[Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/oroffsettingfossil carbon usage

Mon Apr 14 07:55:41 CDT 2008

Are farmers in Sweden already taking advantage of this $624/ton for  
char or charcoal returned to the soil?   This seems like a very very  
high price.

Nickolaus reported that charcoal makers in Brazil are producing  
charcoal for sale to steel makers for a mere $50/ton.

The wholesale price for charcoal in North America runs at about $200/ 
ton.

Gerrit

On 14-Apr-08, at 4:12 AM, Folke Günther wrote:

> I pointed out a method for rewarding carbon sequestration in http:// 
> terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/gunthercarbonsequestration032707 and  
> http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/gunthercarbondecide
>
> In some counties, you have to pay for carbon dioxide emissions.  
> Make it fair. Pay the sequesterer the same amount for doing the  
> negative of emissions – sequestration! I you are free to emit  
> whatever you want in your country; Stop that.
>
> In Sweden, you have to pay about 1 SEK  ($ 0.17) for the emission  
> of 1 kg carbon dioxide. 1 kg char correspond to 3.67 kg carbon  
> dioxide. Which means $ 624 dollars per metric tonne of char. It is  
> rather easy to grow a crop that gives you 6 tonnes of char per  
> hectare, the payment for the sequestration of which (in a fair  
> world) would be about $ 3700 per hectare.
>
> Make that universal, and I think you would come down to the 350 ppm  
> atmospheric carbon dioxide, the concentration that Jim Hansen  
> consider fairly safe, within 20 -30 years IF you can diminish  
> emissions  by 85% during the same time.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---------
>
> Folke Günther
>
> Kollegievägen 19
>
> 224 73 Lund, Sweden
>
> home/office: +46 46 14 14 29
>
> cell:               0709 710306  skype:  folkegun
>
> Homepage:     http://www.holon.se/folke
> blog: http://folkegunther.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> Från: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org [mailto:terrapreta- 
> bounces at bioenergylists.org] För Greg and April
> Skickat: den 14 april 2008 07:50
> Till: Terra Preta
> Ämne: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/ 
> oroffsettingfossil carbon usage
>
>
>
> Until people are willing to buy carbon credits for the cost of  
> actually sequestering carbon - then actually sequester the carbon -  
> it isn't going to happen, and it will be next to useless to try.
>
>
>
> As things stand, they are going to want to deduct the cost of  
> sequester the carbon from their taxes, while actually only paying  
> what it would cost to buy a carbon credit ( as it currently  
> stands ), and as such it isn't going to happen, any time soon.
>
>
>
>
>
> The theory of buying carbon credits is just political flim flam  
> that feels good but does nothing.
>
>
>
>
>
> As for the Kyoto Protocols, it's just a rob Peter to pay Paul  
> scam.    All nations ( rich and poor ) have to work on the problem  
> at the same time - otherwise carbon credits just transfers the  
> carbon debt ( and favors the economies of undeveloped nations ) and  
> really doesn't accomplish anything.
>
>
>
> The undeveloped nations say they should have their day in the sun,  
> but, where is the logic of building up a large economy based of the  
> short term cheap energy of petroleum when they know that they are  
> going to spend extra, in order to convert it to renewable?    They  
> should be thankful for having the chance to build their growing  
> economy's on renewable in the first place, and learn from the  
> mistakes of the "developed" nations, and not go through the  
> renewable teething pains that the US is.
>
>
>
>
>
> I've said it a million times, until people are actually willing to  
> pay what it cost, to sequester carbon, it's not going to be  
> profitable to do so.    Until it's profitable to sequester carbon,  
> the only people who are going to do so, are those that have some  
> moral conviction to do so, otherwise, you end up with a lot of Al  
> Gore types, that do a lot of talking, but when it comes down to  
> walking the walk, they are unwilling to leave their air conditioned  
> homes, because it might be a little warm outside.
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg H.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Sean K. Barry
>
> To: Terra Preta ; lou gold ; Ron Larson
>
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 22:08
>
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/or  
> offsettingfossil carbon usage
>
>
>
> Terra Preta Members,
>
>
>
> 'A reward system for improved agricultural and forestry practices  
> that sequester carbon could remove the current CO2 overshoot. With  
> simultaneous policies to reduce non-CO2 greenhouse gases, it  
> appears still feasible to avert catastrophic climate change.'"
>
>
>
> Stopping the use of fossil carbon fuels is undeniably the only  
> course.  Replacement of that energy resource is the cost.  Before  
> fossil fuel moguls reap those profits, milked-out of the public at  
> slowly ever-increasing prices, the use of fossil carbon has to  
> almost become like the use of illegal drugs.  Those dealers need to  
> go out of business (or adapt).
>
>
>
> My best idea on eliminating the use of fossil fuels is for the US  
> government to sign the Kyoto Protocol, then pay an IRS tax  
> deduction (or credit) to every US citizen and/or business who will  
> buy carbon credits on the world carbon trading market.   
> Conservation, better insulation, hybrid vehicles, etc. are  
> necessary too, but they can only lower the rising trend lines of  
> GHG concentrations temporarily, and will NEVER reduce emissions  
> (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox).  Homes,  
> vehicles, and businesses could have their "carbon-footprint"  
> audited and apply for credits up to that limit.
>
>
>
> Then, the government could reduce it's expenses by increasing the  
> CAFÉ standards.
>
>
>
> What does anyone else think of this idea?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> SKB
>
>
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