[Terrapreta] a good story
Kevin Chisholm
kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Fri May 30 14:16:56 CDT 2008
Dear Lou
lou gold wrote:
> well, i only asked for people to let me know (specifically about my
> posts on- or off-forum) because i act only for myself. but surely i
> was not asking for an on-forum election, vote or poll. that seems to
> be what you are proposing and saying that i'm asking for it.
Your ask was as follows:
"I'm certainly open to a stop-and-desist request if folks think it's
appropriate. I would not take it personal. And I would most most
certainly comply."
That certainly looked like a request to the List to e-mail in an
objection if people did not want you to continue posting your very
interesting good stories. Many people do not like to take a negative
stand on issues. It is much easier for most people to vote positively,
in support of an issue, than it is to come out of lurk mode and vote
negatively against it.
> that would seem stupid to me.
The way you posed your ask was brilliant!
So... what do you think would be a reasonable percentage of "support
votes" for you to feel that the TP List Membership wanted you to
continue with your very interesting good stories?
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Kevin Chisholm
> <kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Lou
>
> You certainly are an excellent writer and story teller, as
> evidenced by your good work at http://lougold.blogspot.com . I
> would encourage all list Members to submit postings confirming
> that they do indeed want to see your very interesting good stories
> on the TP List, if that is the way they feel.
>
> Given that you have asked for the opinion and guidance of the List
> Members, what percentage of the List Membership should reply in
> the Affirmative, so that you would feel justified to continue
> submitting your very interesting good stories to the TP List?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> lou gold wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm certainly open to a stop-and-desist request if folks think
> it's appropriate. I would not take it personal. And I would
> most most certainly comply.
>
> But please do keep in mind that terra preta has its roots deep
> in Amazonia in all of its aspects and that's what I think I am
> writing about and why I perceive that all this seemingly
> "off-topic" stuff is in fact deeply and fundamentally
> interrelated.
>
> Just one person's view (mine), of course. I'll withdraw it
> without prejudice if asked. But perhaps yet another story is
> appropriate (from my personal history). I was raised in part
> by an aunt and uncle who were scientists -- she a botanist and
> he a nematologist. They, and the scientific method they
> represented, served as my main intellectual role models across
> my formative years. My uncle had a huge social conscience --
> he left a promising career as a concert pianist to devote his
> life to what was then called "the green revolution" and he
> focused on finding ways to help reduce the impact of nematodes
> on certain crops. He wanted to reduce hunger and suffering in
> the world. Before he died we shared many good talks. He sadly
> told me that he felt that he had wasted his life in
> agricultural research in the styles of the post WWII
> laboratories. He applauded my growing interest in ecology and
> he urged me to cast a wider net than he had. And, this is
> precisely what I hope I am doing and sharing on this forum.
>
> hugs and blessings,
>
> lou
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Kevin Chisholm
> <kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>> wrote:
>
> Dear Lou
>
> All of us signed up to the Terra Preta List because of an
> interest
> in Terra Preta. That is our common interest. Unless we have the
> mentality of a hockey puck, we all have other interests also.
>
> lou gold wrote:
>
> Hi Richard,
>
> Thanks for your concern. I very much agree that there were
> many abuses in the past. My purpose in my blog is not to
> advocate or solicit (indeed, that would be against the
> precepts of my religion which explicitly opposes
> 'proselytizing'). My purpose is to share information about
> very vital movements now occurring in Brazil and the world.
>
>
> May I respectfully remind you that, while it may be your
> purpose,
> this is not the purpose of the Terra Preta List. You write good
> stories, and the causes may be important, but on the TP
> List, they
> distract from discussions on Terra Preta. To the extent
> that your
> stories and causes distract from the core interest of the
> subscribers to the TP List, these very interesting and well
> meaning stories are spam. "... to share information..." is a
> politically correct term for advocating and soliciting.
>
>
> I also love a great story in the fashion of Wade Davis (who
> might be the Richard Evans Schultes student you
> recall). Check
> out the Davis books at Amazon or his TED talk. Personally,
> think that his book ONE RIVER is the single best book ever
> written on Amazonia.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search>
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search>>
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search>
>
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search
> <http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&tag=mozilla-20&index=blended&link_code=qs&field-keywords=wade%20davis&sourceid=Mozilla-search>>>
>
>
> I am sure it is a good book for people who are interested
> in that
> sort of thing. However, people who are interested in that
> sort of
> thing are probably subscribed to relevant lists. I would doubt
> that anyone subscribed to the TP list with a view to getting
> recommendations on good books about the drug culture.
>
> With regard to ayahuasca, it's pretty well established fact
> that -- being it's challenging purgative qualities --
> it has
> little "recreational potential." You can find lots of
> up-to-date solid science about it at:
> http://www.ayahuasca.com/
>
>
> Given that you now have a very nice Blog catering to the
> Brazilian
> Culture, would it not be more appropriate to "share
> information"
> about this site on your Blog, rather on the TP List, where the
> core interest is in trying to understand TP and its
> potential for
> use elsewhere?
>
>
> BTW, ayahuasca use in a religious context is fully legal in
> Brazil (even for small children with parental
> approval). The
> public commission set up to study it concluded that the
> religious use promoted the highest values of the
> society. It's
> simply not a "party-drug".
>
>
> I am sure that is interesting for people interested in that
> sort
> of thing. However, to be rather blunt, I am interested in
> understanding Terra Preta, with a view of determining how it
> works, and if it is sensible to apply some variation of it
> elsewhere.
>
> I personally will appreciate anything you can tell me, and
> the TP
> List, that will help increase our understanding of Terra Preta.
>
> I personally feel that anything else posted to the TP List is
> spam, regardless of how interesting it may be.
>
> Did you know that I was the largest Sugar Beet Grower in Nova
> Scotia last year? Did you know that last year I was the second
> largest grower of Artemisia Annua Anamed in all of Canada, the
> second largest Country in the entire world? I think this is
> enormously interesting, but I wouldn't elaborate further on
> the TP
> List, because it would be rather spammy, wouldn't you say?
>
> How would you suggest we proceed to increase the "Signal to
> Noise
> Ratio" of the Terra Preta List?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>
> hugs and blessings,
>
> lou
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 11:59 AM, Richard Haard
> <richrd at nas.com <mailto:richrd at nas.com>
> <mailto:richrd at nas.com <mailto:richrd at nas.com>>
> <mailto:richrd at nas.com <mailto:richrd at nas.com>
>
> <mailto:richrd at nas.com <mailto:richrd at nas.com>>>> wrote:
>
> Lou
> The story sounds like a book I once read about
> similar divinatory materials - The visionary vine -
> This is a
> story about the hallucinatory plant of the genus
> Banisteriopsis .
> I read the book about 40 years ago and could not
> find the
> title on
> Amazon.com. But this book 'the rough guide to Brazil 6'
> mentions
> Banisteriopsis and how the cult has spread to
> fashionable
> areas of
> Sao Paulo and Rio de Janiero where intellectuals
> participate in
> visionary ceremonies.
>
> I researched these materials during the late 1960's
> , a period
> when I was researching and testing myself for my own
> book
> which I
> wrote and published in 1970, /*Poisonous and
> Hallucinogenic
> Mushrooms*/. Another person who at the time was a Ph.D
> student of
> famous Harvard professor Dr Richard Schultes also
> told me many
> stories of the era and his travels in Brazil and Peru.
> These were
> heady times so to speak but to put this information
> to the
> general
> public is *taboo *as this is how psychedelia was
> introduced
> to the
> general public by Dr Tim Leary and others. Now in 2008
> there are
> no reasons to believe the optimism of the era that these
> hallucinogens in general use can have personal and
> society wide
> benefits.
> What happened was a transfer to intoxication like in
> booze,
> rather
> than divination. Ie 'getting stoned' You know the
> rest of the
> story. Most people have no comprehension there is
> any other
> state
> of mind than intoxication. There is nothing
> different in the
> activity of the alkaloid in Banisteriopsis than LSD,
> Psilocybin or
> Dimethyl tryptomine (DMT). Please be careful with
> this and keep
> this information to your inner circle because it only
> encourages
> abuse.
> I can only guide you to the abundant literature on the
> physiology
> of this class of materials. I can tell you from
> experience
> that 6
> species of Psilocbe and Stropharia have subtile
> differences in
> effect even though it is 30 years since I imbibed.
> My advice that I wrote in my book is to give
> yourself a limited
> lifetime budget for the use of this and these
> materials. I
> compared using hallucinogens to befriending a
> wolverine . Such
> soft, beautiful fur and yet faster than you can perceive
> she will
> run her teeth up your arm. There are many people who
> have never
> recovered from an unguided trip during the 1960's,
> no different
> than a Viet Nam veteran still dealing with the
> demons of his
> experiences.
>
> This is why as a shamanistic ritual the seer is the
> user or
> who guides the 'group' through the ritual.
> Be careful
>
> Rich Haard
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2008, at 5:16 AM, lou gold wrote:
>
> Sometimes the desire to share something
> overwhelms on-topic
> etiquette
>
> One rarely gets an opportunity to share
> something very
> special.
> Such is the case with the amazing story of the
> evolution of the
> Santo Daime in Brazil. Jose Murilo and I feel
> privileged to
> present the English translation of...
> The Daime, Caetano Veloso & Gilberto Gil A...
>
> <http://lougold.blogspot.com/2008/05/daime-caetano-veloso-gilberto-gil.html>
>
>
>
> There's less good news from another part of Amazonia
> but we are
> getting the story out into the world:
> VIOLENCE! It's
> incredibly interesting to see how...
>
> <http://lougold.blogspot.com/2008/05/violence-its-incredibly-interesting-to_28.html>
>
> hugs and blessings,
>
> lou
>
>
>
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