[Terrapreta] Fwd: torrefied wood or charcoal?

Gerald Van Koeverden vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca
Sun Mar 2 07:34:47 CST 2008


They already had accelerants in the original.  Why would they add  
even more? Why wouldn't they want to reproduce a typical slow-burning  
fire, like that of pure charcoal?

It is probably the combustion products of those added accelerants  
which have given charcoal briquette ash such a bad name for use as a  
soil amendment, because typically ash is a good fertilizer.  Every  
second recipe for making compost specifically recommends the  
avoidance of using charcoal briquette ash.

Which leaves us with a new question:  how would the ashes from  
Kingsford's new charcoal behave as a soil amendment?

gerald


On 2-Mar-08, at 8:01 AM, Kevin Chisholm wrote:

> Dear Gerrit
>
> Thje differences might be due to accelerants added for ease of  
> starting, rather than the presence or absence of torrified material.
>
> Kevin
>
> Gerald Van Koeverden wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> It would be interesting to do a little detective work on this one.
>>
>> Here's some amateur experimental results comparing the old  
>> Kingsford briquettes with the newest version:
>>
>> http://www.nakedwhiz.com/productreviews/kvsk/oldkingsfordnew-2.htm
>>
>> You'll see that their graphed results show that the new stuff  
>> burns much hotter and burns out significantly quicker than the old  
>> - defining characteristics of the difference between charcoal and  
>> torrefied wood...
>>
>> Gerrit
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1-Mar-08, at 5:01 PM, Tom Miles wrote:
>>
>>> I think you’re reading too much into a couple of well  
>>> intentioned , not very precise, descriptions. I have seen nothing  
>>> in the history of the Ford-Kingsford operation to suggest that  
>>> they are or were making anything like terrified wood.
>>>  Ford’s briquette was  actually the char byproduct of a wood  
>>> distillation plant to make methanol using waste from the mill he  
>>> built to make wooden car parts. He closed the wood distillation  
>>> when synthetic methanol from coal became available from Germany  
>>> in about 1935.   See Bob Massengale,  Black Gold, A History of  
>>> charcoal in Missouri
>>> http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail~bookid~37830.aspx  
>>> <http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail%7Ebookid% 
>>> 7E37830.aspx>
>>>  Barbecue briquettes have always contained a collection of things  
>>> including ashes from biomass boilers, sometimes coal char etc.
>>>  Tom Miles
>>>   *From:* terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org  
>>> <mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org> [mailto:terrapreta- 
>>> bounces at bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Gerald Van Koeverden
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:24 AM
>>> *To:* Terra Preta
>>> *Subject:* [Terrapreta] Fwd: torrefied wood or charcoal?
>>>
>>>
>>>  You're perfectily right to be cautious.  All the literature  
>>> discourages the use of briquette charcoal ashes in gardening.   
>>> They are toxic to plants.
>>>  What interested me in the article is the claim that the wood in  
>>> Kingsford briquettes isn't even charcoal - but rather a pre- 
>>> charcoal stage called torrefied wood.  By stopping carbonization  
>>> at this stage - before it goes exothermic - they save more of the  
>>> wood's energy than through a full carbonization into pure  
>>> charcoal, maximizing their returns.   Torrefied wood has 90% of  
>>> the original energy in the raw wood as compared to 50 or 60% in  
>>> charcoal.
>>>   On 1-Mar-08, at 9:50 AM, Dan Culbertson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know if the article below is "true" but it is a bit  
>>> incorrect or incomplete with respect to charcoal briquettes.   
>>> They contain coal as well as wood char and binders.  Maybe not  
>>> the Kingsford brand but some certainly do.  See  http:// 
>>> www.enotes.com/how-products-encyclopedia/charcoal-briquette .   
>>> Makes them not a very good thing to use in the soil for terra  
>>> preta I would think.  I've avoided using anything but natural  
>>> charcoal in soil mixes and I leave the cheaper briquettes (and  
>>> their coal ashes) to uses other than soil amendment.  I'd be  
>>> interested to know if that is overly cautious... but coal doesn't  
>>> seem like a very good thing to put into soil.
>>>  Dan
>>>
>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>     *From:* Gerald Van Koeverden <mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>
>>>     *To:* Terra Preta <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>>>     *Sent:* Saturday, March 01, 2008 08:10
>>>     *Subject:* [Terrapreta] torrefied wood or charcoal?
>>>
>>>     *true or false?*
>>>
>>>
>>>     *Charcoal*
>>>
>>>     by: /E. G. Kingsford/
>>>
>>>
>>>     Charcoal is simply carefully cooked wood.
>>>
>>>     Mankind figured out this one many centuries ago. The
>>>     heat-producing part of fuel is carbon. Increase the relative
>>>     amount of carbon in your cooker, and you can roast that  
>>> haunch of
>>>     mountain goat, or yak fillet, and get out of the kitchen in half
>>>     the time. Wood is about 50% carbon (coal is 90). You can up your
>>>     wood-based carbon by reducing the wood’s hydrogen and oxygen
>>>     content. It’s still done pretty much the way it was started
>>>     centuries ago. Logs are baked slowly at very high  
>>> temperatures in
>>>     a low-oxygen oven. This drives off most of the liquids and  
>>> leaves
>>>     the carbon.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Unlike charcoal, the irritating, ubiquitous charcoal  
>>> briquette is
>>>     made from roasted wood scrap, quick-lighting chemicals, and
>>>     binders compressed into a little cake. It has less snob appeal
>>>     than true charcoal but is a thoroughly American heritage. The
>>>     briquette was invented in the 1920s for Henry Ford, as an auto
>>>     assembly line spinoff. Henry Ford pondered the problem of how to
>>>     squeeze a buck from the scraps of steering wheel and dashboard
>>>     wood that were ordinarily thrown away. As always, his crack  
>>> staff
>>>     answered with the solution, “Cook it, smash it into a lump, and
>>>     give it a fancy name.” For years thereafter you could only buy
>>>     charcoal briquettes only at your local Ford dealerships. Then,
>>>     eventually the operation became so large it was turned over to a
>>>     Ford relative, E.G. Kingsford, and the rest is hamburger.
>>>
>>>          http://www.dountoothers...org/charcoal.html
>>>     <http://www.dountoothers.org/charcoal.html>
>>>
>>>
>>
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