[Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Edward,

I'm sure you are absolutely right in what you say.  My intent with this sentence, "Sugar alone can bloom the soil micro-flora." was to point out that microorganisms in soil thrive on complex carbohydrates for energy and nutrients, not on sun, water, and C HOPKINS CaFé Mgr plant nutrients, like most plants need to thrive.

Soil microorganisms are not like plants.  The nutrients for one are not the same as for the other.  There is perhaps some overlap, but the relative amounts and uses of the nutrients are different.  The organisms differ in two very basic ways;  soil microbes do not, in general, perform photosynthesis and plants do not, in general, decompose plant nutrients from the soil or the soil organic matter in the soil, all by themselves.  These two different sets of organisms actually do need to rely on one another for the mutual continued existence.  Plants need nutrients that microbes can get from the soil.  Microbes need carbohydrates, that plants build with photosynthesis.  They have a symbiotic relationship which assures their mutual preservation.

However litigious and exacting as one my be, I do not believe I've made any misstatements here ?

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Edward Someus<mailto:edward at terrenum.net> 
  To: bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com> ; Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question


        NOTICE on  lab test, used by soil science researchers - sugar alone can bloom the soil micro-flora:  

        This is a very big difference to make micro scale lab tests in sterile in vitro conditions with sugar or few nutrients (which results certainly not true for in vivo conditions), or to make scale up in vivo tests under real conditions. I develop soil microbiological adaptations into different alternative carbon carriers, to develop solid state fermentation and formulation technology for the horticultural industry.  In this context sugar and molasse is often used as nutrient, but not only sugar.  We have tests sites in The Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Israel and Hungary under different soil and climatic conditions, and all tests confirming that a complex nutrient strategy and scale up conditions are absolutely important to reach economical output for the cultivations.  



        Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
        Terra Humana Clean Technology Engineering Ltd. 
        (ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certified organization for scientific research, technical development and industrial performance engineering design of agro-biotechnological and pyrolysis methods, apparatus and applications) 

        ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
        TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
        TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
        TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus
        WEB:   www.terrenum.net <http://www.terrenum.net/>
        -------Original Message-------

        From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
        Date: 2007.09.12. 0:41:16
        To: bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com>;  Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
        Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question

        Hi Brian,

        Sugar alone can bloom the soil micro-flora.  There is a lab test, used by soil science researchers that makes use of this.  It increases soil "respiration" rates, which is an indication of increased living microorganism activity.  Dr. A.D. Karve (in this group), from India, has claimed that this is very important.  Even to the point where "sugar" is the sole amendment, no fertilizers required.  But, sugar with charcoal?  Now that could be a different, perhaps more long-lived, effect than charcoal alone.  Maybe the charcoal can buffer the soil pH, increasing Cation Exchange Capacity?  Maybe the carbon in the charcoal can catalyze the decomposition of organic matter into plant available nutrients?  Maybe the porous nature of the charcoal holds more water and provides a "safe haven" for soil microorganisms to grow into and stay, set up shop as it were, etc?

        These are all, I believe, very "fertile groud" (pun intended) for Terra Preta research.  It does look promising, so far.  So, we just need to get more people excited about doing this kind of research.

        Regards,

        SKB

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: Brian Hans<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com> 
        To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
        Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 5:00 PM
        Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] manure biochar N-P-K question


        Sugar is the energy currency of soil flora. This makes sense because autotrophs utilize the sun and ofc...its dark down there so its not like they can fix their own energy from the sun. I would also suspect what PurNrg is implying...that residual sugars increase soil flora but only as a temp. shot in the arm. This is only a short term shot and not a long term affect. 

        Brian Hans 

        PurNrg at aol.com wrote:

        In a message dated 9/11/07 5:07:24 PM, jon.frank at aglabs.com writes:



        The only thing he spread was charcoal that had syrup filtered through it.



        This would lead me to wonder whether there was not a lot of residual sugar in the charcoal from said syrup, which would definitely be a different thing than JUST charcoal. As we've read earlier in this discussion, the sugar promotes a massive, temporary bloom all all sorts of soil critters. This bloom and it's associated activities could well be responsible for using up easily available soil nutrients, making them less available to plants in an immediate sense. Then, when the sugar has been consumed, there is the die off of many of the extra critters and their decomposition releases all those nutrients again in a form readily available to the plants.

        Peter :-)>


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