[Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?
Folke Günther
folke at holon.se
Sun Mar 30 13:24:29 CDT 2008
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Folke Günther
Kollegievägen 19
224 73 Lund, Sweden
home/office: +46 46 14 14 29
cell: 0709 710306 skype: folkegun
Homepage: http://www.holon.se/folke
blog: http://folkegunther.blogspot.com/
> So besides urine is there any other way to produce something like
> ammonia (natural) to enrich the charcoal ?
[FG:] In a more advanced plant, like the EPRIDA, it is a good idea to use
the H2 and carbon dioxide in thr pyrolysis gasses, join it with N2 fom the
air, and produce ammonium bicarbonate to enrich the char. But it is nothing
that can be done at home.
>
> If one was going to apply just urine to a field any ideas how many
> gallons to the acre? Or I should say how to equate a gallon of urine to
> a bag of fertilizer.
[FG:] As a rule of thumb, you can say that one day production of urine from
one person (roughly =1.4 litres) is enough to fertilize one sq. meter one
year.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Sun, 2008-03-30 at 06:30 -0400, teelws at jmu.edu wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Fulke Gunther is right on about the compost pile. Anytime you have an
> ammonia smell you have a problem. Adding "edible" carbon to get the C:N
> ratio above 25:1 is essential. Adding char does something else. In this
> case you have to have the ammonia in the form of ammonium ion, NH4+. It
> will attach to the negative charge on the surface of char pores and be
> immobilized until removed by a stronger chemical or electrical attraction.
> Aeration and proper moisture content are essential for this process. Too
> dry you have volatilization, too wet and leaching results.
> >
> > By the way, char carbon does not count in the C:N ratio you want because
> it is nearly biologically inactive. It provides a surface area for
> complex biological activity, but if made properly should be effectively
> inert, which is why it lasts in soil so long. A good compost ratio
> includes only the portion of carbon potentially edible by bacteria. The
> biggest advantage of adding char to compost (aside from the sequestration
> over the long term) is that it reduces leaching losses of nitrogen
> compounds, keeping nutrient available for plants for longer periods.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> > >Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:46:09 +0200
> > >From: Folke Günther <folke at holon.se>
> > >Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under pressurized conditions?
> > >To: "'Sean K. Barry'" <sean.barry at juno.com>,
> <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> > >
> > > I have been following the discussion for some days
> > > now, and now, I can't keep quiet any more.
> > >
> > > 1. If you get ammonia from your compost pile, you
> > > are managing it in the wrong way. You either has
> > > too little plant material vs. meat or
> > > nitrogen-rich material, too much water, or too
> > > bad aeration. All these problems can be
> > > alleviated wit the addition of charcoal.
> > > 2. Don' put urine on warm charcoal. You will loose a
> > > lot in the air.
> > > 3. On the other hand, if you have aces to urine,
> > > from a source-separating toilet, or from a
> > > stable, it is a god idea to add it to fresh
> > > carcoal. It will be absorbed to a large extent
> > > (I don't have numbers here, does anybody have
> > > numbers on how much urine could be absorbed in
> > > charcoal?) Anyhow, the smell from a jar of urine
> > > will fade considerably when charcoal is added.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Adding two system diagrams on the combination of
> > > different activities in a charring society If they
> > > are unintelligible, please contact me.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> > >
> > > Folke Günther
> > >
> > > Kollegievägen 19
> > >
> > > 224 73 Lund, Sweden
> > >
> > > home/office: +46 46 14 14 29
> > >
> > > cell: 0709 710306 skype: folkegun
> > >
> > > Homepage: http://www.holon.se/folke
> > > blog: http://folkegunther.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Från: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
> > > [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] För
> > > Sean K. Barry
> > > Skickat: den 29 mars 2008 22:40
> > > Till: Terra Preta; Jeff Davis
> > > Ämne: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under
> > > pressurized conditions?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Jeff,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This is an interesting idea, because of the free
> > > source of cool ammonia-NH3 gas from from off a
> > > compost pile. I wonder what the concentration of
> > > ammonia-NH3 in air is? It is entirely possible that
> > > ammonia-NH3 would be absorbed into charcoal, but
> > > maybe in the form of a solidified ammonia salt, like
> > > ammonium bicarbonate (NH4HCO3), rather than as a
> > > gas. I don't believe NH3 gas reactes with carbon-C
> > > atoms on the surface of the charcoal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Eprida had/has a product called ECOSS which has (I
> > > believe) ammonium bicarbonate deposited on the
> > > surface of the charcoal (like an M&M candy
> > > coating). Some of their early bags smelled like
> > > ammonia when first opened, I heard. I think making
> > > a fertilized with ammonia charcoal product would
> > > require some way to "fix" the NH3 molecules onto the
> > > charcoal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SKB
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > From: Jeff Davis
> > >
> > > To: Terra Preta
> > >
> > > Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:21 PM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char made made under
> > > pressurized conditions?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear All,
> > >
> > > I was thinking more on the lines of capturing the
> > > lost ammonia gas (etc)
> > > from the composting pile. If it would be possible
> > > to absorb this in the
> > > cooling period of the charcoal. I know it's a
> > > close to zero chance.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > > Either case, I still doubt that N2 as a
> > > reasonably inert gas will do
> > > > anything - either as a fertilizer or be absorbed
> > > into the char.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jeff Davis
> > >
> > > Some where 20 miles south of Lake Erie, USA
> > >
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> > >
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> > Wayne S. Teel
> > MSC 4102 ISAT
> > James Madison University
> > Harrisonburg, VA 22807
> > Tel: 540-568-2798
> > Fax: 540-568-2761
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