[Terrapreta] carbon sequestration but where is TP?

Sean K. Barry sean.barry at juno.com
Fri Oct 12 01:52:48 EDT 2007

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Hi Brian,

Is it possible that a complete Life Cycle Analysis of Terra Preta (aka biochar into soil) is not required to convince the IPCC that TP is as good of a GHG mitigation strategy as any of the other currently approved methods? I do think your point about attempting to make a complete LCA has genuine merit. But, do you really think that it is an absolute MUST for the IPCC to make TP formation an approved CDM project?

Maybe there is possible merit in the other benefits that TP has to offer beyond its possible use as a GHG mitigation strategy? Do you think the IPCC, which is formed under a charter of the United Nations, might be directed by the UN to see value in TP that exceeds merely what the IPCC endeavors to accomplish? GHG mitigation is not the only World problem the UN tries to address and in the view of some, maybe not even the most serious problem. TP can address some issues towards solving some of these other of the World's problems too; like starvation, arable land degradation, and unemployment. These surely could be thrown in to the Life Cycle Analysis of a "biochar into soil" venture, too?

Your challenges seem to downplay any possible value to TP without a complete LCA, and/or beyond GHG mitigation. Do you think that suggests that an LCA is the only way to go? Do you think that your way to proceed is what we all need to see, hear, and adopt before we would proceed? Your edict on the matter leaving us only our choice to ignore?

Regards,

SKB

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Hans<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com>
To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] carbon sequestration but where is TP?

If one is going to make the argument that TP cures GHG...then the LCA needs to be done that shows that complete data documenting that sequestering and offering advantages. This is the purpose of the LCA, to document the whole of the project, cradle to grave. It is not up to me to disprove your speculation and assertions on your systems you are trying to develop, it is up to you to show the documentation on the complete system and this includes LCA.

Several of you asked where is TP in carbon sequestration and Im telling you why its not there yet. You can continue to argue with me or you can complete a LCA on the systems you are proposing to provide the data needed to document your assertions, the choice is yours. Dont shoot the messenger.

Brian Hans

Edward Someus <edward at terrenum.net> wrote:
YES Michael, I was also wondering the same

Where are/is the LifeCycle analysis which is stating scientific/technical evidence that most char systems doesn't seem to offer any real advantage overall?

I also ask for this / these documentation as for far I could not find such one?

THIS IS WHY I INDICATED THAT I WOULD LIKE TO CHALLANGE THE AUTHOR OF THIS LIFE CYCLE ANALYIS which is stating that most char systems doesn't seem to offer any real advantage overall.

Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
Terra Humana Clean Technology Engineering Ltd.
(ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certified organization for scientific research, technical development and industrial performance engineering design of agro-biotechnological and pyrolysis methods, apparatus and applications)

ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
TEL handy: +(36-20) 201 7557
TEL / FAX: +(36-1) 424 0224
TEL SKYPE phone via computer: Edward Someus
WEB: www.terrenum.net <http://www.terrenum.net/>
-------Original Message-------

From: Michael Bailes<mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>
Date: 2007.10.12. 4:11:01
To: bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com>; Terrapreta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] carbon sequestration but where is TP?

On 11/10/2007, Brian Hans <bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com>> wrote:
If I could be so bold as to offer a few reasons;

As I and others have pointed out, the LifeCycle analysis of most char systems doesnt seem to offer any real advantage overall.
How come?

Additionally, TP is a relatively new science and as the banter on this site shows, is still pretty thin in real data. Example is show me a study where we can see the charcoal we make now will remain charcoal in the soil for 100 + years... ?

New to who?
the Amazonian Indians 2-3,000 years
The Japanese 100+ years.
Many ethnic and aboriginal communities-eons.

What is new is pyrolysis which mens most toxic gasses are not released forming char; and you can produce energy- electricty or bio-feuls as well

Lastly and likely most importantly, there are no major corp's pushing char because they dont see economic models in a distributive productionlike char in the fields would likely be. Its much easier to think how someone is going to make $ on a $200m project injecting CO2 into a well from a coal plant than a whole bunch of farmers making charcoal out of stumps and corn cobs... and unfortunately $ talks.

Not true, many big Agribusinesses in Australia are very interested because of the potential savings in fertliser and water
Dow Corp is no doubt not interested. But after the revolution they will all be taken out and shot anyway.:)

On a bright note...I do see this worm starting to turn, the word is getting out. The more data we have (ground truth), the louder the voice becomes. Also, the economy of CO2 is still in its infancy, its still to fully mature.

Yes I agree, but still you would think the pennies would be starting to drop by now.

There is a huge amount of R& D happening. But this distracts many Pyrolysis firms from their primary objective selling pyrolysis units to those with big organic waste disposal problems.

The group needs to remember that even tho the technology is 1000's of years old, we are all still early adopters.

Does that mean as a race we are criminally insane, dumb, or just slow?

Brian Hans

Michael the Archangel

"You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . .
Most people don't know that"
FROM
http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf<http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf>

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