[Terrapreta] How to STOP using Fossil Carbon resources?!

[lou gold]

Hi Again,

Nope. The question about how to do it is not a question about your policy
prescriptions. It is a question about how you would mobilize the political
will to legislate and institute your preferred policies in the US and in
China? I am asking you the kind of question that a practical politician must
face -- how do you do it?

I know of one teacher called "catastrophe." I'm searching for a gentler way
and wonder if you know one?



On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com> wrote:

>  Hi Lou,
>
> Hmmmm ... I didn't answer your question?  I think the US should sign the
> Kyoto Protocol, play by its current rules, actually make the hard choices,
> do the correct actions, and begin to LEAD our world out of this quagmire
> that we pretty much lead the world into in the last 150 years.
>
> Politics of good will towards the others and genuine help with the
> pressing problems of all people in this world, rather than this stupid,
> offensive to the rest of world, and terrible "War on (Imagined) Terror"
> could engender greater cooperation from the rest of the world, I think.  The
> current Bush/Cheney administration is a scardy-cat, chicken-shit,
> war-mongering, nit-wit administration that has no capacity to do anything
> except prepare to line their pockets in the at the cost of blood and
> livelihoods of people here and around the world.  Be careful, if you think I
> don't hate the state US Politics?!
>
> I say NO WAY on replacing the only last progressive tax we have, the
> income tax, with a highly regressive carbon tax.
>
> Regards,
>
> SKB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* lou gold <lou.gold at gmail.com>
> *To:* Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
> *Cc:* terrapreta at bioenergylists.org ; James Thomas <jthomas at yakama.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2008 2:03 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] How to STOP using Fossil Carbon resources?!
>
> Well, you didn't really answer my question which was of a rather practical
> political nature but I'm not gonna nail you over it.
>
> What do you think of replacing the income tax with a carbon tax?
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
> wrote:
>
> >  Hi Lou,
> >
> > Well, the first thing to do is to TAX Carbon emissions and the sale of
> > refining of fossil carbon fuels.  We don't need a "Federal Tax Holiday" on
> > gasoline taxes in this country.  We need to raise the Federal Gas Tax
> > immediately and use all of the funds (way beyond a paltry $3 million) to
> > develop renewable energy sources.  We need to remove oil and coal subsides
> > and food-for-fuel subsidies and use these monies too to develop renewable
> > energy sources that do not use food-for-fuel and do not mine fossil carbon
> > from the ground.
> >
> > Then we need to keep raising the taxes on fossil carbon and the
> > production of fossil carbon products, fuels, fertilizers, petrochemical
> > plastics, etc.  We need not tax the shit out of everyone, but in America we
> > need to tax carbon heavily, as the only viable impetus to get people to
> > change.  Eventually we should make the USE, production, and sale of fossil
> > carbon ILLEGAL.  Fossil Carbon is a DIRTY WORD.  We MUST STOP burning fossil
> > carbon or sequester the CO2 emissions from all we burn.  Coal should ONLY be
> > used for chunks found in museums.
> >
> > We also have to remove CO2 from the atmosphere as fast as we can.  We
> > can't mess around with hymming and hahhhing about this anymore!
> > STOP using fossil carbon energy, find, make or build replacements for
> > the lost energy, conserve on the use of fossil carbon fuels down to
> > altogether nothing, and get CO2 out of the atmosphere NOW.
> >
> > We're on the path to planet wide destruction and massive worldwide
> > action and understanding of this problem is imperative.  The lives of
> > billions of people and untold billions of lives of living species of plants
> > and animals are at great risk if we can't find the way to do this.  I am on
> > the path to completely remove myself and my family from "the grid" while
> > still living in "the grid" and I hope to be able to show other people how to
> > do this.  I want a ZERO CARBON FOOTPRINT before I die.  I want a NEGATIVE
> > CARBON impact before I die.  I can vow to find another way!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > SKB
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* lou gold <lou.gold at gmail.com>
> > *To:* Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
> > *Cc:* terrapreta at bioenergylists.org ; James Thomas <jthomas at yakama.com>
> > *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2008 12:25 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] (tire pyrolysis)
> >
> > Hey Sean,
> >
> > I keep hearing you say "STOP the continued consumption of fossil carbon
> > resources." How? How in terms of practical politics? How will you stop
> > Peabody Coal? How will you stop China? I really hope and pray that you have
> > an answer because I'd love to see it happen.
> >
> > hugs,   lou
> >
> > On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 2:17 PM, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >  Hi James,
> > >
> > > Wow! That NIMBY thing just bites.  It squelches many unconventional
> > > and environmentally beneficial alternatives.  There is no wind farm off the
> > > coast on the eastern seaboard because of NIMBY (and its not even in their
> > > back yards).  There is a Senator from a state with little or no wind
> > > resource, who claims that the unsightly nature of wind turbines offends the
> > > aesthetic sensibilities and the livelihoods of too many people to be
> > > acceptable in any other state, even outside his district (where there will
> > > never be wind farms).  Tidal power has been stymied by people who want their
> > > ocean views undisturbed.
> > >
> > > I think NIMBY used to crush technological innovation with energy is
> > > self-serving, too conservative, and immoral in this day and age.
> > >
> > > Pyrolysis is the thermal decomposition of carbonaceous matter in an
> > > oxygen limited environment.  It has greatly reduced emissions versus
> > > complete combustion (burning), a great array of potentially useful products,
> > > and it is by definition much cleaner than burning (lower overall
> > > emissions).  Many of the products from pyrolysis can be used as direct
> > > replacements for what are now petrochemical products.  Waste management
> > > using pyrolysis can be much cleaner from an emissions standpoint than
> > > refining of petroleum into petro-chemcial products and fuels now is.
> > >
> > > Charcoal, which has a similar energy density to mineral coal, is made
> > > via pyrolysis of biomass (mostly from biomass with high content of lignin,
> > > cellulose, or hemi-cellulose), and if burned for its energy content would
> > > not emit the same high levels of mercury, cadmium, radioactive isotopes, or
> > > carcinogens and pyto-toxins as does the burning of fossil mineral coal.
> > > Burning charcoal made using pyrolysis would be way better than continuing to
> > > burn fossil coal, because the CO2 emissions from burning charcoal are
> > > "carbon neutral", whereas those from burning fossil coal will only continue
> > > to increase the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere (very "carbon positive").
> > >
> > > Making charcoal from wastes and biomass, then amending charcoal into
> > > soil, puts carbon directly out of the atmosphere and into the ground in near
> > > permanent, sequestered storage.  Pyrolysis of wastes and biomass coupled
> > > with "Terra Preta"-like formation of charcoal enhanced soils would be a very
> > > highly "CARBON NEGATIVE" practice.
> > >
> > > The world needs "CARBON NEGATIVE" practices now, more than ever.
> > >
> > > We MUST be ever vigilant, though, that pyrolysis of biomass into
> > > charcoal, to make "CARBON NEGATIVE" TP soils can never be used to justify
> > > (through emissions offsets) the continued use of fossil carbon fuels!  The
> > > world also desperately needs to STOP the continued consumption of fossil
> > > carbon resources and the consequent emissions of billions of tons of "CARBON
> > > POSITIVE" fossil sourced CO2.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > SKB
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > *From:* James Thomas <jthomas at yakama.com>
> > > *To:* terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> > > *Sent:* Monday, May 12, 2008 11:17 AM
> > > *Subject:* [Terrapreta] (tire pyrolysis)
> > >
> > > Re: the tire pyrolysis question:  A company headed by a New Zealand
> > > Environmental Scientist  is attempting to do this very thing locally
> > > here in Washington State; with  "Carbon Black" as a market product
> > > syngas used to fuel the process once it gets going good and hot
> > > (parasitic consumption) and the remainder used to generate electricity
> > >
> > > for the grid and the biooil for market. They were planning on sinking
> > > about $25 million into the process. Many people would be employed; air
> > >
> > > pollution control would be a key point; all kinds of good things
> > > environmentally were proposed. But in reality the NIMBY (Not in my
> > > backyard) mental paradigm squelched the proposal, at least
> > > temporarily.
> > >
> > > With regard to the steel in the steel belts it was proposed that  the
> > > tires would come in in bales, then chipped , then subjected  to
> > > pyrolysis and the steel chips collected after pyrolysis . I am not
> > > sure
> > > how the char and steel would be separated, but it appears not to be
> > > too
> > > much of an obstacle, I suspect that the char would simply crumble away
> > >
> > > from the metal chips. Bottom line is this is already being thought of
> > > as
> > > a way to reuse all of the waste tires in Washington State and
> > > entrepreneurial spirit is attempting to make it happen. But the NIMBY
> > > effect is limiting the potential.
> > >
> > > It has been suggested to put in this type of facility well away from
> > > populated areas, but my question is " if this is proposed, where would
> > >
> > > the employees live? Do you expect employees to live in an isolated
> > > community way out in the desert, just so they can have a job with no
> > > other life or other "benefits of civilization"? Sounds like the chorus
> > >
> > > in the old "Tennessee" Ernie Ford song about sixteen tons of coal per
> > > day being the miner's output:   "I owe my soul to the company store".
> > > Or
> > > do you expect them to commute or take a shuttle daily from a
> > > population
> > > center? Then where is the proposed environmental benefit of less
> > > overall
> > > fuel consumption?  Pyrolysis obviously needs a better public relations
> > >
> > > effort to be accepted by the public. People just don't have an
> > > understanding that pyrolysis of tires or medical waste or gasification
> > >
> > > or any of the other similar processes is not the same as "Burning
> > > Tires"
> > > . The burning tire image reinforced on the mental video screens by
> > > images of Palestinian youths burning tires in protest of political
> > > actions is permanently  embedded in the mental paradigm of most modern
> > >
> > > urbanites, in my opinion. "Pyrolysis" is just a big  fancy word for
> > > more
> > > pollution  in this mental paradigm.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> > > http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> > > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://lougold.blogspot.com
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
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>


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