[Terrapreta] char in soil test

Sean K. Barry sean.barry at juno.com
Tue Apr 17 23:16:10 CDT 2007

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Hi John,

My point about different fertilization in the pots in one experimental set is that it then is also made a variable in the experiment. When observing result from an experiment with more than one variable, there is no real valid way to separate whether and effect is related to one or the other, charcoal or cow manure, for instance. You certainly can test JF BioCarbon in soil versus just plain charcoal as an experiment, but what you are testing there is the effect of cow manure or not, assuming char density is the same.

When an experiment is devised, pose a hypothesis about the effect of a single parameter (say, charcoal density), then develop an experiment to try different densities of charcoal (including 0%, i.e. the control set), leaving all other parameters the same. Then run the experiment (or experiment(s); like Exp #1) tomatoes in pure soil, with 10% char/soil mix, 20% char soil mix, Exp #2) same soil treatments with carrots, Exp #3) with radishes, etc). You need to make sure that you only vary ONE parameter in any one set, so that the observed effect of the variance in that parameter can clearly be attributed with a positive effect or deficit.

If you want to test JF Biocarbon vs charcoal, then make that a separate experimental set. But, you cannot compare results of plant growth in any member pot from that set with plant growth from any pot in another experimental set. I hope I stated this clearly enough. If you have questions still, write me or call me.

SKB
----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Flottvik<mailto:jovick at shaw.ca>
To: Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net> ; Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

Ron & Sean

1) I can keep a log of measured water and watering times not a problem.

2) I went ahead and measured and thourogly mixed the char into our "on site soil".

Sean. Some of the pots are soil and charcoal mix only. The % of char waries and pots are marked as such. Some of the pots have my JF BioCarbon & soil. The BioCarbon is a mix of softwood charcoal and dry cow manure. The reason for this test is to see if there will be a difference between my product and soil & charcoal and soil only. I think I now have all the basis covered and if my product works exceptional well its not to stack the deck, its to see if I have a good sellable product.
That said, I very much appreciate all the input.

John

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: John G. Flottvik<mailto:jovick at shaw.ca> ; Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

John:
You said:
1. Ron; I will carefully measure the water across the board.
RWL1: My thought was that it would be easier for you, easier to explain to others, and more representative of rain-fed systems if all pots got the same amount of water. This probably precludes a small water-release from each pot - and I was hoping for something like a statement that you applied 100 ml (example) every xx days (or on the xx1, xx2, xx3, ...... days). I'd hate to see this water application requirement be real onerous for you or anyone.

and

2. Also, should I mix the 5, 10, & 20 % char into the soil or just root it around the top half of the pot.
RWL2: For ease for you and others, and to make the mixing uniform, I'd go for mixing throughout the whole pot (which I envision as being 10-15 cm tall?). To make sure we are all talking the same language, the amount of charcoal added to get 20% is 25% (.2/(1-.2) = .25)? If this gets to you too late, and you have (as one example) added 20%, I think that is fine - but we will probably want to call that a 16.7% charcoal component (.2/1.2 = .1667).

Again, thanks.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Flottvik<mailto:jovick at shaw.ca>
To: Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net> ; Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

Hi Ron.

I have 12 pots left so I will mosey out and follow the suggestions/instructions given.
I am sticking to vegetables for this test and my reason for that is that we, and developing countries need to eat more than looking at big pretty flowers. I have planted radishes (suggestion from Kevin) carrots, green onions, tomatoes, spegetti squash and corn.

Ron; I will carefully measure the water across the board.
Also, should I mix the 5, 10, & 20 % char into the soil or just root it around the top half of the pot.

Any other suggestions welcome.

Regards
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>
To: John G. Flottvik<mailto:jovick at shaw.ca> ; Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

John: If you have a few more pots still available, I'd like to hear how roughly 5, 10, and 20% char (alone, by weight) added to the old garden soil work out. Sean has asked for equal fertilization afterwards - so maybe I can double my order and ask for 3 without any extra fertilization. I am trying here to get closer to what might happen to those unaware of your products.

As a slight modification to Sean's recommendation on watering - how about measuring carefully the amount of water going to pot #1 - and then duplicating that on all the ohers?

Thanks for doing these tests.

Ron

----- Original Message -----
From: John G. Flottvik<mailto:jovick at shaw.ca>
To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

Morning Sean.

Thanks for all the advice which I will follow. Regarding the "fertilize" comment, some of the pots have char/cow mix (JF BioCarbon) in them which I belive will act as a natural organic fertilizer. In any case I have 6 different combinations of soils and if list members have other combinations in mind I will be happy to add some more pots. This will have to be done today though.

John

----- Original Message -----

From: Sean K. Barry <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>

To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; John G. Flottvik <mailto:jovick at shaw.ca>

Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:54 PM

Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

Hi John,

Thanks for outlining your plan for us. It looks like a pretty good plan. I like that you are using two controls (100% Lite Way and 100% garden soil). Hopefully you will fertilize some and provide the exact same dose to everything. Also keep these pots and soil for another test next season.

Make sure the pots have a hole in the bottom of them. Proper watering is to water them just until water starts to drip out the bottom, then stop. This way the soil will not get too wet and potentially leach any nutrients out the bottom. You may not apply the same volume of water when you water them all the same way (this might change depending on which plant and how much water it uses). Just pour in room temp water gently until water starts to drip out the bottom. The soil in each pot will contain about them same moisture content that way (and there is neither under-watering or over-watering).

Good luck and take lots of pictures.

Regards,

Sean K. Barry

Principal Engineer/Owner

Troposphere Energy, LLC

11170 142nd St. N.

Stillwater, MN 55082

(651) 351-0711 (Home/Fax)

(651) 285-0904 (Cell)

sean.barry at juno.com <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>

----- Original Message -----

From: John G. Flottvik <mailto:jovick at shaw.ca>

To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>

Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 2:03 PM

Subject: [Terrapreta] char in soil test

Tom & list.

Starting my Charcoal in soil test today the 16th day of April 2007 using JF BioCarbon soil enhancement product.

I will have 6 numbered pots 1 to 6. I will have six sets of 6 pots so I can plant six different samples.

Pot #1- Bought topsoil which contains, black earth; Sphagnum peat moss; Limestone. Brand name Lite Way.

Pot# 2- 50 % Lite Way & 50 % powder softwood charcoal

Pot # 3- 50 % Lite Way & 50 % JF BioCarbon soil enhancement

Pot # 4- 75 % Lite Way & 25 % JF BioCarbon

Pot # 5- 100 % real dirt from an old garden

Pot # 6- 50 % real garden dirt % 50 % JF BioEnergy product.

I will plant some vegetables, corn and plants to try for a wide array of results. I will also cover with clear plastic to keep unwanted rain water from drowning the project. Will hand water all pots equal.

Progress photos and comments will be shared with our list members. Please note that I am not a soil scientist, or a Gardner but will do the best I can and keep an accurate record of my experiment. To end, pots 5 & 6 will be of most interest as real dirt is used.

Regards

John Flottvik

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