[Terrapreta] charcoal degradation - uncertainties about its half life

[lou gold]

I did some follow-up checking. Cummins has some strong credentials.
This could be one of those proposals that bridge conservation and
industrial approaches, so my skepticism is softened a bit. In general
state forestry commissions have a strong timber industry bias, so
this should be watched carefully.

Here are some links:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/15/AR2007111501359.html
http://smallwoodnews.com/Forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1542
http://www.wildlifemiss.org/about/cummins.html

On Nov 16, 2007 8:09 PM, lou gold <lou.gold at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I'm a bit skeptical of this message -- not because of the numbers or the
> extent of the damage but because by the time of the hurricane there were
> almost no natural forests left in Mississippi and Louisiana. The once-great
> forests of this region had been almost entirely converted to commericial
> tree plantations of young trees that are cut at a young age and replanted as
> in a crop cycle. Young trees, especially the new hybrids bred for fast
> growth, have very little resilence toward wind. Thus, I would expect a
> massive blow down -- but as a man-made distaster and not a natural one.
>
> Excuse me if my intuitive speculation is incorrect. Perhaps the writer,
> who is a member of the Forestry Commission (usually a group weighted heavily
> toward industry representation) may be able to offer an informed guess as to
> the percent of the severely damaged trees that were more than 80 years old?
> Or the percent of killed trees that were non-commercial species?
>
> I would, of course, love to see something really useful done with the
> blow-down -- like making char to be placed back in the soils which in
> Louisiana and Mississippi have been severely degraded by years of
> industrial-style management. I afraid, however, that what might be coming is
> a plea for subsidized cellulostic pyrolisis to make ethanol, etc.
>
> I will be most happy to be corrected on these speculations.
>
> Sincerely offered,
>
> lou
>
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 6:55 PM, henry buehler < henry.buchler at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > New satellite imaging has revealed that hurricanes Katrina and Rita
> > produced the largest single forestry disaster on record in America — an
> > essentially unreported ecological catastrophe that killed or severely
> > damaged about 320 million trees in Mississippi and Louisiana. "This is the
> > worst environmental disaster in the United States since the Exxon Valdez
> > accident ... and the greatest forest destruction in modern times," said
> > James Cummins, executive director of the conservation group Wildlife
> > Mississippi and a board member of the Mississippi Forestry Commission. "It
> > needs a really broad and aggressive response, and so far that just hasn't
> > happened." "I was amazed at the quantitative impact of the storm," Chambers
> > said. Of 320 million trees harmed, about two-thirds soon died. "I certainly
> > didn't expect that big an impact." Chambers was even more surprised when his
> > team calculated how much carbon will be released as the storm-damaged
> > vegetation decomposes. The total came to about 1.1 billion tons, equal
> > to the amount that all the trees in the United States take out of the
> > atmosphere in a year.
> > we need to build into our refining capacity the ability to consume trees
> > again like we did before we drilled for oil.
> >
> >
> > On 11/16/07, Brian Hans <bhans at earthmimic.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you Andrew and Mariska for bring up this very important topic,
> > > likely the most important topic that TP should be discussing.
> > >
> > > Im not going to cite any ref. material but after a few weeks of
> > > discussing TP with various soil scientists, it seems that charcoal can
> > > infact break down over time, organically and chemically. It is also easily
> > > lost thru erosion and other climate events. I heard serious questioning
> > > about the perported lifespan of charcoal in the soil. I also heard the term
> > > 'priming effect' but he didnt have a cite... likely from the one Andrew
> > > ref'ed. Tho charcoal remains longer than raw bio-mass and has many benefits
> > > because of that, there is very little longer term data on this topic and
> > > definately more needs to be done.
> > >
> > > To confuse the matter, an activated carbon specialist mentioned to me
> > > that hardness would likely determine retention time in the soil, which goes
> > > to the feedstock AND quality of process.
> > >
> > > I am convinced that charcoaling is generally better than composting or
> > > just letting it rot. But just as compost has a 1/2 life in the soil, so does
> > > charcoal.
> > >
> > > Brian Hans
> > >
> > >
> > > *Andrew Zimmerman <azimmer at ufl.edu>* wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Mariska - It is generally assumed that charcoal (black carbon) is not
> > > very biodegradable because of its chemical composition (highly aromatic,
> > > with relatively little nitrogen, etc) and simply because it remains in the
> > > soil for long periods of time.  However, recent work (papers attached) has
> > > shown that microbes can indeed respire and abiotic reactions can breakdown
> > > this material to at least some extent, especially when more labile organic
> > > matter is also added (so called 'priming' effect).  In fact, my laboratory
> > > has found the same and is currently working on defining the properties of
> > > biochar and its remineralization rates better.  -AZ
> > >
> > >
> > > At 01:21 PM 11/15/2007, mariska evelein wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello List
> > >
> > > A problem I stumbled across today is the half life of charcoal in the
> > > environment.
> > >
> > > No one seems to have rigorous scientific proof that charcoal is inert,
> > > but we are all assuming it is.
> > >
> > > According to the attached peer reviewed article (new directions in
> > > black carbon organic geochemistry, masiello, 2004) there are some serious
> > > gaps in how much black carbon is produced yearly and how much of it we find
> > > in the environment, suggesting there is either a problem with our scientific
> > > experiments, or there are other processes that cause a black carbon loss
> > > that we haven't found out about yet. Even a thousand year life span can't
> > > explain the carbon quantities.
> > >
> > > Does the fact that we find charcoal in our ancient soils mean that
> > > this represents all the charcoal that was produced at that time? How do we
> > > know that we are not only finding a fraction of what was once there?
> > >
> > > I would really like to believe that most the charcoal we put in our
> > > soils will stay there indefinately, but am struggling to do so until I find
> > > some peer reviewed evidence that proofs this.
> > >
> > > Can anybody provide me with this?
> > >
> > > Mariska
> > >
> > >
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> > >   *___________________________________________* Andrew R. Zimmerman,
> > > PhD
> > >
> > > Assistant Professor      Department of Geological Sciences 241
> > > Williamson Hall P.O. Box 112120 University of Florida Gainesville, FL
> > > 32611 Office: (352) 392-0070 Fax: (352) 392-9294 azimmer at ufl.edu
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> > >
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> --
> http://lougold.blogspot.com/
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