[Terrapreta] char & vascular systems

[lou gold]

Lloyd and others,

Is there a link where I can get a description of dynamotive's biochar
activities?

Thanks,

lou



On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Lloyd Helferty <lhelferty at sympatico.ca>
wrote:

>  Mark,
>
>   Yes, I think we likely will give it a try.  Dynamotive has been dumping
> tonnes of their char onto potato field in Ontario already -- and they have
> the Canadian "EcoLogo" certification, so obviously the Government (and the
> farmers involved) approve of it.  Now, whether an organic farmer would
> approve or not is another story.
>
>     Lloyd Helferty
>     Thornhill
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Mark Ludlow [mailto:mark at ludlow.com]
> *Sent:* June 13, 2008 2:30 AM
> *To:* 'Lloyd Helferty'; 'Philip Small'
> *Cc:* 'terra pretta group'; biochar-ontario at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: [Terrapreta] char & vascular systems
>
>  Hi Lloyd,
>
>
>
> Why not test  the char at the test-pot level and see what the uptake in
> your test plants is. GC-Mass-Spec determinations typically measures
> elemental occurrences; heretical as it may sound, might it not be wise to
> measure the effect on the target produce?
>
>
>
> At some point in the not-so-distant-future these metals will be more evenly
> distributed in Earth's productive soils. Well water in some South Asian
> countries, used for watering, would help to ensure this, for example. But
> soil components—clays, for instance—may in some instances chelate and make
> these metals unavailable.
>
>
>
> One thing seems certain: the occurrence of objectionable metals is unlikely
> to trend downward anytime soon.
>
>
>
> Biochar itself is often associated with polycyclic hydrocarbons, if made
> according to standard formulae offered here and elsewhere? Is this stuff
> healthy? If so, we should bottle it and sell it to pay for the TP revival!
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org [mailto:
> terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Lloyd Helferty
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:08 PM
> *To:* 'Philip Small'
> *Cc:* 'terra pretta group'; biochar-ontario at googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] char & vascular systems
>
>
>
> My question to the list was to ask whether the arsenic that the Dynamotive
> char *might *contain could leach out of the char or might stay locked in
> the carbon matrix of the char.  My hope was that someone would confirm that
> the *possibly high* Dynamotive char arsenic levels would *not* make it
> unsuitable for organic agriculture.  Although you have not given me any
> evidence showing that the levels in the Dynamotive char are in fact safe for
> use in soil, I agree that we can still go ahead and try the Dynamotive char
> anyway -- for many reasons, not the least of which is that the Dynamotive
> pilot plant is located in West Lorne, Ontario, which is only about 160km
> (~100mi) from where the first trials might be done.
>
> I'm confident that we will likely be contacting someone at Dynamotive in
> the near future and inquire about purchasing of some of their biochar for
> some trials here in the province.
>
>
>
> As an aside, I also noted from the article that tests in Ontario have shown
> natural arsenic concentrations as follows: "rural arsenic concentrations
> ranged from 0.6 to 30 ìg/gm (which I believe translates to 0.6 - *30ppm*)
> with a mean of 4.0, median of 3.0 and a 90th percentile of 7.6 ìg/gm. New
> urban arsenic concentrations ranged from 0.6 to 27 ìg/gm with a mean of 3.6,
> median of 2.9 and a 90th percentile of 6.1 ìg/gm. Old urban arsenic
> concentrations ranged from 0.4 to *79 ìg/gm* with a mean of 4.9, median of
> 3.5 and a 90th percentile of 9.2 ìg/gm."
>
> This means the concentrations can be quite a bit higher than the "0.010
> milligrams per litre" (10ppm) figure quoted below, although even the 90thpercentile found
> in the "Old urban" areas is slightly below this level (@ 9.2 ìg/gm)
>
>
>
>     Lloyd Helferty
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* e.philip.small at gmail.com [mailto:e.philip.small at gmail.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Philip Small
> *Sent:* June 9, 2008 2:25 PM
> *To:* Lloyd Helferty
> *Cc:* terra pretta group
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] char & vascular systems
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Lloyd Helferty <lhelferty at sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
> I've looked up Health Canada's guidelines for Canadian Drinking Water
> Quality, and they have established levels of Arsenic at 0.010 milligrams per
> litre (kg), based on lifetime exposure to arsenic from drinking water, which
> is 1000X more stringent than the Dynamotive char, so I'm not certain that
> the water flowing through this biochar would be drinkable nor whether any
> veggies that might grow in the medium could be certified organic.
>
> We should all be concerned about arsenic in soil<http://www.aehs.com/conferences/international/glance/tuesday/arsenic.htm>because it is a carcinogen even at the natural background levels at which
> arsenic occurs. The regulatory cleanup standard for arsenic contaminated
> soil can calculate to between 0.1 and 0.5 ppm (varies with the regional
> calculation).  Yet it is very likely that everyone reading this lives in an
> area with natural soil arsenic levels above this standard. That doesn't mean
> that the veggies grown in your garden soil can't meet organic standards.
> That doesn't mean the groundwater percolating through your garden soil will
> fail Canada's arsenic standard for drinking water.
>
> I consider natural soil arsenic to be the most impossibly problematic
> "contaminant" that environmental regulators are required to make sense of.
> The Dynamotive charcoal arsenic levels look natural to me.  I respectfully
> suggest we cut Dynamotive char some slack on the arsenic.
>
>
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