[Terrapreta] Methane and pottery

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Robert,

The Stratosphere is up, the Troposphere is down.  Look at the numbers on the charts I just sent you.  Surface CO2 levels are at ~380 ppm, now, having grown from only ~335 in 25 years, and only ~250 ppm since the industrial revolution began.  Surface Methane-CH4 levels are at ~1.75 ppm, grown from ~1.61 in 25 years.

Okay, prepare for the simple math again ...

The concentration of CO2 is 380 ppm, which is > 1.8 ppm, the concentration of CH4, like 380/1.8 =  211 times bigger!

380 - 335 = 45, 45/380 = 0.118, ~11.8% growth in CO2 emissions in 25 years

1750 - 1610 = 140, 140/1750 = 0.08, 8% growth in CH4 emissions in 25 years.

Something "living", down at the surface, where plants and people and animals live, is putting out more CO2, than they did 25 years ago.  These "living" things are increasing the output of CO2 faster (@ ~11.8% every 25 years), than they are increasing the amount of CH4.  They are still increasing the output of CH4 (@ ~8% per 25 years), also.

Picking up any trends here, Bob?

Maybe we should go hunting down this possible part of the "living" systems on Earth and tell them or make them stop outputting increasing amounts of CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphere.  Who could they be?  What/who are these "living" pigs, that are putting so much more of their CO2 and CH4 wastes into our atmosphere?  That's where the problem lies doesn't it.  It's ALIVE!


SKB

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Klein<mailto:arclein at yahoo.com> 
  To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
  Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 3:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Methane and pottery


  Hi Sean

  Methane has the wonderful habit of rising up to the
  troposphere and I am not convinced at all that we can
  even begin to threaten change there.

  Every square foot of soil if producing methane daily
  and this all must escape upward.

  I do not know if our biology produces as much methane
  as CO2, but my guess right now is that the magnitudes
  are the same.  There is no natural absorber except the
  troposphere, unlike for CO2.

  The troposphere is a pretty big sponge and can even
  grow in all likelihood.

  I fully agree that if methane could hang around in the
  lower atmosphere, that we would be inconvenienced. It
  is our great fortune that it does not.

  regrds

  bob



   "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>> wrote:

  > Hi Robert,
  > 
  > "In the end concerns over methane production are
  > irrelevant."
  > 
  > Please, ... Don't be posting that on your blog,
  > about our Terra Preta discussions.  That is not what
  > I heard or said about Methane production in this
  > discussion.  You can't dismiss it as irrelevant, if
  > you present no evidence (as we have) to the
  > contrary.
  > 
  > SKB
  > 
  > 
  >   ----- Original Message ----- 
  >   From: Robert Klein<mailto:arclein at yahoo.com<mailto:arclein at yahoo.com>> 
  >   To: terra
  > preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>> 
  >   Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:09 PM
  >   Subject: [Terrapreta] Methane and pottery
  > 
  > 
  >   I posted this on my Blog.  Go there for my ongoing
  >   discussion on Terra Preta
  > 
  >  
  >
  http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com<http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/<http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com%3chttp//globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/>>
  > 
  >   In the end concerns over methane production are
  >   irrelevant. We have doubled production in the last
  >   century and it is all gone. The reason is
  > ultimately
  >   very simple. It migrates to the upper atmosphere
  > and
  >   is consumed. This is something that is not an
  > option
  >   for CO2.
  > 
  >   Does the sharp increase in methane reaching the
  >   troposphere have any effect whatsoever? The quick
  >   answer is nothing that is obvious. It is a little
  > like
  >   measuring the effect of the Mississippi on the
  >   Atlantic. The practical answer as always is to
  > make as
  >   much as you desire and see were it takes you. My
  > guess
  >   is nowhere.
  > 
  >   That means that methane production concerns
  > regarding
  >   all forms of biowaste combustion are misplaced. My
  >   real concern would be for well intentioned
  > government
  >   regulation been actively imposed forcing a larger
  >   industrial price for the use of the method.
  > 
  >   The second issue that has attracted comment is the
  >   association of pottery shards in the terra preta
  >   soils. I naturally postulated that this was partly
  > to
  >   do with the disposal of kitchen waste in the corn
  >   stover stack kilns as we described in earlier
  > postings
  >   in July. I also realized that a large bowl would
  > have
  >   to be used to transport hot coals to the top of
  > the
  >   stack and perhaps dumped into a prepared chimney.
  > 
  >   These bowls are as primitive as you can get and
  > very
  >   prone to heat breakage, so the presence of pottery
  > is
  >   no surprise. My discomfort came from the fact that
  >   they would have normally taken broken pottery away
  >   with them for disposal elsewhere. So why not?
  > 
  >   The answer came to me this morning. It is natural
  > to
  >   take the bowl of coals to the top of the stack and
  > to
  >   dump them there in the center and to let the coals
  >   slowly burn out a chimney. The problem is that you
  >   have to cover these coals with dirt to prevent
  > flame
  >   out. The best way to do that is to upend the bowl
  > on
  >   top of the coals and to throw dirt on top of that.
  >   Otherwise, the coals will end up been smothered by
  > the
  >   dirt. The bowl would then migrate slowly to the
  > bottom
  >   of the stack. In the process the high heat would
  > cause
  >   this low quality pottery to breakup into very
  > small
  >   pieces not worth recovering or causing any
  > difficulty
  >   for cultivation.
  > 
  >   Actually a pretty nifty solution to the problem of
  >   controlling the ignition coal mass. While this was
  >   progressing, the farmer would stand by to throw
  > dirt
  >   on any emerging openings in the stack to prevent a
  >   flare up.
  > 
  > 
  >          
  >  
  >
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