[Terrapreta] What is so bad about global warming?

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear Sean

Sean K. Barry wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>  
> Those are tough questions.  I don't have the answers to them.  There 
> is a London and a Chicago "Carbon Trading Market", so I have heard.  
> I've heard prices anywhere form $5 to $10 per ton of carbon.  I see 
> Terra Preta as the only way we can reduce atmospheric carbon levels.

The key question is: "What business do you want to be in?"

If you want to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, then that is one thing, 
but if you want grow things, than that is a different matter.

> I see this for two main reasons:
>  
> 1) Plants that grow every year are doing the job of taking CO2 out of 
> the atmosphere every year.  We just need to take the step of charring 
> up a lot of that biomass (so that is doesn't decay and remit the 
> stored carbon back into the atmosphere) and then put it into the soil 
> for long term sequestration.  Every amount we do can offset fossil 
> carbon emissions.

If your objective is to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, then OK. If my 
objective is to grow things more efficiently, with greater yields, and 
at lower cost, fossil carbon emissions are a secondary consideration.
>  
> 2) Biomass carbon is distributed everywhere plants grow and people 
> live (eating plants as food).  Charring biomass can be clean and 
> simple.  Burying it in the ground is simple.  There are lots of people 
> in the world who could benefit immediately from putting 
> charcoal-in-soil if it paid them "carbon credits" to do so and lots 
> who could still benefit anyway if it did not.

Many people can benefit by employing charcoal in agriculture, regardless 
of a Carbon Credit. Burying charcoal, as for example, in a coal mine, is 
simply the equivalent to "un-mining" coal. Such a move would be a 
guaranteed loser to the environment and is inherently of no benefit. 
Indeed, it is inherently a losing proposition.
> There are lots of people scattered out in many diverse places in the 
> world.  There is lots of work to be done to solve GCC and GW.

Certainly, there is a clot of work that could be done. However, this 
gets back to the question of "What business do we want to be in?"
> The economics of doing that work may be better in some places than it 
> is in others (like in the an African desert versus downtown Manhattan).
>  
> Maybe you could find some answers to your questions and discuss what 
> you find with us.

I'm looking, but only at the implications to growing things. Any benefit 
to global warming or global cooling is simply a bonus. Carbon credits 
for charcoal additions to the soil would be helpful, if they helped make 
the agricultural economics more favourable. However, I don't think this 
approach fits with your agenda or business thrust, in that I am 
generally  indifferent to the climate aspects of TP.

Best wishes,

Kevin
>  
> Regards,
>  
> SKB
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Kevin Chisholm <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
>     *To:* Sean K. Barry <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
>     *Cc:* Dan Culbertson <mailto:danculb at netcommander.com> ; Larry
>     Williams <mailto:lwilliams at nas.com> ; Toch Susan
>     <mailto:anaturalresource at gmail.com> ; Pilarski Michael
>     <mailto:friendsofthetrees at yahoo.com> ; Miles Tom
>     <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Baur Hans
>     <mailto:hans at riseup.net>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:58 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] What is so bad about global warming?
>
>     Dear Sean
>
>     Has anyone on the List actually tried to buy and to sell Carbon
>     Credits?
>     What would be the "Buy" and the "Sell" prices?
>
>     Does anyone know where the present Carbon Credits are coming from?
>
>     Do the Carbon Credits purchased balance with the Carbon Credits sold?
>
>     Is it presently possible to make money producing char for Terra Preta
>
>     Has the agricultural benefit of Terra Preta been quantified, and
>     reduced
>     to dollar terms?
>
>     Are there any Farmers anywhere in the World actually buying char
>     to make
>     Terra Preta because of a perceived commercial benefit? If not,
>     what is
>     the "Loss per tonne of carbon that would have to be offset" before it
>     would be commercially advantageous for the Farmer to make Terra Preta?
>
>     Best wishes,
>
>     Kevin
>
>     Sean K. Barry wrote:
>     > Hi Dan, Larry, Others,
>     > 
>     > That is a thought provoking question, Dan.  It sounds kind of like
>     > those hyped History Channel segments, "After We're Gone" or the
>     > "Aftermath".  You are right I think about the atmospheric carbon
>     > levels being wrong for our species and right for other species. 
>     One
>     > could wonder to what species thrive in atmospheric carbon levels on
>     > Venus now, too.
>     > 
>     > The point is, and you said it, "Not that I personally want to
>     become
>     > extinct don't-ya-know", but who does?  Do you even want the
>     quality of
>     > your life to degrade?  Do you have any children?  What are you
>     going
>     > to do to make your life better in the face of current GCC for
>     yourself
>     > and/or them in the future?  That's the point.  "Carpe Diem" is all
>     > that we can do for anything we do, isn't it?  Global Climate
>     Change in
>     > the near term (our lifetimes) isn't about human extinction now
>     or soon
>     > nearly as much as it is about the human strife beginning now of the
>     > path to human extinction.
>     > 
>     > Larry, I hear you ...
>     > "High tech toys cannot produce enough charcoal to effectively lower
>     > the atmosphere's CO2 percentages. They are to expensive to
>     produce the
>     > quantity that is needed. Would you call it a poor return on
>     investment
>     > or the dollar to char deal? "
>     > 
>     > I can't adopt that defeatist attitude.  I think it's doable.  We
>     can
>     > produce enough charcoal and lower CO2 emissions enough to strike a
>     > balance.  I think it is a monumental worldwide undetaking to do it,
>     > too.  So?  When do we get started, I say.
>     > 
>     > Regards,
>     > 
>     > SKB
>     > 
>     > 
>
>
>