[Terrapreta] Pure Organics Vs. Biological Agriculture

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Christelle,

I would say, only upon a somewhat cursory review, that Johannes Lehmann's book "Dark Earth" or what was written by Wim Somberg has even addressed this question in the reading I have done (the resilience, or longevity of charcoal carbon in soil).  I know that Johannes and his research grad students are studying this issue very intently now.  Perhaps they will be issuing some white papers on their findings about this sometime soon?

Charcoal carbon is easily carbon dated.  You need to be able to correctly identify charcoal carbon in soil when you see it.  You need to know that carbon dating techniques work with some accuracy.  And, you need to believe that the world is more than 6000 years old.  But, when you do, then you can understand that the charcoal carbon found in Terra Preta soils was put there 2500+ years ago in some cases.

Let us say, that a 6 foot deep sample of Terra Preta soil found in the Amazon (these do exist) could be "stratified" into "carbon-dated" layers.  If we presume that roughly the same amount of charcoal could be made and incorporated at any period of time, in those layers, then I would think, that if the same relative amount of charcoal is there 2500 years ago as there is from say 500 years ago, that then charcoal carbon in the soil has a very slow decay rate.  This is possibly a "weak" logical argument, but hey, I gave it a try.

Now, I think Edward Someus... (from Hungary?, he is on the list), too, might have once said that this issue was studied.  I believe he made some claim that it was determined by research he or his associates had done, that charcoal carbon concentration in soil, does in fact decay, but at a very much slower rate than other forms of soil organic carbon.  Maybe he could refer you to any writings on this subject.


Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ch braun<mailto:brauncch at gmail.com> 
  To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
  Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Pure Organics Vs. Biological Agriculture


  Hello,

  Which papers/authors deal more particularly with the problem of determining with precision the time duration of carbon sequestration in TP soils ?

  Thanks,
  Christelle


  On 9/19/07, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>> wrote: 
    Hi David, Kevin,

    David makes a good point here, Kevin.  The data is not non-existent.  It does exist.  Some of it is very expensive.  Johannes Lehmann's book "Dark Earth" costs $229.  Some of it is a very tough read, too.  I have read some from all of the authors you mentioned, David.  I bought "Dark Earth" from Springer Books and I have read only some parts of it.  I am a believer in all the benefits (1), 2), and 3)) of Terra Preta.

    But, I will tell you that the economics of this are right now very difficult.  I CANNOT make charcoal from biomass and sell it for only $200/ton.  I would lose money doing that.  I CANNOT make lots of tons of charcoal, either.  The only way that I can do it cleanly is by "flaring" the producer gas.  I am working on ways to use the waste heat and the fuel gases, but even when I do, it will still be hard to make a profit, even at $200/ton.  And, $200/ton is way more than farmers are willing to pay to put 5-20 tons per acre onto their land.  They will not do it unless they see a darn near immediate equivalent monetary benefit in the productivity of their field.
    They will not pay for the opportunity to "save the world".

    Some would claim that "I am tilting at a windmill" on this.  But, I am an optimist.  I am trying very hard to find ways to bring value (in all the forms 1), 2), and 3)) to what I am trying to do.  I will continue to work of making charcoal from biomass a more valuable commodity (or service) and I will continue to find ways to make charcoal from biomass in the most efficient way possible.

    Regards,

    SKB


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: David Yarrow<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> 
      To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 8:59 PM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Pure Organics Vs. Biological Agriculture


      try reading johannes lehmann, christoph steiner, bruno glaser, makato ogawa, 
      wim sombroek, william woods...  lots of data already exists documenting the 
      history and productivity of terra preta.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: "Kevin Chisholm" < kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>

      > Would you have any test results you could refer us to, to support these 
      > statements?


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