" <Kanchan@KU.EDU.NP>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 11:34 PM
> Subject: [STOVES] Website on RDC, Kathmandu Universtiy work on stoves
>
>
>> Dear stovers'
>> I have just completed my webpage on stove, especially for the
>> mountain areas of Nepal. Still webpage is rough and needs
>> modifications as well. I spend hours in designing my webpage. Please
>> go through the web site you can explore the very rural world in the
>> western part of Nepal called Jumla, Humla with lots of pictures. Also
>> you will know about KU work in stoves.
>>
>> I tried to put some theories related to stove combustion with online
>> calculations. There are details on my ku stoves with
>> animations. There are several other things I am still working on
>> which is under construction and will be available soon. My works will
>> be updated periodically. Please donot forget to give comments and
>> suggestions when you leave the website.
>>
>> looking forward for your suggestions and comments
>>
>> my website is
>>
>> www.ku.edu.np/~kanchan
>>
>> kanchan

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Mon Jul 26 10:49:17 2004
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for Design Excellence
bestowed on the Vesto Stove
Message-ID: <MON.26.JUL.2004.164917.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

26 July 2004

Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users

After two years of enthusiastic encouragement and advice from a number of
actors on the international stage and much wild-eyed and off-the-wall work
at New Dawn Engineering the news is in!

It is with great celebration that we announce that an award for Design
Excellence has been given to the Vesto single pot improved cooking stove .
This annual award is given in recognition of Design Excellence. There are
four entrance categories and Vesto was judged in the Houseware section.

The judging criteria include: Innovation, Cost/value relationship,
Performance, Safety and ergonomics, Environmental impact, Appearance and
tactile aspects, Ease of maintenance and installation, Design choices made
in materials, Manufacture and assembly.

Indian Designer of the Year, Satish Gokhale was the South African Bureau of
Standards' Design Institute 'international expert' and he sat on the judging
panel that reviewed the Vesto. He was very enthusiastic about the product
and commented that it was an item with a large export potential.

The Vesto is a formal sector product designed to make an impact on the
consumption of biomass fuels by extending their burning time, by avoiding
the cutting of forests and by allowing for the efficient use of multiple
fuels including waste. Made largely from stainless steel, it is an
aspirational stove aimed at households earning $130 to $230 per month but
with looks that appeal to much higher income groups. It is currently being
sold in nine countries through more than 30 retail dealers. It sells for
$41 plus tax in South Africa.

It can be viewed at
http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/stove/singlestove/vesto/vesto1.htm

With sincere thanks to all of you in the Stoves Group who contributed in any
way to my understanding of stoves, combustion, materials, heat flows, fuel
types, cooking needs and testing procedures. This is a victory for all who
strive for the betterment of humanity - our one family sharing a common,
planetary home.

Sincerely
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Vesto Designer
New Dawn Engineering
Matsapha, Swaziland

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Mon Jul 26 17:37:32 2004
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Stove testing (also relates to: ETHOS Stoves Summer Camp 2004
Schedule)
In-Reply-To: <20040723050316.09E01CE@telchar.epud.net>
Message-ID: <MON.26.JUL.2004.163732.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Dean,

Would you please post more information about the testing of the
stoves. Specifically, what do you expect each stove to be able to do as a
task? For example, to boil a pot of water (size, etc) with direct flame
is different from boiling through a steel plancha.

Also provide comments about fuels that can/will be used.

Thanks,

Paul

At 10:03 PM 7/22/04 -0700, Dean Still wrote:
>Dear Stovers,
>
>Here is a somewhat flexible schedule for the upcoming Stove Summer Camp
>August 20 to 23 at Aprovecho near Eugene, Oregon... Drs. Bryan Willson, Tami
>Bond, Mark Bryden, Larry Winiarski, lots of graduate students and stovers
>from Africa, Mexico and Nepal are currently signed up to attend. Hope to see
>you as well!
>
>Best,
>
>Dean
>
>August 20
>
>9am Welcome (donuts & coffee)Pick up readings
>10am Group discussion: "What Do We Agree Improves Cookstoves?"
>11:30 Introduce Wood Food Program tincanium: split into design groups
>12pm Lunch
>1pm Groups create prototype refugee stoves for WFP
>3pm Begin testing prototypes using revised CCT/emissions hood
>
>August 21
>8am Donuts/coffee
>9:30 Finish testing
>11am "What Did We Learn?"
>12pm Lunch
>1pm Split into four groups to address following:
>A.) Making electricity from wood burning stoves (Lead: Winiarski and
>Willson)
>B.) How can CO/PM be measured in a test kitchen? (Lead: Bond and
>Berrick)
>C.) Test/modify fuel efficient bread oven (Lead: Bryden and Hatfield)
>D.) Test/modify fuel efficient Patsari stove (Lead: Berrueta and Still)
>5pm Groups report
>
>August 22
>8am Donuts and coffee
>9am -11:30pm Groups work on projects (report at 11:30)
>12pm Lunch
>1pm Free individuals begin emission testing of Vesto, Paul Anderson, Tom
>Reed, Rocket stoves
>Begin building institutional stoves (200 litre pots) for WFP
>5pm Report progress
>
>August 23
>8am Donuts and coffee
>9am "Where are we and how to best use last day?"
>Groups continue work
>12pm Lunch
>1pm Groups present progress, light and display stoves
>3pm "What will we accomplish before ETHOS annual meeting in February?"
>5pm donuts and coffee, group votes and awards ETHOS best progress medal
>
>
>---
>To unsubscribe, send email to majormail@vrac.iastate.edu with
>this as the first line in the BODY of the message: unsubscribe ethos
>---

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072

From dstill at EPUD.NET Mon Jul 26 20:24:20 2004
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: FW: Stove testing (also relates to: ETHOS Stoves Summer Camp 2004
Schedule)
Message-ID: <MON.26.JUL.2004.172420.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Paul,

The following describes the VITA WBT (Shell/UCB revision 2004)we will be
using at the Summer Camp. We also will be using the CCT in which food is
cooked to completion. With luck emissions will be measured at the same time
during the testing. An excel spreadsheet shows both fuel use and emissions.

The Water Boiling Test (WBT)
Introduction
This modified version of the well-known Water Boiling Test (WBT) is a
simulation of the cooking process that can be performed on most stoves in
use throughout the world. While the test is not intended to replace other
forms of stove assessment, it is designed to be a simple method by which
stoves made in different places and for different cooking applications may
be compared by a standardized and replicable protocol.
The WBT consists of three phases. 1.) In the first phase, the tester begins
with the stove at room temperature and uses a pre-weighed bundle of wood to
boil a measured quantity of water in a standard pot. The tester then
replaces the boiled water with a fresh pot of cold water to perform the
second phase of the test. 2.) In this phase, water is boiled beginning with
a hot stove in order to identify differences in performance between a stove
when it is cold and when it is hot. 3.) Lastly, the tester again boils a
measured amount of water and then, using a pre-weighed bundle of wood,
simmers the water at just below boiling for a measured period of time (45
minutes).
This process simulates the long cooking of legumes and pulses that is
common throughout much of the world. The wood used to maintain the water at
a simmering temperature (3? C below the local boiling temperature) is
recorded. This test is intended to measure the stove?s performance at both
high and low power output, which are important indicators of the stove?s
ability to conserve fuel.
Rather than report a single number indicating the thermal efficiency of the
stove, which alone can not accurately predict stove performance, this test
is designed to yield several numerical indicators including:
o time to boil
o burning rate
o specific fuel consumption
o firepower
o turn-down ratio

The thermal efficiency calculated from the Water Boiling Test is not
necessarily predictive of cooking performance because it rewards the excess
production of steam. Under normal cooking conditions, excess steam
production wastes energy because it represents energy that is not
transferred to the food. Temperatures within the cooking pot do not rise
above the boiling point of water regardless of how much steam is produced.
Thus, unless steam is required for the cooking process (FAO, 1983), excess
steam production should not be used to increase indicators of stove
performance.
Measurements of stove performance at both high and low power output can give
an indication of how a stove will behave in actual cooking conditions. As
far back as 1985, a number of stove experts started to question the wisdom
of relying solely on thermal efficiency calculations, and recommended that
they be replaced by another standard:

some of the procedures described here differed significantly from what has
been recommended in the past. The main difference is in the concept of
efficiency used. These standards are based on a broader description and
justification of efficiency than Percent Heat Utilized (PHU). They interpret
evaporation as a measure of energy wasted, not energy used (VITA, 1985, page
ix).
The revised test presented here is based on the procedures proposed by VITA
(1985) and Baldwin (1987), but has incorporated minor changes described
below:
1. Specific Consumption is defined as the ratio of the total amount of
wood used to the amount of water ?cooked? (Baldwin, 1986), but was modified
for multi-pot stoves to reward heat transferred to secondary cooking pots
(see Appendix 2).
2. It can be difficult to make a smooth transition from high-power to
low power tests. Methods used in past testing procedures have suggested
extinguishing and weighing wood and charcoal as well as weighing boiling hot
water, and rearranging the fire and cooking pot in rapid succession, which
is both risky and stressful. This revised version of the WBT follows the
suggestions described in VITA Procedural Notes 3 (VITA, 1985), which allows
for a more relaxed testing procedure with minimal loss in accuracy.
3. During the low power simmer test, the tester is instructed to try to
keep the water temperature as close to 3?C below the predetermined boiling
point as possible. Different amounts of steam are produced at each degree
point below boiling. For this reason, it is necessary to minimize the
variation in temperature to ensure that tests are comparable.
4. Hot and cold starts are incorporated in the high power phase of the
test in order to account for the differential performance of stoves that are
kept hot throughout the day. This is particularly important for massive
stoves, whose performance may vary significantly between cold and hot
starting conditions.
5. Simmering occurs for 45 minutes rather than 30, (as suggested in
VITA, 1985) because the large amount of charcoal some stoves create during
the high power phase can skew the results if the simmering test is too
short. The presence of charcoal helps to keep small amounts of wood burning.
A 45 minute simmering period is long enough for the stove at low power to
establish a burning equilibrium, as excess charcoal made at high power is
normally consumed within 30 minutes.

All Best,

Dean

From pverhaart at IPRIMUS.COM.AU Mon Jul 26 21:16:32 2004
From: pverhaart at IPRIMUS.COM.AU (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for Design
Excellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
In-Reply-To: <003601c47320$5acf4fa0$0100a8c0@md>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.JUL.2004.111632.1000.PVERHAART@IPRIMUS.COM.AU>

Crispin,

Congratulations! You deserve it.

Peter Verhaart

 

At 16:49 26/07/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>26 July 2004
>
>Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users
>
>After two years of enthusiastic encouragement and advice from a number of
>actors on the international stage and much wild-eyed and off-the-wall work
>at New Dawn Engineering the news is in!
...........

From pverhaart at IPRIMUS.COM.AU Mon Jul 26 21:17:55 2004
From: pverhaart at IPRIMUS.COM.AU (Peter Verhaart)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for Design
Excellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
In-Reply-To: <003601c47320$5acf4fa0$0100a8c0@md>
Message-ID: <TUE.27.JUL.2004.111755.1000.PVERHAART@IPRIMUS.COM.AU>

I'll wear that Vesto Cap with even more pride than before.

Peter Verhaart

 

At 16:49 26/07/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>26 July 2004
>
>Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Tue Jul 27 09:41:31 2004
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (TBReed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: compact biogas system
Message-ID: <TUE.27.JUL.2004.074131.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear ADK and All:

You are to be congratulated on a breakthrough in making biogas

2CH2O + Smart little bacteria ===> CH4 + CO2 (A disproportionation reaction
that looks easy on paper, but chemists can't do it)

I have never been enthusiastic about digester gas because it required lots
of manure/sewage, very large reactors and lots of time to produce small
amounts of gas. Not surprising, since the digestive tracks that produced the
manure/sewage had already extracted most of the useful energy.

With your new process you are feeding foodlike materials to the digester, so
it isn't surprising that you get much higher yields.

It would be useful if you could convert your figures into m3 of gas/m3 of
reactor/day and compare to manure/sewage digestion figures. I believe you
are 2 to 20 times more efficient/smaller/quicker, but I'd like to see some
figures.

~~~~~~`
Since the name "Biogas" has been used to describe the digestion of
sewage/manure, I suggest you find a new name for your gas and process to
differentiate the two.

~~~~~~~
In 1978 we also compared modern digesters sto the champion of all digesters,
the cow. (Holy Cow!) How many m3 of cow stomach does it take to digest X kg
of grass, and how does that compare to your process.

Your pal and admirer,

TOM REED
----- Original Message -----
From: "adkarve" <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 10:37 AM
Subject: [STOVES] compact biogas system

> Dear Stovers,
> We are now collaborating with a voluntary organisation formed by a group
of
> engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane, Maharashtra,
> has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters of
> biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally
> available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16
cubic
> meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them only
> Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely, Pongamia
> pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the
engineers'
> voluntary organisation tested a petrol driven electricity generator on
this
> biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator entirely
on
> biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven
electricity
> generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the
total
> diesel.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [STOVES] ARTI videos in compressed avi format
>
>
> > Grant, Andrew and Dr. Karve,
> >
> > Thank you for your tireless efforts. I downloaded the files from HEDON
> > with no problems on a standrd DSL connection. I have placed a link to
your
> > downbload site on Biomass Cooking Stoves and will in time also put the
> > files on the stoves site.
> > http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:22:00 +0100, Grant Ballard-Tremeer
> > <stoves@ECOHARMONY.COM> wrote:
> >
> > >Dear Stovers
> > >
> > >As Andrew Heggie reported some weeks ago, he transferred the two video
> > >files to me via FTP (taking many hours of high-speed transfer - thanks
> > >Andrew!). I have since converted and compressed them so that the files
> > >are now more than 10 times smaller and picture quality and size
> > >reasonable (although certainly not as good as the original). These,
> > >with Dr Karve's permission, are available to download at:
> > >
> > >www.hedon.info/goto.php/ARTI
> > >
> > >Click on the 'Videos' link in the table of contents to jump directly
> > >to the download links. At about 15MB for the sugar-cane charcoal
> > >briquette video and 23MB for the bamboo video, the downloads are still
> > >not easily accessible unless you have high-speed broadband access (at
> > >normal dial-up access speeds you will take over an hour to download
> > >each video, but less than 5 minutes on a reasonable ADSL line).
> > >
> > >Tom - maybe these two files could also be placed on the 'stoves'
> > >website?
> > >
> > >Regards
> > >Grant
> > >
> > >PS. The format is DIV-X (.avi) which most of you should be able to
> > >play without any extra codecs, but on older systems some may need to
> > >download some extra drivers. file://G
> > >
> > >--
> > >Grant Ballard-Tremeer PhD, CEng MIMechE, MEI
> > >Visit Eco on the web at http://ecoharmony.com
> > >HEDON Household Energy Network http://hedon.info
> > >SPARKNET Knowledge Network http://sparknet.info
> > >Partners for Africa http://partners4africa.org
> > >Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
> > >About me: http://hedon.info/goto.php/User:GrantBallard-Tremeer
> > >-------------------

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Wed Jul 28 10:34:45 2004
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (adkarve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: compact biogas system
Message-ID: <WED.28.JUL.2004.200445.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Dear Tom,
The system that I mentioned in my previous mail produces 16 cubic meters of
biogas, using 16 kg of oilcake of non-edible oilseeds, once every 24hours.
One would require 40 kg dung and fermentation period of 40 days to produce
the same quantity of biogas. Because of the residual oil and the high
protein content of the oilcake, its calorific value is much greater than
that of starch from cereal grains, rhizomes or tubers. As a result, this
particular system is 1600 times as efficient as the conventional biogas
plants. Another person, with whom we are collaborating, has a biogas plant
producing daily 40 cubic meters of gas. He used to feed it daily with 1000
kg dung, but now he is using daily a mixture of 200 kg cattle dung and 15 kg
sorghum grain flour. He is reluctant to switch over completely to sorghum,
as he feels that the bacteria may go on strike if they did not get their
daily dose of dung. In his case, he replaces 800 kg dung by 15 kg flour and
reduces the reaction time from 40 days to one day. He thus gets an
efficiency that is 2000 times that of the traditional system.
In the moving dome reactors that we use, the gas holder telescopes into the
fermenter. Therefore, the total volume of the system is twice that of the
volume of the gas that you expect to get from it. Now that we have achieved
a higher efficiency of biogas generation, we are thinking of delinking the
fermenter from the gas holder, similar to the new air-conditioners, in which
the noisy compressor is kept out of the room and only the delivery mechanism
for the cool air is inside the room.
Yours
Nandu
----- Original Message -----
From: TBReed <tombreed@COMCAST.NET>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] compact biogas system

> Dear ADK and All:
>
> You are to be congratulated on a breakthrough in making biogas
>
> 2CH2O + Smart little bacteria ===> CH4 + CO2 (A disproportionation
reaction
> that looks easy on paper, but chemists can't do it)
>
> I have never been enthusiastic about digester gas because it required lots
> of manure/sewage, very large reactors and lots of time to produce small
> amounts of gas. Not surprising, since the digestive tracks that produced
the
> manure/sewage had already extracted most of the useful energy.
>
> With your new process you are feeding foodlike materials to the digester,
so
> it isn't surprising that you get much higher yields.
>
> It would be useful if you could convert your figures into m3 of gas/m3 of
> reactor/day and compare to manure/sewage digestion figures. I believe you
> are 2 to 20 times more efficient/smaller/quicker, but I'd like to see some
> figures.
>
> ~~~~~~`
> Since the name "Biogas" has been used to describe the digestion of
> sewage/manure, I suggest you find a new name for your gas and process to
> differentiate the two.
>
>
> ~~~~~~~
> In 1978 we also compared modern digesters sto the champion of all
digesters,
> the cow. (Holy Cow!) How many m3 of cow stomach does it take to digest X
kg
> of grass, and how does that compare to your process.
>
> Your pal and admirer,
>
> TOM REED
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "adkarve" <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 10:37 AM
> Subject: [STOVES] compact biogas system
>
>
> > Dear Stovers,
> > We are now collaborating with a voluntary organisation formed by a group
> of
> > engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane,
Maharashtra,
> > has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters
of
> > biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally
> > available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16
> cubic
> > meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them only
> > Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely, Pongamia
> > pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the
> engineers'
> > voluntary organisation tested a petrol driven electricity generator on
> this
> > biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator
entirely
> on
> > biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven
> electricity
> > generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the
> total
> > diesel.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tom Miles <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
> > To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [STOVES] ARTI videos in compressed avi format
> >
> >
> > > Grant, Andrew and Dr. Karve,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your tireless efforts. I downloaded the files from HEDON
> > > with no problems on a standrd DSL connection. I have placed a link to
> your
> > > downbload site on Biomass Cooking Stoves and will in time also put the
> > > files on the stoves site.
> > > http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:22:00 +0100, Grant Ballard-Tremeer
> > > <stoves@ECOHARMONY.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Dear Stovers
> > > >
> > > >As Andrew Heggie reported some weeks ago, he transferred the two
video
> > > >files to me via FTP (taking many hours of high-speed transfer -
thanks
> > > >Andrew!). I have since converted and compressed them so that the
files
> > > >are now more than 10 times smaller and picture quality and size
> > > >reasonable (although certainly not as good as the original). These,
> > > >with Dr Karve's permission, are available to download at:
> > > >
> > > >www.hedon.info/goto.php/ARTI
> > > >
> > > >Click on the 'Videos' link in the table of contents to jump directly
> > > >to the download links. At about 15MB for the sugar-cane charcoal
> > > >briquette video and 23MB for the bamboo video, the downloads are
still
> > > >not easily accessible unless you have high-speed broadband access (at
> > > >normal dial-up access speeds you will take over an hour to download
> > > >each video, but less than 5 minutes on a reasonable ADSL line).
> > > >
> > > >Tom - maybe these two files could also be placed on the 'stoves'
> > > >website?
> > > >
> > > >Regards
> > > >Grant
> > > >
> > > >PS. The format is DIV-X (.avi) which most of you should be able to
> > > >play without any extra codecs, but on older systems some may need to
> > > >download some extra drivers. file://G
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >Grant Ballard-Tremeer PhD, CEng MIMechE, MEI
> > > >Visit Eco on the web at http://ecoharmony.com
> > > >HEDON Household Energy Network http://hedon.info
> > > >SPARKNET Knowledge Network http://sparknet.info
> > > >Partners for Africa http://partners4africa.org
> > > >Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
> > > >About me: http://hedon.info/goto.php/User:GrantBallard-Tremeer
> > > >-------------------

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Wed Jul 28 11:14:32 2004
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (adkarve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
Message-ID: <WED.28.JUL.2004.204432.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Dear Crispin,
hearty congratulations. Mr. Satish Gokhale is personally known to me. He is
the son of a friend of mine. Architect Gokhale's father is a retired
pharmacist, who owns a bamboo plantation, about 60 km from Pune. The family
used to own a pharmacy called Africa Drug House (I do not know why it was
so called). He is currently collaborating with us in making charcoal from
bamboo. Bamboo charcoal, even when produced at the normal pyrolysis
temperature of 300 degrees celsius, acts like active charcoal. Normally
active charcoal is produced at 700 plus degrees. Just last week I attended a
bamboo conference here in Pune. I met Satish Gokhale's father on that
occasion, and he mentioned to me that his son had gone to South Africa to
act as a judge in a design contest. I was felicitated during this conference
for my work on various new technologies that I introduced to increase the
use of bamboo in India. I rediscovered and standardised a treatment, that
retards biodegradation of bamboo, and showed that such bamboo can be used in
all kinds of outdoor structures, like scaffoldings for vines, fencing, water
tanks (large sized bamboo baskets, lined with a plastic film), open-top
green house (in pensinsular India, we require neither heating nor cooling to
grow plants. The open top greenhouse consists of a skirting of plastic film
around the vegetable- or flower-bed. It is supported by bamboo poles. It
acts like a tank, in which the carbon dioxide produced by the plants during
the night accumulates. This carbon dioxide is photosynthesised during the
day, by the same plants that have produced it. In India, sunshine is not the
limiting factor, but carbon dioxide is. We get easily double the yield with
this simple trick), solar drier for agricultural products, wheelbarrows,
geodesic domes, gazebos etc. The tank holding the carbon dioxide reminds me
of a joke. One of the instructions on life saving actions mentioned in a
girl guides' manual states: If a girl falls into water, she should not
remove her clothes, because the air caught in them acts like a buoy.
Yours
A.D.Karve
----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispin@newdawn.sz>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove

> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> 26 July 2004
>
> Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users
>
> After two years of enthusiastic encouragement and advice from a number of
> actors on the international stage and much wild-eyed and off-the-wall work
> at New Dawn Engineering the news is in!
>
> It is with great celebration that we announce that an award for Design
> Excellence has been given to the Vesto single pot improved cooking stove .
> This annual award is given in recognition of Design Excellence. There are
> four entrance categories and Vesto was judged in the Houseware section.
>
> The judging criteria include: Innovation, Cost/value relationship,
> Performance, Safety and ergonomics, Environmental impact, Appearance and
> tactile aspects, Ease of maintenance and installation, Design choices made
> in materials, Manufacture and assembly.
>
> Indian Designer of the Year, Satish Gokhale was the South African Bureau
of
> Standards' Design Institute 'international expert' and he sat on the
judging
> panel that reviewed the Vesto. He was very enthusiastic about the product
> and commented that it was an item with a large export potential.
>
> The Vesto is a formal sector product designed to make an impact on the
> consumption of biomass fuels by extending their burning time, by avoiding
> the cutting of forests and by allowing for the efficient use of multiple
> fuels including waste. Made largely from stainless steel, it is an
> aspirational stove aimed at households earning $130 to $230 per month but
> with looks that appeal to much higher income groups. It is currently being
> sold in nine countries through more than 30 retail dealers. It sells for
> $41 plus tax in South Africa.
>
> It can be viewed at
>
http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/stove/singlestove/vesto/vesto1.htm
>
> With sincere thanks to all of you in the Stoves Group who contributed in
any
> way to my understanding of stoves, combustion, materials, heat flows, fuel
> types, cooking needs and testing procedures. This is a victory for all
who
> strive for the betterment of humanity - our one family sharing a common,
> planetary home.
>
> Sincerely
> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> Vesto Designer
> New Dawn Engineering
> Matsapha, Swaziland

From messinger.roth at AFRICA-ONLINE.NET Thu Jul 29 04:28:15 2004
From: messinger.roth at AFRICA-ONLINE.NET (Christa)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:18 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for Design
Excellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.102815.0200.MESSINGER.ROTH@AFRICAONLINE.NET>

Dear Crispin, on behalf of all the 'stovers' in Malawi I want to congratulate you to the award winning. Although you missed a vibrant wokshop in Malawi on institutional cookstove technologies, it was definitely worth staying in South Africa to receive the award.

Well done Crispin, I think this is well deserved.

On the ProBEC (Programme for Biomass Energy Conservation in Southern Africa) stand at the International Trade Fair in Blantyre we are among other stoves currently showing and demonstrating the Vesto and there is a lot of interest from the general public. People are asking where to buy it.
Any expansion and export possibilities to set up an outlet in Malawi????
Think about it. Let's keep in touch
Regards

Christa Roth
Advisor for Food Processing and Household Energy
Integrated Food Security Programme Mulanje
P.O. Box 438, Mulanje, Malawi, Phone +265-1-466 279, Fax -466 435
----- Original Message -----
From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
To:
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 4:49 PM
Subject: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for Design Excellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

26 July 2004

Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users

After two years of enthusiastic encouragement and advice from a number of
actors on the international stage and much wild-eyed and off-the-wall work
at New Dawn Engineering the news is in!

It is with great celebration that we announce that an award for Design
Excellence has been given to the Vesto single pot improved cooking stove .
This annual award is given in recognition of Design Excellence. There are
four entrance categories and Vesto was judged in the Houseware section.

The judging criteria include: Innovation, Cost/value relationship,
Performance, Safety and ergonomics, Environmental impact, Appearance and
tactile aspects, Ease of maintenance and installation, Design choices made
in materials, Manufacture and assembly.

Indian Designer of the Year, Satish Gokhale was the South African Bureau of
Standards' Design Institute 'international expert' and he sat on the judging
panel that reviewed the Vesto. He was very enthusiastic about the product
and commented that it was an item with a large export potential.

The Vesto is a formal sector product designed to make an impact on the
consumption of biomass fuels by extending their burning time, by avoiding
the cutting of forests and by allowing for the efficient use of multiple
fuels including waste. Made largely from stainless steel, it is an
aspirational stove aimed at households earning $130 to $230 per month but
with looks that appeal to much higher income groups. It is currently being
sold in nine countries through more than 30 retail dealers. It sells for
$41 plus tax in South Africa.

It can be viewed at
http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/stove/singlestove/vesto/vesto1.htm

With sincere thanks to all of you in the Stoves Group who contributed in any
way to my understanding of stoves, combustion, materials, heat flows, fuel
types, cooking needs and testing procedures. This is a victory for all who
strive for the betterment of humanity - our one family sharing a common,
planetary home.

Sincerely
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
Vesto Designer
New Dawn Engineering
Matsapha, Swaziland

From crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ Thu Jul 29 11:58:17 2004
From: crispin at NEWDAWN.SZ (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: DISA Awards
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.175817.0200.CRISPIN@NEWDAWN.SZ>

Dear Dr Karve

Many thanks and thanks to everyone else who replied. Things have been
hectic since Monday. There is a delay between us finding out and the
publicity surrounding the DISA (Design Institute) so that everyone can get
their ducks in a row, as we say here, with hte announcements, ads, informing
'relevant stakeholders' and so on. A memebr of the German Parliament
visited the sales areas in one of the townships in JHB today, someone
apparently famously Green.

I am sorry to have skipped the Malawi stove week and the trade fair
afterwards at which stoves are on offer. I had to make the presentation to
the panel of judges and I certainly did it with all improved cooking stove
promoters in mind. I am hopeful that this will attract attention to our
international efforts and gain more recognition for this urgent problem that
(mostly) poor people face daily.

It is hard to express my appreciation for all the assistance and pointers
that I have picked in numberless conversations with stove makers from around
the world. It is my pleasure to have assisted others with what I have now
'in my toolbox'.

The next project is a low-tech paraffin stove that will meet a CO/CO2 rate
of 2% and of course the ongoing $50 coal stove for township dwellers which
is going to be test marketed soon.

This is an interesting region to do stove development because of all the
different fuels available and there is enough money in people's pockets to
buy something worth making, if you see what I mean.

Satish Gokhale's presentation at the CSIR soire? was amazing. That guys
does some very interesting work. It is probably worth looking at if one is
interested in industrial design.

Best regards
Crispin

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Thu Jul 29 22:50:23 2004
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: [ethos] Re: [STOVES] White LED Lamp
In-Reply-To: <40C36472.7040106@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.215023.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Ken,

By now you are back from Ghana. Please tell us about your stove
experiences, but use a Subject line like Ghana stoves.

About your white LED's. Would you sell any? How about $1 each for 10 or
15? (I am stuck with the $5 price at Radio Shack.)

As you are, I am also NOT an electronics person. But I am quite interested
in what you wrote about having (you wrote):

>a voltage control circuit but this is technologically complicated ( and
expensive) for a non electronics person like myself. A voltage regulator
would allow you to uses any battery voltage for the same light and it
wouldn't need to be matched with resistors. That way lights could be mass
produced and any donated battery of any voltage would work.

End of quote.

What would be the "expense" (someone else might be able to tell us)?

Or is there a "low cost" variation that uses resistors but would be limited
to only a selected range of voltages?

LIGHT ___ IS ___ a stoves issue. As we make improved stoves, we
frequently contain the fire and deprive the people of the only light
available at night. And it is possible that the benefits of the improved
stoves could financially cover the costs of white LED lighting. Or a
simple solar cell device might daily gather the power for a few hours of
light at each night. And also remember the TED TEM (thermo-electric)
items that would ideally get their power from our stoves.

I guess I just want to press our Stovers (and others??) to keep the White
LED topic alive in our discussions.

Paul

At 11:37 AM 6/6/04 -0700, ken goyer wrote:
>Dear Crispin, I bought the LED's from Hong Kong from an auction on Ebay.
>They cost $30 for a hundred. They are bright white 10,000 mcd and should
>draw around 25 or 30 ma. They came registered mail in a week from Hong
>Kong. (Walmart beware!). You can buy more or less for varying prices. The
>first ones I bought from an electronics store and from Radio Shack cost $4
>each. I am mostly using recycled cell phone batteries to power them. The
>voltage varies with the battery and current is currently being controlled
>with a resistor. I think the best solution is to have a voltage control
>circuit but this is technologically complicated ( and expensive) for a non
>electronics person like myself. A voltage regulator would allow you to
>uses any battery voltage for the same light and it wouldn't need to be
>matched with resistors. That way lights could be mass produced and any
>donated battery of any voltage would work.
>I hope this helps. We can talk about this more in the near future but
>today I am leaving for Ghana for three weeks to help with a stove project.
>I apologize for being "off list".
>
>Best regards, Ken Goyer
>
>
>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>>Dear Stovers
>>
>>
>>>
>>>This weekend we posted Ken Goyer's pictures of his LED lamps in Mexico.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I had a look - very impressive.
>>
>>How much did the LED's cost?
>>
>>Exactly what is the power source?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Crispin
>>
>>

Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072

From hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM Thu Jul 29 22:45:20 2004
From: hseaver at CYBERSHAMANIX.COM (Harmon Seaver)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: A kettle that uses much less wood
In-Reply-To: <LISTSERV%2004070902570879@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.214520.0500.HSEAVER@CYBERSHAMANIX.COM>

On Fri, Jul 09, 2004 at 02:57:08AM -0400, Chris Smith wrote:
>
> The link at www.kellykettle.com was down at time of posting. Thank you
> for pointing out that this URL is still functional.
>
> The Kelly Kettle design as applied to scaled up fuel efficient domestic
> water heating (at the village level) is still a great idea, esp. if it can
> be done cheaply (scavenged/salvaged water heater tanks). A $600 USD price
> tag for wood burning water heaters is ridiculous, considering conventional
> water heaters can be had for much less. A case of paying for novelty. No
> wonder there's scarcity.

A friend of mine made a great wood-fired hot water heater out of a
salvaged propane-fired water heater. Just stripped off the outer shell
and built a brick/cement firebox to sit under the bottom of the tank,
with the center 4" hole in the tank as the flue, then more stove pipe
coming off the top of the tank. I'm sure something like a rocket stove
would be even more effective, but OTOH, I'm not sure how many of those
tanks you are going to find in the 3rd world where they're really
needed.

--
Harmon Seaver
CyberShamanix
http://www.cybershamanix.com
Hoka hey!

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Thu Jul 29 23:16:02 2004
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Arrangements for ETHOS stove camp
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.221602.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

Dean and others,

(I am trying to reach the 10 to 20 people on our list serves who might be
going to the ETHOS stove camp. Ignore this message if you have no
intention of attending.)

I am arranging my schedule and hope to be able to go to the ETHOS stove
camp on 20 through 23 August. Yes, I would be bringing the latest of the
Juntos charcoal-making gasifiers, and probably a surprise or two (I hope).

Assistance and information is requested about travel options and other costs.

Flying is my only option. But what about going to Portland and driving vs
getting a connection to Eugene? Are any others planning on renting a car
in Portland? Any transportation connection assistance possible?

I MUST be back in central Illinois by mid afternoon on Tuesday 24 July. I
could try for a "red-eye" flight in the late night of Monday 23 July (early
AM of Tuesday), but I would need to get from Aprovecho to
Portland. Probably some others would be in the same situation. (Almost
everything is EAST of Aprovecho!!!!!)

To be there for the start at 9 AM on Friday 20 August means arrival on
Thursday. Same questions about transportation. It would be a shame to
have extra car rentals needlessly when many of us would be arriving fairly
close to each other. I do not have any tickets yet, so I am totally open
to suggestions.

Housing: Cheap to free is my level. Share a motel room with
someone? Just looking into this now. Can Aprovecho send any suggested
places with contact phone numbers?

(not worried about food. "Have peanut butter, will travel." )

Paul (my phone number is below if quick contact is needed.)
Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072

From psanders at ILSTU.EDU Thu Jul 29 23:50:42 2004
From: psanders at ILSTU.EDU (Paul S. Anderson)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Manually powered forced air Was Re: [STOVES] Jmla Stove
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20040604215142.02127848@pop.iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.225042.0500.PSANDERS@ILSTU.EDU>

At 09:55 PM 6/4/04 +1000, Peter Verhaart wrote:
>>snip
>
>Blowing IN a pipe. You leave some distance between your mouth and the pipe
>so that the relatively high velocity jet from your mouth entrains more air
>into the pipe, resulting in less expenditure of breath and more wind into
>the fire. This can be kept up for much longer than straight blowing.

So, those interested in forced air should position the source of the force
slightly away from the opening. Therefore, an otherwise weak force of air
might just be enough.

This also raises the question of how to make a forced air unit entrain the
surrounding air and suck that air in through side holes of some
nozzle. Propane burners come in shapes/models that do that, and other
shapes that do not (with resultant differences in the fire).

Paul
Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072

From dstill at EPUD.NET Fri Jul 30 00:15:42 2004
From: dstill at EPUD.NET (Dean Still)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: [ethos] Arrangements for ETHOS stove camp
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040729215032.022351a0@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.29.JUL.2004.211542.0700.DSTILL@EPUD.NET>

Dear Paul and others interested in the ETHOS Stove Camp:

Let's see: so far as I know we now have about 4 grad students also Dr. Tami
Bond, Dr Bryan Willson, Dr. Mark Bryden attending. Then we have stove
builders from Mexico, Nepal and Kenya signed up. Perhaps three others from
the stove list and the Aprovecho crew. Very glad that Paul is coming!!!

Please for anyone coming into Portland, get in contact with Paul for a
shared ride. I think that most folks are flying into Eugene.

There are various accommodations: $35/night in the Aprovecho dorm includes
dinner! Full!!

Camping at Aprovecho: $25 night includes dinner! Bring tent, sleeping bags!!

Grad students staying at Tibetan Buddhist Monastery for $22 night includes
dinner!! Full!! Bring sleeping bags!

Cottage Grove has many hotels...check them out at:
http://www.cvalco.org/search/showcategory.html?pid=18

Hope this answers questions! Looking forward to learning a lot, adding to
human knowledge.

Best,

Dean

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Fri Jul 30 07:05:47 2004
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (TBReed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Need for Power in heat and cooking?
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.050547.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear John:

We operate our fireplace on your logs even though we have very reliable
power. I have lusted over the pellet stoves to replace gas, but they do
require some power.

The home heat pellet stoves use ~ 450 W (see
http://www.harmanstoves.com/surefire.htm for backup power) for the forced
convection combustion and forced air heating aspects of the pellet stove.
This requirement is certainly a limitation on their ability to operate in
remote locations. The pellet stove is a major advance in home heat - as
long as you have power.

1900 houses were typically built vertically and a coal furnace in the
basement could burn and distribute the air by natural convection. With the
advent of universal electricity in the US most houses are built horizontally
and rely on modest power to distribute the heat. Do we need to prepare for
a future without electric power?

Our WoodGas camp stoves use ~ 1 W from a single AA battery, lasting ~3 hours
on high and 6 hrs on low. (www.woodgas.com; www.woodgasllc.com) Much less
of a restriction, but still a dependence on power. Our natural draft stoves
can also burn pellets without any power, somewhat less intensely. I spent
15 years trying to perfect woodgas stoves without any power and gave up.

There isn't much heat generated in advanced countries that doesn't rely on
at least a small amount of power. Our 5 and 15 kW Biomax systems provide
"turnkey-tarfree" local power from pellets, chips, etc. (See
www.gocpc.com)

Are we resisting the advance of "electric civilization"? Should we try to
help the rest of the world by providing reliable electricity or trying to
figure out how to live without it? There was a big move in the nuclear days
to use "too cheap to meter" nuclear power for home heat. We've backed down
from that wasteful approach, but it is hard to dispense with electricity
entirely.

Puzzled...

TOM REED
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Olsen" <cree@DOWCO.COM>
To: <BIOENERGY@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 11:12 PM
Subject: [BIOENERGY] sawdust Pellets / densified sawdust logs

> I read with interest the continuing fascination with pellets, but, is
there
> a pellet stove which operates without electricity.?
> (I am biased, as I am in the densified logs from biomass, business)
> John Olsen
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/2004
>

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Fri Jul 30 07:17:44 2004
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (TBReed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.051744.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear ADK and All:

I like your comments on bamboo charcoal. Keep after it. Wish it grew here.
However, I question your charcoal temperatures.

It is a universal experience from the milligram scale to the tonnage scale
that the stages and temperatures of pyrolysis of all biomass are:

1) Water lost 80-110 C, endothermic
2) Chemical water and CO2 and small amounts of CH4 etc. lost 200-300 C,
endothermic
3) 80% of volatiles lost and charcoal formed 300-400 C EXOTHERMIC, so a
buffered end point
4) Remaining volatiles slowly lost in making metallurgical and activated
charcoal 400-900C

(See our book "Thermal Data for Natural and Synthetic Fuels", Marcel Dekker,
1998 and a thousand other references I could name.) Having collected this
kind of data for several decades, I would be surprised if bamboo was any
different, but if you are sure, please let me know.

Casual measurements of process temperatures often measure the temperature of
the surroundings rather than the object heated. Big difference due to heat
and mass transfer limitations.

Your admirer,

TOM REED

----- Original Message -----
From: "adkarve" <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove

> Dear Crispin,
> hearty congratulations. Mr. Satish Gokhale is personally known to me. He
is
> the son of a friend of mine. Architect Gokhale's father is a retired
> pharmacist, who owns a bamboo plantation, about 60 km from Pune. The
family
> used to own a pharmacy called Africa Drug House (I do not know why it was
> so called). He is currently collaborating with us in making charcoal from
> bamboo. Bamboo charcoal, even when produced at the normal pyrolysis
> temperature of 300 degrees celsius, acts like active charcoal. Normally
> active charcoal is produced at 700 plus degrees. Just last week I attended
a
> bamboo conference here in Pune. I met Satish Gokhale's father on that
> occasion, and he mentioned to me that his son had gone to South Africa to
> act as a judge in a design contest. I was felicitated during this
conference
> for my work on various new technologies that I introduced to increase the
> use of bamboo in India. I rediscovered and standardised a treatment, that
> retards biodegradation of bamboo, and showed that such bamboo can be used
in
> all kinds of outdoor structures, like scaffoldings for vines, fencing,
water
> tanks (large sized bamboo baskets, lined with a plastic film), open-top
> green house (in pensinsular India, we require neither heating nor cooling
to
> grow plants. The open top greenhouse consists of a skirting of plastic
film
> around the vegetable- or flower-bed. It is supported by bamboo poles. It
> acts like a tank, in which the carbon dioxide produced by the plants
during
> the night accumulates. This carbon dioxide is photosynthesised during the
> day, by the same plants that have produced it. In India, sunshine is not
the
> limiting factor, but carbon dioxide is. We get easily double the yield
with
> this simple trick), solar drier for agricultural products, wheelbarrows,
> geodesic domes, gazebos etc. The tank holding the carbon dioxide reminds
me
> of a joke. One of the instructions on life saving actions mentioned in a
> girl guides' manual states: If a girl falls into water, she should not
> remove her clothes, because the air caught in them acts like a buoy.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispin@newdawn.sz>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:19 PM
> Subject: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
> DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
>
>
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > 26 July 2004
> >
> > Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users
> >
> > After two years of enthusiastic encouragement and advice from a number
of
> > actors on the international stage and much wild-eyed and off-the-wall
work
> > at New Dawn Engineering the news is in!
> >
> > It is with great celebration that we announce that an award for Design
> > Excellence has been given to the Vesto single pot improved cooking stove
.
> > This annual award is given in recognition of Design Excellence. There
are
> > four entrance categories and Vesto was judged in the Houseware section.
> >
> > The judging criteria include: Innovation, Cost/value relationship,
> > Performance, Safety and ergonomics, Environmental impact, Appearance and
> > tactile aspects, Ease of maintenance and installation, Design choices
made
> > in materials, Manufacture and assembly.
> >
> > Indian Designer of the Year, Satish Gokhale was the South African Bureau
> of
> > Standards' Design Institute 'international expert' and he sat on the
> judging
> > panel that reviewed the Vesto. He was very enthusiastic about the
product
> > and commented that it was an item with a large export potential.
> >
> > The Vesto is a formal sector product designed to make an impact on the
> > consumption of biomass fuels by extending their burning time, by
avoiding
> > the cutting of forests and by allowing for the efficient use of multiple
> > fuels including waste. Made largely from stainless steel, it is an
> > aspirational stove aimed at households earning $130 to $230 per month
but
> > with looks that appeal to much higher income groups. It is currently
being
> > sold in nine countries through more than 30 retail dealers. It sells
for
> > $41 plus tax in South Africa.
> >
> > It can be viewed at
> >
>
http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/stove/singlestove/vesto/vesto1.htm
> >
> > With sincere thanks to all of you in the Stoves Group who contributed in
> any
> > way to my understanding of stoves, combustion, materials, heat flows,
fuel
> > types, cooking needs and testing procedures. This is a victory for all
> who
> > strive for the betterment of humanity - our one family sharing a common,
> > planetary home.
> >
> > Sincerely
> > Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> > Vesto Designer
> > New Dawn Engineering
> > Matsapha, Swaziland
>

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Fri Jul 30 08:05:38 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Manually powered forced air Was Re: [STOVES] Jmla Stove
In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20040729223028.01ce2f00@mail.ilstu.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.130538.0100.>

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:50:42 -0500, Paul S. Anderson wrote:

>At 09:55 PM 6/4/04 +1000, Peter Verhaart wrote:
>>>snip
>>
>>Blowing IN a pipe. You leave some distance between your mouth and the pipe
>>so that the relatively high velocity jet from your mouth entrains more air
>>into the pipe, resulting in less expenditure of breath and more wind into
>>the fire. This can be kept up for much longer than straight blowing.
>
>So, those interested in forced air should position the source of the force
>slightly away from the opening. Therefore, an otherwise weak force of air
>might just be enough.

This is not necessarily so, there are two things to take into account
when using your lungs to aspirate a fire, firstly the air must be less
well endowed with oxygen, because this is what you breathed it in to
extract from it. Secondly as peter Verharrt has implied it is to do
with sustaining the effort, so a smaller high velocity jet can be
sustained longer and entrain further air.

>
>This also raises the question of how to make a forced air unit entrain the
>surrounding air and suck that air in through side holes of some
>nozzle. Propane burners come in shapes/models that do that, and other
>shapes that do not (with resultant differences in the fire).

We discussed this some while back, at the time I was investigating a
steam powered aspirator. The propane burner uses a venturi to entrain
15 times it's volume of air. The power for this comes from the
pressure inherent in the storage vessel (though this is reduced by a
regulator). A similar effect is had with the paraffin stoves when the
pressure is derived from the liquid vapourising in the heat.

Other effects I looked at were simple ejectors and coanda effect
nozzles. A conclusion I came to was that these devices conserved
momentum but did not necessarily transfer much of the kinetic energy
into the combined airflow. I would still like to learn more of this,
at the time I concluded that an efficient fan was a better means of
converting mechanical power into air movement.

AJH
>
>Paul
>Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
>Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
>Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
>E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
>NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
>For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Fri Jul 30 08:05:41 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for Design
Excellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
In-Reply-To: <003601c47320$5acf4fa0$0100a8c0@md>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.130541.0100.>

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 16:49:17 +0200, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:

>With sincere thanks to all of you in the Stoves Group who contributed in any
>way to my understanding of stoves, combustion, materials, heat flows, fuel
>types, cooking needs and testing procedures. This is a victory for all who
>strive for the betterment of humanity - our one family sharing a common,
>planetary home.
>

May I add my belated congratulation on your award Crispin, well done!

AJH

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Fri Jul 30 08:21:22 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Need for Power in heat and cooking?
In-Reply-To: <029701c47625$2bcd7850$6401a8c0@TOM>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.132122.0100.>

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 05:05:47 -0600, TBReed wrote:

>Dear John:
>
>We operate our fireplace on your logs even though we have very reliable
>power. I have lusted over the pellet stoves to replace gas, but they do
>require some power.
>
>The home heat pellet stoves use ~ 450 W (see
>http://www.harmanstoves.com/surefire.htm for backup power) for the forced
>convection combustion and forced air heating aspects of the pellet stove.
>This requirement is certainly a limitation on their ability to operate in
>remote locations. The pellet stove is a major advance in home heat - as
>long as you have power.

The major electricity power use of the pellet stoves I import into UK
is the hot air ignition element. In use the induced draught fan is
<40W and, at low heat, natural convection can be used instead of the
circulation blower, the fuel feed auger and electronic control use
negligible amount, apart from this you are right and electric power is
required by these pellet stoves.

>
>Are we resisting the advance of "electric civilization"?

Not me, I am all for making electricity more widely available from
renewable sources, this is why I was happy to collaborate with David
Beedie with running a turbo generator on the offgas from our charcoal
making process, from a discussion on this list all those years ago,
1996 wasn't it?

I still think the prime need is electric power for IT, communication
and light, which probably stand a higher cost per kWhr than other uses
as well as being appropriate for de centralised, distributed PV.

AJH

From list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK Fri Jul 30 09:00:52 2004
From: list at SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK (Andrew Heggie)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Need for Power in heat and cooking?
In-Reply-To: <qfekg0tip763et5veu6atqdu4l07g81sqq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.140052.0100.>

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:21:22 +0100, Andrew Heggie wrote:

>The major electricity power use of the pellet stoves I import into UK
>is the hot air ignition element. In use the induced draught fan is
><40W and, at low heat, natural convection can be used instead of the
>circulation blower, the fuel feed auger and electronic control use
>negligible amount, apart from this you are right and electric power is
>required by these pellet stoves.

I had a fast off list response pointing me to a TEG powered device

http://www.hi-z.com/websit11.htm

AJH

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Fri Jul 30 09:23:42 2004
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (TBReed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: compact biogas system
Message-ID: <FRI.30.JUL.2004.072342.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear ADK:

Thanks for the details. It sounds as if the bacteria like food a WHOLE lot
more than dung.

Being in the business, I should think that your friend could afford a 1 day
experiment leaving out the dung and seeing if the FOOD flora do better or
worse. If worse, he can always go back. Running simple experiments seems
to elude most people.

Onward,

TOM REED
----- Original Message -----
From: "adkarve" <adkarve@pn2.vsnl.net.in>
To: "TBReed" <tombreed@COMCAST.NET>
Cc: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] compact biogas system

> Dear Tom,
> The system that I mentioned in my previous mail produces 16 cubic meters
of
> biogas, using 16 kg of oilcake of non-edible oilseeds, once every 24hours.
> One would require 40 kg dung and fermentation period of 40 days to produce
> the same quantity of biogas. Because of the residual oil and the high
> protein content of the oilcake, its calorific value is much greater than
> that of starch from cereal grains, rhizomes or tubers. As a result, this
> particular system is 1600 times as efficient as the conventional biogas
> plants. Another person, with whom we are collaborating, has a biogas plant
> producing daily 40 cubic meters of gas. He used to feed it daily with 1000
> kg dung, but now he is using daily a mixture of 200 kg cattle dung and 15
kg
> sorghum grain flour. He is reluctant to switch over completely to sorghum,
> as he feels that the bacteria may go on strike if they did not get their
> daily dose of dung. In his case, he replaces 800 kg dung by 15 kg flour
and
> reduces the reaction time from 40 days to one day. He thus gets an
> efficiency that is 2000 times that of the traditional system.
> In the moving dome reactors that we use, the gas holder telescopes into
the
> fermenter. Therefore, the total volume of the system is twice that of the
> volume of the gas that you expect to get from it. Now that we have
achieved
> a higher efficiency of biogas generation, we are thinking of delinking the
> fermenter from the gas holder, similar to the new air-conditioners, in
which
> the noisy compressor is kept out of the room and only the delivery
mechanism
> for the cool air is inside the room.
> Yours
> Nandu
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: TBReed <tombreed@COMCAST.NET>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [STOVES] compact biogas system
>
>
> > Dear ADK and All:
> >
> > You are to be congratulated on a breakthrough in making biogas
> >
> > 2CH2O + Smart little bacteria ===> CH4 + CO2 (A disproportionation
> reaction
> > that looks easy on paper, but chemists can't do it)
> >
> > I have never been enthusiastic about digester gas because it required
lots
> > of manure/sewage, very large reactors and lots of time to produce small
> > amounts of gas. Not surprising, since the digestive tracks that produced
> the
> > manure/sewage had already extracted most of the useful energy.
> >
> > With your new process you are feeding foodlike materials to the
digester,
> so
> > it isn't surprising that you get much higher yields.
> >
> > It would be useful if you could convert your figures into m3 of gas/m3
of
> > reactor/day and compare to manure/sewage digestion figures. I believe
you
> > are 2 to 20 times more efficient/smaller/quicker, but I'd like to see
some
> > figures.
> >
> > ~~~~~~`
> > Since the name "Biogas" has been used to describe the digestion of
> > sewage/manure, I suggest you find a new name for your gas and process to
> > differentiate the two.
> >
> >
> > ~~~~~~~
> > In 1978 we also compared modern digesters sto the champion of all
> digesters,
> > the cow. (Holy Cow!) How many m3 of cow stomach does it take to digest
X
> kg
> > of grass, and how does that compare to your process.
> >
> > Your pal and admirer,
> >
> > TOM REED
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "adkarve" <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
> > To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 10:37 AM
> > Subject: [STOVES] compact biogas system
> >
> >
> > > Dear Stovers,
> > > We are now collaborating with a voluntary organisation formed by a
group
> > of
> > > engineers.A school hostel in the town of Jawhar, Dist. Thane,
> Maharashtra,
> > > has a biogas plant having a capacity of producing daily 16cubic meters
> of
> > > biogas. Following my advice, they shifted to using oilcake of locally
> > > available non-edible oilseed cake as the feedstock. They get daily 16
> > cubic
> > > meters of biogas, using just 16 kg of the oilcake, which costs them
only
> > > Rs.32 or USCents 70. The cake comes from three species, namely,
Pongamia
> > > pinnata, Madhuka indica and Jatropha curcas.A colleague from the
> > engineers'
> > > voluntary organisation tested a petrol driven electricity generator on
> > this
> > > biogas. They could generate electricity by running the generator
> entirely
> > on
> > > biogas. A fortnight ago, I tested our biogas on a diesel-driven
> > electricity
> > > generator. This generator could however replace only about 70% of the
> > total
> > > diesel.
> > > Yours
> > > A.D.Karve
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tom Miles <tmiles@TRMILES.COM>
> > > To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 12:16 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [STOVES] ARTI videos in compressed avi format
> > >
> > >
> > > > Grant, Andrew and Dr. Karve,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your tireless efforts. I downloaded the files from
HEDON
> > > > with no problems on a standrd DSL connection. I have placed a link
to
> > your
> > > > downbload site on Biomass Cooking Stoves and will in time also put
the
> > > > files on the stoves site.
> > > > http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:22:00 +0100, Grant Ballard-Tremeer
> > > > <stoves@ECOHARMONY.COM> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Dear Stovers
> > > > >
> > > > >As Andrew Heggie reported some weeks ago, he transferred the two
> video
> > > > >files to me via FTP (taking many hours of high-speed transfer -
> thanks
> > > > >Andrew!). I have since converted and compressed them so that the
> files
> > > > >are now more than 10 times smaller and picture quality and size
> > > > >reasonable (although certainly not as good as the original). These,
> > > > >with Dr Karve's permission, are available to download at:
> > > > >
> > > > >www.hedon.info/goto.php/ARTI
> > > > >
> > > > >Click on the 'Videos' link in the table of contents to jump
directly
> > > > >to the download links. At about 15MB for the sugar-cane charcoal
> > > > >briquette video and 23MB for the bamboo video, the downloads are
> still
> > > > >not easily accessible unless you have high-speed broadband access
(at
> > > > >normal dial-up access speeds you will take over an hour to download
> > > > >each video, but less than 5 minutes on a reasonable ADSL line).
> > > > >
> > > > >Tom - maybe these two files could also be placed on the 'stoves'
> > > > >website?
> > > > >
> > > > >Regards
> > > > >Grant
> > > > >
> > > > >PS. The format is DIV-X (.avi) which most of you should be able to
> > > > >play without any extra codecs, but on older systems some may need
to
> > > > >download some extra drivers. file://G
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Grant Ballard-Tremeer PhD, CEng MIMechE, MEI
> > > > >Visit Eco on the web at http://ecoharmony.com
> > > > >HEDON Household Energy Network http://hedon.info
> > > > >SPARKNET Knowledge Network http://sparknet.info
> > > > >Partners for Africa http://partners4africa.org
> > > > >Breathe Easy Network India http://india.shellfoundation.net
> > > > >About me: http://hedon.info/goto.php/User:GrantBallard-Tremeer
> > > > >-------------------
>
>

From adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN Fri Jul 30 23:34:48 2004
From: adkarve at PN2.VSNL.NET.IN (adkarve)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004
forDesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
Message-ID: <SAT.31.JUL.2004.090448.0530.ADKARVE@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>

Dear Tom,
I have not tested the iodine value, but can get it done. My knowledge about
bamboo charcoal being active charcoal comes only from the internet, and also
from the experience of some friends of mine who obtained bamboo charcoal
from me after reading that the Japanese used bamboo
charcoal powder to line the walls of their houses before papering them over.
The charcoal absorbed malodorous organic substances in the atmosphere in the
room. My friends tested our bamboo charcoal by keeping the lumps in their
refrigerators. They reported that the refrigerators were deodorized after
this treatment.
Yours Nandu
----- Original Message -----
From: TBReed <tombreed@comcast.net>
To: adkarve <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004
forDesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove

> Dear ADK:
>
> PS: Reading again, I notice that you said ACTIVATED charcoal was produced
> at 300 C from bamboo rather than the usual 700C. Amazing!
>
> Do you have iodine or starch numbers for that charcoal? Even cooking
> charcoal (400-450C) has an iodine number of ~100, but activated charcoal
> should be at least >800.
>
> Tom Reed The Biomass Energy Foundation
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "adkarve" <adkarve@PN2.VSNL.NET.IN>
> To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 9:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
> DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
>
>
> > Dear Crispin,
> > hearty congratulations. Mr. Satish Gokhale is personally known to me.
He
> is
> > the son of a friend of mine. Architect Gokhale's father is a retired
> > pharmacist, who owns a bamboo plantation, about 60 km from Pune. The
> family
> > used to own a pharmacy called Africa Drug House (I do not know why it
was
> > so called). He is currently collaborating with us in making charcoal
from
> > bamboo. Bamboo charcoal, even when produced at the normal pyrolysis
> > temperature of 300 degrees celsius, acts like active charcoal. Normally
> > active charcoal is produced at 700 plus degrees. Just last week I
attended
> a
> > bamboo conference here in Pune. I met Satish Gokhale's father on that
> > occasion, and he mentioned to me that his son had gone to South Africa
to
> > act as a judge in a design contest. I was felicitated during this
> conference
> > for my work on various new technologies that I introduced to increase
the
> > use of bamboo in India. I rediscovered and standardised a treatment,
that
> > retards biodegradation of bamboo, and showed that such bamboo can be
used
> in
> > all kinds of outdoor structures, like scaffoldings for vines, fencing,
> water
> > tanks (large sized bamboo baskets, lined with a plastic film), open-top
> > green house (in pensinsular India, we require neither heating nor
cooling
> to
> > grow plants. The open top greenhouse consists of a skirting of plastic
> film
> > around the vegetable- or flower-bed. It is supported by bamboo poles. It
> > acts like a tank, in which the carbon dioxide produced by the plants
> during
> > the night accumulates. This carbon dioxide is photosynthesised during
the
> > day, by the same plants that have produced it. In India, sunshine is not
> the
> > limiting factor, but carbon dioxide is. We get easily double the yield
> with
> > this simple trick), solar drier for agricultural products, wheelbarrows,
> > geodesic domes, gazebos etc. The tank holding the carbon dioxide reminds
> me
> > of a joke. One of the instructions on life saving actions mentioned in a
> > girl guides' manual states: If a girl falls into water, she should not
> > remove her clothes, because the air caught in them acts like a buoy.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispin@newdawn.sz>
> > To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
> > Sent: Monday, July 26, 2004 8:19 PM
> > Subject: [STOVES] Design Institute of South Africa Award 2004 for
> > DesignExcellence bestowed on the Vesto Stove
> >
> >
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > > Preview Only - Not For Distribution To The Media
> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > >
> > > 26 July 2004
> > >
> > > Dear Improved Stove Designers, Manufacturers and Users
> > >
> > > After two years of enthusiastic encouragement and advice from a number
> of
> > > actors on the international stage and much wild-eyed and off-the-wall
> work
> > > at New Dawn Engineering the news is in!
> > >
> > > It is with great celebration that we announce that an award for Design
> > > Excellence has been given to the Vesto single pot improved cooking
stove
> .
> > > This annual award is given in recognition of Design Excellence. There
> are
> > > four entrance categories and Vesto was judged in the Houseware
section.
> > >
> > > The judging criteria include: Innovation, Cost/value relationship,
> > > Performance, Safety and ergonomics, Environmental impact, Appearance
and
> > > tactile aspects, Ease of maintenance and installation, Design choices
> made
> > > in materials, Manufacture and assembly.
> > >
> > > Indian Designer of the Year, Satish Gokhale was the South African
Bureau
> > of
> > > Standards' Design Institute 'international expert' and he sat on the
> > judging
> > > panel that reviewed the Vesto. He was very enthusiastic about the
> product
> > > and commented that it was an item with a large export potential.
> > >
> > > The Vesto is a formal sector product designed to make an impact on the
> > > consumption of biomass fuels by extending their burning time, by
> avoiding
> > > the cutting of forests and by allowing for the efficient use of
multiple
> > > fuels including waste. Made largely from stainless steel, it is an
> > > aspirational stove aimed at households earning $130 to $230 per month
> but
> > > with looks that appeal to much higher income groups. It is currently
> being
> > > sold in nine countries through more than 30 retail dealers. It sells
> for
> > > $41 plus tax in South Africa.
> > >
> > > It can be viewed at
> > >
> >
>
http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/stove/singlestove/vesto/vesto1.htm
> > >
> > > With sincere thanks to all of you in the Stoves Group who contributed
in
> > any
> > > way to my understanding of stoves, combustion, materials, heat flows,
> fuel
> > > types, cooking needs and testing procedures. This is a victory for
all
> > who
> > > strive for the betterment of humanity - our one family sharing a
common,
> > > planetary home.
> > >
> > > Sincerely
> > > Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> > > Vesto Designer
> > > New Dawn Engineering
> > > Matsapha, Swaziland
> >
>
>

From tombreed at COMCAST.NET Sat Jul 31 09:43:28 2004
From: tombreed at COMCAST.NET (TBReed)
Date: Tue Aug 10 18:31:19 2004
Subject: Manually powered forced air: The "Ejector effect" and the
"Coanda effect"; FIREPIPES
Message-ID: <SAT.31.JUL.2004.074328.0600.TOMBREED@COMCAST.NET>

Dear All:

Ain't Physics grand, especially the ejector effect and the Coanda effect! It's amazing how a simple demonstration of an effect plus understanding the physics can lead to new inventions.
~~~~~~~~~~
Here's a simple test for the ejector effect, ie
"a jet of air from a nozzle entrains its own weight of air approximately every 5 diameters. Momentum is conserved, so that a jet of a small amount (m1) of high velocity (V1) air can move a large quantity (m1+m2) of low velocity (V2) air.

m1V1 = (m1+m2) V2

Pucker up like to whistle (~1/8" nozzle)and blow a strong jet of air at your hand. You can feel/see the force at an inch or two; you can feel the cooling at 4-6 inches. At 1 ft you feel nothing because more and more air is moving slower and slower.

Now roll up a piece of 8 1/2 X 11 paper into an 8 1/2" "pipe", 1 1/2" in diameter, secure with rubber band or scotch tape. Keeping the pipe against your mouth and your hand 2 inches from the end of the pipe, blow a strong jet of air into the pipe. Your hand feels nothing! (The quantity of air is very small and the velocity has been attenuated by entrainment of air inside the pipe). Now gradually move hand and pipe away from mouth. When the pipe is ~1" from your mouth you will feel a cooling effect comparable to that at 3" without the pipe. As you increase mouth to pipe distance the cooling diminishes.

All firemakers should use a piece of PVC pipe as a "firepipe" for fanning the fire and avoid smoke inhalation. I wonder if cavemen knew about this and used hollow bones. I wonder if distributing firepipes to village cookers could decrease lung disease. I once damaged my lungs and coughed for a year by trying to light a fire with wet wood plus blowing on it close. Wish I had known about the firemaker pipe.
~~~~~~~~~`
For the Coanda effect (a flowing fluid follows a curved and preferably bumpy surface), see

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/coanda.htm
http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/coanda.shtml
and many more.

You can amaze your friends at dinner parties by blowing out a candle behind a glass or by blowing at right angles to the flame around a glass.

Thanks to Pete, Paul and all for bringing this up. Incidentally, when you increase the volume of air by tenfold in blowing on a fire, the small (<50%?) depletion of the oxygen by your lungs in your jet is insignificant.
Your wondering friend,

TOM REED

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Heggie" <list@SYLVA.ICUKLIVE.CO.UK>
To: <STOVES@LISTSERV.REPP.ORG>
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: [STOVES] Manually powered forced air Was Re: [STOVES] Jmla Stove

> On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 22:50:42 -0500, Paul S. Anderson wrote:
>
> >At 09:55 PM 6/4/04 +1000, Peter Verhaart wrote:
> >>>snip
> >>
> >>Blowing IN a pipe. You leave some distance between your mouth and the pipe
> >>so that the relatively high velocity jet from your mouth entrains more air
> >>into the pipe, resulting in less expenditure of breath and more wind into
> >>the fire. This can be kept up for much longer than straight blowing.
> >
> >So, those interested in forced air should position the source of the force
> >slightly away from the opening. Therefore, an otherwise weak force of air
> >might just be enough.
>
> This is not necessarily so, there are two things to take into account
> when using your lungs to aspirate a fire, firstly the air must be less
> well endowed with oxygen, because this is what you breathed it in to
> extract from it. Secondly as peter Verharrt has implied it is to do
> with sustaining the effort, so a smaller high velocity jet can be
> sustained longer and entrain further air.
>
> >
> >This also raises the question of how to make a forced air unit entrain the
> >surrounding air and suck that air in through side holes of some
> >nozzle. Propane burners come in shapes/models that do that, and other
> >shapes that do not (with resultant differences in the fire).
>
> We discussed this some while back, at the time I was investigating a
> steam powered aspirator. The propane burner uses a venturi to entrain
> 15 times it's volume of air. The power for this comes from the
> pressure inherent in the storage vessel (though this is reduced by a
> regulator). A similar effect is had with the paraffin stoves when the
> pressure is derived from the liquid vapourising in the heat.
>
> Other effects I looked at were simple ejectors and coanda effect
> nozzles. A conclusion I came to was that these devices conserved
> momentum but did not necessarily transfer much of the kinetic energy
> into the combined airflow. I would still like to learn more of this,
> at the time I concluded that an efficient fan was a better means of
> converting mechanical power into air movement.
>
> AJH
> >
> >Paul
> >Paul S. Anderson, Ph.D.
> >Dept of Geography - Geology (Box 4400), Illinois State University
> >Normal, IL 61790-4400 Voice: 309-438-7360; FAX: 309-438-5310
> >E-mail: psanders@ilstu.edu - Internet items: www.ilstu.edu/~psanders
> >NOTE: Retired from teaching. Active in Stoves development.
> >For fastest contact, please call home phone: 309-452-7072
>