[Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Jim,

I've never seen the canopy of the rainforest in the Amazon.  I hope to someday soon.  We should ask Lou about it.  He lives there.  I have seen the canopy in temperate forests.  You cannot get enough sunlight to grow food crops under a forest canopy, I didn't think.  I might be wrong about this, but I think its true?  Nowadays, Brazilians do not leave trees standing and grow crops under them.  They slash-and-burn.  We seek to change that to slash-and-char.  No maybe Savanna might be a better terraform to begin "Terra Preta Nova" development in than in a rainforest.  That is certainly possible, don't you think?

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jim Joyner<mailto:jimstoy at dtccom.net> 
  To: terrapreta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 10:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture


  Hey Sean,

  Is it not possible that, on the forested "islands" or other forests, that Amazonians simply razed the forests by burning them completely down (don't have to deal with all that weight, moving, digging and burying), then added to the ashes char from crop waste feed stocks and maybe other OM from somewhere else (brought in lots of clay pots?), and then grew crops? For the raised areas that apparently were created by making mounds, there would have been no need to get the trees out of the way. They might have just brought in the char and other amendments.

  Much easier way to do it given a lack of available technology (chainsaws, bulldozers and the like). Just a thought.

  Jim

  Sean K. Barry wrote: 
    Hi Lou, Michael, et al,

    It would be interesting to fell a hardwood in the rainforest now, in a muddy area, with girdling and fire alone?  Just to clear an area for sunlight?  With no stone or metal tools?  Then light it a fire on the ground (how?, in parts?) and bury it?  But to what end would we do this?  To replicate what ancient Amazonians did?  If that is what they did?  For what reason would we do this?  Do you see my point?

    I do not think we want to consider harvesting old growth forests anyway now, to make charcoal to put into Terra Preta Nova soils.  No one hear thinks that is what needs be done and it's because the ancients did it that way.  I think the most logical source of biomass feedstock for pyrolysis/gasification into charcoal and usable energy is biomass that is likely to decay anyway.  Waste biomass (RFS, MSW, etc) and annual growth that falls and decays annually anyway from amongst both crops and other natural plants.  Biomass forms that grow higher tons of "fixed Carbon" per hectare (fC ha-1) of usable for pyrolysis feedstock are potential energy crops.  Charcoal application, fertilizer amendments, and sufficient watering into energy crop soils might have feedbacks that enhance both fC ha-1 yields and soil carbon sequestration rates.

    Forward looking models for development of Terra Preta Nova, which includes conversion of biomass to charcoal and harvesting usable bio-energy, need to consider all charcoal uses (agricultural benefits/food production enhancement, carbon sequestration, energy replacement, etc) and high charcoal production rates needed very soon for some of those uses.  Specifically, charcoal made for charcoal-in-soil carbon sequestration will requires perhaps several billion tons per year (Gt yr-1) of charcoal production within 10-25 years, I suppose?

    Agriculture interest seem as if they cannot figure out a way how to use it?, or where, or a reason to do making and using anything near several Gt yr-1 of charcoal right now.  No body has the "Terra Preta de Indio" recipe and the farmers are all saying that "... unless it is a proven, economically viable, agriculturally more productive, profitable benefit product for me to use, than I'll never use it or do it!"  SO, there is not a market for any Gt yr-1 of charcoal there, right?  Now what do we do?

    I think the answer to, "Now what do we do?", is to start making charcoal for Terra Preta Nova development now, anyway.  Do it like we're going to turn the whole world into a Terra Preta soiled landform, a planet sized TP garden!  We put charcoal into soil to work now on preventing further GW and GCC problems later and for the agricultural benefits that we will learn about along the way.  We will need to do something like this eventually, anyway, right?  We might as well get started.  It's going to take years, perhaps more than a century, to even begin to push back a little against where the climate is headed now.

    There is promise, too, that left untended, GCC could move into an era of positive feedbacks: Methyl hydrate releases (thawed CH4) and CO2 releases from the oceans (plant and animal die offs), Methane gas-CH4 releases from permafrost wetlands in the northern former Soviet Union, northern Canada and Alaska, increased N2O concentrations from continued industrial fertilizer use, adiabatic heating due to less snow/ice cover on land and oceans, etc.  These positive feedbacks will accelerate the warming and need to be avoided.

    I think we can make positive feedbacks work now to our advantage, too, in making "Terra Preta Nova", if we increase the scale of our operations.  Already using MSW and agricultural residues, that decay anyway, as feedstock for charcoal is a positive feedback in our desired direction (removing CO2 from the atmosphere).  It removes some CO2 now and prevents further CO2 cycling into and out of the atmosphere for many years into the future.  Improved soils under charcoal and bio-energy producing crops is another potential large feedback.  Overall increased plant growth and consequent CO2 uptake by plants planted in Terra Preta Nova soils, could also prove to be a large positive feedback towards and help in lowering the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere at a faster rate.

    Let's make lots of charcoal and put it into lots of soil now!

    Regards,

    SKB


      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: lou gold<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com> 
      To: Michael Bailes<mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com> 
      Cc: terra pretta group<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:11 PM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture


      I'm not sure of the relevance either but I want to assure you that nothing amazing is going on. The life and structure of a large tree is concentrated in the outer layers. Hollow trees are quite natural.


      On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Michael Bailes <michaelangelica at gmail.com<mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>> wrote:

        Australian Aboriginals encouraged the burning of large gums so that a hollow was made though the centre of the gum.
        Amazingly gums survive this traeatment and live on.
        The hollows became great nesting places for native animals and therefore convenient larders for fresh food for the aborigines.

        I am not sure how this is relevant
        But it would be interesting to set alight to a rainforest hardwood tree to see if it formed ash or charcoal.
        Michael B


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