[Terrapreta] Where to get the right charcoal?

[ch braun]

Hello Dave,

>I have an idea to write a little windows utility program to keep track of
char experiments.
Could you give more details on what your utility program is supposed to do?
I am currently writing a small form where data for char experiments can be
easily submitted and which then converts it in the proper xml format (which
can later be used to feed a database...this 2-step process was apparently
preferred than submitting directly the data in an online db). The first
draft should be finished this or next week.
Which programming language had you thought of for writing this tool?

>The entity relationships aren't and shouldn't be dictated by the XML spec,
so, if you don't object, I'd like to step up away from the xml/database
representation for a moment and just discuss the entities to be represented
and how they relate to each other.
I know, UML is indeed much better for representing and discussing the
relationships between entities. My initial motivation was actually to allow
people who are not familiar with UML to be able to propose their changes in
a more or less "formalized" manner directly in the xml file instead of (or
to complete) more "verbiose" explanations... But since almost nobody did it
that way, I think you are right and we should now rather switch and discuss
from the UML. Which editor do you use ? Could you send me the uml file
represented on the picture you sent me?

Now concerning the content itself, I think it's indeed the best solution to
distinguish between "PyrolysisMethod" and "PyrolysisEvent" (based on a
PyrolysisMethod). That solves the generic vs instance problem in a very
elegant and practical way.

>An Experiment is performed by a person, on a day, in a location and has a
pyrolysis event and log of what happened and what the persons observations,
and so an entity representing it would link to User, Location and
PyrolysisEvent and would include a date and Log field for the user to
include notes.
I have only a doubt as to the scope of what we call "experiment": I agree
with all that, but for me the actual "experiment" is the soil amendment,
right? So where do you put all that?

>It doesn't yet include any cultivation concepts, and it doesn't include an
Experiment entity. I can put that in later.
Mmm... probably that's what I'm now looking for :-)

Sincerely yours,
Christelle

On 9/26/07, code suidae < codesuidae at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/25/07, ch braun <brauncch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks a lot for your (very constructive!) comments.
>
>
> I'm glad you find them helpful. When you posted the links to the xml spec
> I started a UML model of it to see if I could understand it a bit. I have an
> idea to write a little windows utility program to keep track of char
> experiments. I figured if I use your model for describing the data it will
> make getting my results into the database completely painless.
>
> We've got two different things going on here. I think the purpose of the
> XML spec is for portability (yes?), so users can sync data between their
> local systems and a common database (upload to send their own results, and
> possibly download for off-line use of other's data). The entity
> relationships aren't and shouldn't be dictated by the XML spec, so, if you
> don't object, I'd like to step up away from the xml/database representation
> for a moment and just discuss the entities to be represented and how they
> relate to each other.
>
> I'm resistant to the idea of keying a kind of charcoal by the user.
> Ideally the details of the method and the feedstock should be sufficient to
> describe (and reproduce) a kind of charcoal. In practice it may be that
> quirks of the way a particular user produces the charcoal has an effect, but
> those quirks are a property of the production method, not of the user.
>
> compared with my proposal your changes for the parameters are:
> > * you added:
> > - title
> > - target temp
> > - description
> >
> > * you removed:
> > - mode (whether it is bought or selfmade)
> > - minimal temp
> > - peak temp
> > - heating rate
> > - duration
> >
> > For my point of view these were all "static" parameters? By target temp
> > you mean average temp ? otherwise is that not the same as peak temp?
>
>
> When you make cookies you have a recipe that specifies the ideal temp you
> should use, but when you actually bake them you might not achieve that temp,
> or you might have a temperature profile that deviates significantly from the
> idea. I'm trying to capture that relationship. Each dynamic char event is a
> little different, but is performed according to a certain static recipe.
> Rather than try to create 1000 different recipes capturing information like,
> 'the wind was blowing today so it ran a little hot, but was otherwise the
> same as the other trials', I think it makes sense to have some standard
> procedures that users define and follow, and then note deviations. If the
> deviations are great they are free to create a new recipe to describe that
> new method. What qualifies as 'great deviations' is a bit fuzzy, but that's
> the idea.
>
> it's a bit tricky to express it clearly!
>
>
> Indeed. I drew a picture to make what I'm talking about (hopefully) more
> clear. This includes only some of the core entities around making char. It
> doesn't yet include any cultivation concepts, and it doesn't include an
> Experiment entity. I can put that in later. This doesn't try to express all
> the necessary fields, particular on charcoal analysis.
>
> <http://picasaweb.google.com/codesuidae/FilePile/photo?authkey=iddYZc2GDTQ#5114567166834245234
> >
>
> or
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/yo7yze*
>
> An Experiment is performed by a person, on a day, in a location and has a
> pyrolysis event and log of what happened and what the persons observations,
> and so an entity representing it would link to User, Location and
> PyrolysisEvent and would include a date and Log field for the user to
> include notes.
>
> I'll stop now and see what you think.
> Dave K
> --
> "Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know." - M.
> King Hubbert
>
> _______________________________________________
> Terrapreta mailing list
> Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/terrapreta_bioenergylists.org/attachments/20070927/7cae48f1/attachment.html