[Terrapreta] Chacoal soaked in sea water

Wed Apr 9 20:08:52 CDT 2008

Another caveat: combustion of salt-impregnated wood produces dioxin. Whether
"quenching"  hot char with seawater would do so, I have no idea, but should
be considered.

http://www.mfe.govt.nz/issues/hazardous/contaminated/dioxin-faq/

Bernie

  _____  

From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
[mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Richard Haard
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 9:01 PM
To: Bernie Lenhoff
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Chacoal soaked in sea water

David and Sean 

I would recommend some reading based on a search of sodium+soil+colloid+CEC.
This  <http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=931218> article is an
abstract of effects of winter road salt on soil colloids. The sodium in
seawater is a soil pollutant and I would recommend a different approach to
get minor and trace minerals onto charcoal. 

An alternative is to use seaweed, or seaweed extracts. Some time ago I was
developing fertilizer and feed supplements from seaweed we cooked with a
steam jacketed cooker. The seaweed in your case could be cooked with surplus
heat when pyrolysing. The best seaweed to use are the brown seaweeds that
can be gathered as drift of harvested sustainably on rocky shores. Also
purchased as dried kelp. We used potassium carbonate as a cooking agent and
once the mixture of chopped seaweed brought to a boil release of the
colloids and minerals in cell contents is immediate. 

>From there you will have an excellent extraction of sea minerals minus the
sodium. The living cell membrane does the selective extraction of minerals
from seawater. 

Other references to check on this process are Lee Fryer, Food, Power from
the sea or Stephenson, Seaweed in agriculture and horticulture both books
explain how to make liquid seaweed extracts. 
On Apr 5, 2008, at 7:50 PM, Sean K. Barry wrote:

Hi David,

I understand the value of sea minerals for plants.  Could soaking fresh
charcoal in sea water add too much salt and raise the pH even more, making
already alkaline charcoal more alkaline with the Sodium-Na+ ions?  As I
understand soil inundated in seawater is too alkaline to have an effective
CEC or to grow plants in well.  Can you do something to seawater used in
charcoal to change that?  Or will you only dilute the salty charcoal in a
large amount of soil?

Regards,

SKB

----- Original Message -----
From: David  <mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> Yarrow
To: Terra Preta <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?

i am encouraged by the imagery of hot steam forcing water vapors deep into 
the dense networks of micropores in charcoal.  a steam treatment should 
rapidly reduce char's initial resistance to absorbing water.  might even 
induce a few explosions and ruptures to the cellular celluose matrix of 
micropores -- ripping open larger channels for macroscopic lifeforms to join

the community.

and since i'm most certainly making my char for soil enhancement, i 
definitely intend to quench my first 2008 batch of hot char with sea water. 
not just water, but sea water, to inject a full spectrum mineral solution 
into the char, and thus improve its potential as microbial habitat.  the 
sooner microbes find water and a full menu of minerals, the sooner they will

take up residence in the char.

for a green & peaceful planet,
David Yarrow
44 Gilligan Rd, E Greenbush, NY 12061
www.championtrees.org
www.OnondagaLakePeaceFestival.org
www.farmandfood.org
www.SeaAgri.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gerald Van Koeverden" <vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?

> John,
>
> Have you ever considered drenching hot char in water, especially the
> idea of injecting water into an air-tight container of hot char?
>
> This would not only solve the combustion problem, it would have the
> same effect, of course to a lesser extent, as the steam treatment of
> charcoal to activate it - i.e. increase its total porosity.  Such
> char might be more beneficial if it's to be used as a soil treatment.
>
> Gerrit
>
>
> On 29-Mar-08, at 10:30 AM, John G. Flottvik wrote:
>
>> Greg.
>>
>> We would put our hot charcoal into 45 gal drums with a sealed lid
>> to allow
>> cooling then transfer to super sacks.
>> At one time the char in drum felt only slightly warm to the touch
>> so we
>> transferred to super sack and stored in our 45 foot trailer. The warm
>> charcoal ignited and burned the trailer full of charcoal + the
>> trailer. Fire
>> department was unable to put the charcoal out so we just had to
>> baby sit and
>> let it burn/smolder until gone. Expensive lesson.
>>
>> Regards
>> John
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Greg and April" <gregandapril at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Terra Preta" <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 8:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?
>>
>>
>>> Hmmm........
>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not true that char can still be
>>> quite
>>> warm, and not burn when O2 comes in contact with it?
>>>
>>> It is with that in mind that I asked what I did in my previous post -
>>> after
>>> all, you didn't exactly say at what temp the char was cooling from
>>> did
>>> you?
>>>
>>> No offense,
>>> Greg H.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jeff Davis" <jeff0124 at velocity.net>
>>> To: "Terra Preta" <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 19:38
>>> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized
>>> conditions?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Greg wrote:
>>>>> when all you have to do
>>>>> is
>>>>> open the reactor door, since the natural composition of air is
>>>>> almost
>>>>> 80%
>>>>> ( by volume )?
>>>>
>>>> If you just open the door the O2 in the air will burn up you
>>>> charcoal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Jeff Davis
>>>>
>>>> Some where 20 miles south of Lake Erie, USA
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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>
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