[Terrapreta] Niels Bech's flash pyrolysis

[Robert Klein]

Hi Sean

Like Tom, I have come across a couple of attempts to
exploit straw in the past.

First off. it must be transported to a factory.  That
is a bad economic mistake that will add around twenty
dollars to a ton at the least.

Secondly,which it is why it is available, biological
reduction is not an option.  If we could feed it to a
cow, all would be happy.

Thirdly, it is tough to grind and process also jumping
industrial costs.

That leaves us with only the on site option to solve
the problem, and the system then has to be sized to
the needs of the field.

This makes my biochar modified incinerator option a
viable choice from the get go.  It also means that any
field system must also be looked at seriously, such as
a pyrolysis unit.

A successful pyrolysis unit may produce an economic
product that is easily transportable, whereas a
biochar unit can only return product to the local
soil.

In any event, the pyrolysis unit must be designed to
efficiently grab a large bale of straw and then
swiftly reduce it to oil and char.  It might be
possible.  And if it is on a truck, then it can move
on to the next field.  However, the phrase is swiftly,
and grinding to a powder is neither swift or cheap. 
Which means we are quickly back to a giant oven on a
truck using the system  I described.

arclein



--- "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com> wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> Why did they fail?  Was there ever any attempt to
> process straw, not into pyrolysis oil, but rather
> only into biochar?
> 
> SKB
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Tom Miles<mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> 
>   To: 'terra
> preta'<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
>   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:05 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Niels Bech's flash
> pyrolysis
> 
> 
>   Doug, 
> 
>   Thanks for the link. Niels Bech is apparently a
> Phd student in the CHEC
>   group under Kim Dam-Johansen at the Danish
> Technological University. This is
>   an excellent research team that has worked on the
> pyrolysis and combustion
>   of straws and other biomass for many years.    
> 
>   This is a flash pyrolysis process for producing
> oil with a char byproduct
>   similar to those of Dynamotive and Ensyn in
> Canada. If you scale up the
>   process it will be a fixed plant that will look
> very much like those offered
>   by these commercial groups.
> 
>   We'll follow up on their research.
> 
>   All attempts at mobile or portable (at field side)
> processing of straws that
>   I have known of for the last 36 years into any
> form have failed. 
> 
>   Tom
>     
>    
>   > -----Original Message-----
>   > From:
>
terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org>
> [mailto:terrapreta-
>   >
>
bounces at bioenergylists.org<mailto:bounces at bioenergylists.org>]
> On Behalf Of Robert Klein
>   > Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 7:59 PM
>   > To: Douglas Clayton
>   > Cc: terra preta
>   > Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Niels Bech's flash
> pyrolysis
>   > 
>   > 
>   > A nice setup, but i am not sure this can add
> much.
>   > Grinding fuel in a low volume environment is
> great for
>   > running experiments, but not so great for
> industrial
>   > scale were we would immediately switch to coal.
>   > 
>   > I would love to see a literature review article
> that
>   > organizes the known and puts it behind us.  Huge
>   > amount of work went into this in second world
> war
>   > germany and was briefly revived during the first
>   > energy crisis.
>   > 
>   > We have to appeciate that terra preta carbon was
>   > largely produced at a fairly low temperature,
> and any
>   > system we now use will have to burn the
> volatiles in
>   > order to make the same low temperature char.  As
>   > desribed in my posts on incinerator
> modification.
>   > 
>   > Any other scheme will be rube goldberg mess.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- Douglas Clayton
>
<dnclayton at wildblue.net<mailto:dnclayton at wildblue.net>>
> wrote:
>   > 
>   > > Sorry that link didn't work as intended.  The
> google
>   > > search does bring
>   > > it right up.
>   > >
>   > > Doug
>   > >
>   > >
>   > > On Aug 12, 2007, at 11:17 AM, Douglas Clayton
> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > >
>   > > > A friend just suggested I google  Niels Bech
> flash
>   > > pyrolysis.  I
>   > > > suggest you all do the same.  I have not
> been able
>   > > to keep up with
>   > > > posts to the tp list but do not believe
> Niels Bech
>   > > has been mentioned:
>   > > >
>   > > >
>
http://www.chec.kt.dtu.dk/Research/<http://www.chec.kt.dtu.dk/Research/>
>   > > >
>   > >
>   >
>
Experimental%20Facilities%20within%20CHEC/Flash%20Pyrolysis.aspx
>   > > >
> 
> 
>   > > Douglas Clayton
> 
> 
>   _______________________________________________
>   Terrapreta mailing list
>  
>
Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>  
>
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/>
>  
>
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org<http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/>
>  
>
http://info.bioenergylists.org<http://info.bioenergylists.org/>
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> Terrapreta mailing list
> Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
>
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org



       
____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's 
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. 
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222