[Terrapreta] carbon sequestration but where is TP? === Is TP contrary LCA documentation existing of not?

[Edward Someus]

Brian, 

I was just asking a publication copy you stated about existing  LifeCycle
analysis demonstrating that most char systems doesn't seem to offer any real
advantage. I JUST KINDLY ASK YOU TO SEND THE COPY OF THE DOCUMENTATION
CONTAINING FACTS. 

In the PROTECTOR project, supported by the European Union we developed deep
scientific evidence and results, which will be public 2008.

Therefore, I again challenge those developers to provide data on statement
that there is an existing LifeCycle analysis demonstrating that most char
systems in soil doesn't seem to offer any real advantage. 

Is TP contrary LCA documentation existing of not? 

Just please tell me the publication title, authors and year, and we find it
in 5 minutes via our partner the Spanish Academy of Science. 



Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
Terra Humana Clean Technology Engineering Ltd. 
(ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certified organization for scientific research,
technical development and industrial performance engineering design of
agro-biotechnological and pyrolysis methods, apparatus and applications) 

ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus
WEB:   www.terrenum.net 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Brian Hans
Date: 2007.10.12. 5:13:54
To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] carbon sequestration but where is TP?
 
If one is going to make the argument that TP cures GHG...then the LCA needs
to be done that shows that complete data documenting that sequestering and
offering advantages. This is the purpose of the LCA, to document the whole
of the project, cradle to grave. It is not up to me to disprove your
speculation and assertions on your systems you are trying to develop, it is
up to you to show the documentation on the complete system and this includes
LCA. 
 
Several of you asked where is TP in carbon sequestration and Im telling you
why its not there yet. You can continue to argue with me or you can complete
a LCA on the systems you are proposing to provide the data needed to
document your assertions, the choice is yours. Dont shoot the messenger. 
 
Brian Hans
 
 
 

Edward Someus <edward at terrenum.net> wrote:
YES Michael, I was also wondering the same
 
Where are/is the LifeCycle analysis which is stating scientific/technical
evidence that most char systems doesn't seem to offer any real advantage
overall? 
 
I also ask for this / these documentation as for far I could not find such
one? 
 
THIS IS WHY I INDICATED THAT I WOULD LIKE TO CHALLANGE THE AUTHOR OF THIS
LIFE CYCLE ANALYIS  which is stating that most char systems doesn't seem to
offer any real advantage overall. 
 
 
 

Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
Terra Humana Clean Technology Engineering Ltd. 
(ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certified organization for scientific research,
technical development and industrial performance engineering design of
agro-biotechnological and pyrolysis methods, apparatus and applications) 

ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus
WEB:   www.terrenum.net 
-------Original Message-------
 
From: Michael Bailes
Date: 2007.10.12. 4:11:01
To: bhans at earthmimic.com;  Terrapreta
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] carbon sequestration but where is TP?
 



On 11/10/2007, Brian Hans <bhans at earthmimic.com> wrote: 
If I could be so bold as to offer a few reasons;
 
As I and others have pointed out, the LifeCycle analysis of most char
systems doesnt seem to offer any real advantage overall. 
 How come?


 Additionally, TP is a relatively new science and as the banter on this site
shows, is still pretty thin in real data. Example is show me a study where
we can see the charcoal we make now will remain charcoal in the soil for 100
+ years... ?   

New to who?
the Amazonian Indians 2-3,000 years
The Japanese 100+ years.
Many ethnic and aboriginal communities-eons.

What is new is pyrolysis which mens most toxic gasses are not  released
forming char; and you can produce energy- electricty or bio-feuls as well 



Lastly and likely most importantly, there are no major corp's pushing char
because they dont see economic models in a distributive productionlike char
in the fields would likely be. Its much easier to think how someone is going
to make $ on a $200m project injecting CO2 into a well from a coal plant
than a whole bunch of farmers making charcoal out of stumps and corn cobs...
and unfortunately $ talks. 

Not true, many big Agribusinesses in Australia are very interested because
of the potential savings in fertliser and water 
Dow Corp is no doubt not interested. But after the revolution they will all
be taken out and shot anyway.:) 



On a bright note...I do see this worm starting to turn, the word is getting
out. The more data we have (ground truth), the louder the voice becomes.
Also, the economy of CO2 is still in its infancy, its still to fully mature.


Yes I agree, but still you would think the pennies would be starting to drop
by now. 

There is a huge amount of R& D happening. But this distracts many Pyrolysis
firms from their primary objective selling pyrolysis units to those with big
organic waste disposal problems. 



The group needs to remember that even tho the technology is 1000's of years
old, we are all still early adopters. 

Does that mean as a race we are criminally insane, dumb,  or just slow? 



Brian Hans
 
  MA

Michael the Archangel

"You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . . 
Most people don't know that"
FROM
http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf 




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