[Terrapreta] why is carbon black?

[MFH]

Kurt

Thanks - good sense and you answered the question. Char absorbs or adsorbs,
but the "nasties" remain. For how long, and how are they released, opens
another debate.

The bottom line appears to be that (at least) char doesn't neutralise
"toxins". Whether or not 10 months or 10 years or 1000 years changes this is
another puzzle. What happens when some char with these added toxins is added
to active soil? Where indeed to the toxins go - into your tummy? 

Seems to me that in the headlong rush to major agri-business, the
bean-counters have dominated over the millenniums of farmer's knowledge. 

I'll be forever reminded of the clear evidence in the Whagi Valley in PNG
that formal agriculture existed 10,000 years ago, some 4000 (not 40 or 400)
years before the so-called beginning of Ag in the Mediterranean Circle. And,
many include Papua New Guineans amongst the groups of "primitive people"

Maybe, primitive is taking your kids to pre-school in a Humvee?

There has always been some char. Is there, for example, any evidence of char
in the Egyptian tombs, and if so, has there been any chem analysis? The
Amazonians can't have been the only ones to have understood.

Maybe this stuff should be under the Off-Post banner, but we're approaching
some crises issues. Many have forgotten or not understood yesterday's
lessons. Char can help for tomorrow, but not in isolation.

It's not a panacea for the ills we've loaded on our planet home. It has huge
potential to aid, but we all need to look at a broader canvas. Char and it's
benefits are one segment of the solutions.

I suspect that some of us would like to get off this pollutive bus and live
tomorrow in splendid isolation. But there isn't any real escape from what
"we" have wrought other than try and fix it. 

M




-----Original Message-----
From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
[mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Treutlein
Sent: Tuesday, 27 May 2008 8:54 PM
Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] why is carbon black?

MFH wrote:
>  Interesting.
>
>  Given the current propensity for litigation it's reasonable to assume
>  that the manufacturers of the Solo knapsacks can back this up.
>
>  Activated charcoal is used to absorb poisons in people, e.g. "
>  Activated charcoal is the treatment of choice to prevent absorption
>  of the poison. It is usually administered when the patient is in the
>  emergency room. However, charcoal is ineffective against metals, Na,
>  K, alcohols, glycols, acids, and alkalis." Its use is also widespread
>  amongst animal farmers.
>
>  Does it adsorb or absorb glyphosphate? And does it "neutralise" or
>  simply adsorb and then eliminate the poisons from the body during the
>  normal waste cycle?  I'd tend to think the latter.
>
>  Max H
>

Activated charcoal adsorbs the stuff. From our point of view, there is 
little difference between absorption and adsorption. Absorption is a 
process somewhat similar to a sponge soaking up water, while adsorption 
is similar to wetting a surface with it. Because activated charcoal has 
such a huge surface area it is capable of adsorbing large quantities of 
some materials.

Does it neutralize Roundup? No idea. Roundup is neutralised by 
clayparticles in soil, by a process that may be similar to adsorption 
followed by some chemical reaction, or at least, that is what we are 
told by the manufacturer.

We use activated charcoal in various ways to clean things up. In 
chemistry prac, many years ago they gave us a sample of a brownish  
xtaline material and some activated charcoal, we mixed them both with 
water, filtered the charcoal out of the mix, then evaporated the water 
from the solution and ended up with pure white xtals of the chemical. It 
is used in filter masks, for instance in spray painting, some gasmasks, 
my vacuum cleaner has such a filter to adsorb nasty odours you can put 
containers of it in your fridge for the same purpose and so on.

Once it is full of whatever, it is possible to evaporate the 
contaminants with heat, but mostly we chuck it out and get a new catridge.

So, yes activated charcoal will remove many toxins, but they are still 
in the charcoal and I would not like to bury *that* in my soil, to 
slowly bleed off the contaminants.

Charcoal will often do the same job as activated charcoal but less 
efficiently, so be careful what you expose you char too before burying 
it in the soil.

regards,

Kurt

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