[Terrapreta] Terra Preta - not just about charcoal in soil
Sean K. Barry
sean.barry at juno.com
Mon Oct 1 11:12:16 EDT 2007
Hi Kevin, Robert,
Good questions, Kevin! Right on point as I see it. I would maybe add one more request, Robert. 4. Could we see if adding just charcoal made from the stover on a plot continues to show soil with "... a profound effect on plant development with no other soil fertility program". You must be careful that only charcoal made from the wastes on the plot is used. Adding more rice hull charcoal, for instance, would add some fertilizing nutrients that were taken from the soil that the rice grew in. Adding new rice hull charcoal would not show the benefits of charcoal alone in the soil.
As I see it, the contention in recent discussions has been that charcoal made from the plant crop wastes alone (corn stover) on an agricultural field, when applied to that field (alone, up to 10 or 50 repeated times) is all that is required to increase or maintain the soil fertility. My reading is that this is NOT TRUE. I do not see that the nutrient content can be maintained, as each harvest of the corn cobs will deplete the nutrients and the charred stover will add nothing new beyond what was there when the crop sprouted.
Adding anything else would not reveal the value of charcoal in the soil.
Regards,
SKB
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Chisholm<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
To: Robert Flanagan<mailto:saffechina at gmail.com>
Cc: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; David Yarrow<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Terra Preta - not just about charcoal in soil
Dear Robert
Thanks for your perspective.
I must have missed your posting where you showed "...a profound effect
on plant development with no other soil fertility program than rice
hull charcoal..."
Could you please tell me more OR refer me to the Posting? What I would
be really interested in is a comparison:
1: Control
2: Control plus char only
3: Control + char + recommended nutrients to go with the char.
(The presumption is that the Control Plot represents "good present
practise" for whatever crop was tested.)
Thanks very much.
Kevin
Robert Flanagan wrote:
> Well Sean,
>
> I've just got through this email and once again I have to step in and
> ask "Where are you getting this from?" Is all this based on what you
> just read in Johannas's book?
>
> First off, I've posted many times about adding more than just charcoal
> but that must have gone right over your head! Christoph has also
> repeated that the closed he ever came to reproducing terra preta was a
> mix of chicken litter+fish bone and charcoal *(ON THAT SOIL).*
> Second, We still have much to learn about charcoal made from different
> feedstock and to wright off charcoal from agri waste is a very very big
> mistake. Please take note of the pictures I sent of my field and pot
> trials clearly showing a profound effect on plant development with no
> other soil fertility program than rice hull charcoal.
>
> Regarding nutrient, again I clearly stated that seaweed is perfect as it
> contains way more nutrients and trace elements then your *C*arbon,
> *H*ydrogen, *O*xygen, Potassium- *K*, *I*odine, *N*itrogen, *S*ulfur,
> *Ca*lcium, /I/ron-*Fe*, and Magnesium-*Mg . *The best thing about
> seaweed is that we can take it from all the cold seas at the end of the
> growing season and stop all that CO2 going back into the atmosphere
> right away, instead we can ferment it and get it back in to the food
> chain as feed for both animals and plants first. The sooner we learn to
> restore more elements the sooner we'll be back on track growing
> nutritious foods and the closer we'll be to real sustainable agriculture.
>
> So once again I feel at this point we've far more to gain by fresh data
> from trails then just pulling bits and pieces from other peoples data
> and trying to put your own spin on how it all came together.
>
> *MORE TRIALS, LESS TALK!!!
> *
>
> On 10/1/07, *Sean K. Barry* <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
> <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>> wrote:
>
> Hi Ryan,
>
> Welcome to our discussions. I think an answer to your question
> would come from an observation of what "fertilizer inputs" actually
> are. The basic principles of managing soil to make it grow more or
> better plants is to put things into the soil which the plants need
> to grow and to make the soil into a better environment for the
> production of plant roots.
>
> Plants primarily need three things to carry out basic
> photosynthesis; carbon dioxide-CO2, water-H2O, and sunlight.
> However, these are not the only nutrients that plants need to grow
> and be healthy. The actual chemistry of photosynthesis and others
> functions of plants (moving fluids and nutrients through the plants
> roots and shoots, reproduction, resistance to disease and insects,
> etc.) rely on molecules that partially consist of more atomic
> elements other than Carbon-C, Hydrogen-H, or Oxygen-O.
>
> There is an acronym used to remember the main plant nutrients. It
> looks like an advertisement for a job at a diner;
>
> *"C HOPKINS CaFe Mgr"*
>
> *C*arbon, *H*ydrogen, *O*xygen, Potassium-*K*, *I*odine, *N*itrogen,
> *S*ulfur, *Ca*lcium, /I /ron-*Fe*, and Magnesium-*Mg*.
>
> These are not all of them, but they are the nutrients that plants
> require the most of, in general. Packaged and bulk fertilizers are
> sold with NPK numbers, like 28-2-4 (a high nitrogen lawn
> fertilizer). The three numbers represent the weight percentages of
> the three nutrients in the fertilizer, Nitrogen-N, Phosphorus-P, and
> Potassium-K. Lime for Calcium, Gypsum for Calcium and Sulfur, other
> Iron and Magnesium containing compounds are also types of
> fertilizing amendments to soil.
>
> Manures and packaged or bulk fertilizer are always EXTERNAL
> additions or inputs to soil. Soils which are deficient in any of
> these nutrients cannot usually create any of the deficit nutrients
> in and of themselves. Some hypothesis that soil microorganisms can
> break down inorganic rock crystals ( e.g. particulate granite) and
> remove or make soluble some amounts of the CHOPKINS CaFe Mgr
> nutrients, making them available for uptake by plants. But,
> depending on the soil content of specific inorganic crystalline
> minerals, the populations of specific soil microorganisms, and the
> mechanisms of their decomposition of the minerals into which
> nutrients, the amounts would probably be very minor and could take a
> very long time to accrue.
>
> Plants acquire most nutrients by uptake of water soluble molecules
> containing them through the roots of the plants. Even though, for
> instance, air contains 78% Nitrogen gas molecules-N2, plants still
> acquire most of the Nitrogen they need from dissolved Nitrogen
> bearing molecules in the soil. Plants basically only take CO2 from
> the air. The other nutrients and water-H2O are primarily brought
> into the plant systems through the roots. There are some instances,
> like the giant redwoods of California where those plants (trees) can
> take in water through parts of the tree above the ground. These are
> rare types of plants in rare environments.
>
> Sometimes plants contain bacteria in root nodules or work with
> bacteria in the soil to "fix" atmospheric Nitrogen. These
> Actinorhyza and Actinobacteria are able to convert inert N2 gas from
> the atmosphere into Nitrogen containing compounds in the plants or
> in the soil (ammonium-NH4+, nitrates, or nitrogen dioxide).
> Alfalfa, for instance, and many other legumes are known
> "Nitrogen-fixers".
>
> The basic idea of adding fertility to the soil is to ADD a chemical
> inputs (C HOPKINS CaFe Mgr containing compounds) to the soil for
> something which was previously not there.
>
> Making the soil environment more suitable for growing roots means
> doing things like giving the soil a greater capacity to hold water,
> increasing the ability of air, water, and roots to move through the
> soil, and/or balancing the pH, so the soil is neither too alkaline,
> nor too acidic to allow the roots or soil microorganisms to grow or
> metabolize as they should. Soil microbes must be able to decompose
> soil organic matter into "plant available" molecules and roots
> systems need to be large enough and within moist enough soils, that
> they are take up enough nutrients for the plants to grow.
>
> When soils are used to grow agricultural crops, where the crops are
> harvested, then the harvested parts of the plants contain nutrients
> that are LOSSES or OUTPUTS from the soil. When land is put under
> heavy cropping and no fertilization practices are done
> simultaneously, then this is how soils be come degraded and nutrient
> deficient. Each harvest removes more of the original stock of
> nutrients.
>
> So, to maintain soil fertility, then nutrient INPUTS to the soil
> need to balance with OUTPUTS from the soil. To increase soil
> fertility, the INPUTS need to exceed OUTPUTS. The concept is really
> very simple and observable. In the Amazon rainforest, where soils
> are highly leached, and run-off is a constant daily occurrence, the
> soils are poor. In latrine areas where wastes, like night soil
> (humanure) and other animal manure are concentrated, then these
> areas are receiving EXTERNAL INPUTS of fertilizing nutrients. The
> seeds of plants (maybe also in these areas) will respond with
> vigorous growth.
>
> The "jungle" in the Amazon rainforest is a paradox. It is has
> observably verdant stand of jungle growth on top of near sterile
> soils. What the ancient Amazon people did was to concentrate the
> nutrients that were there in the forest stand INTO the soil. They
> gathered them up from a wide area and invested them into smaller
> areas. Charcoal helped by making the nutrients not wash or leach
> away. Charcoal helped by promoting the growth and metabolism of
> soil microorganisms. Charcoal helped, because when it was gathered
> from biomass in a larger area, it brought with it the nutrients from
> that surrounding biomass.
>
> The true miracle of original Terra Preta soils came when the
> ancients observed that they could only continue to TAKE sustenance
> from the land, if they returned more INPUTS of plant nutrients to
> the land, than what they took out. This is what we must do to make
> "Terra Preta Nova". We have to invest more nutrients into the soils
> than we take out. We have to re-mineralize the soils, with minerals
> that contain easily accessible amounts of the necessary and deficit
> plant nutrients. We need to find sources for fertility from diverse
> unproductive areas of land and bring it to the land we cultivate.
> We have to give the agricultural soils better abilities to hold onto
> the nutrients we put in, better ability to hold water, buffer
> acidity or alkalinity, and support the growth of soil microorganisms
> (charcoal can be a great benefit here). We need to change our ways
> to give back to the land that we use more than we take out. We need
> to help the soils maintain the inputs we put in better than they
> currently do.
>
> We need to turn our focus from feeding ourselves only to maintaining
> the source of our sustenance, by giving back to the places where we
> take our sustenance from.
>
> This is NOT new practice. We do not need to create or change the
> way things work in our environment. We only need to observe what is
> and participate in changing what are observable natural phenomenon
> to serve our ends. We need to see, again, that there is value in
> re-distributing our organic wastes back into the growing medium. We
> need to see where the plant nutrients are and put them where we need
> them.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> SKB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Ryan Hottle <mailto:ry.hottle at gmail.com<mailto:ry.hottle at gmail.com>>
> *To:* terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Terra Preta - not just about
> charcoal in soil
>
>
> Hi Sean et al,
>
> I am new to the list, so please excuse me when I ask a single
> questions that might have already been addressed but which I
> feel compelled to ask from the main point of your recent post:
> that terra preta was aided not only by the addition of charcol
> (which has an incidental amount of nutriets, but nonetheless
> aids the soil in the ability to retain nutrients) but also by
> the addition of other nutrients in the form of biomass, and, I
> suppose, both animal manure and humanure.
>
> What inputs and methods could be used in a modern terra preta
> system to boost nutrient levels in addition to adding biochar?
> How would one go about devising a sustainable agricultural
> system that included adding charcoal to the soil?
>
> I ask
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan Hottle
>
>
>
>
> On 9/30/07, *Sean K. Barry* < sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
> <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>> wrote:
>
> Hello 'terrapreta' List,
>
> I am writing today to this group about what I am learning
> from reading some more parts of the book *"Amazonian Dark
> Earths: Origin, Properties, Management"*, edited and
> compiled by another of our colleagues on this list, Johannes
> Lehmann. I believe there are some very crucial
> understandings that we all need to have, in order to achieve
> what we want to with "Terra Preta" Nova".
>
> The agricultural miracle that is being sought by forming
> Terra Preta soils anew, is NOT just about putting charcoal
> in soil. Charcoal is a tool, one which allows the
> concentration and storage of plant nutrients in soil, where
> they would otherwise be lost to seasonal harvests, run-off,
> and/or leaching. It is thought (and being researched for
> more confirmation) that charcoal in soil can improve the
> environment for soil microorganisms, because its porous
> nature retains water and provides a haven for the growth of
> soil microbes. Increasing the populations of soil microbes
> will not occur just because there is charcoal in the soil,
> however.
>
> Soil microbes need energy to grow. Then, they can do the
> chemical breakdown of other matter in soil, making more of
> the plant nutrients in those materials available to plants
> growing roots into the soil and shoots above the soil.
> Usually microbes get this energy from undigested
> carbohydrates in and on the soil (soil organic matter).
> They also get this energy from carbohydrate exudates that
> the plants themselves provide to supply the soil
> microbes with energy they need. These symbiotic
> relationships between plants and soil microorganisms are as
> old as life on land.
>
> The carbon that is in charcoal is NOT a FERTILIZER. Most
> charcoals do contain some plant nutrients, though, and these
> will increase the stock of plant nutrients in soil
> once fresh charcoal has been put into soil. This part of
> charcoal IS A FERTILIZER. The stock of nutrients in the
> soil will not increase further, however, as a result of its
> presence in the soil. If the soil is used for agricultural
> purposes, then plant nutrients will deplete as harvests
> occur, even if the soil contains charcoal. Making charcoal
> from those plant wastes that are left after harvest also
> WILL NOT improve the stock of nutrients.
>
> Making charcoal amendments alone, especially just from the
> plant wastes that remain in an agricultural field after
> harvesting WILL NOT improve the fertility of that field. It
> may improve the ability of the soil in that field to HOLD ON
> TO what fertility is does have better, but the nutrients do
> not just appear. The nutrients have to be input for the
> fertility of the soil to be improved.
>
> In the formation by humans of the Amazonian Dark Earths
> (ADE) (a.k.a Terra Preta soils), what occurred was that the
> people were able to make inputs of plant nutrients exceed
> losses. They were greatly aided in doing this by
> incorporating charcoal into the soil. But, it was NOT
> CHARCOAL ALONE and it was not charcoal from only the plant
> wastes in their fields that made this increased fertility in
> ADE soils.
>
> They made native soil into more fertile patches of soil (ADE
> sites) by incorporating all of these things; their wastes
> from food production, at harvest and post harvest, human and
> animal digestion products (night soil and manures), pottery
> sherds, and charcoal made from plants covering a wider area
> than where they made Terra Preta soils. The valuable and
> necessary aspect of ALL of these inputs into the ADE sites
> was that they all served to increase the stock of nutrients
> on the site over time, limit the losses, or retain the
> stocks of nutrients in the soil.
>
> It is a completely different way of practicing husbandry of
> the land, that modern agriculture is not focused upon.
> Making Terra Preta is about giving more to the land than we
> take from the land. It is not just about making it black
> with charcoal.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> SKB
>
>
>
>
>
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> --
> Ryan Darrell Hottle
>
> Ohio Peak Oil Action (OPOA)
> Co-Founder, Director
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>
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> --
> Robert Flanagan
> Chairman & President
> Hangzhou Sustainable Agricultural Food & Fuel Enterprise Co., Ltd.
>
> Skype "saffechina"
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>
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