[Terrapreta] maybe controversial

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Jim,

Beliefs do not need to be applied here.  Put into the context of well supported axioms (observable, well-measured evidence) and logic, the development of the "Theory of Anthropogenic Cause of Global Warming and Global Climate Change" is overwhelming and compelling for specific action (reduce GHG concentrations in the atmosphere immediately).  Certainly evidence is overwhelming for the existence of GW and GCC as current problems, even if one cannot wrap their head around anthropogenesis of it.

This argument of this theory does not rest on belief, but on sound scientific principles of testing hypothesis through experiment, developing predictions with logic, testing predictions, and supporting the overall theory with more predicted evidence.  It's not young research and it was/is not done by only a small group of scientists with bent political or religious affiliations.  There is great scientific rigor in the development.  

The good news is that human action changed the atmosphere once and then human activity can change it again.  The climate studies show us clearly what the problem is and indicate the workable solutions.  I have heard it said my more than just Al Gore, that the money we spend on the war in Iraq, redirected to fight against GCC, would put us well in the right direction to addressing GCC.  I'm sure Washington fiduciaries and accountants would be able to show you that isn't based on belief either.

The problem with conjecturing the GW/GCC problem in terms of belief is that it affords the skeptic the opportunity of accusing adherents to the science of GW/GCC of trampling on the beliefs of others.  What belief, I say?  If we look at the same facts and the same science, then I see no valid argument against this theory (no matter what you believe).  We can't let this be about beliefs.  We have to get everyone to open their eyes.  We do need to trigger activity in those neo-cortexes of ours and get those opposable thumbs into action and make a solution.

"I don't believe you, so I don't need to act.", they will say.  So what?!  I can act and think them foolhardy or heads stuck into the sand to not act in concert, or whatever.  Conversion by dictate is impossible, I know.  Education, enlightenment, idiotic observing of what every other beast on the planet can see, will all prevail to sway those who think that their belief on the issue matters.  GW/GCC happens!

Phenomena effect belief, right?  Katrina might?  A few oceanic countries and giant coastal cities disappearing under water might?  $10/gallon fuel and endless droughts and famine might effect a change in beliefs?

Regards,

SKB


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jim Joyner<mailto:jimstoy at dtccom.net> 
  To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] maybe controversial


  Lou,

  I would agree that beliefs abound; I would not agree that they are necessary for human life, certainly not survival. They rather seem an anathema to life to me. To say, "egos and beliefs, like other tools such as hammers, are only tools" is to use a badly fallacious analogy.

  Please don't confuse knowledge with beliefs. Knowledge is necessary for humans to survive, and difficult enough, But belief (whether correct or incorrect) is bound to something purely personal, and I mean that in the worst sense. ("Person" or "personal" comes from persona, a mask, a false front, the ego -- in a sense something that doesn't really exist except in thought. At best an illusion, at worst a delusion. The root word in belief is "lief" or wish. To say I believe is to say I be-wish . . . not a statement of knowledge)

  If I say, "the sun is coming up at 6:30AM", that is simply a statement of content that may be right or wrong : knowledge. It is not who I think I am. One can easily disagree with knowledge as right or wrong . . . if that is all it is, then no one will care. 

  If, however, I say, I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, the content of the statement isn't really the issue (right or wrong, rational or irrational). What is being stated is who I think I am. If that statement is threatened (disagreed upon), it is the same a as death threat to the speaker -- and he/she will fight as if death itself were at the door. Given legitimate use of weapons (gov't), he/she will dominate other life by force. Never fails. No exceptions. Just look around.

  To put beliefs on a level with "tools such as hammers" is to be Neville Chamberlain holding up a piece of paper signed by Hitler and saying, "you see, everything will be alright, they simply see things differently that we do". 

  Jim

  lou gold wrote: 
    yes, yes belief is only belief. like ego it is a necessary tool for survival. just try to function without any beliefs (such as crossing a street is potentially dangerous).

    but egos and beliefs, like other tools such as hammers, are only tools. it is important to know when not to use them.


    On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 1:22 PM, Jim Joyner <jimstoy at dtccom.net<mailto:jimstoy at dtccom.net>> wrote:

      Probably, the most dangerous commodity on the face of the planet is human belief systems. Not their content necessarily (which may or may not be correct), but just act of the believing, ultimately an expression of ego. 

      The worst of such belief systems are argued with the notion that logic makes them valid. They conveniently forget that all knowledge is based on assumptions or axioms, and that the quality of all thought (and probably the quality of human life) rests on the quality of assumptions made. They start with a belief, then they use the rational facility to justify it. Religions, governments and political ideologies come to mind. Sometimes, science. Some belief systems seem more innocuous than others. But, it may be they just don't have the guns yet to enforce the belief.

      These belief systems have been and are the source of practically all human suffering on the planet, not to mention the innocent bystander species.

      Jim

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