[Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question

[Brian Hans]

Group,
   
  The gov. doesnt regulate charcoal at all as far as I see. Im curious how they would classify the char when its an industrial waste tho... 
   
  Specifically to the N issue. Simply, more corn = more fixed N. Additionally, more soil biomass = more fixed N. Just by adding char, we cannot assume that N magically appears. The reason we need to add N to a field of char'ed soil is that growth is going to increase and that will need more N to facilitate that increased biomass production.  
   
  Im not sure why char will specifically increase N fixing bac's, to assume that is the case is wild speculation that is likely unfounded. In a lit. search...char and fertilizer additions always go hand in hand for the reasons I stated above. Infact the lit. is ripe with reports that only the combo of ferts AND char yield an increase in yields. 
   
  A point specifically to Adriana, you mentioned that your char "if you keep the temperature below 400C you will keep a significant amount of it [Nitrogen]"   Im curious as to what state that N is in? Im having a hard time understanding how much of the N doesnt oxydize at that temp. In this case...even tho the char may be holding some of the N...its in an NOx state and thus useless to the plant. 
   
  Brian Hans
   
  
"Jon C. Frank" <jon.frank at aglabs.com> wrote:
      Hi Gerrit,
   
  I don't think the government was involved at all.  The only thing he spread was charcoal that had syrup filtered through it.  It was spread with a regular manure spreader.
   
  I agree with your thoughts on nitrogen.  Additionally the carbon could provide room and board to N-fixing bacteria and could possibly reduce the need even further.  But on corn I would be very careful reducing the N too far or it could lead to poor yield.
   
  Jon
    -----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Van Koeverden [mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:00 PM
To: Jon C. Frank
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question


Jon,   

  I'm curious how your client was able to spread this industrial waste on his soil.  Did he have to get some kind of governmental clearance first?  Or has this material been classified as safe for farmland?  I want to know just in case I can find similar waste here.  I would love to spread it on my land.
  

  Gerrit
  

  
    On 11-Sep-07, at 3:19 PM, Jon C. Frank wrote:

    One additional point.  We have a customer who has access to large quantities of charcoal powder that was used by industry as a filtration product for syrup.  This product has pyrogenic characteristics so is difficult to market.
   
  To prove a point at how effective it is in soil restoration he bought an extremely sandy field on the river bottom of the Mississippi River.  He applied 15-20 tons of this product per acre and plowed it into the soil.  He saw tremendous visual difference in the plants and in the root growth as compared to his neighbor with whom he shared part of the pivot for irrigation.  When looking at roots that encountered chunks of this charcoal powder the roots would explode with massive growth inside the chunk of charcoal powder.
   
  The conclusion of this farmer was that adding large quantities of charcoal powder increased the need for nitrogen on corn.  I suspect this might also be the case with biochar, at least in the first year after application.  I wonder if biochar made from manure would significantly slow the release of NPK as compared to using the manure fresh.  I believe so but have no data to back up my beliefs.  Kind of hard to get bio charred manure around our area. :)
   
  Jon C. Frank
  www.aglabs.com
   
    -----Original Message-----
From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of Adriana Downie
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 5:55 PM
To: 'James Oliver'; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question


    Hi James,
  
  It very much depends on the temperature and processing conditions. Generally the P and K will stay with the char, you will loose some nitrogen but if you keep the temperature below 400C you will keep a significant amount of it. The availability of the NPK in the char also changes significantly with process conditions. 
  
  Regards,
  
  Adriana Downie
  BEST Energies Australia
  
  -----Original Message-----
From: James Oliver [mailto:jwogdn at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, 10 September 2007 11:16 PM
To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question
  
      I have seen discussion of turning manure into biochar.  Is the N-P-K retained in the biochar if manure is used as feed stock?  
  
  JW


  
    
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