[Terrapreta] forests vs. grasslands

[David Yarrow]

brian, 

you are over-reacting, over-reaching, and reading logic into my statements that isn't there -- a technique that makes real communication difficult, if not impossible.  i can't recall making any such statements about prairie and savannas.  put a leash on your inflamed thinking and just stick to the facts as expressed.

forests can hold tremendous biomass, depending on the tree type and soil type.  there are some trees that have wide-spreading roots that don't penetrate more than a few inches below the ground surface.  many oaks, hemlock and spruce are in this category.  but there are other trees such as ash and maple that send deep roots into the subsoil and mine minerals and groundwater up to the surface.  this same variety in root behavior holds true for annual and perennial herbs and grasses, and which one grow varies with certtain soil and environmental conditions.  ideally, a plant community contains members of each class of rooting vegetation, but not always.

certainly much of the amazon has soil and tree types that are shallow, spreading roots, so not much depth is created for the organic layer to store carbon, other minerals and water.  strip away and burn the trees and understory and the poor subsoil is exposed, with little capacity to hold nutrients.  thus, we have rapidly spreading slash-and-burn farming devastating the rainforest, leaving behind a near-desert.

however, in deserts, trees get established that do have deep roots that reach down to access water and minerals buried under the sands.  such deep rooted trees are also common in mountainous zones whenever soil gets started in ravines and crevices.

so, it is hard to generalize given, the adaptive diversity of nature.  nonethess, the mere presence of abundant thick coal seams worldwide is generous evidence of the carbon-sequestering potential of trees and forests.

David Yarrow
"If yer not forest, yer against us."
Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
dyarrow at nycap.rr.com
www.championtrees.org
www.OnondagaLakePeaceFestival.org
www.citizenre.com/dyarrow/
www.farmandfood.org
www.SeaAgri.com
 
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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Brian Hans 
  To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org 
  Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 6:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Fw: CO2 rising


  ? 
  So...prairies dont hold their biomass underground and forest generally dont hold their biomass above ground? You got something to back that hypothesis up? I offered my data...where is yours?

  And are you saying that prairies and savannas are NOT an succession ecosystem? You think prairies are just waiting for forests to cover them? If this is your position, you would be highly mistaken. Prairies and savanna ecosystems are absolutely endgame succession ecosystems that are fire dominated. Its why prairies are in Florida and Alabama as well as Wisconsin and Ohio, because they are a distinct succession ecosystem. They also occure in the Pampas, African savanna and the Russian Steppe. Sure some of the areas like the steppe are dry but much of the pampas and eastern prairies of USA arnt. 

  And all of those grassland ecosystems hold most of the biomass below ground... and forest dont. I dont get what is to argue about this point. 

  Brian Hans



  David Yarrow <dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> wrote:

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: David Yarrow 
    To: bhans at earthmimic.com 
    Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 2:41 PM
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] CO2 rising


    not true.  a very bad generalization.  all i will grant you is that grasses arose recently in botanical evolution because they are highly successful competitors to repopulate exposed, unforested soils -- especially drylands with lower levels of rainfall and soil mineral nutrient supplies.  the grasses and their herbaceous companions quickly cover these denuded niches in the biosphere to shade and cool the land, filter rain and snowfall, and begin to rebuild subsoil biomasses -- living, dead, and decaying.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Brian Hans 
      To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org 
      Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 8:40 AM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] CO2 rising


      forests tend to hold their biomass within the above ground parts and prairies/grasslands/ag. tend to hold biomass closer to or below the ground level. 
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