[Terrapreta] Day59 on a typical 90day corn seed.

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Robert,

"... use the sound unit on the field ..."  Are all of the plants in the field "hearing" the same sound and responding similarly?  Always positively?  Are there "silent" controls?  It might truly be curious, if the huge microbe population in the soil, from it having charcoal apartment buildings in it for them, now hear and respond to the sounds we send them?  It's altogether GAIA.

Just today, I saw Richard Haard saying he saw from soil test data, more organic matter in the charcoal amended soil, that he made in Washington State, at Four Corners Nursery (a wee jaunt for you in a plane trip to your northeast).  This is a repeated initial observation of one made similarly by Dr. Christoph Steiner of soil in Brazil, which he had amended with charcoal; it had a larger more active microbial population!

Additionally, Richard said he is having a mid-season harvest of plants (Swiss Chard) grown in charcoal amended soil being tested with an elemental spectrographic analysis, for a long list of elements (see the previous E-MAIL from Richard Haard).  He had just the soil tested earlier (as there were no plants yet).  I think it was with both a "proximate analysis" and a nutrient analysis.  He is repeating the soil testing in the out years, after only its initial amendment of charcoal and without adding any external fertility, to see how the charcoal amended soil "holds" the levels of the nutrients he has showing in the "baseline" tests at planting.  It could be useful, later maybe, to put the plant wastes or pyrolized biomass back onto the soil and see if it further increases the microbial population or nutrient "holding" capacity?

You might consider if its important to do this level of testing and re-measurement testing of the soil, at SAFFE too, in the out years.
I think it could be expensive, especially if the experiments are designed too large.  Perhaps in some certain, limited, but more focused ways, though, it could be beneficial to do some for your benefit and for our joint work?  I think trying to repeat the observations of past experimenters with Terra Preta is one of the more useful focuses now for doing this testing.  The Scientific method build theories this way.

I say this because the issue regarding increased nutrient "holding capacity in the out years issue is another of the documented Terra Preta experimentalist, Dr. Christoph Steiner's, observations; the charcoal amended soil does appear to "hold" nutrients better than un-amended soil (he saw this still after four years later).  The two of these; 1) high microbial activity and 2) the increased nutrient "holding" capacity may very well be tied together and a key part of the whole "Terra Preta" phenomenon.  This said, it does not to mention or explain the apparent incredible benefits for the plants growing in the charcoal amended soils.  It seems like it may be evidence for a systemic improvement, though.   We just don't know all the parts to it yet, but we do, I think, maybe know a couple, if we can see these two observed signs of changes in the soil characteristics, AGAIN, in soil on a different continent.

These two simple hypothesis; about 1) increased microbial population and 2) increased nutrient "holding" capacity being both beneficial to the plant and the soil organic systems are the root reasons for this type of testing and it gets at the root of answering these two questions.  It gives us a lab quantified measure for both, that can be made on any test subject soil and the gradient of the change is obvious.

There may be many more observable, extraneous, prolonged, or short lived changes and benefits that come from the Terra Preta soil as it matures and "grows".  But, if we can follow just a couple of measurements and see that the soil begins to exhibit what other soil with charcoal amendment begins to exhibit, then we will have something useful to do.  It would be like "Rinse and repeat", but a little more complicated and more times and places.  We may not know what or how it all works, but we might just be able to repeat it in any soil and wait to see?

If we can see and document any of these kinds of changes repeatedly in diverse soils, then we need only follow up with the plan for doing it globally.  We will have found a way that makes Terra Preta everywhere.  The Terra Preta we "grow" can do the rest of its work for itself (and our work for us), perhaps over time.

Richard wants to see if this happens in Washington State.  You can see if this happens in China.  With Christoph Steiner's experience, we may have a better theory on how Terra Preta is working, when we can reproduce the same similar effects on three separate continents.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Flanagan<mailto:saffechina at gmail.com> 
  To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
  Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:45 PM
  Subject: Re: Day59 on a typical 90day corn seed.


  Hey Sean,

  I will forward your request for data to both Dr Zhong and his student Mr Lee in the hope they will carry out all the tests and give us all a better understanding of what's really going on.

  I'm just put some pictures and a clip together to try and give you a better understanding of whats going on. The first four pictures are at the very end of the field and have no nutrient addition but you can see see a clear difference between the plots with the biochar (the bigger plants) the next four are the pic's I already sent you but I added a clip at the end starting with the vinegar, vinegar+biochar, seaweed extract then seaweed extract + biochar! Sorry I didn't add more info but I've got to run out so I just knocked it together. 

  The field has a soil pH of 7 and the water is feed from a stream at the far end of the field so all plots look like they get the same amount of water but the tests you requested should give us a better idea if this is true regarding nutrient distribution. 

  I also use the sound unit on the field for two hours first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening. And yes bamboo is a very important crop for the future and this year we've already transplanted the seedlings from our trial into pots with 10% biochar. Later this year we're setting up a larger field trail to measure the effects of using sound + nutrient and hopefully biochar as well. 

  Have to run,

  Rob.

   
  On 8/26/07, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>> wrote: 
    Hi Rob,

    The corn shown in the middle in the pictures (in charcoal amended soil?) is visibly different than the immediately surrounding stalks.  The irrigation looks different, too, than what I have seen for row corn, and I wonder where the water travels from?  I think surface waters potentially have more or different nutrients than well water.  Is it hard water?  What is the soil type?  Is it alkaline or acidic? 
    Dr. A.D. Karve mentioned the importance of micronutrients.  It would be interesting to find out how closely your fertility management practices in China are to those in India.  There was a Dr. Reddy, also in India, on the list too, who was growing crops with micronutrients and an alkaline resistant tree, he was making charcoal from.  He would be very interesting for you to talk to. 

    Richard mentioned testing the soil in the out years (2+) and Christoph Steiner tested to see what fertility the soil had maintained, then, after discontinued fertilization, but continued plantings.  The microbial activity in the charcoal amended soil Richard noted as well, which Christoph also mentioned.  This is an exciting repeat of an experimental observation with Terra Preta, when it was formed in a different soil type! 

    Do you intend to test the soil for microbe populations, nutrients, and proximate analysis, etc?  Will you do this to amended soil without fertilization?  Will you weigh or otherwise test the biomass produced on the test plots?      

    Your sound enhanced germination of bamboo seedlings looks very interesting.  That fast growing bamboo feedstock could be your greatest feedstock for wood vinegar and charcoal, heh?

    Row on.

    SKB


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Robert Flanagan<mailto:saffechina at gmail.com> 
      To: Richard Haard<mailto:richrd at nas.com> ; Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
      Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 6:31 PM
      Subject: Day59 on a typical 90day corn seed.

       
      Hey Richard,

      Thought you might be interested in seeing the update of my corn trial. As you can see we've already got corn ready to eat and at day59 this appears to be quite early. I've requested that Dr Zhong sends his student out to collect data to give us a better understanding of what's going on. So the biggest question I have is where did all the nutrients come from? I'm only spraying a supplement of mostly micro nutrients to the leafs but have used no soil fertility program (organic or mineral). Dr Zhongs student also processed some of the data from our sound experiment and it clearly shows again that sound has  a major impact on seed germination (mosa bamboo has a typical germination rate of about 20% and takes about 1mt to grow to 10cm) a publication will follow. 

      Keep up the great work,

      Rob.


      -- 
      Robert Flanagan
      Chairman & President
      Hangzhou Sustainable Agricultural Food & Fuel Enterprise Co., Ltd.

      Skype "saffechina"
      Tel:   86-571-881-850-67
      Cell:  86-130-189-959-57 



      -- 
      Robert Flanagan
      Chairman & President
      Hangzhou Sustainable Agricultural Food & Fuel Enterprise Co., Ltd.

      Skype "saffechina"
      Tel:   86-571-881-850-67 
      Cell:  86-130-189-959-57 



  -- 
  Robert Flanagan
  Chairman & President
  Hangzhou Sustainable Agricultural Food & Fuel Enterprise Co., Ltd. 

  Skype "saffechina"
  Tel:   86-571-881-850-67
  Cell:  86-130-189-959-57 
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