[Terrapreta] agri-char market price VERSUS LCA + SWOT + carbonization technology performance

Sun Aug 26 23:39:19 EDT 2007

Dear   ADRIANA, 

YES, I fully agree with you, this is an complex issue to set up an modern
carbonization plant which meets all the US and EU very complex environmental
and industrial norms as of today and near future to come, and at the same
time produces cheap char at very low price levels such as mentioned earlier.

An advanced LCA and SWOT strengths-weakness-threats-opportunities analysis,
- with proper environmental risk  assessment analysis - is also an very
complex issue, but if it is made certainly demonstrating the SWOT
performance of the applied technology.

Very few carbonization technologies qualifying for all this in Europe, in
the USA and in Asia. 

I do not believe that any "home made" or "simple field installations" or 
cheap char construction" qualifying to get operational permit from the 10
standard authorities, at least certainly not in the European Union. 

Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
Terra Humana Clean Technology Engineering Ltd. 
(ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certified organization for scientific research,
technical development and industrial performance engineering design of
agro-biotechnological and pyrolysis methods, apparatus and applications) 

ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus
WEB:   www.terrenum.net 

-------Original Message-------

From: Adriana Downie
Date: 2007.08.27. 5:23:02
To: 'Sean K. Barry'
Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] agri-char market price.

Sean,

This is not at all a straight forward question. Economics need to be done in
combination with an LCA (life cycle assessment) to ensure the comparison is
fair and that we are actually do more good than harm. If I wasn’t an
engineer with professional responsibilities to meet workplace health and
safety and EPA regulation then I could make Agrichar, as they do in the
third world, cheaply. However this comes at a cost. When you do the LCA on
these traditional methods, factors like particulate emissions and greenhouse
gas emissions mean that you are probably doing more harm to society and the
environment than you could justify with any benefit achieved through
creating Terra preta. Of course with modern day engineering we can manage
the environmental impacts but this requires an industrial type processing
plant and therefore scale to make the economics work. 

Regards,
Adriana Downie
Best Energies.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean K. Barry [mailto:sean.barry at juno.com] 
Sent: Monday, 27 August 2007 12:53 PM
To: Sean K. Barry
Cc: terrapreta
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] agri-char market price.

Hi Brian,

Your proposition that charcoal amendments to soil @$200/ton return that
investment in a year is very interesting.  It seems like a thing worth
measuring.  I don't know that anyone has tried to calculate the ROI of
making "Terra Preta".  It is an obvious valid question for anyone in the
business venture of producing agricultural use charcoal from biomass.

What do you think about how one could go about measuring this?

SKB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Sean K. Barry 
To: bhans at earthmimic.com 
Cc: terrapreta 
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] agri-char market price.

Hi Brian,

I'm sorry.  I saw that was probably a typo ($ vs 4) 0 also, but after I
typed my last message.  Still, how it adds $200/per ton worth of value to
the soil in a single year seems high.  Especially, considering application
rates of 5-10 tons per acre.  So again, where do you get that $ value added
number after paying $200/ton to buy the stuff, let alone distribute it?

SKB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: bhans at earthmimic.com 
To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org 
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] agri-char market price.

Oops...obviously that typo 4 shoulda been a $ :)

And I ment at $200/ton, the land owner comes out pretty decent. Once TP
catches on...$200/t will be the 'good ol days'.

Brian

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Sean K. Barry sean.barry at juno.com
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:28:03 -0500
To: bhans at earthmimic.com, terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] agri-char market price.

Hello Brian Hans,

Welcome to Terra Preta.  Yes, that $200/ton price has been mentioned
before.  Where did you get that phenomenal ROI of 1 year, even at
$4200/ton?!  I live near Stillwater, Minnesota and I will be producing
biochar.  Call or write me if you are interested.

Regards,

Sean K. Barry
Principal Engineer/Owner
Troposphere Energy, LLC
11170 142nd St. N.
Stillwater, MN 55082
(651) 351-0711 (Home/Fax)
(651) 285-0904 (Cell)
sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: bhans at earthmimic.com<mailto:bhans at earthmimic.com> 
  To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] agri-char market price.

  Group,

  I am curious as to the market price for agri-char. I have read ~ $200/t
and
  am looking for some confirmation. 

  Seems like a steal for the benefits and that ROI is about 1 year with
  4200/t pricing. 

  Also...is there anyone near NE Wisconsin that is producing agri-char? I
  would like to talk.

  Brian Hans

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