[Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Brian,

I would say that when charcoal is combined with sugar and amended to soil, that is the charcoal (not the sugar) that gives the microbes that extra chance to survive longer or leave their remains better in the soil.  You might contact AD Karve (he's on this list) about exactly what he is saying.  But, as I read him, the addition of sugar to power the growth of soil microbes can, alone, enhance the ability of the soil microorganisms to provide more plant nutrients.  The microbes can mine the soil for nutrients in ways that the plant roots cannot do.  The metabolism of some soil microbes can "free up" inorganic molecules in the soil and make them available to plants.  Sugar does nothing directly for plants (they are not cannibals!!!).

Write to Dr. A.D. Karve yourself => adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in<mailto:adkarve at pn2.vsnl.net.in>.  Ask him about what sugar can do for the sustained improvement of soil, the improved growth of soil microorganisms, and the consequent improved growth of planted crops.  Ask him if NPK is an absolute requirement.  I've been down this path with the guy before.  I did not at first believe it, either.  But, he has an audience in India, an audience of farmers who have made their fields more productive by using his methods.  He has a successful working model for crop fertilization that does NOT use the standard of so much of the N, some much of the P, and the K.

C HOPKINS Café Mgr has more than NPK in it.

If you keep arguing your standard agribusiness knowledge, then someone in here will kick you for not having an "open mind".  I've been there.


Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brian Hans<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com> 
  To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 6:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question


  Sean, Ive posted within your post. 

  "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>> wrote: 
    Hi Brian,

    Sugar alone can bloom the soil micro-flora.  There is a lab test, used by soil science researchers that makes use of this.  It increases soil "respiration" rates, which is an indication of increased living microorganism activity. 

    No doubt...sugar is the energy source for soil, pure and simple. Its the currency inwhich digesters go after...sluffing off the 'parts they dont need' and thus recycling inorganics. But then you state this...


     But, sugar with charcoal?  Now that could be a different, perhaps more long-lived, effect than charcoal alone.  

    Again...sugar is the energy currency. Its like someone depositing $1000 into your bank acct. It doesnt change your job or your habits or your dwelling...its just a small shot in the arm. The bugs cant go to home depo and buy lumber or screws, ie. added inputs. The leap you are making is that the bugs somehow utilize that $1000 (sugar) to produce something more long lived utilizing char...

    Maybe the charcoal can buffer the soil pH, increasing Cation Exchange Capacity?  Maybe the carbon in the charcoal can catalyze the decomposition of organic matter into plant available nutrients?  Maybe the porous nature of the charcoal holds more water and provides a "safe haven" for soil microorganisms to grow into and stay, set up shop as it were, etc?

    I dont see the connection with the sugar to the above statements. Unless its your intention to add sugar to the soil every year to keep the sort of energy level within your soil system AND add NPK to keep up with the yields leaving the fields. This is what digestion of biomass really is, utilizing the sugar and sluffing off the inorganics to get to more sugar. By adding sugar...you are only increasing the kinetics of that reaction...not the ingredients, I think AD Karve demonstrates this. Sugar nor char magically adds more ingredients. Char's may hold more ingredients at the ready form plants and sugar may offer them in a quicker time...but the sugar aspect is only for a short time. AND if NPK is not introduced...the soil will be 'used up' faster with the addition of sugar because sugar increased the kinetics of crop growth but not the inorganics #. Its sorta like caffeine to the human body..there isnt anything for the body but energy and if you dont eat more food...your energy level will start to eat away at your storage. 
    The only ingredient change I see is maybe an increased in N2 fixing bac's in the soil but that is only because free energy was introduced to the soil and N2 fixer's will benefit from that sort of introduction. And ofcourse this is where...

    These are all, I believe, very "fertile groud" (pun intended) for Terra Preta research.  It does look promising, so far.  So, we just need to get more people excited about doing this kind of research.

    ...comes in. 

    Brian Hans

    ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Brian Hans<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com> 
      To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:00 PM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question


      Sugar is the energy currency of soil flora. This makes sense because autotrophs utilize the sun and ofc...its dark down there so its not like they can fix their own energy from the sun. I would also suspect what PurNrg is implying...that residual sugars increase soil flora but only as a temp. shot in the arm. This is only a short term shot and not a long term affect. 

      Brian Hans 



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