[Terrapreta] Soil test and CEC

lou gold lou.gold at gmail.com
Wed Nov 7 17:40:38 EST 2007


GREAT.

That's what you and Sean and I and
a whole lot of others are doing, here
and in many other places.

There's a wonderful poem by Wendell
Berry where he speaks of
"feeling the earth's brew rising in root and branch."

I feel that way about Terra Preta. I can't argue the
details very well but I sure can share what I feel.
I guess that's what I do.

all best to all,

lou



On Nov 7, 2007 8:30 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:

> Dear Lou
>
> Thanks for your helpful comments
>
> The possibility of Global Warming has been suggested quite a while ago,
> and the First World Summit was called in Sweden in 1972. See:
> http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/kyoto.htm.
> That was 35 years ago, and relatively little has happened since then to
> control or reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions.
>
> The general approach to controlling GHG emissions is one of "reduce by
> reducing use", rather than "reduce by self financing change". Reducing
> GHG's with a policy driven by reducing use of fossil fuels is the hard
> way to go, in that it unites the fossil fuel suppliers who see a loss of
> market, and have an incentive to obstruct and delay a reduction in GHG.
> On the other hand, if the benefits of GHG were sold to the Users, in
> terms of making money by reducing GHG production, then they would be
> much more likely to "do the right thing." A reasonable analogy would be
> "Supplier Push" rather than "Market Pull". More ideas get sold when the
> Market wants them.
>
> We have a history of 35 years of inadequate progress in reducing or
> controling GHG's. When something doesn't work for this long, perhaps it
> is time for a change in approach?
>
> I would suggest that the "No Regrets Policy" would be such a change in
> approach. It stresses the benefits from a course of action, and would be
> generally self-financing, or require the least outside support.
>
> It strike me that Terra Preta is one such idea whose time is about to
> come... almost any sensible Farmer would adopt Terra Preta if he felt he
> could make money as a result of so doing. Similarly, no sensible Farmer
> will adopt it unless he has fact to justify his decision. Some more
> adventuresome Farmers will be the first to experiment with TP, but most
> of them want to be second... as soon as they see positive test results,
> they will rush in.
>
> So, why don't we on the TP list do our thing and get back to showing the
> Farmers of the World how TP works, how to make it, and where to use it?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> lou gold wrote:
> > Kevin and Shawn,
> >
> > I should not do this but I will. I will because the argument between
> > you is the official and massively promulgated argument. It requires
> > only the taking a familiar and comfortable position. Read the
> > editorials of the NYT and WSJ (or whatever) and decide where you stand
> > and buttress your stance with all that has firmed your opinions across
> > the years.
> >
> > But the Master Golfer said, "keep your eye on the hole and not on the
> > ball." It's not whether global warming is or is not unique in history
> > (including pre-human history). It's that 6 billion humans trying to
> > cope with it truly is absolutely unique. That is the problem that we
> > are facing. No, I am not ticking the population bomb. I am saying that
> > we have reached the critical mass for emerging into a new way. That
> > requires an openess that must not get filled with our familiar biases,
> > whatever they are. The debaters are in the deck chairs on the Titanic.
> >
> > And the doers? Well, we are the doers. Let's just keep doing
> > everything we can.
> >
> > OK, that's the lecture that I give to myself. No arrogance or offense
> > intended.
> >
> > hugs,
> >
> > lou
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 7, 2007 6:47 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> > <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear Sean
> >
> >     You indicate below:
> >     "There are 1500+ scientists, global climatologists, having done
> >     thousands of research projects and written thousands of peer
> reviewed
> >     articles where they are in COMPLETE CONSENSUS that global warming is
> >     caused primarily by humans."
> >
> >     "Consensus Science" is an oxymoron. If it is science, it does not
> need
> >     "consensus." If it is Science, then it is proven or disproven by
> >     facts.
> >     The fact that there is a need for "consensus" suggests that  at
> >     the very
> >     best, it is a "work in progress."
> >
> >     The mere fact that there is a need for "consensus Science" is
> >     proof that
> >     the statements and conclusions are not scientific fact. If it can't
> be
> >     proven or disproven, then it is not Science. It is still at the
> >     level of
> >     "belief" or "conjecture."
> >
> >     I would therefore suggest it could be that  our present situation of
> >     Global Warming was NOT caused by Man, industrialization, and
> >     fossil fuel
> >     use, and that it could indeed be a natural phenomenon, which Man is
> >     powerless to stop or reverse.
> >
> >     The World has had global warming in the past, long before
> >     Industrialization, and it certainly was not caused by Man.
> >
> >     The issue of "Global Warming" is a complex matter. It may very
> >     well be
> >     that the Scientists have not found the right hypothesis, or that
> >     if they
> >     have, perhaps they simply do not have enough data to prove or
> disprove
> >     the hypothesis in an absolute and Scientific manner. Given the
> >     importance of the issue, that does not stop Man from taking some
> >     sort of
> >     action. I personally favour a "No regrets" policy, where action is
> >     taken
> >     to support a belief, BUT where these actions have merit on their
> own,
> >     and provide a known real benefit.
> >
> >     For example, insulating ones home reduces the need for heating
> >     fuel, and
> >     therefore reduces the impact of heating fuel on Global Warming. Most
> >     people could accept that. However, when someone suggests raising the
> >     price of gasoline to reduce use, many people scream bloody murder.
> >     Cheney was wrong... the American Way of Life IS negotiable. If a
> "new
> >     view" on gasoline pricing and use is not developed soon in an
> orderly
> >     manner,  reality will force the ugly truth  upon us, in a way that
> is
> >     much less than orderly and convenient.
> >
> >     Terra Preta seems to be such a "No Regrets" option. It presently
> >     seems
> >     to be "close" to being economically advantageous for agricultural
> >     reasons alone. How close it is to economic soundness based on
> >     agricultural benefits is certainly open to discussion, in that the
> >     Science and technology is not yet here to permit proving or
> >     disproving
> >     its economic worth. To me, however, it appears that there are
> already
> >     certain "niche circumstances" where TP would be very attractive for
> >     Agricultural benefit alone, and that there are other circumstances
> >     where
> >     TP would be a waste of good money.
> >
> >     I would suggest that the best interests of the Terra Preta
> >     Community are
> >     served if we work toward understanding how it works, how to make
> >     it, and
> >     where to use it.
> >
> >     Best wishes,
> >
> >     Kevin
> >
> >     Sean K. Barry wrote:
> >     > Hi Jim,
> >     >
> >     > Wow!?  Human are causing air pollution?  Is that what you are
> >     saying?
> >     >
> >     > Green House Gases are the bulk of that air pollution you speak
> >     of and
> >     > they have a greater impact on temperatures in the troposphere
> >     than any
> >     > other mechanism, including current and historical solar activity
> >     and
> >     > cosmic rays (which are completely unaffected by solar activity).
> >      The
> >     > resulting climatic changes, including global warming, increased
> >     > incidence and severity of droughts, 3 category 5 hurricanes in one
> >     > annual seasons, are a direct result of human activities which
> >     > introduce ~6 billion tons of new carbon into the atmosphere each
> >     > year.   This is not an issue which politicians seem willing to
> >     address
> >     > (unfortunately).
> >     >
> >     > There are 1500+ scientists, global climatologists, having done
> >     > thousands of research projects and written thousands of peer
> >     reviewed
> >     > articles where they are in COMPLETE CONSENSUS that global
> >     warming is
> >     > caused primarily by humans.  There has never ANY CRITICISM of
> >     even one
> >     > peer reviewed article, written by any scientists in the past ten
> >     > years, which stated that global warming was caused by humans.
> >     This
> >     > is no longer conjecture.  It has not been conjecture in the
> >     scientific
> >     > community for a very long time.
> >     >
> >     > We humans must BEAR the cost of fixing this or we will suffer the
> >     > consequences.  We are the only living beings that can do
> >     ANYTHING to
> >     > change the world.  Even if we do something to mitigate the
> >     problems in
> >     > our environment, we will have to adapt.  The ball is already
> >     rolling.
> >     > It's a big ball with lots of inertia.  The hysteresis lag in the
> >     > response of the environment to activities that we do is on the
> order
> >     > of a 100 years.  We are now seeing the effects of what we did 100
> >     > years ago.  In 100 years more we will still be seeing the
> >     effects of
> >     > what we are doing now, even if we try to make amends for it.  We
> >     will
> >     > absolutely be required to adapt before then!
> >     >
> >     > Regards,
> >     >
> >     > SKB
> >     >
> >     >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     >     *From:* Jim Joyner <mailto:jimstoytn at yahoo.com
> >     <mailto:jimstoytn at yahoo.com>>
> >     >     *To:* terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> >     <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> >     >     <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> >     <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
> >     >     *Sent:* Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:40 AM
> >     >     *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Soil test and CEC
> >     >
> >     >     From: Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com
> >     <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com
> >     <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>>
> >     >
> >     >     I would like to mention again  . . .
> >     >
> >     >     Sean,
> >     >
> >     >     While I think carbon sequestration is probably a good bet,
> >     >     anthropogenic causes are still something of a conjecture (I
> >     >     realize I may be somewhat politically incorrect here). While
> >     >     global climate change may be a given, there are more better
> and
> >     >     reasons to believe climate change is due to solar activity and
> >     >     their effect on cosmic rays.
> >     >
> >     >     I bring this up, not to start an argument about climate
> >     change and
> >     >     causes but to point out that carbon sequestration will have an
> >     >     attendant cost and someone will have to bare it. The reason
> >     why I
> >     >     think carbon sequestration is still a good bet is because
> >     much the
> >     >     expense for it can be borne by the cost of cleaning up the
> >     Earth's
> >     >     air of pollution -- we know who is causing that and roughly
> who
> >     >     should pay for it.
> >     >
> >     >     My other concern is that if humans are not causing climate
> >     change,
> >     >     we have an even bigger problem: adapting. We will need
> >     disparately
> >     >     to find better ways to feed people in a changing
> >     environment. We
> >     >     need to grow crops with better moisture and nutrient
> retention.
> >     >     So, I would put soil improvement on at least an equal
> >     footing with
> >     >     carbon sequestration if not a higher priority.
> >     >
> >     >     Jim
> >     >
> >     >     __________________________________________________
> >     >     Do You Yahoo!?
> >     >     Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >     >     http://mail.yahoo.com
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     >     Terrapreta mailing list
> >     >     Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> >     <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> >     >
> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> >     >     http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> >     >     http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >     >
> >     >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     >
> >     > _______________________________________________
> >     > Terrapreta mailing list
> >     > Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org <mailto:
> Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> >     >
> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> >     > http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> >     > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Terrapreta mailing list
> >     Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> >     http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> >     http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://lougold.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/
>
>
>


-- 
http://lougold.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/terrapreta_bioenergylists.org/attachments/20071107/7649dc58/attachment.html 


More information about the Terrapreta mailing list