[Terrapreta] Carbon tax

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Jim,

Why do you associate "carbon trading"  with "carbon credits" as US government interference?  The Kyoto Protocol and the IPCC are under UN auspices.  When did the government of the US control the UN?  We do not even pay our dues, let alone dictate UN policy.  The United Nations is not a government that can or does put a gun to the heads of anyone, do they?

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jim Joyner<mailto:jimstoy at dtccom.net> 
  To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 9:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Carbon tax


  Greg,

  All I said was that the US gov't and the various state governments have denied and continue to deny, for what ever purpose, equity before the law (specifically, by making it illegal to bring class action suits with regard to the environment and, before that, to deny access to the courts on matters of simple environmental changes) and is very much at the heart of the problems we have. As a people we have very little recourse except through a politicized EPA. 

  My concern is not so much that we have lost something dear (because I have not expectations of it being returned) but that it is naive to think this same gov't is going to somehow start remedying real problems with carbon taxes/carbon credits. It is more likely to just create another useless bureaucracy that will makes things worse still.

  I mean, look at the agricultural "program" in the US. We have a farm welfare system that subsidizes the the biggest, wealthiest and least productive (in the real sense) farmers in the US to produce, e.g., products that would be much cheaper and cleaner to purchase in other countries (e.g., ethanol). This in turn distorts not only the US market by driving food costs up, but the world market by robbing third world countries of the ability to compete and earn a right living. And all this from a gov't that is essentially bankrupt in a country that only produces 90% of what it consumes. 

  And we are suppose to think that creating yet another gov't boondoggle (carbon credits/taxes) is going to make things better? 

  Subsidize stupidity and you simply get more of it.

  Jim


  Greg and April wrote: 
    Ok, let's take this from another angle.

    Merriam - Webster defines Equity as " justice according to natural law or right; specifically : freedom from bias or favoritism " ok?

    So what happens when someone perceives justice as not being free from bias or favoritism?

    Do you see what I have been trying to say, about everyone has to perceive it ( a law or the courts ) as being equal, and how the only way to have 'Equity', is if everyone is willing to play by the same rules?

    In order for it to work, people have to believe it does - when they stop believing that there is equity, the process breaks down.

    Let me see if I can break it down a little more.

    A Law Enforcement Officer ( LEO ) arrests someone for a crime - there are no other witnesses, the only proof being the LEO's word.    
    In theory the person arrested is innocent, until proven guilty, and in theory in order for a guilty verdict, the law must show proof beyond shadow of a doubt.

    In reality when it comes to the word of someone being arrested against that of a LEO, the court tends to take sides with the LEO ( showing bias ), because there must be some reason that the LEO arrested them and ( for good or ill ) the LEO is believed to be already applied Equity - that is, doing their job with no bias or favoritism being involved.
        
    I'm really trying to show how bias unintentionally ( and sometimes intentionally ) occurs, and in doing so breaks the belief that courts & laws can be equitable ( as defined by M-W ).

    If people can't believe that laws and their custodians ( courts, law enforcement,  ect ) can be equitable, what is going to happen?

    Remember "fair" is a synonym of equitable, and dispassionate is synonym of fair - thus my talk about truth in it's most naked form needing to be free of many things, **including emotion**.
      
    Now does it start to make sense?


    Greg H.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Jim Joyner<mailto:jimstoy at dtccom.net> 
      To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 17:22
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Carbon tax


      Greg,

      I don't what you are talking about. What ever it is, it's not about equity in law. So let's let the list get back to TP.

      Jim


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