[Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

[lou gold]

Kevin,

I'm curious if you have read the masthead on arclien's (bob's) blog?

It says:

 We discuss and comment on the role agriculture will play in the elimination
of the CO2 problem. A model farm template is utilized.

Is this really the approach that you want to defend?

Not skeptical but ever curious,

lou


On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
wrote:

> Dear Sean
>
> Sean K. Barry wrote:
> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > Again with this post.  Whatever the Indios did to make charcoal out of
> > whatever they used DOES NOT MATTER TODAY!  When are you going to grasp
> > this?
>
> You have no idea how TP was made, how it was used, how much was
> Anthropogenic, what if anything was the purpose of the shards, whether
> or not the Terra Preta Growing Paradigm is appropriate for temperate
> climates, or whether it is an economically sound growing practise in
> temperate climates,  and you seem to have lost sight of the fact that TP
> was configured as part of a food supply system. When are you going to
> grasp this?
> >   Recommending to make charcoal in earthen kilns (in the open air)
> > made from corn stalks is a bad idea.
>
> Robert is not recommending to make charcoal in earthen kilns. He is
> simply seeking to understand how the Anthropogenic Terra Preta was made
> and used.  When are you going to grasp this?
> >   There is no way to do this without massive releases of Methane-CH4,
> > which has been discussed ad-nauseum with you as a significant
> > potential problem with this plan.
>
> What plan? Robert is not proposing to make charcoal and smoke out the
> neighbourhood. When are you going to grasp this?
> >   Also, just like there isn't enough corn grown in the world to make
> > enough ethanol to supply the world's thirst for transportation fuel,
> > there IS NOT ENOUGH CORN STALKS IN THE WORLD to make the amount of
> > charcoal we need to form enough Terra Preta and/or make any kind of
> > difference on agricultural food production or global climate mitigation.
>
> Robert is not advocating making charcoal from corn stalks. When are you
> going to grasp this?
> >
> > Move on.  Your past one idea (Earthen Kiln Conjecture) is too limited
> > and problematic to be a solution or of any value to us, Robert.
>
>
> 2+2 = 5... Robert's answer could very well be correct. The problem is
> that you are posing the wrong question. Terra Preta, as an agricultural
> system in widespread use by the Brazilian Indians, was not configured as
> a Carbon Sequestering procedure, or as a system for alleviating the
> level of CO2 in the atmosphere of 2008. When are you going to grasp this?
>
> > That's my opinion and widely held in this group, I think.
>
> I would suggest that your views are widely held by a small faction more
> interested in Climate Remediation than understanding and appreciating
> the Real  Terra Preta for what it was, what it is, and what it can be.
> When are you going to grasp this?
>
> I would also suggest that your response to Robert's conjecture about a
> portion of the TP puzzle is very unprofessional.
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > SKB
> >
> >
> >
> >     ----- Original Message -----
> >     *From:* Robert Klein <mailto:arclein at yahoo.com>
> >     *To:* terra pretta group <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> >     *Sent:* Monday, April 14, 2008 1:14 PM
> >     *Subject:* [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture
> >
> >     Ihave reposted an article by David Bennet with Lehmann on Terra
> >     Preta publishedin 2005.  This outlines the most
> >     criticalinformation as well as describing the original scope of
> >     the Indian civilizationitself. It is
> >     at:
> http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2008/04/earthen-terra-preta-kilns-and-pollen.htmlAgainthis
> >     lays out the limiting factors and fully supports my earthen
> >     kilnconjecture, particularly the following quotation."There has
> >     been some pollen analysis. It suggests manioc and maize were
> >     being grown 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. In the pollen bank, these
> >     crops didn't
> >     pop up sporadically but in large numbers."
> >     Ihave also polished my description of the protocol and am
> >     activelypromoting  field trials.Firstly,the maize or corn exists
> >     in an environment that mitigated against its use forpurely food
> >     production.  There werealternatives far better suited. to the non
> >     terra preta environment, startingimmediately with manioc which I
> >     think is a rainforest friendly plant. Secondly,the only viable
> >     source of meat protein to these peoples at this populationdensity
> >     was through fish.  Withoutconfirmation, a pond with tilapia makes
> >     great sense. It was a staple for the Maya.The waste from the daily
> >     meal could be readily folded into any growing seedhill.  Human
> >     waste could simply have beenburied in the field itself avoiding
> >     any storage.  This is common practice to this day. Themaking of
> >     the earthen kiln is no more difficult than uprooting the
> >     dehydratedcorn stalks after harvest and properly stacking them to
> >     form an earthen walledkiln with a wall thickness of two to three
> >     root pads
> >      and an interior of tightlypacked corn stalks.  Obviously, any
> >     otherplant material, including wood can be built into the stack as
> >     available.  The earthen wall nicely restricts air flowduring the
> >     burn phase and lends itself to optimization by changing the
> >     wallthickness.  It also minimizes the amountof human effort needed
> >     which is through the roof if you are attempting to coveror bury a
> >     ten ton pile of stubble or branches. Thisgives you a kiln with
> >     vertical earthen walls and a possibly domed top that canbe easily
> >     covered with earth.  Again,field trials will optimize this
> >     protocol very easily.  The kiln could be squared off or perhaps
> >     evencircular though unlikely. The only tool to this point is a
> >     strong back ortwo.  We have gathered several tons ofcorn stover
> >     over perhaps an acre of land with only a little more effort
> >     thanthat annually required to clear the field and burn the waste.
> >     Nowwe must fire the kiln.  The easy way isto take a clay lined old
> >     basket
> >      and fill it up with coals from a woodfire.  Carry this ember
> >     charge to thecenter of the kiln top and tip the charge onto the
> >     exposed center and place thebasket as a cap to the newly forming
> >     chimney.
> >     More clay may be necessary to widen the chimney cap.  Throw more
> >     earth on top of this to preventbreakout of the fire.  Keep
> >     throwingearth on any breakout points that start.
> >     The chimney will serve to burn all the volatiles produced as the
> >     hotzone expands to fill the collapsing kiln until they are
> >     exhausted.  Thereupon the hot zone will cool off leavinga blend of
> >     biochar, ash and earth and some root ends for the next kiln.  And
> >     yes, we should have a lot of fired clay. Thebiochar itself will be
> >     a range of nonvolatile combustion products that willrange from
> >     even dried vegetation to activated charcoal following a nice
> >     bellcurve.  The material can be then gatheredin baskets and
> >     redistributed into the field onto the seed hills again
> >     reducingwastage and effort. Irealized originally that the only
> >     ancient plant that could accommodate a highenough volume of terra
> >     preta production was good old maize.  It just seemed an unlikely
> >     option fortropical rainforests. That is when I started looking for
> >     references to thepollen record.  The article by DavidBennett and
> >     Lehmann is one of those reverences that then emerged. Iwould like
> >     to get a full
> >      spectrum of the pollen profile since it seems verylikely that
> >     while the fence rows held the food trees, it seems more likely
> >     thatthey also used a variation of the three sisters using some
> >     form of convenientlegume.  Squashes also, of course, butnot nearly
> >     as important. Thekey point of all this is that a family can
> >     convert a field into terra preta inone short season, allowing them
> >     to repeat the process thereafter as necessaryuntil the field is
> >     completely transformed to depth.  Today, we can do the same thing
> >     using shovelsand a garbage can lid.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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