[Terrapreta] [Gasification] FUELS AND VEHICLES: AN INTEGRATEDSOLUTION
Mary Lehmann
mlehmann3 at austin.rr.com
Thu May 22 02:19:58 CDT 2008
I use a bike mostly. I visited China when that was true of their
city dwellers too. After enough polluted air and traffic jams,
they'll go back to bikes, and they'll have company --eventually. ML
On May 21, 2008, at 3:07 PM, Roger Samson wrote:
>
> Yes mass urban transit is looking like a bit of a crappy (yes not very
> scientific word either) strategy to reduce energy ..quite scary
> http://www.debunkingportland.com/Transit/BusVsCarTEDB.htm
> In china they now have 10's of million of electric bicycles, that’s
> the best
> way to move people and reduce energy consumption
> electric bicycles are the most sustainable urban transport options
> after
> shanks pony (for all you youngsters that’s means walking)
>
> we need to gasify biomass for heat and power and then use electric
> bikes and
> small electric cars for a more sustainable transport option. Much
> better
> than liquid biofuels running conventional sized vehicles or big public
> transit buses
>
> Roger Samson
>
> W: www.reap-canada.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at listserv.repp.org] On Behalf Of Greg
> and April
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:17 PM
> To: Mary Lehmann
> Cc: terrapreta group; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] [Terrapreta] FUELS AND VEHICLES: AN
> INTEGRATEDSOLUTION
>
> Funny you should say that.
>
> One of the local news stations did a study to see if it would be
> possable to
> ditch the car and take the bus, and reported on it last night.
>
> Local price of fuel - $3.66 / gal
> Local price of a bus ticket ( one way ) - $1.50
>
> Going from the news station to the baseball stadium during evening
> rush hour
> cost $1.50, requires 2 transfers and 3 buses
>
> A reporter and a photojournalist decided to take to trip one using his
> vehicle the other the bus from the same starting point leaving at
> the same
> time.
>
> Time they both left the bus top near the station was 4:43 ( had the
> rider of
> the bus missed it, the next bus would not have been by until 5:54 ).
>
> The time the driver took in the POV arrived at the stadium was 30
> minutes,
> with the consumption of .64 gal of gas for a cost of $2.36 per person
>
> The time it took the rider on the bus was 1:05 for the cost of
> $1.50 ( what
> we don't know is the average number of people on the busses or what
> kind of
> mileage they get, but it can be logically assumed that they don't
> get but
> more than about 8-10 mpg )
>
> A difference of $0.86 and 40 minutes.
>
> At first glance this looks fairly good -
>
> OTOH assuming they both stayed and watch a ballgame, the driver of
> the car,
> would have made the return trip in about 20 minutes and a
> corresponding
> decrease in fuel consumption due to lack of traffic, and the rider
> of the
> bus would have had to either walk back or get a taxi, because the
> busses
> don't run that late. We also don't know how many miles per gal /
> per
> person the busses get, yet I know for a fact that on many routes
> they run
> almost empty except during the busiest times of day. - I also know
> that this
> is true of many types of mass transit in many cities across the US.
>
> Riders on the bus, that used the bus to get to and from work, told the
> photojournalist, that they have to leave home up to 1 hr earlier in
> the day
> to ensure that they get to work on time and about the same coming
> home in
> the evening - assuming they didn't miss the bus and that it was
> running on
> schedule.
>
> Locally it doesn't matter where you are going, it's going to take
> at least
> twice as long to take the bus as it is in a POV, and that's
> assuming that
> you caught the right one and that they are running on schedule.
>
> Last year there was a time when one of our vehicles was in the shop
> for
> work, and since I needed the only other one we had for the kids, my
> wife
> tried to take the bus. It worked out that she needed 2 hrs in
> the morning
> and 2 hrs in the evening to go and from work, which was only 15-20
> min away
> in a POV.
>
> Now if your time is worth $1 an hour ( or less ) - then the bus
> would make
> perfect sense, from a fuel, time and cost efficiency stand point.
>
> If your time is worth more than $1 / hr, the total efficiency is
> with the
> personal automobile.
>
>
> In the end, it all comes down to the fact that different places have
> different transportation systems and each has to be evaluated on
> it's own
> merits, and don't forget that while it varies with each bus, unless
> each bus
> is running proximity 1/2 full, then it is getting poorer mileage than
> someone driving an old pickup.
>
> The entire idea that mass transit is a cure all answer for all
> places and
> all individuals, is phony.
>
>
> Greg H.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mary Lehmann
> To: Benjamin Domingo Bof
> Cc: terrapreta group ; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
> gasification ;
> killer_ape-peak_oil at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:00
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] FUELS AND VEHICLES: AN INTEGRATED SOLUTION
>
>
> This effort is sad to see, however well intentioned it is,
> because in the
> first place the need to use less energy has been confused with energy
> efficiency. If my car gets extra miles to the gallon, what is to
> keep me
> from driving more miles? This is like that phoney drive to add
> wider, faster
> roads to shorten commuter time. People just moved farther out.
>
>
> In the second place, no account has been taken of the fact that
> there will
> not be the available energy to make the passenger cars, compared
> with the
> energy economy of mass transit vehicles. As the energy shortage
> gets worse
> (yes, before it gets better, if you like), manufacturers and
> finally the
> public will be unwilling to forego mass transit vehicles. We will
> be like
> the Easter Islanders opposing burning the last trees which should
> be saved
> for making boats in which to move away.
>
>
> Mary Lehmann
> ====================================================================
>
> On May 16, 2008, at 5:09 PM, Benjamin Domingo Bof wrote:
>
>
>
> Fuels and vehicles: an integrated solution
>
> The use of fossil fuels in transport creates enormous
> greenhouse
> gas emissions. In Canada, in fact, cars and trucks produce more
> than 30% of
> all GHG emissions. To make meaningful progress in reducing GHGs,
> we must
> address the transport sector. Individually, advanced new transport
> fuels
> and vehicle technologies contribute to GHG emission reductions.
> However,
> the most effective way to reduce CO2 in transport is through an
> approach
> which integrates both vehicles and fuels.
> To achieve this, both vehicles and fuel manufacturers are
> spending
> billions of dollars to develop and deliver cleaner, more efficient
> systems
> that use less gasoline. But typically, vehicle and fuel solutions are
> looked at in separate silos.
> Historical Agreement Made in 2006: Volkswagen, Shell and
> Iogen
> are Combining Fuel and Vehicle Technologies for an Integrated Solution
> On January 8, 2006, Volkswagen, Shell and Iogen signed a
> letter of
> intent to conduct a study into the economic feasibility of producing
> cellulose ethanol in Germany.
>
> Left to right: Rob Routs, Executive Director Downstream
> (Oil
> Products and Chemicals) Royal Dutch Shell; Brian Foody, President,
> Iogen
> Corporation; Dr. Bernd Pischetsrieder, Chairman of the Board of
> Management
> of Volkswagen AG.
> This marks the first time that an automotive manufacturer
> has
> partnered with an oil company and a technology company to explore the
> commercialization opportunity of clean transport fuel such as
> cellulose
> ethanol. Volkswagen, Shell and Iogen face a common challenge to
> deliver
> mobility to people through the cars they drive and the fuels they
> use, and
> to do it in a sustainable way. And the biggest challenge for
> sustainability
> is dealing with CO2 emissions. By working together, the three
> organizations
> are committed to meeting our sustainability challenges through an
> integrated
> approach that uses the most cost effective solutions first.
> Cellulose ethanol is one of the fuel options that:
> a.. reduces overall CO2 emissions from vehicles
> b.. runs in today's cars without any need for automobile
> modifications or changes to the fuel distribution system and
> c.. is economical in comparison with all alternatives
> including
> many vehicle technology solutions
> Running any of the many available flexible fuel vehicles on
> cellulose ethanol E85 is one of the most cost effective ways to
> reduce GHG
> emissions in transport. Currently, there are more than 4 million
> FFVs on
> the road in the United States. Even running today's regular
> vehicles on a
> blend of 10% cellulose ethanol will reduce GHGs by close to 10
> grams of CO2
> for every kilometre driven.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
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