[Terrapreta] Pure Organics Vs. Biological Agriculture

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Jon,

You are absolutely right in everything you say.  The atomic weight of CO2 is 12+16+16, where as N2 is only 14+14, and O2 is 16+16.  CO2 is absolutely a denser molecule and a denser gas than air (78% molecular nitrogen (N2) and 19% molecular oxygen (O2)).

You agree with me, that increased plant growth IS NOT reducing atmospheric CO2 levels.  That is all that I have been trying to say.
I think we all see clearly now that increased plant growth IS NOT going to stabilize atmospheric CO2 concentrations as long as humans keep destroying soil carbon and pumping fossil carbon into the atmosphere.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jon C. Frank<mailto:jon.frank at aglabs.com> 
  To: Terrapreta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Pure Organics Vs. Biological Agriculture


  Sean,

  You are speaking many things way outside your area of expertise and it shows.

  All healthy soils will respire CO2.  To increase the the health of soil means an increase in the amount of microbial activity.  Microbial activity releases CO2 gas. Period.  The key is to recapture it with growing plants before the gas is mixed into the air.  What you fail to see is that at the same time soils are increasing the release of CO2 it is also increasing the amount of carbon storage in soil.

  For your information CO2 is heavier than air and yes it many times accumulates on the surface during the nighttime before being sucked up by plants when the sun hits them.  All it takes to confirm this is a CO2 meter with a graphing feature.

  Check out this quote from your favorite reference:

  At standard temperature and pressure<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_conditions_for_temperature_and_pressure>, the density of carbon dioxide is around 1.98 kg/m³, about 1.5 times that of air<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere>. 

  The reason why atmospheric CO2 levels are increasing even though CO2 increases plant growth is that the industrial model of farming basically burns up carbon stores in the soil and sends them into the air.  The industrial model also creates a soil situation that does not have proper remineralization.

  The key for plants to utilize large amounts of CO2 is soil remineralization and excellent levels of available calcium.  Industrialized acres generally do not have these attributes and so do not adequately utilize the increased levels of CO2.  This is the gist of the concept of soil remineralization as explained at:
  http://www.remineralize.org/<http://www.remineralize.org/>.

  SKB>Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere by making soils release more DOES NOT increase plant growth!

  Your wrong Sean.  All you need to do to confirm this is check out the greenhouse industry.  They use CO2 generators in order to greatly increase yield.  It works.  Low CO2 levels limit plant yield.
  Here is what wiki has to say:
  Plants require carbon dioxide to conduct photosynthesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis>, and greenhouses may enrich their atmospheres with additional CO2 to boost plant growth. 


  Jon
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Sean K. Barry [mailto:sean.barry at juno.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:45 PM
    To: Terrapreta; Jon C. Frank; Sean K. Barry
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Pure Organics Vs. Biological Agriculture


    Hi Jon,

    You say,

    Our goal in restoring soil is to INCREASE CO2 release, and then re-capture it with the plants growing on the soil.  This is explained more at:
    http://www.highbrixgardens.com/restore/healthy_soil.html<http://www.highbrixgardens.com/restore/healthy_soil.html>

    This is not my goal.  This is a very simplistic view and I think it is dead wrong!

    Increasing CO2 release alone does not increase plant growth.   The rate of sugar production from photosynthesis is the rate of a reaction which occurs in growing plants.  It is affected by carbon dioxide concentration, light intensity, the availability of water and certain nutrients (e.g. phosphorus and nitrogen are important atomic components of the adenosine diphosphate - ADP and adenosine triphosphate - ATP molecules)), AND temperature.  An increase in the rate of reaction requires an increase in all of them.

    Photosynthesis is (very basically)

        6(CO2) + 6(H2O) + light photons => C6H12O6 + 6(O2)

    Plants convert light energy into chemical energy.  Increasing one of the reactants (CO2), alone, will not increase the rate of photosynthetic output.  The reaction does not occur in the dark, or at temperatures without liquid water.

    Photosynthesis is actually a very complex reaction, involving other molecules; like nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate - NADP (C21H29N7O17P3), reduced NADP - NADPH, and adenosine triphosphate - ATP (C10H16N5O13P3).

    The rate of the reaction will increase ONLY if all of the required input reactants and the amounts of supporting molecular catalysts are increased proportionately.  Since when does increasing the CO2 concentration in the air around growing plants increase the amounts of; water, nitrogen, phosphorus, ADP, ATP, or SUNLIGHT, which would ALL need to be increased to raise the rate of photosynthetic output?!

    Does lighter than air CO2, which could be released from soil at night stick around down near the leaves of the plants until sunrise?!

    Increasing CO2 in the atmosphere by making soils release more DOES NOT increase plant growth!  It would only increase the GHG effect of higher atmospheric CO2 concentrations and exacerbate the consequent Global Climate Change problems.

    I challenge you to find ANYONE who has ever published a peer reviewed article in ANY scientific journal, which reports ANY indication that increased atmospheric CO2 levels alone will promote the bigger or faster growth of any plants.  I do not believe this is possible.
    You will not find any such articles.  I believe that ANYONE with a learned experience in high school chemistry alone could argue effectively against any such proposal, Jon.


    Regards,

    SKB

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