[Terrapreta] Strong warning against "simple" charcoal kilns

[Robert Klein]

Sean

How much methane does a forest fire put into the atmosphere?

How much methane does the massive slash and burn conducted in Indonesia produce?

How do you prevent methane from igniting close to an ignition source so that it might escape and then leisurely act in the new role as a greenhouse gas?

regards

arclein


----- Original Message ----
From: MFH <mfh01 at bigpond.net.au>
To: Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>; Kurt Treutlein <rukurt at westnet.com.au>
Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:36:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Strong warning against "simple" charcoal kilns

 
Sean
 
Sorry if I’m being a little thick
about this, but if the methane has to pass through the fire zone at the base of
the inner drum, won’t it burn?
 
M
 
 

________________________________
 
From:Sean K. Barry [mailto:sean.barry at juno.com] 
Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 10:24
AM
To: 'Kurt Treutlein'; MFH
Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Strong
warning against "simple" charcoal kilns
 
Hi Max,
 
Try this?  When
carbonacious organic wastes (biomass?) are left to decay in open air, they
decompose into CO2.  When pushed underground into a landfill, some of the
carbon molecules in the biomass decompose into Methane-CH4, which is also under
the ground, and is often already being harvested.  In fact it is illegal
to allow Methane-CH4 emissions from landsfills.  It can be economical to
harvest the trapped Methane gas found in landfills.  There is quickly
growing industry in harvesting ""landfill" gas.  Fecal
wastes from animal feed lots is also are left mostly, to decay in open air,
producing both CO2 and CH4.  Anearobic Digester systems can harvest the
Methane from animal waste pools.
 
Now, the
"charcoal-in-a-barrel" kiln?  Well, when biomass if pyrolyzed in
open air (or limited amounts of air).  This pyrolysis reaction generates
"producer gas" (H2:~20~, CO:~20%, CO2:~10-15%, H2O:~5%,
Methane-CH4:~2-3%, and Nitrogen gas-N2:~40-45%)
 
Air is 19% Oxygen, 78%
Nitrogen, Argon is next, and some other trace gases (like CO2 @ 383 parts per
million).
 
The release of just
the 2-3% Methane-CH4 content does more damage to the atmosphere than is ALL of
the carbon were released as CO2.  This is because Methane-CH4 is a
long-lived and far more potent contributor to the green house warming
effect than is CO2 (23-62 times more potent, depending on how long of a time
frame you consider).  The production of large amounts of charcoal using
"charcoal-in-a-barrel' kilns (and the release of any substantial portion
of the Methane-CH4 from the process would undermine Terra Preta Nova in a
profound way.  Here we would be trying to mitigate climate and improve
growing conditions, but while we tried we shot ourselves in the foot and
advanced the speed of increase in the GHG warming effect.
 
This doesn't even
mention other pollutants possible from charcoal production in cheap simple
"charcoal-in-a-barrel" kilns.  These include particulates
(carciniogens) and other toxic , air borne compounds.  Who ever
"sits" sucking in smoke form a camp fire?  It also does not
mention that there is an enormous waste of usable energy, due to the
inefficiencies of this type of design.
 
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane
 
There are some who
will dispute this claim.  I know that there are more who would support
this.  If you must learn about charcoal in soil, then make some charcoal
by any means, if you cannot get it from someone who can make it right, but
advocating "millions" of these typoes of kilns is a bad idea. 
Advocate "millions" of "Clean Charcoal Kilns" instead.
 
Regards,
 
SKB
----- Original Message ----- 
From:MFH 
To:'Kurt Treutlein' 
Cc:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org 
Sent:Sunday, April 27, 2008 6:28 PM
Subject:Re: [Terrapreta] Strong warning against "simple"
charcoal kilns
 
I'm
struggling to understand why "millions" of back-yard simple kilns
producing char to be buried in gardens aren't better than not having any at
all. More particularly if they are consuming household scraps and garbage
that would otherwise find its way to landfill.

Sit on our hands and wait for big business to develop squillion dollar char
factories, or do something positive at a personal level?

Max H


-----Original Message-----
From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
[mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Treutlein
Sent: Monday, 28 April 2008 9:21 AM
Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Strong warning against "simple" charcoal
kilns

Hi folkes,

Hands up all those who have "Strongly warned" against Folkes simple
kiln 
concept, who are NOT working on developing a sophisticated highly 
efficient pyrolises system with the idea of marketing it to the world to 
make the gigatons of bio-char we will need to reverse GW.

Anybody???

Kurt

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