[Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...

[Tom Miles]

I never claim to be on solid ground, especially with global warming. 

 

Tom

 

 

From: Sean K. Barry [mailto:sean.barry at juno.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:59 PM
To: 'Gerald Van Koeverden'; Tom Miles
Cc: 'Terrapreta preta'
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...

 

Hi Tom,

 

Here is maybe an odd question.  Because of the higher latitude, I wonder if
the ground in Canadian Miscanthus fields is more solid in April than the
ground under Iowa switch grass fields?

 

Regards,

 

SKB

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Tom Miles <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>  

To: 'Gerald <mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>  Van Koeverden' ; 'Sean K. Barry'
<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>  

Cc: 'Terrapreta preta' <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>  

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:47 PM

Subject: RE: [Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...

 

Gerrit,


This is essentially the same question as the one I asked earlier in the
week. Where is the field experience with chars from grasses and crop
residues? Miscanthus is just another grass.  

 

We found harvesting switchgrass in Iowa that the argument for Spring harvest
to reduce ash falls apart for practical reasons. You can't depend on the
ground being solid enough in Spring to complete the harvest. 

 

Tom  

 

 

 

From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
[mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Gerald Van
Koeverden
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:26 PM
To: Sean K. Barry
Cc: Terrapreta preta
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...

 

Ash content of miscanthus:  It's similar to switchgrass in that if harvested
in the fall, 2.5% ash; but if left for harvest into April, only 1%

 

 

 

 

On 5-Dec-07, at 9:21 PM, Sean K. Barry wrote:






Hi Gerrit,

 

I think Miscanthus giganteus could be made into charcoal.  It has a very
high biomass yield per acre.  It is a perennial grass.  If it is dried and
chopped, I do not see why it could not be carbonized using a pyrolysis
reaction.  I think it might make a very fine char.  Fine, in the sense that
it is small particulate size.  I wonder if the ash content of the charcoal
might be higher than chars made from other biomass (for instance oak, which
has very low ash content)?

 

Regards,

 

SKB

----- Original Message -----

From: Gerald Van <mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>  Koeverden

To: Terrapreta preta <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 

Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:21 PM

Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...

 

Lou,

 

Here in Canada, it seems that researchers have practically given up on trees
like poplar and willow for fuel (7-10 tons odm/acre) for our temperate
climate;  switchgrass hasn't caught on either.  At present, the local buzz
is about cold-tolerant varieties of miscanthus - 15 tons odm/acre.  Either
for directly heating vegetable greenhouses or for the 'imminent'(?)
cellulose-to-ethanol route...  Miscnathus stands can apparently produce for
30 years after one planting with virtually no fertilization.

 

Of course, this wouldn't produce charcoal, unless one is using pyrolysis as
the treatment process.  But even then, would first, the quality of char
produced be good enough for long-term soil amendment? and secondly, the char
would probably be sold for an industrial application anyways to maximize
returns from investment...

 

The only advantage of planting miscanthus for energy, would be its
carbon-neutral status...

 

Gerrit

 

On 5-Dec-07, at 8:39 AM, lou gold wrote:






Oooops, I missed the "wood for charcoal question". This one is complex and
there is no way I can do it justice. Here are just a few considerations...

1. Again, it is most paramount that primary forests are not cut for this
purpose. 

2. Here in Brazil, eucalyptus is grown for charcoal on a huge scale. It even
fuels the iron foundries. This is what you do when there is no cheap coal
available. I am told told that there are better and worse ways to do it.
Cutting primary forests for the first round of charcoal and replacing them
with eucalyptus plantations is a bad way. Vast eucalyptus monocultures are a
bad way. Placing eucalyptus stands as one of several crops in a diversified
farming operation is a good way. 

3. I'm very uneasy about the new ethanol from cellulose approach with
genetically modified trees but I'm not qualified to have a real intelligent
judgment here.

4, I would vastly prefer to see wood wastes go into producing char for the
soil instead of for fuel or co-generation. 

OK, that's a start -- barely scratches the surface I'm sure. 

hugs,   lou





On Dec 5, 2007 11:14 AM, lou gold <lou.gold at gmail.com > wrote:

Hmmm. Did ya watch the video? It clearly states that soil and water are the
main limiting factors. Therefore, if you want to have plants and trees
pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere, you better work on soil fertility and its
ability to retain water. Perfect tasks for TP. 

I don't consider myself as a spokesperson for the tree-huggers. Actually,
across the past year, Terra Preta maybe transforming my awareness and
ideology more toward conscious farming. The main inspiration of TP for me is
that the El Dorado story says that once there was a civilization of high
density populations living in harmony with nature and  forests. This is very
contrary to the history of western civilization which advanced via
deforestation. Indeed, it is so different that it might constitute a vitally
necessary paradigm shift and carry us from the issues of scarcity into the
joys of abundance. I don't know that this is true. I suspect it might be. I
want to find out. 

I believe strongly that we need to stop logging any more intact primary
forests. A complete halt is unlikely. All steps of avoided or reduced
deforestation need to be rewarded. Carbon credits are a good way.

As far as as intelligent forest management is concerned, I recommend that
you check out the Menominee Tribal Forest which has won many awards and
recognitions. http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html 

hugs,

lou

 

On Dec 5, 2007 10:12 AM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net > wrote:

Dear David and Lou

Most of us on the Terra Preta List have an "environmentally responsible
leaning", a sense of beauty, and an appreciation of the good things a
tree can do. However, what I see is that extremism seldom works in an 
optimal manner. Mother Nature is smart, and she seems to favor
diversity. It is absolutely impossible for Man to exist on this Earth
without interacting with Mother Nature. Either we get Divorced and one
of us leaves, or we find ways that we can live on Earth in a sustainable 
basis. Otherwise, one of us will die, and the other will be seriously
injured.

As Representatives of our "Resident Tree Huggers", what would you and
David recommend as tree cutting guidelines  acceptable to the Tree Huggers? 

Under what conditions would the Tree Hugging Community agree to using
wood as a source of carbon for Terra Preta?

Kevin


lou gold wrote:
> Good Morning to All, 
>
> Another good one from ABC.
> http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm
>
> I draw the lesson that if one wants trees and other plants to capture 
> carbon it's best to work on renewing the soil.
>
> hugs,   lou
>
>

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-- 
http://lougold.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/




-- 
http://lougold.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/

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