[Terrapreta] Fwd: Google Alert - "terra preta "

[Jon C. Frank]

Brain Wrote>Just to ramble on even more...IMO, the future of terra preta is
not in forests or wood but in ag production waste streams like stover and
manure and other sources of carbon from 'green' material. Woody biomass is
becoming too valuable to char but waste streams like stover turns into
virtually 100% CO2 without some sort of fixing.

Brian, I have thought of this as well.  Certainly sustainably managed
forests will supply a continuous stream of wood products.  Yet to be
sustainable, forests should not be over harvested.  A few ideas come to
mind.  Many Amish farmers in PA have a high stocking rate of cattle for the
amount of land produced.  The land has been given too much manure and as a
result P and K levels are very high.  They need to export P and K off the
farm.  A community purchase of a unit to make biochar from biomass could
provide a very nice income stream, help get their soil back in line, and
greatly reduce the amount of CO2 given off by typical composting operations.
Another area.  What about the mountains of manure around the feedlots of
Kansas and Nebraska.  Here in Minnesota there are numerous sawmills with a
large supply of sawdust free for the taking and there are hulls from wild
rice processing.  These examples are just a peep through the keyhole when
considering the possibilities.

Jon C. Frank

  -----Original Message-----
  From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
[mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of Brian Hans
  Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 5:02 AM
  To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Fwd: Google Alert - "terra preta "


  Sean et al,

  First let me address this statement "Does anyone know the difference in
tons of carbon per hectare between "corn rows" and a forest of 350' tall
tropical rainforest trees?". If you look at the forest in any given year,
ofc the forest holds more carbon but that ignores the y/y yields of carbon.
Certainly, a hectare of corn y/y is more productive at yielding a 'carbon
crop' than forest, even the fastest of growing trees and certainly much much
more productive than '350ft tall rainforest' (yes even faster than bamboo).

  I have no doubt that tree carbon was the main source of terra preta.
Population density in the forest at the time of 'terra preta man' makes it
quite easy to see where the vast majority of the carbon came from. My point
wasnt that they charred stover and called it good, my point was what
happened to their precious crop? Standing stover makes it hard to plant into
the following year, especially with handtools. Did they rotate? Did they
chop the stover and feed it to humans (nope) or feed to domesticated animals
(highly unlikely)? So what happened to the stover?

  Just to ramble on even more...IMO, the future of terra preta is not in
forests or wood but in ag production waste streams like stover and manure
and other sources of carbon from 'green' material. Woody biomass is becoming
too valuable to char but waste streams like stover turns into virtually 100%
CO2 without some sort of fixing.

  Brian Hans




  "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com> wrote:
    Hi Brian,

    Does anyone know the difference in tons of carbon per hectare between
"corn rows" and a forest of 350' tall tropical rainforest trees?
    Which one is bigger?  Which does anyone think is more likely to have
been the most prevalent plant form in the Amazon Tropical Rainforest, then
(2500 years ago) or now; "rainforest trees", or "corn rows"?  Did the
continent of South America move into the area from outside the tropics, in
around 2500 years ago?

    I think these questions and probably some others would lead one to
question "highly" the possibility that corn was used to make the bulk of the
charcoal, rather than trees.

    This is just my opinion?

    SKB


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Brian Hans
      To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
      Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:03 PM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Fwd: Google Alert - "terra preta "



http://www.olis.oecd.org/olis/2003doc.nsf/43bb6130e5e86e5fc12569fa005d004c/f
70b80eb7cd25728c1256d57003e5f0c/$FILE/JT00147699.PDF

      Some light botanical reading on corn.

      A few 'corn off topic' notes;

      Notice where they talk about perennial relation to corn. I cannot
believe someone hasnt been able to cross that perennial line with corn,
seeing how much work is done on corn itself. My guess is that type of
research is scratched for future economic reasons by the big guys. Imagine
the world if corn was a perennial...

      I studied botanical taxonomy @ UWMadison and Iltis is convinced of the
'teosinte' theory and he is a mountain of a man @ UWMadison, so who am I to
argue.

      Notice how important corn really is to the human diet. It makes alot
of sense that we would try to make ethanol with it...just as anyone plays
with their food they are swimming in.

      Putting yourself into the shoes of pre-modern man, every part of the
crop would have been utilized. Im curious as to how they handled the stover.
If 'terra preta man' infact had corn stover...it seems plausable that stover
was apart of the making of char. Remember that stover is a good 'carbon
crop' and certainly it was used in ancient times as such.

      Brian Hans


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