[Terrapreta] publicizing online help wanted service
Sean K. Barry
sean.barry at juno.com
Sun Mar 11 00:16:29 CST 2007
Rah, Rah, David Yarrow!
I agree 1000% with your ideas about getting the sustainable farming eco-aware farming community involved. I'm trying to do that very same thing here in Minnesota and make charcoal here for them to use. I will share anything I learn or do with them to this group. Collaboration is our best hope to ever producing anything technologically and economically viable.
Regards,
Sean K. Barry
Principal Engineer/Owner
Troposphere Energy, LLC
11170 142nd St. N.
Stillwater, MN 55082
(651) 351-0711 (Home/Fax)
(651) 285-0904 (Cell)
sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: dyarrow at nycap.rr.com<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com>
To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] publicizing online help wanted service
nice try, doug, but you may need a heavy hammer to get your points
across.
we have a lot of re-education to do, because terra preta's charcoal
strategy flies in the face of conventional wisdom about fertilizers
and soil fertility. after all, the organic / ecological farm
movement's emphasis on building organic carbon in soils by composting
still hasn't made more than a small dent in the prejudices and pre-
judgments of existing agricultural institutions and their experts.
for that matter, in nearly two decades, even no-till has had a stiff
and steep upill struggle to gain limited credibility and practice.
my own perception that terra preta research is driven by
archaeologsts, anthropoligists, ecologists, and soil scientists -- but
very few agricultural scientists have paid attention. terra preta
contradicts their preconceived notions. and while i haven't read all
the papers of lehmann, steiner, antal, ogawa and all, i doubt a stack
of documents will change many made-up minds.
my own view is you rarely teach an old dog new tricks -- better to get
a new dog. while we wait for conventional ag institutions to change
their deep-dug mindset, let's recruit eco-aware farmers to collaborate
in on-farm biochar field trials. i hope this doesn't sound
excessively negative and cynical. (hawaii doesn't count, as it's an
island unto itself with unique motivations to find a way out of the
big oil synthetic oil box)
my recommendation to terra preta advocates and promoters is to contact
fred walters at acres USA and ask to give a 60-minute workshop at the
next acres USA conference in dec. 2007. better yet, teach an all-day
or half-day pre-conference training session, preceded by a feature
article in the october or november issue of acres USA magazine. and
ditto for all the other regional eco/organic farming conferences:
NOFA, PASA, CCOF, etc. and walk into those conferences with big bags
of biochar for farmers to take home and test on small plots and pots.
we need this sort of strategy to recruit an initial crop of farmer-
collaborators in on-farm terra preta field tests -- assuming we can
come up with a sufficient volume of proper quality bio-char to be used
in such field trials. i certainly will do my best to recruit farmer-
collaborators in the northeast, and NY in particular. right now, i am
confident i can convince the buffalo manager at onondaga nation to
conduct field trials with bio-char on their carbon and trace element
deficient pasture -- and this year they intend to start a 50-acre
vegetable farm. but i hate to consider the cost of shipping a few
truckloads of charcoal to central NY from athens, GA.
i certainly agree with the assessment that corn-derived ethanol is not
wise -- not until we develop less soil-destructive, energy-consumptive
ways to grow corn. the benefit of corn-based ethanol is only a slight
reduction in dependence on imported oil -- we reduce our oil-
dependence for auto fuel, but still rely on energy-intensive
fertilizers to grow the corn.
and so far, i haven't yet read anything about processes and costs to
refine crude biofuel extracted by pyrolysis into various grades and
qualities of usable fuels. such refining technology already exists
for crude oil, coal oil and other raw fuels, so it won't take a techno-
revolution to develop similar biofuel refining. but it all reduces
down to the numbers, and we need data to show biofuel refining is
economical -- at least before crude oil reaches $100/barrel.
David Yarrow
"If yer not forest, yer against us."
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
518-330-2587
dyarrow at nycap.rr.com<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com>
www.championtrees.org<http://www.championtrees.org/>
www.OnondagaLakePeaceFestival.org<http://www.onondagalakepeacefestival.org/>
www.citizenre.com/dyarrow/<http://www.citizenre.com/dyarrow/>
www.SeaAgri.com<http://www.seaagri.com/>
"Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times,
if one only remembers to turn on the light."
-Albus Dumbledore
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Clayton
To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: [Terrapreta] "unanticipated consequences"
Yesterday afternoon NPR's "Talk of the Nation--Science Friday" had a
program "Is Biofuel a Viable Alternative to Gasoline?", in which they
pretty effectively trashed grain based ethanol and promoted cellulosic
for about half an hour. You can listen here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7806281<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7806281>
The guests were:
Dan Kammen, co-director, Berkeley Institute of the Environment;
professor, Energy And Resources Group, University of California,
Berkeley
Mitch Mandich, CEO of Range Fuels
Jim McMillan , manager, Biorefining Process R&D Group at the National
Renewable Energy Laboratory
So after the show I wrote a letter to Dr. Kammen and Dr. McMillan. Dr.
McMillan is on the road and couldn't be reached, but I had the
following brief exchange with Dr. Kammen which I share with you here
(my letter is below):
--------------------------------------------------------------
On Mar 9, 2007, at 8:24 PM, Dan Kammen wrote:
i am very skeptical about soil altering as a real way to sequester
carbon.
------------------------------------------------------------
Could you please elaborate? Is this after studying Lehmann's,
Steiner's, Ogawas', Laird's and others work, or is this just a hunch?
Can you please refer me to some of the papers refuting Lehmann et. al.?
Thank you.
Doug Clayton
--------------------------------------------------------
yes, these sorts of efforts have historically resulted in
initially unanticipated consequences and other ecological impacts.
--------------------------------------------------------
"these sorts of efforts"? Please site an example of what you are
referring to. Are you familiar with this bio-char research or not? I
am unaware of any historical effort to sequester carbon in the soil
beyond the traditional strategies for increasing biomass through
improved agricultural practices and restoration of forests.
-------------------------------------------------------
That is where it ended, just moments after it began. Perhaps he was
offended by my style. But I am left wondering what he was talking
about and I put it out there to the rest of the group:
Who are the skeptics, what are they saying and where are they saying
it? Are there academics publishing papers that contradict the "hopeful
news" we've all been pumping each other up with?
My letter:
Dear Dr. Kammen and Dr. McMillan,
I just heard you two on NPR's "Science Friday" and spent a
frustrating half hour redialing in an attempt to get on. Enjoyed
hearing your
discussion anyway. Too bad it was so short.
A few weeks ago I woke up to all the excitement one can find on the
web regarding Terra Preta soils and the potential to recreate them,
sequester carbon, make bio-fuels, engage in "carbon trading", etc.,
etc. Since there are scientist like Dr. Lehmann at Cornell, Dr. Laird
at the USDA lab in Iowa, Dr. Brown at the Iowa State and Dr. Antal at
the U. of Hawaii who are doing some of the primary research, I'm
inclined to hope that there may be something to it.
I want to contribute to this effort in some way.
I have spoken and corresponded with Dr. Lehmann and Dr. Laird (and a
few others) and they have been very helpful and given some good
guidance. I have been reaching out to soil scientists in New England
in the hope of discovering or stimulating some research in my region.
And I have been seeking entrepreneurial partners with whom to pursue
economic opportunities. My primary motivation is a "save the planet"
one but I have aroused the interest of an investment banker friend in
New York with whom I have a good working relationship.
I am meeting with with Danny Day and others at Eprida in Athens
Georgia next week. The Eprida vision of distributed pyrolizers,
producing
both a nitrogen rich charcoal based fertilizer and biofuels is the most
intriguing, holistic, multifaceted concept I've read about in this
arena.
I would appreciate the opportunity to have a brief phone conversation
with you
regarding Eprida and/or alternative technologies I should
be directing venture capital towards.
I'll gladly call you if you give me a number and time.
Douglas Clayton
50 Bullard Road
Jaffrey, NH 03452
H. 603-532-7321
W. 603-532-1120
Fax. 603-532-4581
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