[Terrapreta] CO2 rising

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Gerrit,

I've been thinking this way of late , too.  carbon fixing in living organisms; tree trunks, grass roots, or what ever, is by its very nature going to die and decompose in short order, short by comparison to being fossilized into a hydrocarbon fuel for many millions of years, and out of the "Living Biosphere" for the whole time.

I think that in order to lower the concentration of carbon in the atmosphere, we have to get the carbon out of the "Biosphere", not just stuck somewhere in it for maybe a century (in a 100 yearold tree trunk).  The atmosphere is part of the "Living Biosphere".  All the gases rotate in and out of the atmosphere from and to the organics on the ground and in the soil.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
  To: terrapreta preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Cc: bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com> 
  Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] CO2 rising


  What if Hans has hit upon something...that there is no meaningfully active carbon sink in present geological history, just very extremely short duration carbon-fixing mainly in grass roots and tree trunks?  And microbial activity empties these very shallow sinks as quickly as they can be formed.  The true carbon sinks - coal formations and oil basins - are derived not from trees or grasses but rather seas of algae grown in a high carbon dioxide atmosphere and then buried in sediment by erosion and catastrophic earth upheavels, eons ago... 


   If Hans' idea has validity, our only real choice would be make those sinks ourselves, atom by atom...to return the atmosphere earth to pre-industrial condition.  For every ton of fossil carbon fuel burned, we should we fixing another ton back into a real sink...and is that the earth as charcoal??


  Gerrit






  On 23-Sep-07, at 7:11 PM, lou gold wrote:


    That's one way that you might interpret our responses -- by reducing them to a duality such as"not specific enough" vs "too specific" and that will only lead you to the blind men and the elephant. Excuse me but this is also a way to characterize the reductionist dilemma -- reduce it to an either/or alternative and YES INDEED the result you get will depend on the way you look at it (or feel it if blind). 

    BUT...  what if David and I are not offering either/or alternatives? What if we both are showing you complexities which include both specific and non-specific elements in a process that includes both static and dynamic qualities? This might lead out of the dilemma of the blind men and the elephant. 

    Einstein famously observed that a problem cannot be solved at the same level that it was created. The answer to the conundrums generated by thinking that light is either a particle or a wave cannot be solved. It took quantum physics to show that light is both a particle and a wave. Interestingly, Einstein resisted the quantum "solution." Seems like we all can get stuck. 

    regards,

    lou


    On 9/23/07, Brian Hans <bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com>> wrote: 
      Heehee, David comments that Im not specific enough and Lou comments that Im too specific 

      As so... the life of an ecologist in Gaia. The elephant and the blindmen come to mind...

      Brian



      David Yarrow <dyarrow at nycap.rr.com <mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com>> wrote:
        you're stuck in generalizations.  forests are not all one type.  there are dozens of forest types, with widely varying characteristics, species, ages, processes, etc.  

        growing on vertical cliffs and steep talus slopes in the niagara river gorge is a forest of 700-1000 year old white cedars and associated herbaceous, insect and other species with little organic detritus blanketing the rocks.  

        at the other end of NY in the hudson valley is a forest of 300-700 year old mixed hardwood & hemlock trees growing in a deep, inaccessible ravine with no soil, but many feet of organic humus with thick mats of moss, ferns, liverworts, lichen and other primitive plants. 

        above that ravine, growing on bare, polished bedrock tables, is a forest of pitch pine and scrub oak -- 100-150 years old -- old for their species -- with a thin covering of understory, moss and soil. 

        three ancient forests with extremely varied characteristics, including age, species, rooting structures, associated species, soil forming and carbon fixing features.

        David Yarrow
        "If yer not forest, yer against us." 
        Turtle EyeLand Sanctuary
        44 Gilligan Road, East Greenbush, NY 12061
        dyarrow at nycap.rr.com<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com>
        www.championtrees.org<http://www.championtrees.org/>
        www.OnondagaLakePeaceFestival.org<http://www.onondagalakepeacefestival.org/>
        www.citizenre.com/dyarrow/<http://www.citizenre.com/dyarrow/>
        www.farmandfood.org<http://www.farmandfood.org/>
        www.SeaAgri.com<http://www.seaagri.com/>
         
        "Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times, 
        if one only remembers to turn on the light."  
        -Albus Dumbledore


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