[Terrapreta] Niels Bech's flash pyrolysis
Robert Klein
arclein at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 13 15:13:12 EDT 2007
Hi Sean
I am not been fair. I have been developing the ideas
primarily on my blog;
http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com
But to answer your questions a little more briefly.
A friend of mine was heavily involved in solving the
incineration problem facing a major hospital and
recognized that a shipping container could be used to
efficiently incinerate municipal waste provided you
used a smaller add on chamber that jumped the flue
gases from 600 degrees immediately to 2000 degrees. We
agreed that this configuration combined with cycling
the very hot gases back into the primary chamber could
be used to safely process at a set temperature any
uniform biomass.
This set up will allow tight temperature control for
the farmer and that means maximum yield. Of course,
it is easy to also fill with bio waste.
I do not know if the process can be successfully
modified to split of an oil fraction from pyrolysis.
I suspect higher temperatures would be needed as well
as some odd equipment. It may simply not be
worthwhile when the highest and best use of the system
is to produce biochar.
Going from that starting point to understanding how
the Indians produced Biochar is a simple two step
process. The Indians had to use dirt, and had to
tight pack the Biowaste.
Chopping up wood is a non starter and was very
difficult even with a steel axe. It is not an option.
That left field waste that could be pulled. Yet the
only source of field waste with volume large enough to
do the job on the scale exhibited in the Amazon is
corn.
At that point personal knowledge informed me that the
root ball of corn forms a flat disc like brick which
is ideal for forming the outer wall of a beehive like
stack that would be allow only a small inflow of air.
This is actually perfect for our needs.
And the whole process would require a minimal level of
increased effort by the farm family who was already
committed to pulling the stalks in preparation for the
next crop.
The next step is to talk someone into setting up a
beehive stack in a corn field to see what the net
efficiency is like.
The incinerator cum biochar technology is drawn from
well known principles and equipment. Our real
modification is getting it down to the farm in a way
that may be highly economic and practical.
--- "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com> wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> You say,
>
> "However, stuffing it into a shipping container and
> making 400 degree bio char is very viable. It is
> also
> possible that the oil can be also salvaged in this
> sort of setup if the heat is increased and the gases
> perhaps separated."
>
> Have you got anything beyond conjecture?
>
> Last month you were talking up that clearly we all
> should know and/or learn from you that the Ancient
> Amazonian people MUST have been making Terra Preta
> out of corn stover. You never once pointed to any
> other source or persons that held this view. Your
> arguments were only repeated and not expanded to
> include the views of any one else or solid evidence
> of any sort. Now, you have talked before about
> "stuffing" biomass into shipping containers and
> making charcoal. You bring this up again like its
> obvious, simpler, and more efficient, and viable
> than any other mechanism for pyrolyzing biomass.
> You make it sound like the whole world has missed
> out on what you state as a fact. But, have you
> actually made this work? Have you ever seen
> charcoal made in a shipping container?
>
> I do like your open minded approached to discussing
> new ideas or new approaches to do things or explain
> how things might have been done. However, without
> evidence?, or without practical experience?, it is
> all just talk, isn't it? You don't need to state it
> like it's a fact that your "ideas" clearly are
> better than the known working science. If you do
> have anything, other than more of only your own
> words to bolster your positions, then put this on a
> posting. Show us the pictures? Show us the
> results? Show us ANYTHING and it might help others
> get behind your proposals. We could continue to
> discuss things until the cows come home. But, it
> will not advance our cause. The scientific methods
> requires experiment and observation (it's how
> actual, verifiable evidence is developed), along
> with hypothisizing.
>
> Does this make any sense to you at all? Or, are you
> just going to get offended and continue to treat the
> rest of us like we're just dumber than you?
>
> SKB
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert Klein<mailto:arclein at yahoo.com>
> To: Douglas Clayton<mailto:dnclayton at wildblue.net>
>
> Cc: terra
> preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Niels Bech's flash
> pyrolysis
>
>
> I dug up the abstract and I see that the idea is
> to
> flash pyrolyse in the field by grinding the straw
> as
> feed and harvesting the oil from the pyrolysis
> process.
>
> That means that a one ton bale of straw will be
> fed
> into one end and produced oil and waste will come
> out
> the other end. I think that this is a difficult
> trick
> to practically pull off. Straw is hard(high
> silica)and will be hard on any machinery.
>
> However, stuffing it into a shipping container and
> making 400 degree bio char is very viable. It is
> also
> possible that the oil can be also salvaged in this
> sort of setup if the heat is increased and the
> gases
> perhaps separated.
>
> Sometimes we try to be tooo efficient.
>
> regards
>
> arclein
>
> --- Douglas Clayton
>
<dnclayton at wildblue.net<mailto:dnclayton at wildblue.net>>
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry that link didn't work as intended. The
> google
> > search does bring
> > it right up.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Aug 12, 2007, at 11:17 AM, Douglas Clayton
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > A friend just suggested I google Niels Bech
> flash
> > pyrolysis. I
> > > suggest you all do the same. I have not been
> able
> > to keep up with
> > > posts to the tp list but do not believe Niels
> Bech
> > has been mentioned:
> > >
> > >
>
http://www.chec.kt.dtu.dk/Research/<http://www.chec.kt.dtu.dk/Research/>
> > >
> >
>
>
Experimental%20Facilities%20within%20CHEC/Flash%20Pyrolysis.aspx
> > >
> > > I'm just back from the 33rd annual Natural
> Organic
> > Farmers Association
> > > Conference where I presented a workshop on
> > "biomass charcoaling
> > > possibilities". Amazingly few have even heard
> of
> > the Terra preta, let
> > > alone pyrolysis. Most will remain oblivious
> for a
> > while longer as I
> > > didn't even attract half a percent of
> attendees!
> > >
> > > Doug Clayton
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > Douglas Clayton
> > 50 Bullard Rd
> > Jaffrey, NH 03452
> > work: 603-532-1120
> > home: 603-532-7321
> > fax: 603-532-4581
> >
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