[Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

[David Hirst .com]

It occurs to me that our speculations, which I find fascinating and useful, do not
mention metals at all. When we contemplate earlier cultures, we often classify them by
their metal. Bronze Age, Iron Age etc.. The Stone Age was an earlier one, and was a broad
definition of the sorts of technologies used. And there is considerable evidence that
some of these technologies were traded quite widely. Flints mined in one part of England
are found over a much wider area. And precious metals, like gold, were highly valued, and
preserved.

Yet with the Terra Preta evidence, there seem to be almost no metals (or even stones).
That is, a culture seemingly living exclusively on the products of the forest and its
soils. Which leaves almost no conventional archaeological evidence.

Do we know of cultures today that can live in such a way? Axes and knives would be very
useful, highly valued, and so presumably, objects of trade.

A further rich vein of possible speculation, but I hope somebody can point to references
or evidence.

Regards

David

David Hirst

 

david at davidhirst.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
[mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of MFH
Sent: 18 April 2008 01:16
To: 'Robert Klein'
Cc: 'terra pretta group'; Penny Kater
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

 

Bob, maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree (pun intended).

 

My own trials show that heavy dense timbers (such as Ironbark - Euc

paniculata) produce charcoal that is "tougher" than char produced from bark

or softwoods, and harder to break up. I haven't tried corn stubble or corn

cobs, but I suspect that these would produce char that crumbles readily.

 

So perhaps the Indians didn't convert huge trees into char as such. If they

used crop residues and maybe the leaves and twigs from the cleared trees,

this would all be likely to crumble easily. Maybe they added mulch gathered

from the forest floor. It may not have been necessary to fell considerable

numbers of trees, and not necessary to provide labour to break up the char. 

 

Since first learning of TP I have struggled with the logistics of where the

labour came from to fell the trees, cut them up for char production, grind

the char lumps, and then distribute over a relatively wide area. However, if

crop residues and other similar materials (e.g. weeds) were used then that

changes the labour demands dramatically, and to my thinking makes the whole

process much more feasible.

 

If the average family unit produced one kilo of char/day, that's a total of

36 tonnes over 100 years. We've forgotten what its like for a family to be

tied to one area for 100 years, but it wasn't uncommon 2000 years ago, and

certainly isn't uncommon in countries like Papua New Guinea today.

 

I am a lot more comfortable with this possible low-labour, long-term process

than a labour-intensive, short-term conversion of forest into charcoal.

 

However, I still ponder over at least one puzzle. Although communities in

isolation can be credited with a range of new discoveries and techniques,

invariably these same discoveries and techniques were evident in other

communities that had no possible communication link.  Is anyone aware of the

use of char for soil improvement anywhere else in the world? The climate,

soil and topography conditions in the Amazon basin are replicated elsewhere.

There is no suggestion that the Amazonian Indians were more or less

intelligent than peoples elsewhere. On the assumption that enhancement of

soil by char happened accidentally in the first place and it was a matter of

observation rather than invention that promoted its use, how come there is

no evidence of similar use in Asia, the Pacific or Africa?

 

Seems to be that we've been brilliant enough to lace most of the world's

crop land with residual pesticides, herbicides and fungicides, but too

otherwise occupied to use a soil improvement technique that appears to be

blindingly obvious. And with Urea prices now around $500/tonne the

manufacture and distribution of char is viable. At the end of the day it

will be economic viability not legislation that will see the wide-scale

production of char.

 

Max H

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Robert Klein [mailto:arclein at yahoo.com] 

Sent: Thursday, 17 April 2008 4:12 PM

To: MFH

Cc: terra pretta group

Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

 

I wish that I could quote the proper reference but i seem to recall that the

carbon content was primarily in powdered form conforming to a non wood

source with only a little scattered wood charcoal.  Certainly it was a

primary question for the first investigators and everyone now forgets that

every fresh audience is going to want to know this.

 

bob

 

----- Original Message ----

From: MFH <mfh01 at bigpond.net.au>

To: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>

Cc: Robert Klein <arclein at yahoo.com>; terra pretta group

<terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>

Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 5:20:15 PM

Subject: RE: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

 

Kevin

 

My question wasn't clear enough - it was related to the size of the charcoal

pieces rather than the pottery chards. If, for example, the average char

piece is less than 2mm diameter, then a whole new labour dimension is added.

How were chunks of charcoal reduced to 2mm pieces, by multiples of tonnes,

in the absence of iron or steel.?

 

Some may disagree, but I think its important to try and determine how the

char was produced, broken up and distributed, in the substantial volumes and

over the substantial areas that are now evident. In general, women

contribute most of the labour in subsistence agriculture communities,

including the majority of the work in planting, tending and harvesting of

crops. Add this to their other motherhood and home tasks and the puzzle

intensifies as to where the labour came from to produce and distribute such

great quantities of char. Labour costs are likely to be a seriously limiting

factor in producing large quantities of char today.

 

What can we learn from the Amazonians? It would be foolish to cast their

techniques aside because "after all they were primitive peoples living a

subsistence life". I'm reminded that the Chinese and Indians produced carbon

steel some 2000 years before the Europeans learnt how. Being able to

economically produce millions of tonnes of char tomorrow will be a lot more

beneficial to the planet and mankind than developing a new iPod that stores

657,283 noise files.

 

Max H

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Kevin Chisholm [mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net] 

Sent: Thursday, 17 April 2008 9:15 AM

To: MFH

Cc: 'Robert Klein'; 'terra pretta group'

Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

 

Dear Max

 

Good questions!! I don't have such information.

 

One thing that would be very interesting also would be to learn if 

anyone has actually re-assembled a pot/container from the shards found 

on the TP sites. If sufficient related shards have not been found to 

re-assemble a pottery piece, is there enough information about pottery 

shard shape to infer that it came from a bowl, a pot, a urn, a roof 

tile, etc?

 

One could probably infer from the average size if the shards were 

"accidentally broken, or purposely broken".

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

 

MFH wrote:

> Kevin

> 

> Do you (or anyone else) have any data on:

> 

> a) the average size of the char pieces in the TP soil in the Amazon

> b) the largest piece recorded to date, and

> c) the smallest

> 

> Thanks, Max H

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org

> [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Chisholm

> Sent: Thursday, 17 April 2008 8:18 AM

> To: Robert Klein

> Cc: terra pretta group

> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

> 

> Dear Robert

> 

> Robert Klein wrote:

>   

>> Iam reposting to my blog 

>> http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/ this article by David Bennet

>>     

> with Lehmann on Terra Preta in2005.  This reconfirms the most

> criticalinformation as well as describes the original scope of the Indian

> civilizationitself.Againthis lays out the limiting factors and fully

> supports my earthen kilnconjecture.

> 

> I like your Earth Kiln Conjecture, in that it sets out a possible 

> explanation for the presence of charcoal in TP areas.

>   

>>  Firstly,the maize or corn exists in an environment that mitigated

against

>>     

> its use forpurely food production.  There werealternatives far better

> suited. to the non terra preta environment, startingimmediately with

manioc

> which is a rainforest friendly plant.

> 

> See: http://www.davidparsons.net/Milpa/M_intro.html, that describes the 

> Milpa System of primitive agriculture as is presently practised in parts 

> of the Yucutan and Belize. Basically, a space is cleared in the jungle, 

> and "The Three Sisters" (Maize, Beans, and Squash) were planted. This 

> system works, and is simple but labor intensive, due to the need to 

> clear new land every year. I would pose that Milpa was the original 

> agriculture system, and that it evolved into the Terra Preta system, 

> that did not require annual clearing of jungle for one crop and then 7 

> to 20 years of fallow. In summary, the addition of char to a Milpa Plot, 

> would allow addition and retention of additional nutrients, to enhance 

> growth.

>   

>> Secondly,the only viable source of meat protein to these peoples at this

>>     

> populationdensity was through fish.  Withoutconfirmation, a pond with

> tilapia makes great sense. The waste from the dailymeal could be readily

> folded into any growing seed hill.  Human waste could simply have been

> buried inthe field itself avoiding any storage. 

>   

>>   

>>     

> 

> Such a system would make sense in the context of smaller, dispersed 

> villages. The important thing is that large villages and communities 

> start from small villages and communities. Aquaculture was practised in 

> Chile or Peru, where fish were grown in the irrigation channels in the 

> sides of mountainous terrain, where there was the grade for water 

> conveyance. A key thing was that such "fish water" conveyed both 

> phosporous and potassium to the plants, in addition to the water. 

> Tilapia are a very special fish, in that they can live on algae. Algae 

> growth can be promoted by addition of manure to the irrigation water, 

> and the Tilapia can grow under "green water conditions", as is employed 

> in SE Asia Pond Culture. In larger communities, the field irrigation 

> channels would provide a very convenient way for disposal of night soil.

>   

>> This is common practice to this day.Themaking of the earthen kiln is no

>>     

> more difficult than uprooting the dehydratedcorn stalks and properly

> stacking them to form an earthen walled kiln with awall thickness of two

to

> three root pads and an interior of tightly packed cornstalks.

> 

> Given that the Primitive Farmer went to all the work of  clearing a hole 

> in the Jungle, and given that he had one good year with a bountiful 

> harvest, it would be a natural step to try and avoid the extra work 

> required to clear more Jungle, to continue with the cropping/fallow 

> cycle. It would be a lot easier to pull the maize stalks and stack them 

> as you suggest, to dispose of them in an attempt at getting another year 

> out of a particular Milpa Clearing. The Milpa System employs fire as a 

> "clearing aid", and in the attached photo, charcoal is evident.

> http://www.davidparsons.net/Milpa/M_practices.html.  Note however, that 

> with the Milpa System, the exposed sticks and stalks would generally 

> burn to completion. However, with Robert's Earthen Kiln Hypothesis, the 

> "root ball walls" would tend to collapse onto the partially 

> burned/charred corn stocks, smothering the fire, preventing it from 

> going to completion, and thereby producing a much higher yield of  

> residual char than would an open bonfire.

>   

>>   Obviously, any other plantmaterial, including wood can be built into

the

>>     

> stack as available.  The earthen wall nicely restricts air flowduring the

> burn phase and lends itself to optimization by changing thethickness.  It

> also minimizes the amountof human effort needed which is through the roof

if

> you are attempting to covera pile of stubble or branches.Thisgives you a

> kiln with vertical earthen walls and a possibly domed top that canbe

easily

> covered with earth.  Again,field trials will optimize this protocol very

> easily.  The kiln could be squared of or perhaps even circularthough

> unlikely. The only tool to this point is a strong back or two. 

> 

> Nowadays, the Milpa Farmers have the benefit of steel machetes, and 

> would be able to easily cut the stalks from the root ball. Without a 

> machette, it would be much easier to pull up the entire stalk, and stack 

> the stalk and root ball in the manner suggested by Robert. Certainly, 

> the incremental effort to pull and stack the stalks would be less than 

> the effort to move to another site and clear more jungle.

>   

>>  We have gathered several tons of

>>  corn stoverover perhaps an acre of land with only a little more effort

>>     

> than that requiredto clear the field and burn the waste.Nowwe must fire

the

> kiln.  The easy way isto take a clay lined old basket and fill it up with

> coals from a woodfire.  Carry this ember charge to thecenter of the kiln

top

> and tip the charge onto the exposed center and place thebasket as a cap to

> the newly forming chimney. 

>   

>> More clay may be necessary to widen the chimney cap.  Throw more earth on

>>     

> top of this to preventbreakout of the fire.  Keep growing earthon any

> breakout points that start.  Thechimney will serve to burn all the

volatiles

> produced as the hot zone expandsto fill the collapsing kiln until they are

> exhausted. 

> 

> If the Farmers were simply trying to get rid of vegetative waste, to 

> avoid opening up new Jungle, then they may not have been very interested 

> in plugging up any air leakage points. Less labor would be involved is 

> simply "stack and burn", rather than tending the earthen kiln. They had 

> no need to burn the volatiles to completion. Indeed, the smoke would 

> probably be beneficial, through dispersing mosquitos and insects.

> 

>   

>>  Thereupon the hot zone will cool off leavinga blend of biochar, ash and

>>     

> earth and some root ends for the next kiln.  And yes, we should have a lot

> of fired clay.

> 

> This is very interesting. Loose earth from the rootballs would not be 

> compacted sufficiently to yield the pottery shards we now associate with 

> Terra Preta. However, the process could very well have produced 

> "microshards" of "pottery". Actually, this "fired soil" would not be 

> "microshards", in that the term "shard" usually refers to "broken pieces 

> of pottery", and it would not be "pottery", in that the term usually 

> refers to "a formed clay shape that was fired to enhance its 

> properties." It would be expected that this would be a "low temperature 

> firing", and it is thus not likely that the "fired root ball pottery 

> particles" would be able to endure the ravages of 500 to 4,000 years of 

> tropical weathering.

>   

>> Thebiochar itself will be a range of nonvolatile combustion products that

>>     

> willrange from even dried vegetation to activated charcoal following a

nice

> bellcurve.  The material can be then gatheredin baskets and redistributed

> into the field onto the seed hills again reducingwastage and

> effort.Irealized originally that the only ancient plant that could

> accommodate a highenough volume of terra preta production was good old

> maize.  It just seemed an unlikely option fortropical rainforests. That is

>   

>>  when I started looking for references to thepollen record.  The article

>>     

> by DavidBennett and Lehmann is one of those reverences that then

> emerged..Iwould like to get a full spectrum of the pollen profile since it

> seems verylikely that while the fence rows held the food trees, it seems

> more likely thatthey also used a variation of the three sisters using some

> form of convenientlegume.  Squashes also, of course, butnot nearly as

> important.Thekey point of all this is that a family can convert a field

into

> terra preta inone short season, allowing them to repeat the process

> thereafter as necessaryuntil the field is completely transformed to depth.

> Today, we can do the same thing using shovelsand a garbage can lid.

Terra

> preta: unearthing an agriculturalgoldmineNov 14, 2005 10:36 AM, By David

> Bennett

>   

>>   

>>     

> 

> In http://www.davidparsons.net/Milpa/M_threats.html, there is reference 

> to "insufficient period of fallow". It would indeed be advantageous to 

> be able to extend the productive period of a Milpa, to avoid the need to 

> clear more jungle. Weeds are a problem in a fertile soil. What they 

> needed for sustained cropping of a given milpa area would be

> 1: A mulch system, that focused growth where they wanted it, and

> 2: Plant nutrients.

> 

> Now, people don't live in the fields where they are attempting to grow 

> their food crops. They would live adjacent to their fields. They would, 

> of course, be producing Nightsoil, and naturally, they would need to 

> dispose of it. Fresh manure and night soil could damage the crops. For 

> the simple reason of smell, it would make sense to have adjacent fields 

> working on "short fallow system"... crop one field area, while applying 

> the humanure to an adjacent area. This would allow pathogens the time to 

> degrade to a safe level. An additional "health protection benefit" of 

> the "Three Sisters" is that they are all "above ground crops."

> 

> They had pots made of "pottery", and these pots over time would break. 

> It would not take long for a Farmer to discover that pottery shards make 

> an excellent mulch, in that plants do not grow up through pottery 

> pieces. A further benefit of such pottery mulch is that it is fireproof. 

> It would be a relatively easy thing to simply "burn the weeds". A 

> further benefit using such a "fireproof mulch" is that there would tend 

> to be moisture retention below the shards, and this moisture would tend 

> to prevent loss of organic material from the soil. Fire burning of the 

> weed tops with pottery shards as a "fireproof mulch" would result in an 

> increase of organic material in the soil, from the weed root system.

> 

> 

>   

>>  

>> Many soil scientists insist an ancient Amerindian agrarian society will

>>     

> soon

>   

>> make a huge impact on the modern world. They say once the intricacies and

>> formulation of the society's "terra preta" (dark earth) is unlocked, the

>> benefits will help stop environmental degradation and bring fertility to

>> depleted soils. Developing and developed nations will benefit.

>>   

>>     

> 

>  Milpa and Terra Preta were NOT "systems designed to prevent 

> environmental degradation... they were systems designed to provide a 

> supply of wholesome food on a regular and dependable basis. Certainly, 

> obvious signs of "environmental degradation" would be dealt with, and 

> the one concern I could see that they would have is loss of soil through 

> erosion. Flat pottery shards would absorb the energy of falling rain, 

> and reduce soil erosion problems.

>   

>> Orellana

>> 

>> 

>> The story goes that in 1542, while exploring the Amazon Basin near

Ecuador

>> in search of El Dorado, Spanish conquistador Francisco de Orellana began

>> checking the area around one of the Amazon's largest rivers, the Rio

>>     

> Negro.

>   

>> While he never found the legendary City of Gold, upon his return to

Spain,

>> Orellana reported the jungle area held an ancient civilization - a

farming

>> people, many villages and even massive, walled cities.

>> 

>> 

>> Later explorers and missionaries were unable to confirm Orellana's

>>     

> reports.

>   

>> They said the cities weren't there and only hunter-gatherer tribes roamed

>>     

> the

>   

>> jungles. Orellana's claims were dismissed as myth.

>> 

>> 

>> Scientists who later considered Orellana's claims agreed with the

negative

>> assessments. The key problem, they said, was large societies need much

>>     

> food,

>   

>> something Amazonia's poor soils are simply incapable of producing. And

>>     

> without

>   

>> agriculture, large groups of people are unable to escape a nomadic

>>     

> existence,

>   

>> much less build cities.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Milpa could very well progress to Terra Preta, and with the sanitation 

> requirements for larger communities, there could very well have been a 

> food system that evolved to support it. A classic symbiotic relationship.

>   

>> Dark earth

>> 

>> 

>> More recently, though, Orellana's supposed myths have evolved into

>>     

> distinct

>   

>> possibilities. The key part of the puzzle has to do with terra preta.

>> It turns out that vast patches of the mysterious, richly fertile,

man-made

>> soil can be found throughout Amazonia. Through plot work, researchers

>>     

> claim

>   

>> terra preta can increase yields 350 percent over adjacent,

>>     

> nutrient-leached

>   

>> soils.

>>   

>>     

> 

> There is absolutely no mystery or miraculous occurence here... plants 

> grow well in nutrient rich soil and they grow poorly in nutrient poor 

> soil. With all the burning and vegetation, it would be natural for some 

> of the Milpa  Farmers to have noticed that  black soil seemed to last 

> longer before yields fell off to the point that a fallow period was 

> necessary. These Farmers were primitive, but they weren't stupid.

>   

>> Many well-respected researchers now say terra preta, most of it still

>>     

> hidden

>   

>> under jungle canopy, could have sustained large, agronomic societies

>>     

> throughout Brazil and neighboring countries.

>   

>>   

>>     

> 

> The "well respected researchers" don't deserve much respect, if all they 

> can say about Terra Preta is that

> "... it could have  sustained large agronomic societies...". They would 

> deserve much more respect if they provided more insight into Terra 

> Preta. :-) The above statement may have some profound content...

> "... terra preta, most of it hidden under Jungle canopy..."  Is it 

> perhaps possible that terra preta is simply the natural jungle soil?

>   

>> Amazing properties

>> 

>> 

>> The properties of terra preta are amazing. Even thousands of years after

>> creation, the soil remains fertile without need for any added fertilizer.

>>     

> 

> This is a stretch. A very big stretch. It goes against all known 

> "Agricultural Paradigms". Mother Nature is very strict with her rule 

> "You never get something for nothing." The above statement would only be 

> true if a fertile, nutrient laden soil was not used for growing, or if 

> nothing was removed from the site as crops, or through leaching, or as 

> food for soil organisms, or as an oxidation product...

>   

>>  For

>> those living in Amazonia, terra preta is increasingly sought out as a

>> commodity. Truckloads of the dark earth are often carted off and sold

like

>> potting soil.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Certainly, there are people who make their living all over the world 

> bringing in topsoil, compost, and manure to areas where the soil is 

> deficient in organic matter and nutrients.

>   

>> Chock-full of charcoal, the soil is often several meters deep. It holds

>> nutrients extremely well and seems to contain a microbial mix especially

>>     

> suited

>   

>> to agriculture.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Certainly, this would work. Note, however, that black soil found in a 

> wet depression could very well have been formed naturally, without the 

> presence of man-made charcoal. The soils are referred to a "Black 

> Carbon" soils, and "black carbon" can occur naturally through 

> decomposition of organic matter in anaerobic conditions.

>   

>> Thus far, despite great effort, scientists have been unable to duplicate

>> production of the soil. If researchers can ever uncover the Amerindians'

>>     

> terra

>   

>> preta cocktail recipe, it will help stop the environmentally devastating

>> practice of slash-and-burn agriculture in the Amazon jungle. Terra

preta's

>> benefits will also be exported across the globe.

>>   

>>     

> 

> The above passage reads well, but it doesn't say much about the caliber 

> of scientific effort being directed at figuring out how to "reverse 

> engineer" Terra Preta!! :-)

>   

>> However, even without unlocking all of the soil's secrets, things learned

>>     

> in

>   

>> the study of it are already being brought to row-crop fields.

>> Among researchers studying terra preta is Johannes Lehmann, a soil

>>     

> fertilitymanagement expert and soil biogeochemistry professor at Cornell

> University.Lehmann, who recently spoke with Delta Farm Press, says things

> learnedfrom terra preta will help farmers with agricultural run-off,

> sustainedfertility and input costs. Among his comments:

>   

>> On how Lehmann came to terra preta research.

>> 

>> 

>> "I spent three years living and working in degraded Amazonia field sites.

>> Inevitably, if you work in the central Amazon, you come across terra

>>     

> preta.

>   

>> "The visual impact of these soils is amazing. Usually, the soils there

are

>> yellow-whitish colored with very little humus. But the terra preta is

>>     

> often 1

>   

>> or 2 meters deep with rich, dark color. It's unmistakable. We know terra

>>     

> preta

>   

>> are preferentially cropped."

>> 

>> 

>> On the various properties of terra preta and its modes of action.

>> 

>> 

>> "There are a few factors that contribute to this fertility - sustainable

>>     

> fertility.

>   

>> Remember, these are soils that were created 1,000 to 5,000 years ago and

>>     

> were

>   

>> abandoned hundreds or thousands of years ago. Yet, over all those

hundreds

>>     

> of

>   

>> years, the soils retain their high fertility in an environment with high

>> decomposition, humidity and temperatures. In this environment, according

>>     

> to

>   

>> text books, this soil shouldn't exist.

>> 

>> 

>> "That alone is fascinating for us.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Amazonian Jungles have been in existence for much longer than the 

> presence of Man in Amazonia. They are a natural phenomenon. They work as 

> a result of the layer of humus on the surface of the jungle floor that 

> captures available nutrients and releases them to jungle vegetation. An 

> abandoned Terra Preta plot could be expected to remain fertile for a 

> very long time, PROVIDING THAT no crops were removed from the site.

>   

>> "Among the most important properties are high nutrient concentrations

>> (especially for calcium and phosphorus). Most likely, this is linked to a

>> unique utilization of agricultural and fishery waste products.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Certainly, one would expect higher levels of soil nutrition in the 

> vicinity of human habitation, where they had a nightsoil and food waste 

> resource that was at the same time, a disposal problem and a tremendous 

> agricultural resource.

>   

>> "We believe that fish residues are an important portion of the high

>> phosphorus concentrations. Phosphorus is really the number one limiting

>> nutrient in the central Amazon.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Near River/Lake systems, natural fish could provide a good source of 

> protein, and fish bones for fertilizer. Pond Culture may have been 

> employed further away from rivers and lakes. Human and animal manures 

> resulting from "new phosphorous" being brought into the area as a result 

> of the people "importing" foods from outside the community would also 

> result in an "above average phos level.

>   

>> "Another interesting aspect of terra preta's high fertility is the char

>> (charcoal) content of the soil. This was deliberately put into the soil

by

>>     

> the

>   

>> Indians and doesn't only create a higher organic matter - and therefore

>>     

> higher

>   

>> fertility through better nutrient-retention capacity - but this special

>>     

> type of

>   

>> carbon is more efficient in creating these properties.

>> 

>> 

>> "You can have the same amount of carbon in terra preta and adjacent soils

>> and the infertile soil won't change. Terra preta's abilities don't just

>>     

> rely on

>   

>> more carbon, but the fact that its char and humus is somehow more

>>     

> efficient in

>   

>> creating beneficial properties. That's the truly unique aspect."

>>   

>>     

> 

> This is very interesting. He might be differentiating between "Black 

> Carbon Soils" that contain "pyrocarbon" and those that only contain 

> "natural black carbon." It is also possible that on the "poor" Black 

> Carbon Soil plots, the Cation Exchange Sites on the charcoal and natural 

> black carbon may be occupied by cations that were not beneficial to the 

> plants, and thus unable to hold the nutrients that were the "bottleneck 

> to growth."

>   

>> Having lived in the Amazon and studied it, how much terra preta does

>> Lehmann believe there is?

>> 

>> 

>> "There are no precise numbers of how much terra preta there is (in

>> Amazonia). No one has done any large-scale investigation of that. It's

>>     

> very

>   

>> difficult to find out in the Amazon's jungle environment. Suitable

>> remote-sensing techniques haven't yet been used.

>> 

>> 

>> "So (the 10 percent) estimates sometimes cited are crude extrapolations

>>     

> from

>   

>> the few areas we're familiar with. But we know that in familiar areas

>>     

> there are

>   

>> huge patches of terra preta. These are hundreds of hectares large. When

>>     

> there

>   

>> have been maps produced of areas containing terra preta - say an area

>>     

> around a

>   

>> stream - patches are everywhere.

>> 

>> 

>> "It is also true that terra preta is widespread. Almost anywhere in the

>> central Amazon, you can step out of the car and ask a local 'Is there any

>>     

> terra

>   

>> preta around?' and they'll show you. It's everywhere."

>>   

>>     

> 

> Effort should be made to determine if these Black Carbon Soils were the 

> initial result of natural black carbon formation, and if the 

> Anthropogenic contribution of charcoal to Black Carbon Soils was an 

> incidental result of working a natural black carbon soil.

>   

>> What were the Indians growing? Tree crops? Row crops?

>> 

>> 

>> "There has been some pollen analysis. It suggests manioc and maize were

>> being grown 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. In the pollen bank, these crops

>>     

> didn't

>   

>> pop up sporadically but in large numbers.

>> 

>> 

>> "But all kinds of crops were grown by the Indians. Palm trees,

>> under-story fruit trees, Brazil nut trees - all were very important."

>> 

>> 

>> On the differences between slash-and-burn and slash-and-char agriculture.

>> 

>> 

>> "We have very good indications that the Amerindian populations couldn't

>>     

> have

>   

>> practiced slash-and-burn and created these soils.

>>   

>>     

> 

> This statement should be clarified. There is indeed very good evidence 

> that the Mayans in the Yucatan have indeed been practising "slash and 

> burn" agriculture on a sustainable basis for thousands of years. Milpa 

> is "slash and burn" on a patchwork basis.

>   

>> "It's also highly unlikely that a population relying on stone axes would

>> have practiced slash-and-burn anyway. The normal soils are so poor that

>>     

> with a

>   

>> single slash-and-burn event, you can only crop without fertilizer for two

>>     

> years

>   

>> at most. Then the soil has to be left fallow again.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Yes, that is what the Mayans found also. This is where the addition of 

> Humanure could have led to sustained "single site tropical agriculture." 

> Additional nutrients would give immediate feedback to the Farmer, and 

> would encourage him to do it again next season"

>   

>> "Primary forest trees have a diameter of 2 or 3 meters. If all you had

was

>>     

> a

>   

>> stone ax in your hand, you'd find a different way to deal with

agriculture

>>     

> than

>   

>> felling these huge trees every two years.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Huge trees take a long time to grow, especially in nutrient poor soils. 

> The cycle time of cropping a Milpa Site is about 7 to 20 years; 

> replacement trees would be nowhere as large as 2 to 3 meters in 

> diameter. Note that such large trees can be easily taken down by 

> primitive technology.... simply chop or burn the anchor roots and wait 

> for the first good windstorm. When the tree fell, it could be disposed 

> of by burning. These tree stems and branches could have been a 

> significant source of charcoal for the site.

>   

>> "The difference between (the two systems) is the slash-and-char wouldn't

>> burn in an open fire. Charcoal would be produced under partial exclusion

>>     

> of

>   

>> oxygen. We envision that happening by natives covering up piled up logs

>>     

> with

>   

>> dirt and straw. These charcoal-making systems are still being used around

>>     

> the

>   

>> world."

>>   

>>     

> 

> In the photo referenced above, there is clear evidence of charcoal 

> having been produced, and there is no evidence of effort been expended 

> to prevent total burning of the wood.

>   

>> How close are researchers to duplicating terra preta?

>> 

>> 

>> "We're working intensively. We don't need to take any terra preta

>>     

> anywhere.

>   

>> What we want to do is become knowledgeable about how terra preta was

>>     

> created

>   

>> and then create it elsewhere with local resources.

>> 

>> 

>> "Research on this is ongoing in Columbia, in Kenya. I have research

>> colleagues in Japan and Indonesia also working on this. At the moment,

>>     

> there is

>   

>> a lot of excitement but there's a lot of work to do."

>>   

>>     

> 

> It would indeed be interesting to know the avenues being pursued by the 

> various researchers.

>   

>> How terra preta could help industrialized countries.

>> 

>> 

>> "We envision systems based on some of the principles of terra preta. And

>> this isn't just for tropical agriculture. This could be very important

for

>>     

> U.S.

>   

>> agriculture.

>> 

>> 

>> "Terra Preta could mean a reduction in environmental pollution. What

works

>> as a retaining mechanism in Amazonia could work in the United States

where

>> there are concerns of phosphates and nitrates entering groundwater and

>>     

> streams.

>   

>> We have only begun to realize the potential of how this could reduce

>>     

> pollution

>   

>> in industrialized countries.

>>   

>>     

> 

> "Pollution in industrial Countries" was not a concern of the Amazonians. 

> Having a fertile soil and a secure food supply was a concern. 

> Segregating Municipal Sewage from toxic Industrial Waste should allow 

> safer and more widespread application of Municipal Sewage into 

> agricultural systems, reducing such sewage pollution

>   

>> "Luckily the principles of creating bio-char soils will be very similar

no

>> matter what area of the world you're in. Results obtained in Brazil will

>>     

> be

>   

>> pertinent for the United States.

>>   

>>     

> 

> One should be careful here. There are many very fertile "Black Soils" 

> throughout the world that have "Natural Black Carbon", and where there 

> is no "bio-char" that was made by a pyro process.

>   

>> "In terms of widespread adoption, it's still some way away. There are

>>     

> still

>   

>> knowledge gaps. For instance, we know there are important differences in

>>     

> the

>   

>> effects of bio-char on soil fertility depending on what material you use

>>     

> and

>   

>> what temperature and under what conditions the char is produced. That's

>> something we should be able to resolve within a year or two. Once that's

>>     

> done,

>   

>> we can take the systems to Extension Services around the world and make

>>     

> larger

>   

>> scale, on-farm research plots.

>>   

>>     

> 

> Fertilizer additions seem to be an important part of the research work. 

> Little is said about the importance of fertilizers and nutrients, the 

> emphasis is primarily on the "bio-char", with little apparent 

> recognition of the importance of "natural black carbon" in the soils.

> 

> Best wishes,

> 

> Kevin

> 

> 

> 

>   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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