[Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Greg,

I'm not surprised.  Danny Day and Michael Antal play it pretty close.  They are are both heavily involved commercial ventures with licensee contracts now.  Their IP and their time is probably somewhat "owned" by licensees, I suspect.

Methanol and Dimethylether (DME) are other possible liquid fuel replacements for gasoline, which can both be made from biomass.  I am not sure what refining there would be required to get automobile/farm equipment usable "liquid fuels" from wood vinegar.  I know that synthetic diesel, methanol, and other alcohols can be made using a catalyst assisted process called Fischer-Tropsch to convert "Synthesis gas" into "liquid fuels".  
Which "liquid fuels" often depends on the catalyst, and the proportions of reactant sub-gases (CO, H2, CO2, CH4, O2, H2O, etc) in the syngas.
It may not depend so much on the biomass feedstock itself, but the proportion of CO vs CO2 and H2 in the syngas may need to be adjusted to make the catalyst work.  CO vs CO2 and H2 is changeable via an energy-intensive "water-shift" reaction.  This energy costs money or eats largely into the total energy harvested from the biomass.

I have read, too, that Methane-CH4 can "poison" the iron/cobalt catalyst that will make Methanol from syngas.  This is why "producer gas", which is richer in CH4 cannot be used to catalyze Methanol.  "Producer gas" also is to diluted with inert Nitrogen-N2 from the air.  This makes is unusable and/or in-efficient with gas to liquids catalysts.  "Synthesis gas" (syngas) has to be made from an "oxygen only blown" pyrolysis reaction.  The air contains 78% Nitrogen-N2, so it cannot be used as the oxidant.  Getting pure oxygen, by buying it or making it costs money and/or again eats into the total energy harvested from the biomass (in the forms of heat, gaseous & liquid fuels, and charcoal).

The point is, that to make liquid transport fuels usable in today's vehicles from biomass is really pretty complicated and requires close control on the chemistry involved, or losses due to inefficiency and its no longer economically sensible.  It IS DOABLE, but economies of scale for manufacture of the biomass based liquid fuels, along with the design of current types of heat engines do not lend themselves easily to biomass based "liquid fuels".  It is easier to make usable heat and to generate electricity.  Excess electrical generating capacity can be sold back to the electrical utility companies in many states under a program called "net-metering".  The advances in electrical cars and high capacity/fast charging/lightweight batteries will sooner be available than farm run Fischer-Tropsch processors, I think.

Regards,

SKB


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
  To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?


  I have tried to get information from Dr. Antal on his process, even before I became a member of the list ( same for Eprida ), but not even a single reply from either of them.


  There is a group out of Missouri, that is putting together a pilot plant, small enough to transport by semi truck, to take around next year or so and demonstrate to farmers in Kansas and other nearby states.    The plant is making char, and converting the VM to ethanol, and is from what I have been told self sustaining.    >From what I have been told, it is scaleable, but the lower limit for reasonable conversion is about the semi size demonstrator.    


  I wouldn't mind ethanol if that is all I can get, but, I would rather have butanol if I can get it, as it has higher energy value ( almost that of gasoline ), not corrosive, and hydrophobic as well - a combination that is hard to beat.    Another plus, is that higher alcohols are better suited for diesel engines ( at least in blends ).

  I'm not worried, about direct heating from the process, as there would be plenty of heat to recover just from the exhaust - and when added into specialized building techniques such as:

  http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=03.08.01&article=finch<http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=03.08.01&article=finch>

  and 

  http://paccs.fugadeideas.org/tom/index.shtml<http://paccs.fugadeideas.org/tom/index.shtml> 

  that makes for very efficient living systems, based on biomass.


  Greg H.


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
    To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
    Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 14:59
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?


    Hi Greg,

    Dr. Antal would know enough to answer most of your questions , I think.  His process can/does make activated charcoal, with little or no VM.  The reactor has to be run very hot to do this, like 900º C.  Activated charcoal has a very high surface area.  I don't know what this says about the actual pore struture though.  Probably lots of smaller pores.

    I think it is a very good idea to mix charcoal with compost or other bio-fertilizers, something to set the C:N ratio more towards 40:1 down to 25:1.  If less charcoal is applied onto a field more often and cultivated in with other to-be-composted biomass, this will do the same thing with less charcoal, I would think.

    I like the idea of getting charcoal, usable heat, and liquid transport fuels all entirely from biomass sources.  It should be recognized, though, that even biomass has a finite amount of chemical energy contained within it.  If you want all of this, then you need to have a pyrolysis process that makes the charcoal, allows you to recover and to use the heat directly, and then the fractional liquid distillates and or gaseous fuels will need to be refined and made directly into liquid transport fuels.  This last step of refining the liquids and/or gases to make automotive fuels is very difficult.  It can be done, but it requires expensive catalysts and the economies of a much larger scale.

    There is a plant in Iowa, Colorado, and California, Rentech, that makes synthetic diesel fuel from "synthesis gas" (Syngas: mostly, H2, CO, some CO2, very little CH4) that is reformed from coal.  Syngas can be made from biomass, also, by blowing pure oxygen (instead of air) through a pyrolysis reactor.  "Producer gas" is just like syngas that has been diluted with Nitrogen-N2 (it also has more CH4, like ~1-3% content).

    There are other possibilities, too.  For instance the heat and fuel gases or vaporized liquid VM can all be burned and used to produce heat and/or bring up steam to turn a turbine and produce electricity.  The fuel gases can run an internal combustion engine that turns a generator, too.
    Some cars can be made to run directly off the gases from a charcoal making retort (see "woodgas" cars at www.woodgas.com<http://www.woodgas.com/>).  But, it is hard on ICE and these engines do not last long unless the gas used for fuel is very clean.  It you had an electric car, then the electricity you produced could charge the batteries on your car.

    Regards,

    SKB


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