[Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Lou, Gerrit,

I think it might be worth noting that pyroysis of biomass to produce charcoal will yield charcoal as a BYPRODUCT, along with a large amount of heat and some combustible fuel gases (H2 and CO) in the exhaust gas stream from the reaction.  It is possible to harvest both a useful amount of charcoal (for use as a soil amendment) and directly usable energy (heat and fuel gases).  The value of the immediately harvested energy from the reaction could pay for the process and leave the charcoal byproduct as a nearly free (or very low cost) byproduct.

The technical methods for achieving this requires careful control over the process air/oxygen input and temperature, insulation or refractory elements to prevent significant heat loss to the environment, and efficient and immediate use of both the reaction heat and the fuel gases to generate usable, saleable energy.  Raising these efficiencies will increase the yield of charcoal.  Even with lower efficiency processes, increasing the feedstock input rate can increase the yield of charcoal.  These are energy and yield efficiency considerations.

As for economic efficiency, I think two things are paramount.  First, the best use biomass would be a residual without any other economic value as food or feedstock for another process (or at least available at a very low cost per ton, <$10-20/ton).  Second, transportation costs should be at the very minimum (across a field at most).  The best here would be to harvest the biomass from the same acreage that the charcoal amendment would be put onto.

Regards,

SKB


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: lou gold<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com> 
  To: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
  Cc: Terrapreta preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta]C02 Tree Capture - or miscanthus...


  Gerrit,

  You know that ecosystem. Do you see any chance of building in some kind of production of char -- perhaps subsidized by carbon credits -- for local soil amendment? Might it be possible to build a mixed product into the system -- with a 10-20% subsidized sequestration tithe back into the earth? I'm pulling the numbers out of thin air just to communicate the concept. Could be a mix built into any crop system, including trees headed for ethanol. 

  What do you think?

  lou


  On Dec 5, 2007 8:21 PM, Gerald Van Koeverden <vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>> wrote:

    Lou, 


    Here in Canada, it seems that researchers have practically given up on trees like poplar and willow for fuel (7-10 tons odm/acre) for our temperate climate;  switchgrass hasn't caught on either.  At present, the local buzz is about cold-tolerant varieties of miscanthus - 15 tons odm/acre.  Either for directly heating vegetable greenhouses or for the 'imminent'(?)  cellulose-to-ethanol route...  Miscnathus stands can apparently produce for 30 years after one planting with virtually no fertilization. 


    Of course, this wouldn't produce charcoal, unless one is using pyrolysis as the treatment process.  But even then, would first, the quality of char produced be good enough for long-term soil amendment? and secondly, the char would probably be sold for an industrial application anyways to maximize returns from investment... 


    The only advantage of planting miscanthus for energy, would be its carbon-neutral status...


    Gerrit


    On 5-Dec-07, at 8:39 AM, lou gold wrote:


      Oooops, I missed the "wood for charcoal question". This one is complex and there is no way I can do it justice. Here are just a few considerations...

      1. Again, it is most paramount that primary forests are not cut for this purpose. 

      2. Here in Brazil, eucalyptus is grown for charcoal on a huge scale. It even fuels the iron foundries. This is what you do when there is no cheap coal available. I am told told that there are better and worse ways to do it. Cutting primary forests for the first round of charcoal and replacing them with eucalyptus plantations is a bad way. Vast eucalyptus monocultures are a bad way. Placing eucalyptus stands as one of several crops in a diversified farming operation is a good way. 

      3. I'm very uneasy about the new ethanol from cellulose approach with genetically modified trees but I'm not qualified to have a real intelligent judgment here.

      4, I would vastly prefer to see wood wastes go into producing char for the soil instead of for fuel or co-generation. 

      OK, that's a start -- barely scratches the surface I'm sure. 

      hugs,   lou




      On Dec 5, 2007 11:14 AM, lou gold < lou.gold at gmail.com <mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com>> wrote:

        Hmmm. Did ya watch the video? It clearly states that soil and water are the main limiting factors. Therefore, if you want to have plants and trees pulling CO2 out of the atmosphere, you better work on soil fertility and its ability to retain water. Perfect tasks for TP. 

        I don't consider myself as a spokesperson for the tree-huggers. Actually, across the past year, Terra Preta maybe transforming my awareness and ideology more toward conscious farming. The main inspiration of TP for me is that the El Dorado story says that once there was a civilization of high density populations living in harmony with nature and  forests. This is very contrary to the history of western civilization which advanced via deforestation. Indeed, it is so different that it might constitute a vitally necessary paradigm shift and carry us from the issues of scarcity into the joys of abundance. I don't know that this is true. I suspect it might be. I want to find out. 

        I believe strongly that we need to stop logging any more intact primary forests. A complete halt is unlikely. All steps of avoided or reduced deforestation need to be rewarded. Carbon credits are a good way.

        As far as as intelligent forest management is concerned, I recommend that you check out the Menominee Tribal Forest which has won many awards and recognitions. http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html <http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>

        hugs,

        lou 



        On Dec 5, 2007 10:12 AM, Kevin Chisholm < kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net> > wrote:

          Dear David and Lou

          Most of us on the Terra Preta List have an "environmentally responsible 
          leaning", a sense of beauty, and an appreciation of the good things a
          tree can do. However, what I see is that extremism seldom works in an 
          optimal manner. Mother Nature is smart, and she seems to favor
          diversity. It is absolutely impossible for Man to exist on this Earth
          without interacting with Mother Nature. Either we get Divorced and one
          of us leaves, or we find ways that we can live on Earth in a sustainable 
          basis. Otherwise, one of us will die, and the other will be seriously
          injured.

          As Representatives of our "Resident Tree Huggers", what would you and
          David recommend as tree cutting guidelines  acceptable to the Tree Huggers? 

          Under what conditions would the Tree Hugging Community agree to using
          wood as a source of carbon for Terra Preta?

          Kevin


          lou gold wrote:
          > Good Morning to All, 
          >
          > Another good one from ABC.
          > http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm<http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm>
          >
          > I draw the lesson that if one wants trees and other plants to capture 
          > carbon it's best to work on renewing the soil.
          >
          > hugs,   lou
          >
          >

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