[Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminatingand/oroffsettingfossil carbon usage

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Folke,

How is 1kg @ $0.17 = 1 metric ton (1000 kilograms) @ $624?  Seems like this number ought to be $170.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Folke Günther<mailto:folke at holon.se> 
  To: 'Greg and April'<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> ; 'Terra Preta'<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:12 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminatingand/oroffsettingfossil carbon usage


  I pointed out a method for rewarding carbon sequestration in http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/gunthercarbonsequestration032707<http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/gunthercarbonsequestration032707> and http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/gunthercarbondecide<http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/gunthercarbondecide> 

  In some counties, you have to pay for carbon dioxide emissions. Make it fair. Pay the sequesterer the same amount for doing the negative of emissions - sequestration! I you are free to emit whatever you want in your country; Stop that.

  In Sweden, you have to pay about 1 SEK  ($ 0.17) for the emission of 1 kg carbon dioxide. 1 kg char correspond to 3.67 kg carbon dioxide. Which means $ 624 dollars per metric tonne of char. It is rather easy to grow a crop that gives you 6 tonnes of char per hectare, the payment for the sequestration of which (in a fair world) would be about $ 3700 per hectare. 

  Make that universal, and I think you would come down to the 350 ppm atmospheric carbon dioxide, the concentration that Jim Hansen consider fairly safe, within 20 -30 years IF you can diminish emissions  by 85% during the same time.

   

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

  Folke Günther

  Kollegievägen 19

  224 73 Lund, Sweden

  home/office: +46 46 14 14 29

  cell:               0709 710306  skype:  folkegun

  Homepage:     http://www.holon.se/folke<http://www.holon.se/folke>  
  blog: http://folkegunther.blogspot.com/<http://folkegunther.blogspot.com/>

   


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  Från: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] För Greg and April
  Skickat: den 14 april 2008 07:50
  Till: Terra Preta
  Ämne: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/oroffsettingfossil carbon usage

   

  Until people are willing to buy carbon credits for the cost of actually sequestering carbon - then actually sequester the carbon - it isn't going to happen, and it will be next to useless to try.

   

  As things stand, they are going to want to deduct the cost of sequester the carbon from their taxes, while actually only paying what it would cost to buy a carbon credit ( as it currently stands ), and as such it isn't going to happen, any time soon.

   

   

  The theory of buying carbon credits is just political flim flam that feels good but does nothing.

   

   

  As for the Kyoto Protocols, it's just a rob Peter to pay Paul scam.    All nations ( rich and poor ) have to work on the problem at the same time - otherwise carbon credits just transfers the carbon debt ( and favors the economies of undeveloped nations ) and really doesn't accomplish anything.    

   

  The undeveloped nations say they should have their day in the sun, but, where is the logic of building up a large economy based of the short term cheap energy of petroleum when they know that they are going to spend extra, in order to convert it to renewable?    They should be thankful for having the chance to build their growing economy's on renewable in the first place, and learn from the mistakes of the "developed" nations, and not go through the renewable teething pains that the US is.

   

   

  I've said it a million times, until people are actually willing to pay what it cost, to sequester carbon, it's not going to be profitable to do so.    Until it's profitable to sequester carbon, the only people who are going to do so, are those that have some moral conviction to do so, otherwise, you end up with a lot of Al Gore types, that do a lot of talking, but when it comes down to walking the walk, they are unwilling to leave their air conditioned homes, because it might be a little warm outside. 

   

   

  Greg H.

   

   

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 

    To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; lou gold<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com> ; Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net> 

    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 22:08

    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/or offsettingfossil carbon usage

     

    Terra Preta Members,

     

    'A reward system for improved agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon could remove the current CO2 overshoot. With simultaneous policies to reduce non-CO2 greenhouse gases, it appears still feasible to avert catastrophic climate change.'"

     

    Stopping the use of fossil carbon fuels is undeniably the only course.  Replacement of that energy resource is the cost.  Before fossil fuel moguls reap those profits, milked-out of the public at slowly ever-increasing prices, the use of fossil carbon has to almost become like the use of illegal drugs.  Those dealers need to go out of business (or adapt).

     

    My best idea on eliminating the use of fossil fuels is for the US government to sign the Kyoto Protocol, then pay an IRS tax deduction (or credit) to every US citizen and/or business who will buy carbon credits on the world carbon trading market.  Conservation, better insulation, hybrid vehicles, etc. are necessary too, but they can only lower the rising trend lines of GHG concentrations temporarily, and will NEVER reduce emissions (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox).  Homes, vehicles, and businesses could have their "carbon-footprint" audited and apply for credits up to that limit.

     

    Then, the government could reduce it's expenses by increasing the CAFÉ standards.

     

    What does anyone else think of this idea?

     

    Regards,

     

    SKB



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