[Terrapreta] Ponder the Maunder

[lou gold]

Jim,

I think that we mostly agree. Indeed, maybe even completely. Perhaps we just
have different roles to play -- mine is to help to mobilize political
support for a workable program and yours to check the facts to make sure
that the program works. In this sense of differing roles skepticism may help
you more than it helps me.

I keep repeating that I see the GW-TP link as an excellent way to mobilize
resources for improving soils whereas if GW is not a problem then it might
be politically more appropriate (as McCain is choosing) to focus on lowering
gasoline prices rather than improving the soil. Yep, I know that politics
gets weird and messy but that's how the choices are getting formulated.

BTW, Brazil just announced that it has discovered the third largest oil
reserve in the world and local rumor here is that they are close to
announcing the discovery of another one even five times larger. It's
expensive deep ocean drilling but it's there waiting for the price to be
right. Oil prices are going to continue to rise. Food is going to get more
and more expensive. And apetites for high protein food like meat are
developing in tandem with economic development.

There are  already food riots:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/15/business/worldbusiness/15food.html?ei=5087&em=&en=c404a9e3b6e51920&ex=1208404800&pagewanted=all

It's going to get worse. We can let lots of people die in the weaker
countries. We can go to war to try to curtail the more aggressive developing
countries. We can try to create a more abundant soil and agriculture to
benefit of the many. These are some of the broad policy choices that are
being thrust upon us. I believe that you and I would choose a more abundant
soil (if it works). I believe that we would do this because it seems like a
better world for the kids whose future we hold.

I believe that we are allies. I'm on the global warming train because I
believe that it is going to help both of us.

hugs,

lou

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Jim Joyner <jimstoy at dtccom.net> wrote:

>  lou gold wrote:
>
> Fair enough. I'll try to elaborate.
>
> Some of us believe that terra preta will make the world a better place.
> That is why I am on this forum. I have no hard evidence to prove that terra
> preta will make the world a better place but I have both feeling and faith
> that it will. If I doubted it or if I was skeptical I would not be here.
>
> I guess that I'm asking a parallel question of you because I know that
> there comes a time to put doubt aside and act. I *feel* that now is the
> time for terra preta and that the difference that makes the difference
> between now and other times (when we could not have cared less about terra
> preta) is our growing desire to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.
>
> How does it work for you?
>
> Lou,
>
> I suspect, and even hope, the world will be a better place because of
> Terra Preta. I'm putting char into the ground with great positive
> expectations. If it works, that's good. If doesn't, well, it just doesn't.
> But it's not my purpose to make the world a better place. Not sure I have a
> purpose, a manifest destiny, if you will. It will work or it won't. Not a
> believer nor a disbeliever. I'm here because there is a *possibility*. If
> I thought there were no possibility, I wouldn't be here either. But, we can
> only breathe one breath after the other, set one foot in front of the other.
>
> I remain skeptical of a variety of things, not because I don't want them
> to happen but because I think we need to be very careful (as we may not get
> anymore chances at this).
>
> As you have pointed out the problems we have on this planet are massive
> (even putting aside CO2). And, there seems to be only a small awareness of
> that. But I guess I don't see how cheer leading does much to make that
> better. There may well be a place for that "positivity", but we need to be
> very certain of our facts, otherwise, all the well-meaningness in the world
> won't help. As far as I can tell the only way to be certain  is to challenge
> every fact and challenge every person who delivers the facts, particularly
> when those persons have the use of "legitimate" force behind them.
>
> Probably, the closest thing I have to a belief (probably the core of my
> skepticism too) is that the use of force is always wrong and it always ends
> in tears -- no matter who does it or for what purpose. People who have the
> use of force can and will always rationalize themselves as positive, in the
> right. Every nightmare in blood on this planet has been accompanied by a
> "glorious" cause. A little blood or a lot of blood, it's all the same.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Jim Joyner <jimstoy at dtccom.net> wrote:
>
> >  lou gold wrote:
> >
> >
> >   lou gold wrote:
> > >
> > > Please excuse my directness but I want to ask a personal question. Do
> > > you think that we can make the world a better place through endless doubt?
> > >
> > >  No, of course not.
> > >
> >
> > Ok. Now, what is the good positive thing that you believe in for making
> > the world a better place?
> >
> >  I guess I don't know what you are looking for. Basically, I eat when
> > I'm hungry, sleep when I tired; raise my kids; grow my garden. What else is
> > there?
> >
> > Not sure I have any such beliefs. We'll either get it right or we won't.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
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